The Matrix Reloaded: Review Thread [Archive]

HunterJodoKast

May 12th, 2003, 01:57:57 PM

I feel this is going to be a slick well put together film. Plenty of eyecandy. Personally I have grown very fond of this franchise. I love the tech jargon and the movie's overall premise. It's superior to fellow genre pieces concerning futuristic man vs machine ventures such as the Terminator. It is a solid sci-fi story. I have almost come to depend on this franchise much like the X-Men. Especially after realizing Lucas and Peter Jackson have sold out.

A small OT rant ... my main complaint with those two is Lucas continues to fill his prequels with drabbest dullest grey characters around. He departed from his winning formula including charismatic scene-enhancing characters, ominous shadowy villians, and thrilling swashbuckling action that everyone has come to identify with the beloved SW saga. The prequels could have been so much more dramatic. And Anakin has been a very disappointing character. He could have been so much more engrossing (including his introduction) with a different personality altogether. Obi-Wan is probably the best character in the series thus far but even Ewan seems to be diminished and fails to stand out. The quality of these films has dropped remarkably.

And Jackson continues to content himself with rewriting the LOTR saga with disasterous results. Ents being tricked by hobbits into finding that the forests they intimately commune with is being depleted by Saruman. Right?!

And Faramir being nearly as weak as his brother. And the unnecessary scene in which he takes Frodo and Sam to Minas Tirith while it's being besieged. This never happened in the books. And not only that but Frodo nearly losing the ring to the Nazgul which never took place in the book. But to top it off Faramir witnessed everything that happened to between Frodo and this Nazgul yet he has a change of heart about apprehending Frodo. Right?!

Figrin D'an

May 12th, 2003, 02:26:48 PM

I'd hardly call what Jackson has done with the LOTR trilogy "selling out." He's taken some risks with what he has changed from Tolkien's text, and while I don't completely agree with some of the changes (particularly in TTT), I still give him credit for not being afraid to "adapt" the story. Overall, he's done a great job with the films so far... much, much better than I expected when I first heard about the project in the late '90's.

Dutchy

May 12th, 2003, 02:56:16 PM

In Holland it opens on the very first freakin day! :)

Nathanial K'cansce

May 12th, 2003, 04:06:08 PM

Originally posted by Jinn Fizz
and this is one of those movies where what the critics say doesn't mean diddly-squat.

That's how I go into all movies. I think most all critics are smoking something, even if their opinion on a film is the same as mine. Can't trust 'em as far as I can throw 'em.

And I have the same exact thoughts on this as Charley. I honestly don't see the need for these sequals. The ending of the first Matrix was satisfying enough, with Neo finally believing and basically becoming a God.

What's left, except new tech moves/new SFX's, and some new bad guys? I dunno.... I *might* have the chance to go see this Wednesday night at 10 (I'll need me a reserved ticket), but my expectaions are very low.

sirdizzy

May 12th, 2003, 07:34:06 PM

i didn't see the orginal matrix tell it was like 3 weeks in the theatres i was on an episode 1 kick but everyone was like ya have to go see this movie it is so badass

but i am not going to the mindight showing of reloaded either because hahahahahaha they are doing a 10pm showing wednesday 2 hours before you suckas hahahahaha

Marcus Telcontar

May 12th, 2003, 07:44:15 PM

disasterous results???? Did you see the same TTT that I did?

JediBoricua

May 12th, 2003, 08:48:39 PM

I don't know what that guy is smoking, but let's not turn this into another TTT thread!!! Please!

Let's just keep slamming the Matrix :D

Jesse Custer

May 13th, 2003, 12:37:08 AM

Well, you might say there isn't a need for sequels, but the directors did plan one from the beginning. I heard that they always wanted to do a comic book movie. So they created a new one. Except, they needed an origin. So, if I remember what I heard correctly, these two films are the movies they wanted to make. But they had to do the original first, to set them up. So this isn't just a money making thing, they set out to do this from the start.

Lann Kirauc

May 13th, 2003, 01:04:46 AM

Don't get me wrong, TTT was a great film but I feel Jackson is selling out Tolkien and the fans of this piece of literature. In fact, I wonder what drove him to make these unnecessary changes. But FOTR is as perfect of a film as any. TTT remains good yet tragically flawed however FOTR remains more passionate with detail and faithfulness. I hope ROTK continues in the stead of FOTR.

Back to the Matrix, I nearly got spoiled by the new issue of Time. Fortunately, I slammed the mag shut before it wasted the bigger surprises. Huge spoiler>>> But hey the movie is going to introduce new characters and constructs that possibly move independantly from the Matrix. Whom may or may not be aligned with Neo. Friggen magazine almost blew it for me. Anyways I am not going to bother to read anybodys else's spoilers. I don't need to know anymore. ;)

I used to look down on the original but just bought the DVD last week. And watched it last night. I found nothing amiss at all about the Matrix. Solid acting, absorbing premise, intelligent dialogue, and state-of-the-art action. Carrie-Ann Moss is too hot, Hugo Weaving is too bad, and Keanu is strangely untypical. Hopefully Reloaded will not prove to be an anemic sequel. But I am hyped nonetheless. Cheers!

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 04:37:29 AM

Im not linking, because they have some major spoilers. But two of the AICN reviewers (As in, the ones that work for AICN, not the ones you cant trust :)) think it was a major dissapointment. Not a bad film, some great moments, but a major dissapointment. And that is from two Matrix geeks.

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 05:34:28 AM

Is this a joke or not?

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

Either way, I'm finding it funny.

For those debating if it's worth the click or not: 50 reasons why you should boycott the Matrix: Reloaded. I've been told that there's a pretty large spoiler in that, although I'm not sure what it is, so... consider yourself warned.

Marcus Telcontar

May 13th, 2003, 06:08:33 AM

Jesus, dont click that link. There is one very formidible and TRUE spoiler in it. DONT CLICK FOR LOVE OF WHAT YOU DO!!!!! It's the only spolier I know is true and it's frelling huge

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 06:10:12 AM

Well, that aside: If you read the link, it's quite preposterous. And I quote:
The Matrix Murders

The first film killed 13 students at Columbine High School, the disturbed trench-coated teens imitating the pipe-bombing, shotgunning film's finale. How many troubled teens are out there Reloading with the release of the sequel?

In fact, the only reason the U.S. Attorney General did not press murder charges against the filmmakers is because the movie was shot in Australia, giving it diplomatic immunity.

The aborted American dream

Warner Bros. devoted $300 million to the production of the two Matrix sequels.

In the time the films have been in production, over one thousand American children will have died of starvation. For the cost of these films, each of those children could have been given one million dollars.

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 06:14:47 AM

Gurney, that's the link that was spoken about earlier.

Marcus Telcontar

May 13th, 2003, 06:15:23 AM

That pointlesswasteoftime also did the very funny 50 reasons not to see LOTR. He's being funny and takign the pee out of people who would think that

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 06:16:56 AM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Gurney, that's the link that was spoken about earlier. Sorry, I didn't read the thread for fear of getting spoilers myself. ;) I was going to start a new thread, but I thought it would go better in here.

And yeah, I thought it was a joke. I found several parts really funny.

Marcus Telcontar

May 13th, 2003, 06:18:13 AM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Gurney, that's the link that was spoken about earlier.

Unfortunantly, he actually has a real spoiler in it. I dont exactly know how, or when, or what happens after, but it is true. It is the only thing I've found out and I wished I didnt :x

Lann Kirauc

May 13th, 2003, 06:26:02 AM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Im not linking, because they have some major spoilers. But two of the AICN reviewers (As in, the ones that work for AICN, not the ones you cant trust :)) think it was a major dissapointment. Not a bad film, some great moments, but a major dissapointment. And that is from two Matrix geeks.

Now that's shocking, I mean that last statement. Despite their views, I haven't felt this positive about a movie since, well TTT. This franchise is the present rage for me. Plus I gets to see mo' Moss in tight black leather! >D

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 06:51:46 AM

You get that in pictures, and you see far more in other films. Jeez, research people! ;)

Jinn Fizz

May 13th, 2003, 07:07:00 AM

Originally posted by Gurney Devries
Is this a joke or not?

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

Either way, I'm finding it funny.

For those debating if it's worth the click or not: 50 reasons why you should boycott the Matrix: Reloaded. I've been told that there's a pretty large spoiler in that, although I'm not sure what it is, so... consider yourself warned.

That's it, that's it!!!! That's the one I was talking about! :headbash:

Oh man, and one of the spoilers was true??? I saw two of them, so huge that they made me wanna cry since I'd managed to remain so unspoiled up until now...argh, don't tell me which one, if either was true...I'll find out for myself this weekend. :\

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 08:20:50 AM

Here's something very interesting that someone pointed out about the first movie to me. It could potentially be a spoiler, but I don't think so.

Ok, so Cypher was working the late shift aboard the ship and all by himself when he decided to sneak into the Matrix and have a chat with one of the agents, correct? So how, exactly, did he get into the Matrix? Need someone to insert you once you've been hooked up. And moreover, you need a person on the outside to pull you out - he couldn't have done it by himself. Which would mean that there was another traitor helping him.

Or it could just be a plot hole. :p

And I had actually read Jinn's post earlier, but I'd forgotten about it since I didn't know what she was talking about, at the time.

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 08:26:44 AM

Maybe he said "Tank, could you plug me in? I wish to do something COMPLETELY innocent, like go to dinner" ;)

The trailers are really showing incosistencies to me though. We all know Neo can fly, right? So why fight all the Agent Smiths? Couldn't he just fly away? Or, fly to gain the advantage?

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 08:37:58 AM

And I'm sure Tank, sitting there in front of the monitor, didn't notice anything wrong with him having dinner with an agent. ;) Besides, I doubt they would sent in people for completely useless stuff like eating virtual food.

Well, when it showed Neo "taking off" in the trailer, it looks like it took him a few seconds and a bit of effort. Plus, it didn't look like he had the control to fly around and fight - looks like he just shoots off in a straight line.

It's probably like how the Hulk "flies" - he just makes huge jumps from place to place. It would be bending the rules, rather than flatout breaking them.

Edit ~ I just read some very interesting spoilers. They were taken from Time magazine, so I'd assume they're true. It's nothing major - mostly just background information on what happened before the creation of the Matrix. The Oracle is a program within the Matrix, possibly rogue. The Architect is the being that built the Matrix, could be either a machine or a human. You've heard of the Keymaker, I assume? Well the purpose of the Keymaker is to allow Neo to meet the Architect. Also, the prophecy and the whole "One" thing is apparently engineered by the Oracle, who is the Mother of the Matrix, and Neo is in fact the Sixth "One". This is also, then, the 6th Zion revolt.

Edit #2 ~ The first spoiler in that link you read, Jinn, is FALSE. I just watched a teaser trailer for Revolutions and Trinity is featured rather prominently in it. Which means she's very much alive.

There was one scene which looked incredibly cheesy, even to me. And I'm pretty much a fan of the movies. Neo and Smith, standing about 10 yards apart in the rain. They're surrounded on all sides by Agent Smith clones, watching. They run forward at breakneck speed, simultaneously punch each other and go fly backwards.

And it looks worse than it sounds. :\ I guess I'll still go see it, to get the whole story and whatnot, but... I'm not holding very high expectations.

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 12:52:08 PM

So cheesy! I wish I could watch the teaser now! :D

Dasquian Belargic

May 13th, 2003, 12:54:43 PM

Originally posted by Gurney Devries
Edit #2 ~ The first spoiler in that link you read, Jinn, is FALSE. I just watched a teaser trailer for Revolutions and Trinity is featured rather prominently in it. Which means she's very much alive.

Not like we wouldn't have seen that coming a mile off :mneh

Gurney Devries

May 13th, 2003, 12:58:22 PM

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
Not like we wouldn't have seen that coming a mile off :mneh Marcus stated that he had heard the same spoiler and was very much convinced that it was true.

Words can't adequately describe how cheesy that scene I just mentioned was. I guess it was supposed to show how strong each of them are, but they both flew back like rubber balls hit with a mack truck. It didn't look real at all.

sirdizzy

May 13th, 2003, 03:59:22 PM

no spoilers just humor

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030513.gif

http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20030512.gif

ReaperFett

May 13th, 2003, 04:05:39 PM

Can I just disagree here with Gurney. There is a FAR cheesier scene IMO :D

Droo

May 13th, 2003, 04:48:24 PM

You know, I don't whether or not it's been the particularly negative response this film is recieving, probably that combined with my doubts about the plot quality but now I am no longer hyped about the damn film. This I precieve as a good thing. I know it will be an orgy of the senses; audio and visual aspects of the film are bound to be top-notch, so yay! But aside from those guarantees I don't have any expectations anymore. I'm also spoiler free and as such I am determined I am going to enjoy this film, a lot at that regardless of what happens.

Figrin D'an

May 13th, 2003, 06:38:38 PM

I've also read something important that people seeing the film may wish to know... don't worry, it's not a spoiler.

Be sure to stay all the way through the ending credits, because immediately following them, the first full trailer for the third film, Revolutions, will be shown. (This according to a few reviews I have read).

