Oh... no.

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29488

[Charley]

Now this brings up an interesting dilemma.

[Taylor Millard]

I take it Julian is Itala?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yes. I'd forgetten Zuvall (sp) was his g/f. I'll admit I'm annoyed he just didnt shut up and just take a new account and prove his actions first. I know he could get banned again like Gue, but after so long, there's not much chance he would have been caught, esp with different serive providers and what have you. Then, after behaving himself for a while, then admit to it and ask forgiveness. I'd personally be "okay, fine. Keep behaving". Just using someone elses acount like that is pretty poor form.

Julian can be okay OOC. At the most, IMO, allow him to post OOC only. But, that's not my call and I'm glad it aint.

One thing I will point out was that he was banned only at SW-Fans, before group boards came on-board this server. (no, wait, he was banned at GJO as Itala, but was allowed as other names). So, technically, this I believe is a group thing to discuss, only because of that. Others that have been globally banned have been as a result of a vote in here. He hasnt, tho I'm sure he would have gotten the global boning if the groups were here.

Although if Ogre / Shawn / Eve said he's still gone with no further discussion, I'm not going to kick a stink. what I point out is technicality only.

[Alana Stormcloud]

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29472


Thought maybe you should see this to:/ If not then just delete :p

[Morgan Evanar]

=[ Zantia is cool. This sucks.

[Pierce Tondry]

*GAWKS.*

How long has it been since Julian last showed his face? Like, a couple of years or something? Is it possible he's changed?

Well... you could always give him a trial. And if he steps out of line again, the ban button is always handy.

I personally don't think that Zatania's nicknames should be affected unless Julian begins causing trouble through them. But the moment he does...

*Hefts bat.*

Edit: I see Shawn has put down a ruling on Julian's fate, so n/m. :)

[Shawn]

Not quite a ruling. I PMed him and told him that it would be discussed. However, I wanted to make it clear that we don't reverse bannings, per se.

He was banned before SWFans was moved to it's own server, for reference.

[Gav Mortis]

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the ban being temporarily lifted, on a trial period I guess but this decision really is down to the administration to make. One point I think I need to make is that I perceive SWFans as a very personal, close-knit community and that it's not one in which the staff are distant and cold; they're very much a part of the community. On that note I think that it would be nice to see a trial period, everyone changes and the community changes, it being a personal community, I think a bit of forgiveness after all this time would be a nice thing to see.

[Morgan Evanar]

Why? We either have the oppertunity to add another roleplayer to the community, assuming he's changed.

Or we have before us the same fudgeboat with a different mask on, who will cause nothing but trouble for everyone else.

His forgiveness posts scream DRRRAAAAMMMMAAAA! of the 'nth degree. If he wanted back on he could have just quietly regged and account and started RPing again.

[Pierce Tondry]

Since when did Julian ever do anything quietly? :lol

If he'd just made the one post asking for forgiveness, I'd find him easier to believe. The one Alana pointed out makes me think he hasn't changed very much. Still, being open and aboveboard has its advantages because- let's face it- given his history, if Julian regged another account and did behave but was revealed, it would still cause a temporary outcry. Better to be up front in this case, I think. Makes any reactions more clear cut.

So much to think about.

hmmmmmm

[Morgan Evanar]

There isn't anything to think about. We can all forgive him, but he earned himself a wack of the kiloton banhammer. You don't recover from the kiloton banhammer.

[Pierce Tondry]

I dunno about that, Morg. I'd say it depends on the circumstances of his ban and return, both of which seem to lean towards a big fat negatory on letting him be unbanned. Plus, I wanted an excuse to say "hmmmmm" in that post. :)

But as far as the kiloton banhammer recovery goes, that's up to someone who isn't me. Presumably, it's being discussed elsewhere as we speak, so I shall leave the matter be.

[Figrin D'an]

His initial apology post made me momentarily consider his status...

His second one though, the one that Alana pointed out... makes me retract nearly all of that consideration.

While this isn't necessarily relevent to this board, it's important to know, IMO... about a year ago, CC.Net decided to host Itala's little group after a bunch of them got banned from EzBoard. They allowed him back onto the board after having "permanently banned" him. Within two months, he was up to his same old garbage, and they were forced to ban him again.

Kindness and forgiveness are wonderful things... but eventually it crosses a line and becomes naivety. I always give people a second chance... sometimes even a third chance if I feel they're worthy of it under the circumstances. Itala has had a dozen chances over the time I've been posting at the various incarnations of this board. He's screwed up everytime. I see little evidence that this time would be any different.



I personally don't think that Zatania's nicknames should be affected unless Julian begins causing trouble through them.

I agree completely.

[imported_Eve]

I say no.

