Guilty?

[Heero Luna]

Being a life long star wars fan, I've never come close to finding another Sci fi/Fantasy world that comes close to the sw galaxy in regard to capturing my imagination. That was until lately. Having been completely blown away by The Lord of the Rings films, I recently purchased a copy of JR's complete novel. I started reading it with the intention of stoping at the end of TTT, so as not to ruin the final film. But once there I couldn't stop. So I carried right on through to the end in record time(2 weeks and 1 day from start to finnish...well i was impressed:smokin )

Anyway now I find myself looking upon the sw films as a bit childish. The Lord of the rings has taken away my baby...what to do? The guilt...the guilt.

[Zeke]

Commit Seppuku. That's about all you can do.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Hari kari?

:p

[Kwiet Ideya]

They're about the same, I think. Either way, this betrayal cannot go unpunished! >D

[Marcus Telcontar]

Give in to the Tolkien Side. Once it has you, it shall dominate your geekiness forever!

[Dae Jinn]

Be both. :) (even tho I prefer LOTR....;))

[Kwiet Ideya]

BUUUURN THE TRAITORS! :evil

[Figrin D'an]

There's plenty of fandom to go around for both of them. I've been a Star Wars fan since I was about 4. I first read The Lord of the Rings when I was in middle school. I've been a fan of both for quite a while. I don't see a conflict at all. :)

They're both great stories, and both are very dear to me. I really, really like Peter Jackson's film adaptation, although the book will always be better (that's not a cut against the films... it's just the nature of book-to-film translations... I think Jackson is doing about the best that can be expected from an adaptation.) I grew up watching the original Star Wars trilogy... simply put, one of the greatest stories in film history.

Trying to compare them and decide which is better is an exercise in futility, IMO. No offense, but those who do such have lost sight of what makes them great works of art.

[Admiral Lebron]

Star Wars wins in my book. Lord of the Rings was a book first and waited many years for the right technology to be available to make it into a good film.

[Helenias Evenstar]

If you were trying argue a comparision between the old trilogy and the as yet not fully released LOTR trilogy.... That is a good debate of which I am undecided. Says I, after watching all three of the OT today.

If the comparision is to the as yet unfinished Star Wars Prequel trilogy - so far, LOTR is so far ahead in all facets, it is hard to believe Ep III could possibly redeem and catch up. The Prequels are very bad - no amount of flashy bits and Yoda fighting can hide that.

[JMK]

The comparisons of these 2 sagas are going to come whether they're deserved or not. Personally, SW is my favorite, but that's mostly because of the Original Trilogy. If the prequels were starting now at the same time as LotR, I would probably be more of a LotR movie fan too. I find the LotR movies more engrossing, but then again Lebron makes a good point, these movies were MANY years in the making. Lucas had the foresight to create a trilogy just as good 25 years ago with much more limited technology. All I can say is that I'm glad things have unfolded the way they have.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with Figrin, here there is plenty of fandom to do go around, I am a Star Wars fan, Harry Potter fan and LOTR fan, I keep all three seperate and don't compare any of them.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I tried to watch TPM today. First time in about a year.

I actually defended that crap? TPM is NOT a good movie. It's a sad, sad joke. Least, I hope its a joke. Cause it's not funny to me!

I'm afraid the origional trilogy really has stood up well over time and even now, is incredibly good and holds up strongly. TPM has not and it's just getting worse. There is still much love for the OT. I spit on TPM and curse it's name now. It is NOT Star wars! It cant be!

-_-

LOTR and OT Star wars are right up there.

I really dont know why people say LOTR could only be made now - not true. It has comparably little tech, even if the tech it uses is startling. Gollum is just a work of genius. It's concieveable LOTR could have been done long ago and I'll point out there was an attempt at it in cartoon form. Which bombed. What LOTR succeeds is where TPM and AOTC fail - good old fashioned story, emotion and filming disciple and quality. LOTR had someone prepared to shoot well, design well, to write well and bring the whole lot together.

It's nto the tech LOTR was waiting for. It was the right director and team. It's hard to imagine anyone pulling off what Jackson Pls his team have.