Sanis Prent

May 13th, 2003, 09:22:25 PM

Wow, if what you're saying is true, Gurney...this will be crappier than even my low expectations suggest. I don't know whether to :lol or :cry

JediBoricua

May 13th, 2003, 09:45:38 PM

Well the movie got ahead on RT, way ahead, at 77% now.

It seems there is light at the end of the tunnel, just one more week for me.

Sage Hazzard

May 13th, 2003, 11:41:32 PM

Gurney, I want to hug you right now man. I hope you're right and Marcus' is wrong... god to I hope that. Only major spoiler I heard and I was utterly crushed by it, as I'm trying to go in fresh.

Figrin D'an

May 14th, 2003, 12:03:28 AM

I bought tickets for a Thursday evening show earlier today. I considered waiting for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon show, but since I didn't have plans for Thursday evening, I figured I'd go for it, and save my weekend for other things.

ReaperFett

May 14th, 2003, 10:59:00 AM

I dont think this was intentional, but this made me laugh when I heard it on the radio, talking about the Cannes film festival:

Matrix Reloaded will be there, all the stars will be there, Keanu will be there...
:lol

Helios

May 14th, 2003, 02:14:20 PM

Got tickets to see the movie tonight at 10:30 CST I'm looking forward to it. However I will not join in the Keanu bashing, I for one like alot of his work. He did an excellent job playing the bad guy in the Watcher, I liked him in A Walk in the Clouds, one of my personal favorites, and I thought he did excellent in The Matrix, he gets the "Whoa" comment about his acting throughout the film, but think to yourself, you just found out your living in a computer program and your god, I think you'd be a bit dazed and confused throughout the next few days too.

ReaperFett

May 14th, 2003, 02:32:46 PM

Yes, but Id say it with a convinving tone ;)

Figrin D'an

May 14th, 2003, 04:47:00 PM

Originally posted by Helios
Got tickets to see the movie tonight at 10:30 CST I'm looking forward to it. However I will not join in the Keanu bashing, I for one like alot of his work. He did an excellent job playing the bad guy in the Watcher, I liked him in A Walk in the Clouds, one of my personal favorites, and I thought he did excellent in The Matrix, he gets the "Whoa" comment about his acting throughout the film, but think to yourself, you just found out your living in a computer program and your god, I think you'd be a bit dazed and confused throughout the next few days too.

His weakness is still complex dialogue. Part of the reason he did so well in The Matrix is that his lines were kept simple. If you notice, he didn't have any huge soliloquies (save the blurb at the end of the film), or didn't have much in way of philosophy or tech jargon... that stuff was left up to people like Lawrence Fishburn, Hugo Weaving, Joe Pantoliano, Carrie-Ann Moss... people that can make that kind of dialogue sound convincing. I expect to see more of the same in the sequels. Neo is written to be a quiet and somewhat introverted character. For an actor like Keanu Reeves, that can work, because he can let his actions speak for much of the character's personality, and there is(was) such a strong supporting cast, the other actors can compensate for his verbal deficiencies.

He's a better actor than he used to be... but he does have things that he doesn't do all that well.

Aegis Du' Caat

May 15th, 2003, 12:01:33 AM

Matrix: Reloaded = Matrix

Keanu Reeves actually proved he could act and that he could speak. He may not have, as Fig put it, talked Tech Jargon, but he did have more lines and he was quite capable. The movie was on par with the first though I'll not say it was better.

I'm not gonna put any spoilers up so you'll have to go see to find out what happens, but trust me, you'll be begging to see Revolutions...

Lann Kirauc

May 15th, 2003, 12:13:30 AM

Ah, and our first reviewer has been rung in. I am not going to see it tonight :cry but will catch on friday or saturday. My work schedule is thus. That's great to hear you like it.

Taylor Millard

May 15th, 2003, 12:56:58 AM

My only comment about Matrix Reloaded is this.

If you know your mythology..the movie is much much more interesting.

Slow at the beginning, but it picks up speed. Worth seeing again for sure.

I just might tomorrow, who knows.

Sage Hazzard

May 15th, 2003, 01:24:37 AM

Well, I know more about mythology than the average joe. :)

I'm going to try and see it Thursday. I just hope I can get in. Didn't even think about buying an advance ticket, because until today I didn't know if I would have the cash to go, but I'll keep trying until I can find a show not sold out. :)

sirdizzy

May 15th, 2003, 01:40:01 AM

Movie Review: The Matrix Reloaded
Science Fiction/Fantasy and Thriller 2 hrs 12 mins
MPAA Rating: R for sci-fi violence and some sexuality
Release Date: May 15th, 2003
Starring: Keanu Reeves, Carrie-Anne Moss, Laurence Fishburne, Hugo Weaving, Jada Pinkett-Smith
Directed by: Andy Wachowski, Larry Wachowski

The world is now what it seems to be, for those still plugged into the Matrix they think it the early 21st century but for those who have been unplugged they realize that it is in fact centuries later. In the pursuit for the creation of Artificial Intelligence mankind might have caused there own downfall and extiction. For there is a war that has been brewing for centuries and seems about to come to and end between mankind and the machines they created. But this time the war might not be fought inside the Matrix to free people but outside to free the world itself. The machines frustrated with the humans resitance have begun to bore downwards to the last human city Zion in hopes of ending the resitance to free humanity. But mankind has one last hope and his name is Neo. The fate of all mankind may reside on Neo’s shoulders as he goes on a journey to find answers to away to end the Matrix while humanity prepares for the approach of the machines and searches for away to fight them back. But before that can happen Neo must wait for the oracles as he fights new and more dangerous problems as it appears Agent Smith is back and he just might carry the answer to all their problems.

Have you ever wondered how deep the rabbit hole goes? This phrase which is in reference to Alice and her journey into a wonderland also has much importance to the movie Matrix as Neo finds himself emerged into a land of wonder and horror at times. But this also might have much importance to the viewer as they find themselves emerged into this story. In all honesty The Matrix did not need a sequel but also again in all honesty most viewers craved for one. The great thing about the Matrix was the feeling of disbelief and confusion of the viewer as you tried to figure out the story and what the heck was going on. This movie does not have that, it does not have the feeling of falling through that rabbit hole that the first movie did. What this movie does have is an improvement on all the other things the first one had, like the incredible and amazing action and special effects. It was great to see the masters of bullet time and stop action back to work doing what so many have tried to copy and failed doing so. But is that enough, at times it felt like it just might be but at other times the story worried me too much. Morpheus has become the preacher, the cleric and his speeches felt rehearsed and planned like a TV televanglist. But it was Keanu Reeves who saved the movie, his dry delivery is what made the first movie so great and he hasn’t lost anything in the years between. You can’t help but finding yourself cheering for him and wondering what he will do next. It was him and Agent Smith along with the incredible much improved on action sequences that made this movie as good as it was. Morpheus also had some awesome fight scenes but I wish they had left out his preacher complex. Yes the movie was incredible, yes the story was a little weak and left much to be desired at times, yes there is one fight scene in the movie that made my mouth water and forced me to drool and might be the fight scene ever made, yes I am anxiously waiting to see what will happen to out heroes, yes the movie did drag a little at times, but all in all how can you go wrong with Mr. Anderson and Mr. Smith going toe to toe to decide the fate of the world.
4.5 stars out of 5

Lilaena De'Ville

May 15th, 2003, 02:17:08 AM

Originally posted by sirdizzy
4.5 stars out of

...out of what?! OUT OF WHAT?! ^_^;

I saw it.

I thought the beginning was a little disjointed, and I was getting pretty afraid of it sucking.

Then it started to go together amazingly well.

I'm going to think about the movie some more, and let more people see it, so my spoilers/thoughts can be enjoyed. :)

sirdizzy

May 15th, 2003, 02:43:18 AM

sorry about that fixed it

the quintesential differnece is that in the matrix we had not been down the rabbit hole yet, but in reloaded we have seen how far it goes

so ya need to enjoy the movie for what it is and that is its not the matrix but its sequel

the bullet time the stop action was better and far more impressive then the first

amd the fight scene between neo and the hundred Agent Smiths still has me shivering

Gurney Devries

May 15th, 2003, 09:39:36 AM

I thought the beginning was a little disjointed, and I was getting pretty afraid of it sucking.

Then it started to go together amazingly well.(removed spoiler tags because that's not a spoiler)

I felt exactly the same way. The beginning part really threw me off, and I was afraid it was going to turn out miserable. By the end, I was really getting into it. Still, this is definitely a fan movie: If you're not a fan of the first movie, I doubt you'll enjoy this one very much.

My main complaint with the movie: Too much complex, POINTLESS dialogue. For example: The scene with the French guy... wtf was the point of all that cause-and-effect jibber jabber? It was needless and it went on too long. Likewise, the architects ramblings at the end were barely decipherable.

Also, The fight scene in the playground between Neo and the hundreds of Smiths went on WAY too long and got ridiculous. I was enjoying it for a while but, eventually, I was like "This is getting out of hand".

The bullet-time was over-abused in this movie. It's kind of cool here and there for dramatic effect but really... come on, now.

There were a lot more flaws than I was expecting, but the overall package was still very enjoyable for the fans. I think it would have been much better if they had cut some stuff out of the film.

Edit ~ Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention: I dressed up for the showing. Apparently, I got the look down right; The usher asked me politely not to kill anyone and I had a group of people chanting "Neo! Neo! Neo!" at me as I walked out. Pictures pending.

Lilaena De'Ville

May 15th, 2003, 11:35:10 AM

:lol

Yes, I agree with all the "cause and affect" and "whywhywhy" in a French accent was really hard to follow for one thing, and also...just a waste of time.

However, it would make sense for it to be a waste of time, because that's basically all it was for Morpheus, Neo and Trinity. They were just as frustrated as we were.

I thought Persophone or however she's spelled would have been more of a temptress than she was...she wasn't how she'd been described in articles at all. But I was cheering for Trinity to put a bullet in her head. =) Which she didn't. =(

Tank also apparently died. Sadness!

Ryla Relvinian

May 15th, 2003, 12:51:43 PM

I've got tickets to see it at 4:10. Booya. Can't wait!

For instance, the evil Matrix creates two new enemies for Neo, called the Twins. Their first priority is to blend discreetly into the simulated world of the Matrix, to walk among the people unnoticed. So of course the Matrix made them huge albino men with bleach-white dreadlocks who occasionally transform into shrieking wraiths.

"What's that, honey?"

"Oh, nothing. It just looks like a simple Kung-Fu Swedish Rastafarian Helldemon. I'm sure there's no need to question our fragile, sheltered grasp of 'reality' as we know it."

From the 50 reasons site... heh.

It sounds pretty good so far, but I am still bothered by a character named Merovingian. Why? Because that is the name of a medieval Frankish (early france) dynasty. Oh yeah, that's original. All this Freedom propaganda and a villain who is french. God bless America. :P

Gurney Devries

May 15th, 2003, 12:55:31 PM

There were some pretty bad accents in the movie. The French guy was way too French and The Keymaker sounded way to stereotypically Asian. I could have sworn he was actually replacing all of his L's with R's. It was almost comical.

Dasquian Belargic

May 15th, 2003, 12:59:39 PM

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention: I dressed up for the showing. Apparently, I got the look down right; The usher asked me politely not to kill anyone and I had a group of people chanting "Neo! Neo! Neo!" at me as I walked out. Pictures pending.

:D!

and :lol!!! Ryla, that site is so funny :)

ReaperFett

May 15th, 2003, 01:14:40 PM

In the Matrix when Neo is fighting, Tank says he is "like a machine". Wouldnt that be an insult? ;)

Darth Viscera

May 15th, 2003, 01:50:51 PM

This movie was rather unfathomable. I'm still trying to piece together all the major plot points so I can get a look at the big picture. My noodle is rather baked. Did you guys take notes during the architect scene? If so, can I borrow them?

Agent Smith: What's the deal with this guy? He resigned from the evil robot organization and is just doing evil things of his own accord now? What's his goal? How was he able to get out of the Matrix and take physical form through the guys he infected with his virus?

Architect: So if this is now the 6th Matrix, does that mean it's not close to 2199? If every Matrix spawns a Zion, how is it that the humans are always able to scavenge 130-year old hovercrafts?

French Dude: So this pervo was serving that girl cake that induced orgasm? Does he offer wholesale online purchases?

Oracle: So she's a program? Shouldn't she be trying to kill Neo then, because Neo is trying to free the batteries that power the robots?

Doors: What's the deal with the doors? Can't they just travel from place to place in the Matrix instantaneously just by picking up a phone anyways?

They overused bullet time, there were too many hand to hand combat sequences, and the visual effects in the highway scene were not seamless. When Morpheus was fighting the agent on top of that truck on the highway, all I could see was black outlines around the characters-a telltale sign of visual effects. They should have made that scene take place at night, so no one would have noticed.

This movie didn't have the same feel as the original. It wasn't as dark and mysterious and interesting and cryptic, it was light and confusing and at times it delved deep into too many details which just didn't matter. What was that operator's name? Whoever he was, I couldn't care less whether or not his wife wanted him to be assigned to a ship with a less crazy Captain. His wife can go suck a lemon for all I care.