[Gav Mortis]

At the end of the day, if he was given another chance, I mean it has been God knows how long since he's been a part of this place, and started acting up, all it takes is: "You haven't changed one jot, bye now." That and a quick banning.

Edit: Oh! Just saw that other post, missed it before. Hmmm.

[Lady Vader]

I... can't rule on this.

Half of me says "yes", as what Marcus said about Itala being fine OOCis true... but the other half says "no" cause of his past track record.

I did, however, like Gav's suggestion of a trial basis thingy...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

o_O bizarreness...

[TheHolo.Net]

In just two posts, he is already playing up a whole heap of forum drama, with undoubtedly more to come should he be allowed to stay.

I say no, stay banned.

[Navaria Tarkin]

I am leaning towards the no... it's just the way he is going about doing this that makes me say it. Just my opinion ...

And of course, leave Duvall out of it. she did nothing wrong :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

:rolleyes @ kiloton banhammer

But seriously, I agree with the "You haven't changed one jot, bye now." ideas. I say give him a trial period, and then decide. People can change, I know it doesn't happen often, but it can happen. Give him a chance, even if it's just a little one.

What's wrong with being honest about upholding your decision and not re-registering? I see it as an honest effort to show you that he is willing to play by the rules. Anything's possible.

I think some people take this a bit too seriously, not to say that what e did or what anyone does to get banned (because I know you don't just toss the banhammer around lightly) is ok, but remember that this is a game, and is for fun, and it's not like we're jeopardizing state secrets or anything... even if he does turn out to be a fungus, what have you really lost except patience? :)

And I agree with not doing anythign to Zatania. Nothing done on her part.

As a final comment, a lot of you say that he is being a drama queen, which is true to a point, but I urge you all to be diplomatic and remember that there are people in our own groups that act exactly in the same attention-getting ways that haven't been banned. I say that drama isn't a sole factor in keeping him banned... I will refreain from naming names but you all know the type I am talking about, the type that allways drags personal life and drama into the boards and, because they are still good RPers, they stay.

Just look at this judiciously is all I'm saying. If he turns out to be a douche, by all means gift him with the almighty smackdown of l33tness. :D

[Lady Vader]

Wow... after reading that, I'm leaning more towards the "give him a chance" scenario.

[Marcus Telcontar]

But Itala has been banned more consistently after apologising than any other person I know of. It's not the Drama Queen thing that will keep him banned - it's the fact that over a long course of time he has consistently and totally flaunted rules, insulted, and been a distruptive influence on any number of boards.

I think that's what people should realise, especially those who have not been around for a while.


While this isn't necessarily relevent to this board, it's important to know, IMO... about a year ago, CC.Net decided to host Itala's little group after a bunch of them got banned from EzBoard. They allowed him back onto the board after having "permanently banned" him. Within two months, he was up to his same old garbage, and they were forced to ban him again.

Kindness and forgiveness are wonderful things... but eventually it crosses a line and becomes naivety. I always give people a second chance... sometimes even a third chance if I feel they're worthy of it under the circumstances. Itala has had a dozen chances over the time I've been posting at the various incarnations of this board. He's screwed up everytime. I see little evidence that this time would be any different.



That doesnt sound like a changed person. That is why I was annoyed he did as he did last night - you can say all you want, but the proof is in the doing, not the saying.

Which is why, if he quietly snuck back and was a good netcitizen for several months and proved he can behave, I personally would be more willing to support a OOC allow back. Without proof of change.... who says he wont do the same?

The only reason this discussion should exist is, as I said, he was not globally banned, because we were not here. But, repeating myself, I dont doubt the ban would have been global anyway and I'm not going to argue if the ban stays.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was already leaning towards the trial period. But I hadn't read the second post by Julian...and it makes me a little more wary.

[TheHolo.Net]

We are talking about someone who was globally banned from ezboard and who not all that long ago was given a "chance" as is being put here by CCNet and he lost that chance within two months. I don't think any chance needs be given myself.

If we are nice in this situation, I feel we will get walked all over. This could very well turn out to be a "The nice guy finishes last" situation.

I get nothing but bad feelings about this.

And if we do allow him to return, does that not set a precedent to the others who were banned from these forums? Should we allow those who invaded the privacy of others and did despicable things, back to be given another chance to screw some of us over again?

[SAURRON]

I get nothing but bad feelings about this.


As am I. It appears in that other thread that he feels he is in already. That bothers me. Like he knows he will get another shot at all this. If he gets back in I think it better be strict, no I was just kidding thats my sense of humor excuses.

[Ryla Relvinian]

This could very well turn out to be a "The nice guy finishes last" situation.