[JMK]

What LOTR succeeds is where TPM and AOTC fail - good old fashioned story, emotion and filming disciple and quality. I agree with that, much moreso on TPM than AotC. I do think TPM is an 'old fashioned' story, but IMO it was severely lacking of any real emotion and other points that I won't get back into.

Have you seen that LotR cartoon?

[Heero Luna]

The LOTR cartoon is nasty. It oozes 70's french animation appeal, which isn't a very good thing to ooze, plus its incomplete.

[JMK]

Incomplete?

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

the cartoon version was terrible, Strider looked like an Indian, Glimi looked like a Viking and wasn't short, the orcs were just shadowy things that had no real form...I couldn't even watch the whole thing....

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by JMK
Have you seen that LotR cartoon?


Sadly... yes. The only good to come out of the Ralph Bakshi abomination was renewing peoples' interest in Tolkien's books. Beyond that... it's horrid. If you watch it closely, you can actually see the point at which the project started to run out of money... the animation gets more hurried and sloppy, and the story gets more rushed.



I agree with that, much moreso on TPM than AotC. I do think TPM is an 'old fashioned' story, but IMO it was severely lacking of any real emotion and other points that I won't get back into.


It's kind of amusing to think back to, say, Spring of 1999, before TPM opened, and examine our own points of view about the prequels then. There probably isn't a person here who wasn't convinced that they were going to be some of the greatest films of the past 20 years. Now, here we are, 4 years and 2 prequels later, and look how our opinions have changed. Some of those anti-Star Wars trolls that were around back in the day would be laughing their butts off were they around to see this.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I actually can still watch TPM I still like it, I actually like it better than ANH but that is just my opinion.

[Heero Luna]

Yes JMK. It was incomplete. The story ended at the battle of Helmsdeep. There was supposed to be a sequal but a mixture of the critics slamming it and a lack of money prevented it from being made. Probably for the best.

[Dae Jinn]

The Hobbit cartoon roxors though :uhoh Even if it is bad animation, or a weird style anyways...:lol

[JMK]

That's a bad rap for the cartoon. I don't think I'll ever bother spending the time on it then.

You're right Figrin, when the pictures and trailers for TPM were coming out, I was convinced it was going to be the best movie I had ever seen. A few short years later and my opinion has changed drastically.

[Heero Luna]

Please don't say I've brought about this Star Wars downer. The prequals aren't that bad afterall. Without them we wouldn't have the likes of Darth Maul and we probably wouldn't be chatting here as much as we do either.

Dae. Is there a hobbit cartoon?

[JMK]

Don't get me wrong, Star Wars is my baby, its just like when you have a child and their friend comes over and all of a sudden you wish your child could be as polite and smart as the guest. In this case LotR is the guest. :)

[Heero Luna]

And you start questioning the parenting methods you've believed in for 25 years...yeah I get it.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Heero Luna
Is there a hobbit cartoon?

Rankin and Bass did a cartoon version of the Hobbit in the late '70's, as well as a cartoon version of The Return of the King (yes, only The Return of the King... why? Who knows...)


http://us.imdb.com/Title?0077687


John Huston actually did the voice of Gandalf for it.

It's very much a kiddie cartoon, but it's still fairly entertaining.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Oh Lord, the LOTR cartoon. AGH! Now that IS extraordinarily bad! AVOID AT ALL COSTS!


It's kind of amusing to think back to, say, Spring of 1999, before TPM opened, and examine our own points of view about the prequels then. There probably isn't a person here who wasn't convinced that they were going to be some of the greatest films of the past 20 years. Now, here we are, 4 years and 2 prequels later, and look how our opinions have changed. Some of those anti-Star Wars trolls that were around back in the day would be laughing their butts off were they around to see this.

Were looking TPM in the hard cold light of day and time now, without the hype and passion of a new SW movie. Without tihnking about all those new and exciting bits and flashy sceces. I'm afraid TPM really is a "What was I thinking????" type of thing - why oh why did we think as we did? Drugs? Alcohol? Defending against trolls?