That said, my favorite scene was Zion Control. It was a crappy dark room with broken, decrepit things all around, but in the local Zion Matrix it was a flawless white room with transparent, nearly holographic computers and displays, and everyone was dressed in white and it had a pristine feel to it that was not unlike the dwelling of the cloners from AOTC (whose names I cannot remember). Awesome that they can control what happens in the real world from a much more livable Matrix alter-reality. They can be eating a large, medium rare filet mignon in the Matrix while inside their pristine control room, and in the real world they're eating single-celled protein rations.

And apparently there was a spoon.

And also good, Johnny Mnemonic is still in love with Catwoman.

Also, I could have sworn that a fraction of Persephone's nipples were always showing. That couldn't have been just my imagination. I know skin color differences when I see them.

Morgan Evanar

May 15th, 2003, 04:08:07 PM

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
I'm gearing my expectations low, partly so I'm not disappointed, but also because I don't expect this movie to achieve the same quality as the original. I just don't see it happening, considering the fact that the story really should be ended with Neo gaining his power. I fear that the story is going to become a Hollywood gimmick, and yes while watching a battle against disappearing twins or 100 Agent Smiths is cool, I don't think its going to save the film's quality. DING DING DING DING! Here, ladies and gentlemen, is the truth. Mneh mneh mneh. Thats all I have to say.

Taylor Millard

May 15th, 2003, 08:17:52 PM

AFter seeing it again (hey I had nothing to do this afternoon), I was able to enjoy it more than the first time. I was able to be entertained more than stimulated. I asked the people next to me what they thought and they were like, "It's deep."

So it's nice to know I'm not the other person who thought it was deep :lol

It was worth seeing again imo.

Sean Piett

May 15th, 2003, 09:12:46 PM

Not enough guns or agents. I like the addition of rogue programs, but I think their inclusion would be better for a TV show than a movie. Basically, every vampire, ghost, werewolf, and paranormal creature is a creature, according to the oracle. Lame, if you ask me.

Also, they made Neo even more powerful. Egh. Why does he have powers in the real world? Is this real world another Matrix to further confuse the resistance?

One more complaint. As Trinity and the agent fell, they didn't dodge any bullets. Does anyone find it odd that nine dozen bullets narrowly miss you before one connects? I feel like I could do better than that agent, even falling out of a skyscraper.

Still, it had some good moments, most of which evade me right now. Good movie, but not as good as numero uno.

Figrin D'an

May 15th, 2003, 09:46:25 PM

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
It sounds pretty good so far, but I am still bothered by a character named Merovingian. Why? Because that is the name of a medieval Frankish (early france) dynasty. Oh yeah, that's original. All this Freedom propaganda and a villain who is french. God bless America. :P

Suffice it to say, I believe that the use of such name was quite intentional beyond the more superficial reasonings... yes, there is the concept of the French being exceeding arrogant, which in the film, Merovingian is. But there is also a touch of mythology thrown in as well. The early members of the Merovingian Dynasty that united Gaul believed themselves to be superior beings, because they believed they were the direct decendants of Jesus Christ. There were also several instances of the kingdom formed by the Merovingians breaking apart, then reuniting, breaking apart again, reuniting, because of various feuds between children of the previous sitting monarch. If memory serves, this occured half a dozen times, until the last Merovingian monarch was deposed by Pepin the Short, whom began the Carolingian Dynasty.

A bit interesting, huh?

sirdizzy

May 15th, 2003, 11:08:28 PM

i also saw it again this afternoon and it changed some of my perceptions on the film

what about when neo fries those sentinels and goes into the coma, the first time thats what i thought happened the second time i doubted myself and started maybe thinking the hammer fired its EMT pulse

Figrin D'an

May 15th, 2003, 11:33:08 PM

A quick question for anyone whom happens to remember:

During Neo's conversation with The Architect, what number of people did he say would be removed from the Matrix to begin the next Zionist Revolt? I thought he said 23, but it might have been 13... he said it so fast, almost in passing...

Depending upon which it was... the significance is different...

sirdizzy

May 15th, 2003, 11:57:34 PM

23, 16 women 7 men

Sanis Prent

May 16th, 2003, 12:19:08 AM

Seen it.

Action: A+
Plot: B-
Acting: D

Did the writers of this movie hire a college dropout to write the script? It seems everybody is a cardboard cutout of every lame philosophy cliche in the book, from existentialism, to humanism, to causality freaks, to those who believe in predestination, etc.

I was not amused.

Sage Hazzard

May 16th, 2003, 01:04:14 AM

Well, I saw it. I was able to get a ticket without standing in a line and walk right in. :D

Everyone has their opinion, but I thought it was great. BTW, I figured out all the stuff and I'll go ahead and give you my take on it. All the little questions that have been asked here. The movie did go extremely fast though, so it was hard to keep up with the dialogue. I tried though. :)

Okay, let's start with the Architect. During the part of the movie a lot of people seemed to cough or chew extremely loud, so it was hard to hear. This is what I got out of it:

The first matrix was a failure because the humans didn't believe it. To remedy this, they needed to give the humans choices. Controled and contained choices, but it gave the humans a feeling of reality. Now, I'm unclear on this(as I mentioned before, the audience seemed to open their M&Ms at that exact time) but it seems all these choices and random possibilities created some kind of anomaly. Not sure exactly what, how, etc. but the machines manufatured a Chosen One to... I think he is the anomaly, in human form, so it can be controled. Anyway, the machines wait until Zion gets to a point where they can take them on, then destroys them and starts over. A way to make sure their numbers and skills never get great enough to win. The One has to go back into the Matrix mainframe for some reason, I believe it keeps it running because the anomaly can somehow cause a system crash unless it can be reintegrated into the Matrix. The Architect spoke way to fast, but that was good. He's a machine, not a human, he can figure out all that stuff and not stutter. Anyway, the machines are nice(yeah right) so they let the One choose, I guess it's 23 people, to remake the human population. Because they need fuel still, so it's a comprimise. But of course Neo chooses not to play their game and does his own thing. So now we're led to believe the Matrix will soon crash, all the squidies will have to kill all the humans(Zion and otherwise) and will then die off themselves I guess. Although the Architect says there's another, less desireable, thing they can do. I guess become canabals and suck each other's power out.

Now, Agent Smith. Neo 'freed' him. He broke him out of the matrix's hold, but somehow he stayed behind. Now he can duplicate himself, by taking over other people. I believe Neo gave him 'choice' somehow and now Smith can choose for himself instead of being a slave to the program. But Smith is mad, because Neo took away his purpose, being an agent. He's not a human either. So now he's aimless and has no purpose, so I guess he wants to take away Neo's purpose. To screw him over.
Now, onto how he got into the real world. Kind of simple, when you think about it. All the agents could already take over the humans and use thier body as a carrier. Agent Smith just took over his body, but changed the risidual self image to himself, so it looks like him. He either took over his brain patterns or destroyed them, taking him over. But the body still has the properties of a human who is disconnected from the Matrix. He can go back through the phone lines and return his thoughts to his body. But Smith, since he controlled that body, kind of took the guy's place. His AI is controling the brain just like our thoughts, etc. do.

Okay, now how Neo can do stuff in the real world. I think it's simple, if I'm right, of course we'll have to see the next one to know for sure. I think that when Neo became the one, his conciousness(sp?) became evolved. To the point where he could see the shackles that held him in the Matrix and use his mind to overcome them. He's not a god, his brain is just better somehow. Which explains why he's not all powerful, but really powerful. He can still bleed. Now, I think, that since his brain waves was in the matrix and was changed, it changed his real brain too. Humans only use 10% of their brains, so what if the machines somehow opened up some of the rest of his brain? I think that explains his real world power. Also, I think it explains his coma. I guess even though his thought patterns are different, his human brain couldn't take that much "whatever it was". So he kind of overloaded and went into a coma. But he doesn't go into a coma in the Matrix, because his brain is kind of virtual then. :)

BTW, that 100 Agent Smiths scene was incredible. Best fight scene ever IMO. I was wanting it to go on for longer! :D Too much of that good a thing is not a bad thing. :)

Hope that helps and that atleast some of it was coherant. I'm in love with this movie. :)

Marcus Telcontar

May 16th, 2003, 06:13:21 PM

Whatr opinion about the signigigance of the the french guy and the acrhitect we have right now I am certain is wrong. Sanis, quiet. I've had it with your bashing Matrix stuff, it's soooooo old hat. Deal with it and move on.

Well, I'm really processing a lot of stuff right now, but what appeared a shallow action movie, isn't there's a lot more things that are going on and questions to ask. Action was top notch allright, really good. I personally thought the plot was quite good and fitted in with the first one well. It also extended it too. remember what the Oracle said "Waiting for something, another life?". WTF is that supposed to mean with the fact Neo is the 6th One?

I'm not sure, now I've been able to read opinions, that anyone has this right. This was intentionally a confusing movie at times, but one with an answer. There are some very subtle things or words, or actions were you notice, it changes you perspective of the whole movie.

So far, it's obvious Neo and Agent Smith are something the Matrix did not expect. the plans the Matrix had has diverted into somethign else. This wont end like the 5 previous anomilies.

Makes me wonder why Peromone, as a "supposed" program, wanted love. Why? And why did those other programs die more like humans? And why........ I could ask "and why" a lot. There are a lot of questions to be resolved. Biggie is, how the hell has Neo managed to become as he showed in the real world at the end??????

Worth seeing again. Absolutly. And I was dressed up as well, when I walked into the theatre there were many cries of NEO!. Amused me no end.

ReaperFett

May 16th, 2003, 06:18:08 PM

Marcus, Sanis can say his opinion just as much as anyone else. He gave a review didnt he? It's a review thread, where people can talk about the film.

Mu Satach

May 16th, 2003, 06:39:52 PM

the more I think about it the more I think there are two possibities to the stand off with Neo and the Sentinels at the end,

1 - (which has been suggested by others) they are still in a matrix only believing that they have a choice... therefor Neo has learned to manipulate it's program as well the inner matrix. Some of the phrases the architect used makes me think that Zion is a part of the system. (I'm not exactly keen on this idea.)

2 - just as the other programs broke their programing, just as Smith broke his programming, I think that Neo has broken his. The more I think about it I don't think Neo is quite human. I think he's a program that has been graphed onto a human, much like Smith has copied himself onto a human. Smith was able to communicate somehow with the sentenils so they wouldn't kill him. You notice that at the end of the movie he's kind of in the same condition Neo is in. I think what happened at the end is that Neo is begining to operate on the level of the machines more and more. The thing that really sticks out in my mind is how the phrase "he is still just a man" is used multiple times by the Agents, the Rogues, Smith... etc. as though they are expecting him to be something more. At the end there Neo knows it's a bomb that is going to get thown at them. he starts noticingsomething's different. "I can feel them." This kind of falls inline with the mythology of the movie and the correlations between Neo & Christ. Christ was God in human form. Neo could be a program/machine in human form, therefor able to communicate and perhaps manipulate the machines on a level he was previously unaware of but after speaking with the architect he is becoming aware of his true nature.

anyway... that's how I'm taking those final shots...

Marcus Telcontar

May 16th, 2003, 06:53:14 PM

and Agent Smith is the Anti-Christ? That could work

Mu Satach

May 16th, 2003, 06:58:56 PM

Yeah, something like that... I've started calling him the Anti-Neo

When the idea hit me earlier today I busted up laughing... but it sort of fits. :)

Marcus Telcontar

May 16th, 2003, 07:28:21 PM

well, also thinking that Neo was no accident - he was programmed to be as he was, so the idea of him being part program / part human is plausible. Smith was supposed to occur as well I guess - considering it's all been seen up to the part where Neo visits the architect - then the whole thing for the machines goes screwy. Smith (Hey did you notice thet guy Smith took over looks like Cypher?) I dont think was supposed to go outside as he did.

So, Neo isnt just "human" anymore, but Smith is no longer just a program either. Neo, ebing part program, could affect machines outside. The freanch guys blather on Cause and Effect is important too - it hints whats supposed to happen.

Blah. Head hurts

Mu Satach

May 16th, 2003, 07:58:04 PM

:lol

Thankfully we don't have to wait too long for the conclusion. I'd have my brain tied up in knots if the wait was too long. :)

Marcus Telcontar

May 16th, 2003, 08:05:58 PM

Hell yeah. I really want all this explained now.

Nathanial K'cansce

May 16th, 2003, 10:24:26 PM

Just got back from seeing it, and I went in with my expectations about as low as Sanis's were....

All in all, I'd buy it on dvd when it comes out, just to say I own it. Doubt I'll go see it again. Musics and sound was decent. Special effects were great, but not-needed in many places where they put them. It seemed to me like they were shoving their tech/SFX down our throats, screaming "Hey, look what we can do! Over and Over! Yay us!"

Story/plot... it was deep. But I still don't think it was needed. It ended, to me, with the first one. This one just seemed like a cash hungry monster. *shrugs*

Don't get me wrong, I'll definately dish out the buck to go see Revelations (correct name?).. but my expectations will be about the same as this film. But who knows, maybe it will turn me aroudn on these sequals.