I don't mean to be disrespectful or flighty, but what have we got, personally and collectively, to lose? Give him a... week, two weeks, a month if you like, and then have all the more reason to uphold a permanent ban. I see it as a win-win situation. If he really has changed, we get another RPer, and if he is a dingleberry, we get solid, justifiable ban-itude.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I dont see why we should give him a chance. If he was even semi sentient, he would have known that he could have sneaked back on and proven himself without anyone knowing. I dont think people really have a good idea how hard it is to stop someone detirmined to post, ie you cant. People who have a clue about how the Internet works know this.

People who realised they made mistakes shut up and get on with it and prove they have changed. I could cite examples from GJO, which I have tradionally used to help hide people to do that very same thing. You have well known and respected Jedi that have screwed up elsewhere, getting new id's and a start again, to prove they could be different.

But it was done quietly. I have never seen someone posting like he did that turned out that was worth crap.

You could say allowing him back is the chance to prove he's changed. I say in return that if he had any clue, he would already be out to prove it right now, without the drama queen stuff and without our knowing. And you know what? If he did do it quietly, in say 6 months admitted it, the situation would be different. He would have proven he could change. Right now, he hs not, but he has the opportunity to do so if he has a clue how.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
I don't mean to be disrespectful or flighty, but what have we got, personally and collectively, to lose? Give him a... week, two weeks, a month if you like, and then have all the more reason to uphold a permanent ban. I see it as a win-win situation. If he really has changed, we get another RPer, and if he is a dingleberry, we get solid, justifiable ban-itude.


No offense, but we've had a solid justifiable ban-itude regarding him for the past 3 years. This isn't the first time he's posted an apology, attempting to get back into everyone's good graces. If there is one thing at which Itala/Julian is quite adept, it is social engineering. He knows how to manipulate people to get what he wants. In my opinion, he's doing the same thing right now. There is still a smugness to everything he says, because he's confident that he can pull a fast one and be allowed to start posting here again.


How many chances is he going to be given? And, if he is unbanned, then whom else will come out of the woodwork, petitioning to be unbanned because they're "deeply sorry" and have "matured since being banned?"


I've watched him pull this same stunt before, and have it work. The ultimate result was not pleasent. Do we really want to put ourselves, and everyone else that posts here, through another bout of his antics?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
I've watched him pull this same stunt before, and have it work. The ultimate result was not pleasent. Do we really want to put ourselves, and everyone else that posts here, through another bout of his antics? My sentiment exactly.

I feel allowing him to return for a "chance" is more likely to lose us some of our other community members then be us gaining another in him. And does anyone else remember how horrible his RPing was? I would prefer not to put the staff and myself through the rigors of god mode cries his IC posts would bring upon us in droves.

[Marcus Telcontar]

And does anyone else remember how horrible his RPing was?

My eyes explode with pain at the thought. I'd rather have Jamel's Martial Artist Fisting.

[Navaria Tarkin]

>_< at marcus

ew

anyway, the reason I say no now is the fact that he didn't email the mods/admins and purposefully used the name of his girlfriend doesn't sit right with me. Plus, the second post. He was banned for a good reason and he continued to post with a name that isn't his ... blah.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

After reading what everyone has said:

Keep him banned.

[imported_Eve]

I was going to say that Nav - and you're the only one who brought that up. Respectfully, he should have e-mailed a staff member instead of taking an account to post here. By even doing that he is violating his ban and potentially risking his gf's presence here.

I don't call that changed.

If there was ever a worse case of what you SHOULDN'T do here, it's Itala Marzullo.

I can't believe people are even considering it.

[Pierce Tondry]

Ryla: The name Itala Marzullo was spoken with distaste before I joined SWFans. On Ezboard, no less. He left in infamy, and will stay that way.

The Admins have considered everything said, and all three of them have voted "NO!" The situation seems clear cut to me. Thank Itala for playing and show him the door.

[Charley]

He was banned by SWfans before, and seeing as we don't "forgive" permabans, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for him to be unbanned. Thats why they call it a permaban. He easily deserved it, as well as being shot in the face and/or eaten alive by ants. Zatania could even go as far as to do the board a favor and keep her asshat of a boyfriend away from her computer when she's logged in, but that's just my personal suggestion.

[Lord Soth]

Yup,...Amen

[Ryla Relvinian]

I know, I understand, and I remember very little of what went on (I was new at the time). Most of it, I missed, but anyone dumb enough to get banned usually doesn't change. It seems like he did some very wrong things and enjoyed messing with people on top of that, which I agree is totally messed up.

I'm not bringing these points up because I think he's a golden boy with no capacity for wrong, and I don't totally believe that him sneaking on to make an account would be seen as any less dastardly than what he did. I'm just trying to get all the sides of the story out here, and make sure that we don't rush to conclusions.