Sage Hazzard

May 17th, 2003, 01:14:29 AM

Marcus, it wasn't "Peromone" it's "Persephone". I'm betting Figran will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe she was Hades' wife in Greek Methology. He carried her off to the underworld I believe, much to her mother's(the goddess of the seasons I believe) dismay. Her mother, if I remember her goddess title right, was so sad she turned the earth into an endless winter. Zeus got pissed and forced Hades to let her go back to earth and her mother two seasons out of the year. Which is why, they say in Greek Mythos, we get the warm seasons(mommy happy) and the cold seasons (mommy sad). I'm betting it has something to do with her role. Morpheus(the name) is the god of dreams in some mythology I believe, and he is very much a dreamer. Neo means "new", and he's the new One. Also, weren't that French guy's henchemen vampires, werewolves, and ghosts? Which is why she killed them with a silver bullet and why the twins are ghost like? It's supposed to be old thrown away programs who hack their own program to give them attributes they want, like being ghostly. Right? Well, I guess it all goes into an underworld theme. Maybe the french guy is supposed to represent Hades?... not sure what'd that mean though.

Oh, and my older brother seems to think in the next movie they might have Smith of taken over everyone in the Matrix. I'm thinking it's just his wishful thinking(as he thinks that'd be cool), but it might be true. There were an awful long line of Smiths, it seemed like the rest of the Matrix was in a huge storm, so it could be possible. Might be a way for Neo to free all of the Matrix inhabitants in one swoop. Just do something to Smith and all of them snap out of it... well, maybe not. :lol

I love the ending btw. I'm going to see Revolutions anyway, I was before I saw this. So the fact it ended with a cliffhanger is great. I'm planning on seeing it opening day, so I'm super glad they did it this way. Man, they screwed over them didn't they?Let's try and count what kind of turmoil's going on... Neo's in a coma, Smith is in the real world(though in a coma too), the sentinels are getting through, and the matrix is supposed to collapse isn't it? Which means all the humans in the pods will be killed by the machines when they wake up... boy, they got my attention. :lol

BTW, I loved the special effects, they should have had more. Cool is cool no matter how many bucket loads of it there is.

Figrin D'an

May 17th, 2003, 02:37:29 AM

Originally posted by Sage Hazzard
Marcus, it wasn't "Peromone" it's "Persephone". I'm betting Figran will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe she was Hades' wife in Greek Methology. He carried her off to the underworld I believe, much to her mother's(the goddess of the seasons I believe) dismay. Her mother, if I remember her goddess title right, was so sad she turned the earth into an endless winter. Zeus got pissed and forced Hades to let her go back to earth and her mother two seasons out of the year. Which is why, they say in Greek Mythos, we get the warm seasons(mommy happy) and the cold seasons (mommy sad). I'm betting it has something to do with her role. Morpheus(the name) is the god of dreams in some mythology I believe, and he is very much a dreamer. Neo means "new", and he's the new One. Also, weren't that French guy's henchemen vampires, werewolves, and ghosts? Which is why she killed them with a silver bullet and why the twins are ghost like? It's supposed to be old thrown away programs who hack their own program to give them attributes they want, like being ghostly. Right? Well, I guess it all goes into an underworld theme. Maybe the french guy is supposed to represent Hades?... not sure what'd that mean though.

That's basically right. I posted a little bit about this in the discussion thread over at Meras. Merovingian fits the Hades mold to a point... the same with Persephone... but, it's close enough to be recognizable and see the ties. Morpheus is the son of Hypnos in Greek mythology, Hypos being the god of sleep, Morpheus the god of dreams.

There's lots of little things... Neo's apartment number being 101, the book he hides his data disks in is a copy of "Simulacra and Simulation"... specifically the chapter entitled "On Nihilism..., the significant of the name Thomas Anderson, the christening plaque on the Nebuchadnezzar reading Mark III, No. 11... the list goes on and on...

I even think I've figured out the significance of 23 as well. That make me feel better... :)

Darth Viscera

May 17th, 2003, 06:37:56 AM

That's nothing! I've started reading the report that Agent Smith has on Neo in the first movie (Smith-Neo interrogation scene). Of course, it's upside down, but I can easily play the movie back inverted.

Figrin D'an

May 17th, 2003, 11:47:34 AM

Originally posted by Darth Viscera
That's nothing! I've started reading the report that Agent Smith has on Neo in the first movie (Smith-Neo interrogation scene). Of course, it's upside down, but I can easily play the movie back inverted.

And your point is?

Lilaena De'Ville

May 17th, 2003, 11:53:41 AM

He's attempting to make fun of you and Sage.

*marks down 1 point for Figrin, negative 1 for Viscera* ;)

Ryla Relvinian

May 17th, 2003, 02:05:21 PM

Ok, review time.

First of all, Mu I think you are totally right. That was what I was thinking, especially considering the end of the first movie. Neo has Smith's control over machines and Smith as Neo's humanity, which manifests itself in the transformation into the other guy and going into Zion. It's a tradeoff, but it makes them both more dangerous and more succeptable to each other. Plot prediction for next movie=both will have to die to save Zion. It just has to happen like that, methinks.

That said, this movie made me so glad I paid attention in my Cyber-philosophy classes last year... I felt like the dialogue was brilliant, especiall in the scenes with the Oracle and the Architect. If you'll notice, the Oracle never ever tells the full story to anyone, just tells them what they need to hear so they think they are doing one thing but are really doing another. This movie is all about layers upon layers of intent and control... even to control of the audience. We are meant to think that Zion is the Real World... but it's not that simple, I think.

However, I felt that some of the fight scenes, especially the ones with Neo went a bit too long... I mean, we already know he's gonna win because he has to survive for the next movie, so there isn't really an emotional investment. The fights with Morpheus and especially Trinity in the beginning and the end, you really care about, because they cannot defeat agents but still survive, thanks to Neo doing his "superman thing".

The sex scene/rave? Brilliant, and not totally foreign to the plot movement. Especially since Neo sees the image of Trinity being shot during such an intimate moment. Very touching, I thought.

I've seen it twice already, and I may go again. This is a great movie, a bit weak in spots, but good stuff. :)

Figrin D'an

May 17th, 2003, 04:21:10 PM

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
The sex scene/rave? Brilliant, and not totally foreign to the plot movement. Especially since Neo sees the image of Trinity being shot during such an intimate moment. Very touching, I thought.

My only problem here is the length of the scenes... they were too long. The content itself was fine... it's a nice nod the to whole socratic concept of casting off the shackles of 'The Cave," paralleled between the Neo/Trinity love scene and the rave orgy thing... it just lingered too long... it's something that a person in the audience is either going to get or not get... there's little chance for epiphany by extending the sequence for more exposure.

A minor quibble, I guess. Just something that stuck out as a "rough spot", IMO.

Ryla Relvinian

May 17th, 2003, 04:42:10 PM

... it's something that a person in the audience is either going to get or not get... there's little chance for epiphany by extending the sequence for more exposure.

Yes, but I do salute the brothers for not dumbing down the talkative scenes... in effect, both the Artichect scene as well as the dance/sex scene were saying the same thing... defining what makes humanity undefinable by logical programming.

Plus it was a good excuse for some really good techno. :)

Marcus Telcontar

May 17th, 2003, 04:58:21 PM

This will amuse hackers and crackers - I bet they would have noted too

When Trinity is breaking into the power grid, she is using a real hacking tool - nmap. She also uses a real security vunerability in SSH version 1. The "sshnuke" isnt, but the effect is real - she gains root (superuser) and resets the root password to Z10N101. The output onscreen isnt quite right, but for you no techies, you have just seen how a real crack works. Mad props there

Marcus Telcontar

May 17th, 2003, 05:00:00 PM

Plus it was a good excuse for some really good techno

No such thing :x

Zasz Grimm

May 17th, 2003, 05:06:12 PM

I just got back from seeing it a few moments ago. I've read a couple reviews, to which I agree with, but am very sketchy with.

I am going to put all my comments in tags, just because I don't want to give anything away on accident.

First off, I want to start with the ending, since that is what everyone else is speaking of. I believe perhaps in Sage's reasoning. That he can access the entirity of his brain, and tap into his powers. But then you have another view, that he is a machine program. I could go into my view on that, but that would just take too long and confuse even myself. I believe that perhaps him being 'The One', and his powers in The Matrix, have somehow ebbed over to the 'Real World'. This view is odd, I know, and I'm still trying to add onto it. I will get back to you all after I've had more time to think on this.

I loved this movie, I went into it with high hopes, and came out very pleased.

Ah, something just hit me, I was speaking with this with my dad. Perhaps because his five predecessors constantly chose the 23 people..16 women, 7 men. That when he chose 'love' that when he chose to go 'against the system', he changed the coding perhaps. Perhaps he freed a part of his mind? Perhaps when he did that he unlocked something in his mind that gave him the ability to be semi-god like in the 'Real World'. Perhaps the machines expected him to go the route of the others. And in doing that, they wrote an underlying code, perhaps?

And I don't know if I believe the 'Matrix' within a 'Matrix'. I've seen it done before in the movie 'eXistenz'. Sure, it's a high possibility. But why would they give 'One' being the ability to wreak so much havoc, to kill so much of their 'energy' what they need the most? It makes no sense. And what if, this whole 5 before him, is a lie. What if that other door led to his death? Surely the Machines can lie.

Also, the Agents want Smith gone also, as they want the other 'exiles' gone. They go agaisnt the 'construct'.

I think the fightin, the plot, was excellent! Sure, Keanu Reeves isn't the best actor, but the Wachowski's wrote Neo to be a badass. They didn't mean for him to walk around and talk, have long dialogue's. He's meant to kick people around.

And to the scenes with all the long talking, I, personally, felt it was needed. Sure, the cause and effect one was rather stupid, and not needed, but lead to a really great fight scene / line..."Ok, you have some skill."

I loved the movie, that it was awesome, can't wait to see Revolutions, and Reloaded once more.

Oh, and Viscera, I think you were right. I could see the nipples myself. You weren't imagining things.

:)

More to come later, when I discuss with friends.

Zasz Grimm

May 17th, 2003, 06:09:39 PM

I also thought when Smith was marveling at his own humanity. i.e: When he was cutting into his hand and staring at it, mumbling insanely. And when he tried to take out Morpheous and Neo. It was great.

Morgan Evanar

May 17th, 2003, 06:44:40 PM

I saw that too Mark, made me grin.

Fanbios.

Lilaena De'Ville

May 17th, 2003, 07:43:51 PM

The Matrix within a Matrix possibility reminds me of that ST:TNG episode when they get caught inside several layers in the holodeck by the holographic nemesis of Sherlock Holmes. Moriarty. Rememeber that one? I liked that one.

Taylor Millard

May 17th, 2003, 08:04:53 PM

That was a very interesting episode. Hmm...that's an interesting theory for sure.

Darth Viscera

May 17th, 2003, 08:38:25 PM

They also mentioned the Osiris in the beginning of the movie, I think when they were in Zion. The context was something like "Commander, the Osiris has detected a huge army tunneling down towards the Core."

But what's the Osiris? I think that they made an animatrix film about it called the Last Flight of the Osiris. Anyone know what it is?

I'm guessing that it's some sort of scout/recon ship.

Darth007

May 17th, 2003, 08:41:03 PM

Heres what I think about the architect thing:

Possibility 1: The Architect is playing mind games with Neo, doing anything he can possibly do, to confuse him or change his mind about the world he lives in. He wants to stop Neo from destroying the Matrix and the machines, so its all one big lie.

Possibility 2: When the Machines took control over the humans and won the war, they created a matrix to keep the humans peaceful. Problems occured, and machines are perfectionists, so they ended it and recreated it - rebooted. All of our human history as we know it has occured 6 times before but each time it improves to the Architects desire. Neo has tried to save the humans before and is doing it again for the 6th time, and his destiny is predetermined. He is a program created to give the humans hope, a false sense of reality, and a way of keeping 23 humans alive to reproduce so the machines can live on for the next matrix.

About the French guy, I think his speech was important, I dont know how you guys didnt see this. Sure he rampled on in a funny accent and 50% of it was jibberish and humor to spice up the movie. However he talks about cause and effect, and control. What he is doing is proving Morpheus' beliefs totally wrong by saying that every cause has an effect, and that we have a freewill to make our choices and accept their effects. Morpheus believes that everyone has a fate, and that Neo's fate was to be the One and save humanity. Now with the machines in control of their so called real world, this may be true.

And for the action, holy mother of God im speechless. Fights too long? Bull! I couldve watched Neo smack 500 more agents around with a led pipe for all I care. The sound effects, music, and effects were perfect. I liked that they didnt have guns. The sword/axe/mace/dagger fight in the stair case was awesome. And the fist fight in the tea room was nice and crisp.

Car chase = I was moving in my seat with the motorcycle.

When Morpheus was fighting the agent on top of that truck on the highway, all I could see was black outlines around the characters-a telltale sign of visual effects.

Who cares?!? Honestly! Who goes to the movie to knit pick tiny black lines around someone in an awesome fight scene!? Just enjoy it, I didnt see a thing!

:crack

Im sorry this movie was amazing. It makes you crave for more, with sooo many friggin questions unanswered. Whats so cool is that everything we thought we knew about the first one has made a 180 with this 6 matrix thing. Its so deep, and confusing... Its like when you try to think of what existed before the big bang, something had to cause it. And what made that thing which caused the big bang. Its like that with this whole architect speech, it boggles ya. :x

Sean Piett

May 17th, 2003, 08:47:48 PM

(Following post contains spoilers from both Animatrix and Matrix Reloaded)

Has anyone who's seen both Reloaded and the Animatrix seen the similarities between Zero One and Zion? They sound similar, and both are sort of last vestiges of their race. In episode four of the Animatrix, the humans destroyed Zero One but the robots pushed out and took over anyway. Possible allusion?

Sorry if someone else brought this up already.

Darth007

May 17th, 2003, 08:53:15 PM

um... Arent Animatrix and the Matrix tied in to the same story, just different characters, location, time setting? Everything the Wachyski bro's make about the Matrix is related: the anime, the movies, the video game are all part of one huge plot.

And Zero One is 01, computer code. I dont know if it translates to anything but I dont think it is a symbol of anything significicant, just a creative name.

Darth Viscera

May 17th, 2003, 09:00:59 PM

Originally posted by Sean Piett
(Following post contains spoilers from both Animatrix and Matrix Reloaded)

Has anyone who's seen both Reloaded and the Animatrix seen the similarities between Zero One and Zion? They sound similar, and both are sort of last vestiges of their race. In episode four of the Animatrix, the humans destroyed Zero One but the robots pushed out and took over anyway. Possible allusion?

Sorry if someone else brought this up already.

Maybe so, maybe it's just a coincidence.

Sage Hazzard

May 17th, 2003, 11:17:35 PM

*Hugs Darth007*

You're my new best friend! :D I hope they have him fight hundreds of agent Smiths, have black lines around them, have lots of bullet time, and have the fight scenes last an hour. And here I thought, after exiting the movie, that nitpicking the fight scenes would be impossible! Well, to each his own.

Darth007

May 17th, 2003, 11:36:38 PM

eh easy there...

*shoves him off* O_o

oh and side note..

amen brotha!

Figrin D'an

May 17th, 2003, 11:44:41 PM

Calm down there, kiddies... it was a relatively good film, but it was far from perfect. Let the hype and sensory overload wear off a little bit, then you might be able to examine it more objectively.

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
The Matrix within a Matrix possibility reminds me of that ST:TNG episode when they get caught inside several layers in the holodeck by the holographic nemesis of Sherlock Holmes. Moriarty. Rememeber that one? I liked that one.

Thank you! I wasn't the only one that thought about that then. :)

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 12:06:41 AM

did I say it was perfect? did you sage?
:rolleyes
I dont rememer saying anything about totally perfect

But it was pretty damn close. Oh well what can I do. Im just glad im not critical like you guys are, I spend my 9 bucks to have fun.

Marcus Telcontar

May 18th, 2003, 12:16:28 AM

I disagree - it's far from perfect. The issues of fights and the rave lingering too long are right. I'm a big fan of Reloaded now, but the fact is, what you like does not make things perfect. The CG was not perfect, it was even obvious at times. They could have cut out parts of both without any loss of impact and even sped the movie up.

The mindfrelling however - hey now that was good. The more I think about the possibilities, the mind gets more frelled.

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 12:22:06 AM

i didnt say my opinion mattered, its just what I thought.

Nothings perfect so I have never seen something perfect to compare it to, therefore its not perfect.

confused..? :p

Anyways yeah it was obvious that 80% of the burly brawl was CGI but it was still fricken awesome. And I never got bored from the fight scenes, they added to the intensity the way I see it. The movie's all about Neo's growth in knowledge and strength(no growth in acting though :lol) and how he will be the one to save the humans.

Figrin D'an

May 18th, 2003, 12:29:51 AM

Originally posted by Darth007
did I say it was perfect? did you sage?
:rolleyes
I dont rememer saying anything about totally perfect

But it was pretty damn close. Oh well what can I do. Im just glad im not critical like you guys are, I spend my 9 bucks to have fun.

Being critical is what helps one differentiate between like and dislike. Be honest... there are films that you think are horrible, just like the rest of us.

Some of us just happen to see some faults with the film. That's not to say that we didn't enjoy seeing it, or appreciate certain aspects. It's each of us being honest with ourselves about our impressions of what we saw.

I liked it for the most part, but I saw some flaws. I consider the money I spent to see it well-worth the price of admission, but perhaps for different reasons than you do... after all, fun is relative to the individual.

HunterJodoKast

May 18th, 2003, 12:36:21 AM

Holy marketing schemes! If you are confused and lost in Reloaded's often disjointed crypticness. Well there is a solution. It's called Animatrix and that new Matrix video game. Both fill you in on what is happening behind the scenes of those most cryptic moments.

When the oriental woman in the Animatrix episode drops the letter in the mailbox is precisely where the videogame picks up. In the first level of the video game, you are Niobe and you must find your way to a certain infamous mailbox to retrieve a certain infamous letter. Actually, the movie directors and crew filmed a full hour's, yes a full hour's worth of cinematic footage strictly for the video game alone. Video and animated movie will showcase many of the characters that had the briefest appearances in the movie too.

All or most of the questions left by the movie is composed linearly in the combination of both video game and Animatrix. Most everything is supposed to be tied up by both. What an expensive decoder, eh?

I really enjoyed the movie and think it was awesome. I really love the rogue programs idea and how that tied the matrix and the oracle together. Awesome. I wonder what they are going to do to situate the oracle in the film. Because the actress that portrayed her, Gloria Foster, died at the young age of 64 just after Reloaded finished shooting. But Seraph is going to reappear in revolutions. And obviously Agent Smith too. I really dug how the former did not wear black like all the rest of the characters but wore white instead. Can't say more now but will save it for later.

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 12:36:38 AM

eh, 9 bucks is a lot for a movie.. not included food.. So I only see movies that are meant for the big screen, like with awesome surround sound and special FX that I will never be able to experiance on my 20" TV. So I guess you're right, I only see action movies and therefore I like em all.

For example I plan on seeing Finding Nemo because besides the fact that that movie will pwn j00, but that it also looks sweet. How dp they make it look so....drinkable?? :huh

Sage Hazzard

May 18th, 2003, 01:10:29 AM

:lol My brother, who is your typical "that's too kiddy for me" is contemplating seeing that Finding Nemo thing, because it looks so good. :lol

Yeah, it's not perfect. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect film. I'm not sure one exists. There's some things about the Matrix Reloaded I could nitpick on. In fact, probably some things not already mentioned. But I won't, because I choose not to. Everyone has the right to voice their opinions, negative or positive. I, personally, just liked this movie so much that right now I'm not in the frame of mind to start talking bad of it. I'm a big action fan. I like bullet time, kung-fu, guns, and explosions. So this movie was exactly what I wanted to see. :)

Might not belong in spoilers, but it might reveal if the Oracle is in the film or not, as some people might not know... I just wanted to say it's tragic she died. She was an excellent actress. I've never seen her in anything else, as I don't even know of her other film credits, but I'm saddened I won't get the chance to. One of the top highlights of the first and second film. And that's saying a lot with all the visual effects in this. I just loved the way she played this woman. Made you feel like she was your grandma or something. :)

Darth Viscera

May 18th, 2003, 06:57:05 AM

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
The mindfrelling however - hey now that was good. The more I think about the possibilities, the mind gets more frelled.

Jee-sus. What a mindjob.

ReaperFett

May 18th, 2003, 07:28:43 AM

Sage, http://us.imdb.com/Name?Foster,%20Gloria

Only one of those I know of is Leonard Part 6, considered one of the worst movies ever by some, and one I must see :D

Jedieb

May 18th, 2003, 10:26:45 AM

I saw it last night and I have to say I thought it was a VERY good film. Overall, I thought the first Matrix was a tighter and better film. Where MR exceeded the original was in scope and action. The fight scenes were simply awesome. I thought the effects were incredible. Yes, there were times when you knew you were looking at a completely CGI Neo, but it STILL looked good.

Not the greatest movie ever made, but a very good movie and it's certainly going to do well enough to sustain momentum for Revolutions. Reloaded isn't going to produce the B.O. hangover effect that sequels like Back To the Future Part 2, or dare I say TPM, did. This one's going to end up between $300M-$350 and Revolutions should end up somewhere in the same neighborhood.

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 10:32:09 AM

yeah so what if it doesnt do as good as TPM, I personally think Matrix 1 and 2 are far better than TPM and AOTC. The bars holding down the Matrix in the boxoffice is its R rating and the complexity of it that turns off some of the general audience.

I love how the producers didnt hype it up though, went out on a mass marketing campaign, or gave away details. They have been modest throughout the whole thing, and all this other hype just proves that actions are louder than words. *coughgeorgelucascough*

ReaperFett

May 18th, 2003, 10:36:21 AM

Darth, Joel Silver said something along the lines of Reloaded being the greatest action film ever a few months back. THat sounds so modest, doesnt it? :rolleyes

And Lucas barely ever hypes things up, just as the Warchowskis themselves dont.

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 10:52:09 AM

ok... so uh... everything i said was invalid...
But I think I know what interview you're talking about, and in that he was joking.

Anywho, if having that little 9 year old punk anakins face on every pepsi can and lays bag of chips is modest and not hype, then I dont know what is.

Lann Kirauc

May 18th, 2003, 07:52:22 PM

The Star Wars prequels are terrible. They're like cracking open a can of Star Wars-lite. Too anemic and synthetic. And all of the characters of both feel like robots just going through the motions. I have lost alot of respect for Lucas because he has made millions possibly billions over the years off of sales and revenues.

Despite that very fact, this is the best Lucas can give his fandom.. the same fans that made him so wealthy. Just these two flaky efforts. Terrible movies that tarnished an otherwise great franchise. Reloaded was not as good as the original one but at least the Wachowski brothers put in an effort to maintain quality and integrity.

*no flame war intended with this post*

Xazor Elessar

May 18th, 2003, 08:16:27 PM

:eek

Just saw MR and OMG! It was awesome! :D That's all I really have to say about it. I'm not one to sit here and dissect a movie or whatever, and I really don't want to nor do I see the need. I simply have to stand up and give it mad mad props.

The only small thing I have to point out are the graphics. That's some MBS right there, honestly. Talk about mindfrelling. :eek

Lilaena De'Ville

May 18th, 2003, 08:49:33 PM

MBS?

Darth007

May 18th, 2003, 08:52:18 PM

im gonna have to go with

"mind blowing shiz" :angel

Lilaena De'Ville

May 18th, 2003, 09:04:27 PM

Could be "Mucho B. S." :p

Sage Hazzard

May 19th, 2003, 12:35:08 AM

Reaper: Thanks. Nope, never seen one of those movies.

*Hugs Xazor* MBS... wise words, wise words. :D

Yo, Figran, did you say you figured out what the signfigance of 23 is? What is it? My brother said that the number 23 appears many times in stuff, and he told me of some stuff but I don't remember what he said.

Can anyone tell me if Niobe has any kind of origin in religious text, or otherwise? I'm drawing a blank. I've figured out a lot of stuff, with help from my bro. Neo, means new and is an anagram(is that what it's called?) for One. Mopheus is the god of dreams. The Nebecannezer(sp??) is, my brother tells me, a king in the bible. I think he said he was persucuting the Jews, which is odd for a ship name. Trinity, only thing I can think of is the Holy Trinity, the Son the Father and the Holy Ghost, but that'd be odd if they meant to do something with that name. That Mangevinian(sp?) guy, the french guy, the name has to do with some dynasty that thought they were directly related to Jesus or something. Persephone, wife of Hades. Only names I haven't figured out are Niobe and Ghost. Ghost might just be one of those names they just made up, like Tank, Dozer, Mouse, etc. Oh, and Osiris(as in, Final flight of the Osiris) is an Egytpian god, forgot what he's a god of.

Might seem silly to try and think about the meaning of the names, but I enjoy it. :)

Sejah Haversh

May 19th, 2003, 12:56:43 AM

Yoipe! Unmaked spoiler! Quick, somebody cover it, it's naked!

Sage Hazzard

May 19th, 2003, 01:03:12 AM

Whoo, that was close. :lol Sorry about that. No big spoilers though, thankfully. :)

Sejah Haversh

May 19th, 2003, 01:04:32 AM

Good, 'cause I ain't seen it yet. *Draws more stuff to ink while he waits for the DVD*

Figrin D'an

May 19th, 2003, 02:00:35 AM

Originally posted by Sage Hazzard
Yo, Figran, did you say you figured out what the signfigance of 23 is? What is it? My brother said that the number 23 appears many times in stuff, and he told me of some stuff but I don't remember what he said.

I'm pretty sure it's a nod to Robert Anton Wilson. He wrote about the cosmic significance of the number 23 in one of his books (I can't remember which one... there's so many of them), then expanded upon the idea later in some essays. He's the kind of author that the Wachowski brothers are likely very familiar with, given the topics he's tackled over the years. The original idea of the "great 23" came from William Burroughs, I think, but Wilson really developed it.

The Nebecannezer(sp??) is, my brother tells me, a king in the bible.

King Nebuchadnezzar was a ruler of ancient Bablyon... he's talked about in the Book of Daniel(?)... anyway, he had a chronic problem with bad dreams, among other things...