Of course, I will fully support upholding the banning... seeing as I'm not totally sure that he was posting with her permission in the first place. I'm just saying that anyone who at leasts makes and effort in an apology should be given a chance, but with severe constraints, i.e. a one strike you're out policy or something.

Personally, though, I find it strange that someone would be so intent on coming back here... did he just run out of people and groups to mess with or what?

[Charley]

That would be my guess, yes.

[DarthHERA]

I am all for fairness and second chances, but I do feel Itala had many of those in the past prior to this.

He has other places to RP - as he actually states in the secondary thread - so its not like he cant ever rp and enjoy a community. Just not this one.

I also am suspicious of apologies for a reason. By that I mean, apologise because you are sorry...not because you want to play again.

He might truly be sorry. I like to believe he is. But in my books, an honest apology doesnt request something in return.

[Gav Mortis]

That's very true, I don't think for a second that he would've made that apology had he not wanted to come back here. My sentiments on this really are of a "What have we got to lose?" nature.

[Pierce Tondry]

Dru: Board sanity. :-p

[Shawn]

I'm all for second chances, but I don't believe that we should set a precedent of allowing banned members to return.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Itala's already had his second, third, fourth, fifth chance......

[Charley]

Originally posted by Shawn
I'm all for second chances, but I don't believe that we should set a precedent of allowing banned members to return.

Quoted for black & white truth of the matter.

[Gav Mortis]

Okay, that's fair enough. In retrospect, I can't be bothered with having him around here anyway. But that's neither here nor there, I just was thinking: What will it effect? Board policy, or rather it's stability, is clearly the answer.

As he been told to bugger off yet?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

He was told that a while ago I think. :mneh

For this "forgiveness" thread, i don't think he's been told he'll be able to come back, so yes, he's still banned. :p

[AmazonBabe]

I've thought and thought and thought about this... and all it's given me is a big migraine and no solid answer. I still don't think I can vote on this and I have conflicting feelings on the whole thing. I agree with both sides of the coin.

Blah. Frusterating to be me.

(On a side note, somehow I have this morbid curiousity to see if he really has changed.)

[Silus Xilarian]

The way im looking at it. We've already seen how worked up people get over simple godmoding. Ive been here one year, and Ive seen some huge arguements over these things. Im trying to judge this from the outside looking in, looking at what everyone else is having to say, since I wasnt here when Itala was banned.

If the boards can be sent into an upheaval over something as trivial as godmoding in a lightsaber duel, imagine the kind of trouble Itala could stir up. Im all for being fair and giving ppl the benefit of the doubt, but this just seems like a HUGE complication waiting to happen.

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

Im torn on this.

I remember Itala and his antics all too well from TalkCity. Like Marcus said, Julian can be 'ok' in an ooc conversation but all too often he becomes the type of person you put on ignore/block.

Id like to believe that hes changed - and for the better. Its possible he has. However, knowing what it was like in the past, Im hesitant to say 'give him another chance'.

Nav is right about the e-mail. Julian could have sent one to an Admin and kept it quiet while it was discussed/decided. The fact that he brought it up in front of everyone does not score points with me.

Though still undecided, Im leaning towards the Admin's position :\

[Silus Xilarian]

Were I in his situation, and wanted to redeem myself, I would have done it like this...

First, I would have emailed an admin with an apology, and afterward mention that I was interested in rejoining, but if said admin couldnt allow that, I would respect their decision.

After all, Ive just come to grips with the fact that what I did was wrong, and im willing to accept the consequences.

If admin told me that I would not be allowed back, I would ask that my apology be forwarded to the whole of SWfans. And I would respectively walk away.

That seems like the "grown up" thing to do, to me at least.


To me, it looked as if his apology was meant to generate sympathy to use so that the staff would be pressured into letting him back. There are a lot of new people on the board who werent around to see the stuff he pulled, some probably dont even know what happened. This group would be much easier to convince than those of you who had to actually put up with him.

If he truly has changed, then we have his apology, and in the position Im in, i'd be willing to forgive him, from one man to another. However, he's already committed the crime, and hes serving his punishment, I for one, am not willing to risk letting him back in, where he would be in a position to stir up trouble again.

If he's truly changed, then that means hes bettered himself as a person. Thats enough reward in itself.

[Pierce Tondry]

Well put, Silus, and that's exactly what I was thinking.

The decision seems more or less reached. SWFans will remain an "Itala free" zone.

[Ryla Relvinian]

First, I would have emailed an admin with an apology, and afterward mention that I was interested in rejoining, but if said admin couldnt allow that, I would respect their decision.

I agree. In fact, that's exactly what I told Jamel when he kept IMing me to tell you all to let him back.

Curiously, I haven't heard one admin/mod say they got an apology from him. Hmm. ;)