Trinity, only thing I can think of is the Holy Trinity, the Son the Father and the Holy Ghost.

That's it, exactly. In the story of the Resurrection, it's said that the Holy Spirit breathed life back into Christ 3 days (72 hours) after his death. Trinity kisses Neo, "breathing" life back into his body exactly 72 seconds after he "dies."

That Mangevinian(sp?) guy, the french guy, the name has to do with some dynasty that thought they were directly related to Jesus or something.

The Merovingian dynasty that united Gaul (modern day France) believed that they were the direct descendants of Christ. The nation under their dynasty also was fractured and reunited many many times...

Oh, and Osiris(as in, Final flight of the Osiris) is an Egytpian god, forgot what he's a god of.

Osirus is the Egyptian god of the afterlife.

Jedieb

May 19th, 2003, 12:00:43 PM

So, am I the only one bouncing around the idea that there's a chance that Zion may not be 'real?' That it could actually be a Matrix within a Matrix? That would certainly explain why Neo was able to control the sentinels at the end of the film and how Smith was able to carry a part of himself into the 'real' world. I hadn't thought of this until I read it somewhere, but it's an interesting idea. I'm still leaning towards the idea that this current Neo is the first of the 6 the Architect mentioned that has been able to choose hope (The attempt to save Trinity) over returning to the Matrix. This Neo is different than the others and for the first time humanity has a chance of finally overthrowing the Machines.
What do ya think?

ReaperFett

May 19th, 2003, 12:28:19 PM

Eb, a lot of people on other boards have a similar theory to that.

I have lost alot of respect for Lucas because he has made millions possibly billions over the years off of sales and revenues.
...rrright :huh

Sage Hazzard

May 20th, 2003, 12:52:33 AM

Figran, wow, thanks for all that info. That's so weird... Morpheus has a ship based on a dude with bad dreams... and his name is the same as the god of dreams. Hmm... Well, maybe this could be hinting at what Jedieb is trying to say. I see that Morpheus woke Neo up from a dream, the Matrix. But he brought him aboard an even worse dream... perhaps there's symbolism there. That Morpheus woke Neo up into an even worse trickery, that there's a Matrix inside the Matrix.

Damn, with all the other parrells to the people's names, there's got to be something here...

Darth Viscera

May 20th, 2003, 08:43:36 AM

At the beginning of the movie, after Smith gives Neo his earpiece as a present for setting him free and Neo kicks the crap out of 3 agents, there's another odd scene:

Smith1: That went as expected.
Smith2: Yes.
Smith1: It's happening exactly as before.
Smith2: Well, not exactly. (wide grin)

I suppose this means that Smith had a big controlling part in the last 5 matrices, but last time he had no copies, because he was never "set free". The One in the last 5 matrices didn't destroy Smith, thereby setting him free and allowing him to make copies of himself, thus enabling him to gain access to the "real world" as well as giving Neo some sort of power over machines in the "real world".

The difference is Neo's love for Trinity. The Architect mentions that the last 5 anomalies loved mankind in general, but Neo is different because his love is far more specific-he just loves Trinity. It's Neo's love for Trinity that sets things apart, allowing him to destroy/set free Smith after Trinity revives him.

So due to Neo's love for Trinity, this 6th matrix is going to turn out much different than the last 5. The Architect seems to think that Neo's love for Trinity will result in the machines destroying every last human on the planet.

Update:
Remember the scene where one of the orphans gives Neo the spoon? Remember the scene from the first movie? "There is no spoon." Well in the second movie we get to the see the real spoon, and we are led to believe that it's a real spoon, but I think that's just the makers of the movie trying to tell us that Zion isn't real. The same rule from the first movie still applies-there's still no spoon.

Lilaena De'Ville

May 20th, 2003, 05:46:30 PM

Originally posted by Darth Viscera

Update:
Remember the scene where one of the orphans gives Neo the spoon? Remember the scene from the first movie? "There is no spoon." Well in the second movie we get to the see the real spoon, and we are led to believe that it's a real spoon, but I think that's just the makers of the movie trying to tell us that Zion isn't real. The same rule from the first movie still applies-there's still no spoon.

I really like that idea. I noticed the 'real' spoon as well, but I didn't take that step with my thinking at the time...

Xazor Elessar

May 20th, 2003, 05:53:15 PM

Originally posted by Xazor Elessar
:eek

Just saw MR and OMG! It was awesome! :D That's all I really have to say about it. I'm not one to sit here and dissect a movie or whatever, and I really don't want to nor do I see the need. I simply have to stand up and give it mad mad props.

The only small thing I have to point out are the graphics. That's some MBS right there, honestly. Talk about mindfrelling. :eek

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
MBS?

Originally posted by Darth007
im gonna have to go with

"mind blowing shiz" :angel

Originally posted by Sage Hazzard
*Hugs Xazor* MBS... wise words, wise words.

Oh yes, 007, you are correct! :D Mad props to you, dude. :D

*Huggles Sage* Thankies bro. ;)

Darth007

May 20th, 2003, 06:04:59 PM

cool cool :cool

Lann Kirauc

May 20th, 2003, 09:31:44 PM

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I really like that idea. I noticed the 'real' spoon as well, but I didn't take that step with my thinking at the time...

That, or it is just confirming that some kid out there in Zion is sorta sending his blessings to Neo. The same kid he had encountered in the Matrix. But then again that would be kinda blah wouldn't it. That scene is rather tantillizing because who is to say the kid that could bend spoons was even human but rather a rogue program. Hopefully, there is an answer to this curious tidbit in Revolution. And it has been pretty much left open whether the Oracle is even good but manipulative.

Zasz Grimm

May 20th, 2003, 09:48:10 PM

My friend Chris and I just got back from seeing the movie once more, he's gone, but perhaps I thought I would relay a thought before I went to bed.

After watching it again, Chris suggested something to me that I could put out of my mind. I don't think it is really so, but what if?

What if when Neo went to see the Architect...he never left? That he never left the white room, that somehow he's still there? I mean, after watching the revolutions trailer, it discredits it....but still. What if?

Lann Kirauc

May 21st, 2003, 12:42:46 AM

Originally posted by Zasz Grimm
My friend Chris and I just got back from seeing the movie once more, he's gone, but perhaps I thought I would relay a thought before I went to bed.

After watching it again, Chris suggested something to me that I could put out of my mind. I don't think it is really so, but what if?

What if when Neo went to see the Architect...he never left? That he never left the white room, that somehow he's still there? I mean, after watching the revolutions trailer, it discredits it....but still. What if?

That could be but I feel it is a terrible direction to go with. And create more question than answers. But with what happened at the end before Neo went into a coma, it pretty much puts into doubt what is physical reality and what is purely virtual.

Figrin D'an

May 21st, 2003, 01:17:52 AM

Actually, the video game, Enter the Matrix, sheds some light on what has happened to Neo at the end of the film.

Lilaena De'Ville

May 21st, 2003, 02:27:07 AM

I'm not going to play it. What does it show about it?

Zasz Grimm

May 21st, 2003, 06:09:29 AM

True, but it was basically just a what if type thing.

He and I discussed alot of things, that's all I had felt like posting. :)

And yeh, what does the game say?

ReaperFett

May 21st, 2003, 06:25:56 AM

Got to love that. If you dont play games, you dont know what is fully happening :)

Oh, for those wondering about Mr Tank:

Actor Marcus Chong has sued the makers of The Matrix for allegedly reneging on a promise to recast him as a freedom fighter in the 1999 sci-fi thriller's two sequels, including recent blockbuster The Matrix Reloaded. The lawsuit, filed on Friday in Los Angeles Superior Court, accuses Warner Bros, parent company AOL Time Warner and the film's producers of breaching their 1998 oral agreement and a 2000 contract to revive his character Tank in the two sequels, and of slandering him. Chong, 35, also accused the filmmakers of "intentionally publishing numerous false statements that he was a terrorist," and of conspiring to blackball him in Hollywood. Film industry sources say the actor made repeated phone calls of a harassing nature to the filmmakers after his salary demands were not met. Tank was subsequently written out of the sequels and replaced with a character named Link. A Warner Bros spokesman and a spokeswoman for writer-directors Andy Wachowski and Larry Wachowski declined to comment on the pending litigation.

ReaperFett

May 21st, 2003, 03:59:50 PM

I just had a thought. When Neo was dumped from The Matrix, the hovercraft had to save him, right?

Now, the rebels want to shut down the Matrix.

And billions will suddenly all come out.

...who is going to save all of them? :)

Oh, and just watched the world premiere of the latest ANimatrix short, Final flight of the Osiris. Spoilers follow.

The animation is very Final Fantasy-esque, which is nice.

Starts with a sword fight where both combatants end up in their underwear. And the slow motion male chest and female butt shots almost felt as if the animators were going "Look, we can do CGI chests and butts!".

Then shows the Osiris, showing them see all the Snetinels heading for Zion. One girl escapes into the Matrix to warn them, while the ship tries to fight the Sentinels off.

Girl does a load of acobatics to drop of a building, whilke the crew starts being picked off by the Sentinels, bfore disabling the ship, sending it crashing to the ground.

Girl drops a package nto a mail box, a message, as we see the other combatant in the original sword fight's last stand. Ship blows up, girl in Matrix dies.

to be honest, it felt like they were just showing off SFX. Not a patch on Detective Story.

Darth007

May 21st, 2003, 05:23:14 PM

That's a good point Fett. I was trying to come up with an easy explanation but just deleted it lol. I can't figure out how that will happen.

ReaperFett

May 21st, 2003, 05:35:34 PM

It leads me to believe that it wont :)

Figrin D'an

May 21st, 2003, 09:26:31 PM

In the game, there is a scene in which Niobe visits the Oracle (in which her change in appearance is also discussed... ie. not being Gloria Foster). In the conversation, the Oracle divulges that Neo is, in essence, trapped in-between worlds. It's a little vague (naturally), but it would seem that maybe he didn't actually leave the Matrix entirely after meeting the Architect and saving Trinity.

I just had a thought. When Neo was dumped from The Matrix, the hovercraft had to save him, right?

Now, the rebels want to shut down the Matrix.

And billions will suddenly all come out.

...who is going to save all of them?

I think the idea/hope is that Neo would crash the system so badly that the machines tied into it would shut down as well. So, without the machines to regulate the mechanics of the system, the recently awakened humans wouldn't be "dumped." like Neo was.

Just a possibility, though.

ReaperFett

May 22nd, 2003, 07:34:40 AM

Right, let me get some things said straight away:

-I still dont think Matrix was sequel-worthy
-Neo flying sucks
- Reeves still cant act, Fishbourne was touch and go, Weaving and Moss were great.

Film starts well, and continues to be good until Zion. Then we get a speech so cheesy the makers of Independence Day would sue, a dance scene where I nearly dozed off and a sex scene that just didnt feel right. And anyway, why was this such a big thing? They sleep in the same bed all the time!

Leave Zion, Neo goes to Oracle, some good scenes. Fight with SMith STARTS good. The fights were a vast improvement this time. Now I felt the SFX was there just to aid the fight. Indeed, of the first three fights there was barely any. But once Neo picked the signpost up, it got back into dumb territory for me. Everythign was slowed it seemed. And why he didnt just fly is beyond me.

Film picks up once more, until we meet a man so French you expect him to wear a beret and onions, and tell Neo his mother smelt of elderberries. And we get the "intellegent" dialogue, which to me is just a set of riddles and long words. Seriously, did EVERY sentence need the Thesaurus guys? Then we got the fight, which was back to the SFX over substance.

On to the car chase. It isnt the best car chase ever, Ronin whups it badly. But it was good non the less, except for the Ghosts, who somehow manage to die despite being able to turn into ghosts?

and the rest of the film was good, until Neo met the Architecht, who sure makes a finger licking good Matrix! And it was back to riddles, technobabble, gobbldegook and Thesaurus exerts.

Revolutions trailer missed the totally over the top laugh. I cried :(

So this film was.......reasonably good. Borderline on average and quite good. I fail to see all this deep meaningfulness everyone else seems to see, but I enjoyed it. And hey, better than the original.

But compared to the other release this month? X2 destroys it. Dodge this bub :D

Dutchy

May 22nd, 2003, 01:32:19 PM

I agree with ReaperFett very much.

Reloaded didn't feel like a Matrix movie for a large part, where the first movie did from start to finish. I thought it was an uneven movie. Some awesome scenes, but they lasted way too short, in total. I really didn't care about all the Zion scenes.

All in all I'd give it a B-, barely.

Gurney Devries

May 22nd, 2003, 01:58:35 PM

What if when Neo went to see the Architect...he never left? That he never left the white room, that somehow he's still there? I mean, after watching the revolutions trailer, it discredits it....but still. What if?I've heard this theory before and it just doesn't work for me. Too many things happened independently of Neo for it to all be "fake".

Also, I really hope that they don't re-cast the Oracle for the next movie. The lady they have stand-in for her in the Enter the Matrix game is ATROCIOUS. Possibly the worst actress I've ever seen in my life. I was thinking that, since she's just a program, maybe they could have her shown outside of the Matrix as a machine in the next movie. Or maybe have her contact whoever she needs to talk to indirectly. But I will be instantly disappointed with the movie if they use the same actress they had for the game.

Figrin D'an

May 22nd, 2003, 11:22:14 PM

After seeing the film for a second time, I feel prepared to write a more complete review than the few random thoughts I've tossed out thusfar. And because, as we all know, my opinion is so valued by all... :rolleyes

Onto the review...

Trying to completely judge this movie is kind of impossible. Let's face it... it's half of one 5 hour film, with a 6 month intermission. There are things with which I was not completely satisfied, but as it's possible that such things will be resolved by the upcoming "The Matrix: Revolutions," some such opinions may change later this year.

First things first... I had fun watching it, and the subsequent discussions have added to it's entertainment value, at least for me. I've enjoyed reading different ideas on the possible progression of the story. It's just plain fun to postulate about that kind of stuff.

The early stages of the film moved slowly. Nearly everything that took place in Zion could have been trimmed for the sake of better pacing, particularly the cave gathering sequence. Morpheus speech, while cheesy, functioned as decent setup. The dancing segement was too long, though. It could have been trimmed to about 30 seconds, and still be effective and spliced with the Neo/Trinty love scene. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the references made by that scene are either going to be seen by a viewer immediately or not at all. It was a nice touch of symbolism, though, as was Neo and Trinty together under an arch.

The long expositions made by the Zion Councilor, Agent Smith, the Merovingian, etc. bothered me less in the second viewing. Perhaps because I knew what to expect. The Architect's conversation with Neo was just as interesting the second time around. Much of it is laced with double meanings. How much of it is true and how much is calculated manipulation is still impossible to determine, though. The action sequences were generally good. Neo's fight scenes had little sense of urgency, though. A drawback of knowing that he is unmatched inside the Matrix, I suppose. Some of the CG in the "Attack of the Smith Clones" battle looked... bad. Sorry... When you use the bullet time effect with that much CG in a scene, it makes it really easy to see how fake it looks. The other fights were good.. The car chase was very well executed... it was the highlight action aspect of the film for me.

Let's talk philosophy... now, I'm not going to repeat all of the little things I've already mentioned, for both the sake of brevity and that, if you haven't already read about or noticed them, it's better to discover them on your own. Needless to say, there are a lot of fun (some obvious and some subtle) little references to Greek mythology, the works of Plato, numerology of both biblical and secular significance, Gnosticism, Buddism and, in something that I believe will be played out in the final chapter, the writings of Issac Asimov. All of that being said... the "depth" of this film is very much a function of what the viewer wants to believe is present... ie. individual understanding distorts actual depth of content in favor of percieved depth of content. Those whom say that the film is mearly an action film using a clever plot device either lack the ability to see beyond the obvious, or simply choose not to see it. At the other end of the spectrum, those that profess that the film is "incredibly deep" and proclaim it to be a triumph of critical examination of the human condition do so either because they don't really understand what is contained therein and don't want to be left out of the conversation, or because they are blinded by the aformentioned "fun references" and believe that to be the "amazing depth." Or they toked it up before entering the theatre (which given some of the morons with whom I shared a screening last week, would not surprise me in the least). But, I digress...

Does the film have "depth?" Sure it does. But, IMO, rather than being "really really deep", I find it to have a bit of depth from a broad base of subject matter. I guess, in short, I'm trying to say that the answer lies somewhere in between rantings of the naysayers and ravings of the fanboys.

So... where does all this leave my overall impression of the film?

Well, I've seen it twice... that should say something. I still feel the first film is a superior product, for the rough edges and grit it possessed that it's succesor lacks most of the time, if for nothing else. I wasn't disappointed though, because I didn't expect a Second Coming (pun very much intended), like some did. I would have been happy with just the first film. For a sequel, Reloaded is better than many, but is far from a great film. Perhaps viewed in total with Revolutions, thus removing some of the middle movie syndrome, it could be more appreciated.

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 09:51:30 AM

Just some more ENter the Matrix bits:

The Ones key can only be used once, don't think this was said in the movie.

I doubt Perwhatsherface's kiss with Neo means anything, as she does that to EVERYONE who wants something from her :)

"Or I could beat it out of you"
"That would be good too. But a kiss with suffice" or similar :)

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 10:02:37 AM

Oh, and DO NOT LOOK AT ANY NEWS OR INFORMATION ON THE MATRIX ONLINE GAME. It has a Revolutions spoiler.

Gurney Devries

May 23rd, 2003, 10:47:48 AM

Do you mean, the fact that the Matrix still exists post-movies?

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 11:07:33 AM

Yes, but dont you think you should hide that incase someone accidently presses it? ;)

Oh, and back to Enter the Matrix story additions Niobe's craft wasnt going to be involved in Zions defense, as the commander had convinced the council it was too small.

Oh, and what Figrin says is HALF rightIf you play as GHost, he goes to see The Oracle instead. Starts the same, talking about why she changed, some children and all. We then learn, if you remember previous convos, that GHost loves Trinity "As much as she loves another", but the Oracle told him she will only ever love him as a brother (She calls him brother when they fight earlier).

Oh, and then Agent Smith steps out in the white corridor, not expecting him. I laughed :)

Figrin D'an

May 23rd, 2003, 01:19:44 PM

Originally posted by ReaperFett

Oh, and what Figrin says is HALF rightIf you play as GHost, he goes to see The Oracle instead. Starts the same, talking about why she changed, some children and all. We then learn, if you remember previous convos, that GHost loves Trinity "As much as she loves another", but the Oracle told him she will only ever love him as a brother (She calls him brother when they fight earlier).

I have yet to play though the game as Ghost, but it would make sense that something similar would happen with his character. Good info to know, though.

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 01:27:53 PM

I know know how far the two deviate ingame, but theres obviously going to be some changes. I doubt Trinity would Call Niobe brother ;)

Figrin D'an

May 23rd, 2003, 01:38:45 PM

Originally posted by ReaperFett
I know know how far the two deviate ingame, but theres obviously going to be some changes. I doubt Trinity would Call Niobe brother ;)

True...

But then again, I didn't expect to see Persephone and Niobe get into a deep tongue-infused kiss, either.

;)

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 01:43:33 PM

...I am SO replaying this game! :eek

Still think they should have done a bit of role reversal in that scene in the movie. "You know Neo, I'd have pointed a gun at her for suggesting doing that with you" "Sorry Trinity, it's the only way she'll help" :)

Darth Viscera

May 23rd, 2003, 04:57:47 PM

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
True...

But then again, I didn't expect to see Persephone and Niobe get into a deep tongue-infused kiss, either.

;)

then again...I guess I could try and progress in that game. Is it a video cutscene or what?

Figrin D'an

May 23rd, 2003, 05:01:14 PM

Originally posted by Darth Viscera
then again...I guess I could try and progress in that game. Is it a video cutscene or what?

Yes. It's part of the actual film footage that was put into the game.

Darth Viscera

May 23rd, 2003, 05:29:34 PM

Nope, I don't have to play the video game to watch it. My curiosity touched off a search of all the cutscenes, and I saw it. You can download the kiss part from me here (http://home.covad.net/~wlabiche/g40_n_kiss.avi) , it's 500KB. You need to download the latest version of the DivX codec to play it, and there's no audio because I couldn't find a way to extract that.

It's pretty PG-rated kissing. Niobe manages to maintain her look of indifference. You don't really see tongues infusing, but Persephone sure does look gorgeous in that dress with the weird wing things sticking out on the sides.

Droo

May 23rd, 2003, 05:33:39 PM

I'm not going to make a review of it until after my second viewing which will be on Sunday. I was very conflicted after seeing it Wednesday night and the more I think about the themes and philosphy in Reloaded the more I appreciate them and the final product overall. But I must admit that I think it has one of the best one-liners in any film of recent memory:

"French is the best language to swear in...(stream of French curses)...it's like wiping your <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont> with silk."

I could've wet myself laughing at that one!

Zasz Grimm

May 23rd, 2003, 07:52:47 PM

Originally posted by Darth Viscera
Nope, I don't have to play the video game to watch it. My curiosity touched off a search of all the cutscenes, and I saw it. You can download the kiss part from me here (http://home.covad.net/~wlabiche/g40_n_kiss.avi) , it's 500KB. You need to download the latest version of the DivX codec to play it, and there's no audio because I couldn't find a way to extract that.

It's pretty PG-rated kissing. Niobe manages to maintain her look of indifference. You don't really see tongues infusing, but Persephone sure does look gorgeous in that dress with the weird wing things sticking out on the sides.

Good googamuga!

:)

:: Claps for Viscera ::

I had to go to doom9 to get the codecs and such. But I got lost by all the other things they had, that called for me to download, which I did.

;)

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 08:18:16 PM

Zasz Grimm

May 23rd, 2003, 08:30:13 PM

Fett and I actually agree on something...

...Wait, we've agreed out entire discussion thus far about Reloaded in AIM....

The world will end.

:)

ReaperFett

May 23rd, 2003, 08:31:02 PM

Not EVERYTHING, but most :)

Kelt Simoson

May 24th, 2003, 02:32:02 AM

One word that will review the whole movie for me in a single silible : Crap

The movie in my honest opinion once it got going after the first half an hour of hot, wet and dirty dancing in a cave, went speeding ahead and leaving the wacthers behind saying ; " what the HELL was that all about?!". I was left behind when they first arrived at Zion. The first hour or so i understood a good part of it up untill the twin building theme and the powerstation..i mean....."eh?"...this aritect guy...i mean...what in the sodding butt cheeks was that guy babberling about?...i didnt understand a bloody word that man was saying.....

yessssss i think i wll have to go see it again...though i admit the fighting areas of the movie were impressive.

The first movie was sensible and well put..this movie was off the rails and just to far out of the way....

Vega Van-Derveld

May 24th, 2003, 11:03:55 AM

I saw it today and I thought for what it was it was quite good.

The fight scenes were impressive, the chases were exciting - but there did seem to be some needless dragging of certain scenes i.e the dance, the beginning (with trinity falling), both of which I felt went on a little too long to keep me really interested in what was going on. The Twins also seemed a bit wasted. I thought they were going to have a larger part and be quite interesting, but it looks like they got destroyed.

The plot was just confusing really, and seemed like it was trying to incorporate far too much into one movie.

Zasz Grimm

May 24th, 2003, 11:08:41 AM

I truthfully don't see how one could struggle with such scenes. I can understand The architect, I mean, the TV screens distracted me, especially when they were Neo moving and the heads twitching.

It wasn't that deep!

Easy to understand, it was.

:)

Darth007

May 24th, 2003, 11:11:58 AM

yeah it was pretty easy stuff. And if you go back and really watch the first movie(looking for symbols, foreshadows, phrases, whatnot) it answered a lot of my questions.

Vega Van-Derveld

May 24th, 2003, 11:12:32 AM

To me the architect might as well have been speaking Russian. I might just be intellectually inferior or something but I was having a hard time following what he was trying to say to begin with. Good job Neo is so stupid that he had to spell it out for him.

JediBoricua

May 24th, 2003, 11:31:47 AM

Finnally saw, and like many here I mostly enjoyed it.

Action was great. The story line was good and the plot twists were well thought of. But the acting and the script sucked! The fights were great, but they lacked the poetry of the first movie.

Also the music, Zion, and all the useless scenes that were just there to say, look what we can do! ruined the experience for me. Please someone get Rumsfeld to unplug that french program!

So I give it a C+.

Gurney Devries

May 24th, 2003, 11:35:15 AM

Sorry, there's just no way you can claim that the architect was "easy to understand". I think I grasped everything he was saying, but that doesn't make it "easy". His dialogue was needlessly convoluted, his words ran together and he never paused to give you time to digest what he was saying.

It's not what he's saying that's difficult to understand, but how he's saying it. If you try to argue otherwise, you're lying.

Zasz Grimm

May 24th, 2003, 11:40:46 AM

When I said it was easy, I mean the movie...as a whole. But that of course, is my opinion.

And no, I didn't find the Architect EASY to understand, but I understood it. I was easily distracted by that scene, merely because of the TV's. So therefore, I'm not lying?

JediBoricua

May 24th, 2003, 11:46:07 AM

Well for your aid here is the complete transcript of the convesation between Neo and the Architect.

Architect: Hello, Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human; ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuallity of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden asciduously avoided it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably...here.

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting...that was quicker than the others.

(TV "Neo"s:
Others [how many others?] what others? answer my question!)

Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. (Debe tener muchos siglos de antiguedad) I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.

(Tv Neos:
5 ones before me? 4...3..2.. what are you talking about? There are only 2 possible explanations, either no one told me....)

Neo: ...or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic--creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

(Tv Neos:
You can't contol me!
I'm gonna smash the wall
I'll ****** kill you!
etc..)

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent.

Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art...flawless, sublime. And triumphed equally only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus. I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another--An intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only awar e of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly (el 1% de los humanos que resistian o rechazaban la Matriz, la maxima manifestación de esa 'anomalia sistemica' siendo el individuo conocido como "The One"), that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed--its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated.

Neo: Bull****
(TV Neos:
Bull****!
Bull****!
Bull****!)

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured...this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent

Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. (Por lo tanto, la función basica del "One" es perpetuar el ciclo de "reboot" o "reloading" de la Matriz) After which, you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals--16 females, 7 male--to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world.
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication--a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific -- vis a vie...love.

Neo: Trinity.

Architect: Appropos ("by the way", I guess), she entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own.

Neo: No...

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end.
There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your Species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I can see the chain-reaction--the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason--an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth...she is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

Neo exits out of the left door.

That should explain a couple of things. I really liked this scene, will all the monitors and the differente Neos. BTW, doesn't the architect resemble the KFC colonel?

Vega Van-Derveld

May 24th, 2003, 11:58:28 AM

BTW, doesn't the architect resemble the KFC colonel?

LOL! We said that after we came out too.

"Neo, not only did I create the Matrix ... but I also created the best fried chicken in all the land!"

ReaperFett

May 24th, 2003, 12:04:37 PM

Said in my review :)

And remember, Neo CANT meet him again unless something big happens

It's not what he's saying that's difficult to understand, but how he's saying it. If you try to argue otherwise, you're lying.
Wow, that is open minded of you :|

Gurney Devries

May 24th, 2003, 12:19:33 PM

:lol Every person I've talked to refers to the Architect as "the Colonel". Finger-licking good psuedo-philosophy.
Wow, that is open minded of you Yes. Because, speaking from a technical standpoint, his grammar, word-usage and nuances of speech make him difficult to understand. It's not something that can be argued. His speech could have been put in much more simple terms.

JediBoricua

May 24th, 2003, 12:33:56 PM

But if you don't put him in that matter how are you going to project his obvious sense of superiority over humans and Neo and his quest for perfection.

What can I say, I like high brow, sophisticated villains. Add the appearance of the Colonel and you have me sold!

It was my favorite scene from the movie.

ReaperFett

May 24th, 2003, 12:35:12 PM

Was he wearing a white suit? I forget :)

And I will give you the simple terms thing.

Darth007

May 24th, 2003, 12:55:55 PM

Yeah I just read that script and there's nothing there that I didn't pick up when I watched it.

The monitors in the background of Neo's predacessors was neat and did distract me, but I understood it.

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

The thing is, the Architect designed the Matrix to be perfect, to be a mold of his perception of perfection. He says that Neo's love for Trinity is blinding him from the fact that she is going to die. However Neo see's past that, and is able to revive her. This is definately the turning point and must have done something to offset the course of actions for the Matrix.

Zasz Grimm

May 24th, 2003, 01:01:10 PM

Script? I require link.

Script Pleth.

:p

lol.

ReaperFett

May 24th, 2003, 06:50:59 PM

Oh, because I do it for EVERY movie I see in the cinema this year:

BEST FILM
7. The Tuxedo
6. The Two Towers
5. Johnny English
3.= Matrix Reloaded
3.= Equilibrium
2. X2
1. Daredevil

BEST ACTOR
Affleck (Daredevil)

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR
Farrell(Daredevil)/McKellan(X2)/Cumming(X2)

BEST ACTRESS
Garner(Daredevil)/Moss(Matrix Reloaded)

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS
Janssen(X2)

BEST MUSIC/SCORE
Daredevil

BEST SONG
Bring me to life(Daredevil)

BEST ACTION
Daredevil/Equilibrium/X2/Matrix Reloaded (It's a big tie :))

BEST SFX
X2

Darth007

May 24th, 2003, 09:02:21 PM

jeez fett you actually like those comic book movies and you rip on the matrix? :lol

Gurney Devries

May 24th, 2003, 10:14:17 PM

Fett and I seem to be the only people who enjoyed Daredevil. :) In fact, I liked it a whole lot more than the Matrix Reloaded. I'd also put Equilibrium above M:R, as well.

Darth007

May 24th, 2003, 10:53:36 PM

oh god, please be joking >_<

all those movies have the most blatant ripoffs of things from The Matrix.

Dasquian Belargic

May 25th, 2003, 04:53:12 AM

all those movies have the most blatant ripoffs of things from The Matrix.

Examples please :)

Loki Ahmrah

May 25th, 2003, 07:09:32 AM

I saw TTT in December so I don't include it in this years films as such. I would put X2 first, Matrix Reloaded second and Daredevil third. Daredevil was excellent but not as good as the other two.

Dutchy

May 25th, 2003, 07:20:26 AM

Question: Are the French guy and woman older versions of Neo and Trinity?

Darth007

May 25th, 2003, 07:30:17 AM

Daredevil: When he's able to "see" when it rains and whatnot = Neo becoming the One and seeing things in "matrix mode" with all the green letters scrollin down.

Equilibrium: Eh, just about the whole movie.

Warlock

May 25th, 2003, 07:31:16 AM

Originally posted by Darth007
Daredevil: When he's able to "see" when it rains and whatnot = Neo becoming the One and seeing things in "matrix mode" with all the green letters scrollin down.

Seems a little like grasping at straws for similarities to me.

EDIT - And yes Equilibrium was similar in some aspects; the dress code, the futuristic society, etc.

ReaperFett

May 25th, 2003, 08:45:35 AM

all those movies have the most blatant ripoffs of things from The Matrix.

Dark City, Blade, John Woo films....guess what, Matrix takes from them all! :)

Daredevil is from a comic. I vaguely remember a scene in which he was in rain which helped his radar sense. This being a comic that has been around for FORTY YEARS!

And Equilibrium was apparently very similar to some book someone once wrote, Orwell I believe. The action was straight from Hong Kong movies. Or to put another way, Equilibrium and Matrix stole their fights from the same source most likely. There was a distinct lack of wire fighting in Equilibrium. So, we' re left with a man in a longcoat, running around with a gun in either hand, killing swarms of mooks. Which John Woo movies do, which the Wachowski brothers love.

Never thought I'd see the day The Matrix is seen as original :)

And as an aside, I'd probaby say Equilibrium is the better film, but I haven't seen that for months. Have to get the DVD imported I suppose :)

My list btw is for films I saw for the first time in the cinema this year. So, due to me not being able to see TTT for two weeks +, it became a 2003 film :)

Jinn Fizz

May 25th, 2003, 09:04:07 AM

Originally posted by Gurney Devries
Fett and I seem to be the only people who enjoyed Daredevil. :) In fact, I liked it a whole lot more than the Matrix Reloaded.

Hey, I liked Daredevil too! :)

I'll go ahead and put my couple o' credits in here about Reloaded. I finally saw it yesterday, and personally, I was disappointed. Very disappointed. I thought it was incredibly dull up until Neo went and saw The Oracle, but even after that, it seemed to follow a predictable pattern...sit around and talk for a while, and make sure every 10 minutes or so, you throw in an action scene with lots of slo-mo and bullet time. And just how many darn slo-mo angles can we see Neo from anyways? :p

For me, with the exception of the freeway scene, none of the action scenes were exciting at all. They seemed overly choreographed, and they went on for too long. My biggest disappointment was the scene of Neo versus the hundred Agent Smiths...I had really been looking forward to that scene, and it ended up going on too long and looking incredibly ridiculous. :(

It was like the Wachowski brothers are cool, they know they're cool, and they tried to be as cool as possible, and they came off looking completely uncool, you know what I mean?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the first one and was really looking forward to this one. I'm completely surprised that I ended up being bored to the point of complete detachment during it, and can sum up my reaction with the simple phrase, "I didn't like it." :(

One of the biggest disappointments I've experienced at the movies in a long, long time. :(

Okay, flame away! :D

Ryla Relvinian

May 25th, 2003, 10:22:50 AM

Dutchy: That's exactly what I thought! Especially the line that Persephone says, "He was more like you." in regards to the Merovingian. However, he says "I have survived your predecessors, I can survive you." Maybe that means he was the very first One? By getting re-absorbed into the matrix, he was allowed to live? I dunno, but both lines are quite interesting to me.

Marcus Telcontar

May 25th, 2003, 07:28:52 PM

I really want to see equilibrium... but it is NOT coming out here to Australia.

imported_J'ktal Anajii

May 26th, 2003, 04:07:29 AM

I saw Reloaded tonight, and it was blahse at best.

Really, JUST like the first one, it was half an hour too long. I don't need things explained to me three times, thank you, especially not in soliloquy-esque form. And hearing the word "ergo" twice in two minutes really pissed me off. I mean, come on, the script should have been a lot better. I could re-word half those lines, make them mean the same thing, and it would still sound a lot better.

The hundred Agent Smiths scene was a great disappointement. I could swear that they actualyl filmed Reeves fighting in the first movie, but it seems they are content to CGI the heck out fot hat fight, and only use real actors a quarter of the time. I'm sorry, that destroyed it for me. That, and that butt-ugly ground ripple before Neo takes off. Ugh, that was bad.

The acting was marginally better on Reeves' part in this one, but I felt everybody else was either trying too hard, or really didn't care at all. Fishburn's sleech in Zion to the crowd was horrid. I mean, it was TRIPE. Gah, I wish I had a remote so I could have fast forwarded through it. That, and the costume design blows for everybody in Zion. It seems only Bhuddist monks survived, and they became fashion designers. Only they weren't the talented Bhuddist monks, they were the half-blind and slightly retarted ones. I realize the lack of useable fabric, but, I really didn't need to see Fishburn's gut, or the nipples of half the girls in the crowd.

Oh, yes, on the scene ripped straight from the end of <u>Brave New World</u>, the "Orgy Porgie" scene, I found the dance to be utterly useless, offensive, and a waste of my time and not deserving to belong in this movie. I'm so glad we're saving the human race who only seem to belive in getting their groove on in a horribly ill-coordinated mosh pit of scantilly-clad people in their mid 20's. Do no old pople go to this "temple" thing? Or young kids? I'd hope not. And, I'm not even going to get into the Neo/Trinity porn flick. That was just not even remotely necessary, and I must say it did nothing for me except to make me examine more closely the amount of popcorn left in my bucket. The whole speech-dance-sex scene just didn't fit for me. Or the rest of the audience from the sounds of it.

But, I did actually like a few things about the movie. Like, the racial stereotypes, those are always funny. And the cars and motorcycles and explodey stuff. Bullet -time still annoys me, but, it was better. The fights were okay, though not terribly thrilling, in my book.

I do have three major gripes abotu one of the fights, though. On the truck-top battle between Morhpeous and the agent, there are three things related to that katana that truly disturbed me. Four, actually.

First: Unless he stabbed it into something heavy, it should have tilted and dropped him on the ground when he tried to stand on it on the side of the truck. Not to mention that he probably would have simply snapped the blade in half. Katanas are strong front to back, but not side to side.

Second: in the long rotating shot that shows the whole truck from btoh sides in one continuous shot when the agent first gets on, the katana is missing. So is the hole it punched. Game glitch? You decide. I think it was a but of continuity error.

Third: when he goes to grab it out of the side again, it has magically moved about five feet up teh side of the truck, and also changed fromt he front end to the back, just for convenience. Unless of course he stabbed two swords in, and I didn't see. If that is true, then there should ahve been two swords sticking out in the afforementioned error.

Foruth: The left hand. When he pulled the katana out and beckoned to the agent, he held the sword in his left hand. No. No no no. Not only is that not Japanese tradition, but, it is wrong on two other levels too. First, he was on the left side of the truck, to the ege. If he had attacked properly with it, he should ahve stepped off the edge of the truckl as he swung it to the right. . And, he also would need to swap hands over to get his right hand onto the spot his left was if he were to properly use the thing in the first place. Right hand goes on top, left hand all the way qat the bottom, with a spave between your hands. That's the proper grip. There was no such thing as a left-handed Samurai. You were tought to be right-handed if you were left-handed. The katana is the samurai's sword, and for knowing all about Karate and Jujutsi and Ninjitsu, Morpheous should have known that. It would ahve been simple enough for him to take another step back and put it in his right hand. Though it seems small, this is one of my biggest gripes with the movie.

Wait, no, got another one. In the KFC television room, many of the screens were shoing the same image when they were supposed to be random, or the smae bits would loop. For the amount of money that went into the produdction of this flick, I would expect to see all different images on those screens. It's not that hard, folks. Oh, yes, I noticed this because the Colonel was boring the heck out of me by telling the same thing three times, and not getting any more interesting.

Well, here's my review: Not bad, but, I should have waited for DVD. Popcorn was tasty, though.

--EDIT--

Wait! No, I remembered more!

The sound effects. Boy oh boy did I have some issues witht eh sound effects. Mainly, the, "bowling pins" sound effect in the 100 Agent Smiths scene was a bit cornt, and whenever somebodyt even moved a knife or blade or remotely pointy things, there was this metallic zipping sound. In the big sword/spear/hammer/mace/sai fight, I couldn't stand all the zipping. Some of those weapons don't make zips like that, and some make them at lower picthes. Gah, drove me nuts hearing sounds that shouldn't have been there.

And again, on the freeway. When Morpheous pulls the katana the first time to deal witht he Twins in their Escalade, it makes a scratcky metal drawing sound as he's turning it over in the air. But, the sound didn't line up with him drawing it, it lined up with appearing on the screen. So, evidently the screen makes noise when blades appear. The same zippy metal grinding sound was present throughout the truck-top fight with it, too; again out of place.