I think with me its simply my interest in movies picked up because of this board and my tastes broadened. I'd have never seen moives liek Memento or Signs if it wasnt for this place. Plus, I can definantly say what like I had for TPM went out the window when FOTR came out - cause it showed up in all the detail, what TPM lacked and could have been.

That's really what gets to me - TPM could have been something like FOTR. SW fans wanted something incredible. Hard not to be disappointed with the result. LOTR fans were just hoping FOTR wouldnt suck.

In the end, expectations and time with three excellent movies let TPM down. Dont get me wrong, the OT is still excellent and I love em. Just..... LOTR has come and done what the prequels should have done.

[Jedieb]

The last few weeks at my house have been pretty sweet. The boy has just started watching SW movies. He was into AOTC for awhile and then he discovered "Daddy's favorite," ESB. Now he's hooked. He's seen it around 10 times in the last couple of weeks. Sometimes, I wish that's where I wish I was in terms of TPM. I think I'd be more forgiving if I were as young as when I saw the OT. But still, TPM gave me the hanger doors opening to reveal Maul. It wasn't ALL bad. I guess 16 years was just too long to wait. I spent 16 years waiting for ESB Part Deux.

Which brings me to FOTR and TTT. I've loved both of these films. FOTR more than TTT I might add. I think that jaded teens or picky scifi fans who trash TPM are more than satisfied by Jackson's films. Throw in the Matrix as well. I just remember the OT was the coolest thing on the planet when I was a kid. But the prequels have one franchise after another to compete with these days.

Still, as much as I've enjoyed the LOTR movies, they still don't reach some of the highs that the prequels have reached. (Yoda & Dooku, Maul V. Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon). So it's a wash.

[Heero Luna]

I agree, excelent were the Maul and the Dooku duels.

Then I re-live the vision of the Gandalf/Balrog confrontation in my head and one of the best lines in film history. 'You shall not pass!'

I think that most of us don't want to like LOTR more than SW. So I think we shouldn't disect and compare them to much, as the results may be upsetting.

[Zeke]

'You shall not pass!'

One o' the best lines? Meh, I've heard better. Gandalf's whole last stand bit was horribly cliche to me. We've seen one guy sacrifice himself for the hero's party hundreds of times.

[Dae Jinn]

It's all part of the "Hero's Quest" which you learn about in high-school English, Zeke.

I liked the Hobbit cartoon, they sing in it. And it is a kiddie movie, but still...awesome! ;) :D

[Zeke]

I learned that in HIGH SCHOOL!? No wonder I don't like it! :lol

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Heero Luna
I think that most of us don't want to like LOTR more than SW. So I think we shouldn't disect and compare them to much, as the results may be upsetting.

I have to disagree, at least in respect to myself. I openly admit that I have enjoyed the first two LOTR adaptions than I have the first two Star Wars prequels. I have no qualms about that point of view. Many whom know me, know that none of films in either storyline are atop my All-Time Favorite Films list.

I think that trying nitpick apart the original Star Wars trilogy and Jackson's LOTR adaptation, to decide which is better, is virtually impossible. With the Star Wars prequels, it's a bit of a different situation. I didn't grow up with those films, as I did with the original trilogy and Tolkien's books... I can look at them more objectively. That's not to say that there aren't portions of the prequels that I have enjoyed... I had fun seeing both of them in the theatre, and I'm sure I'll have fun when Episode III opens two years from now.


Anyway... my point is... the comparisons will be made, because we as a society have an obsession with ranking things and wanting to know what is "#1." For me, it's pointless to do so. My opinions of each are too skewed by other factors.

[Dae Jinn]

It's the same basic story in SW, LotR and half the other movies out there :rolleyes.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Zeke
One o' the best lines? Meh, I've heard better. Gandalf's whole last stand bit was horribly cliche to me. We've seen one guy sacrifice himself for the hero's party hundreds of times.

"No I am your father!"

Aweful line when you think about it, but when you put it into the context, it gains a new meaning a depth/ I'm sure the unexpected father thing has been done plenty of times too. It is the manner of execution that makes that particlar one stand up above the rest.

Correct me if I'm wrong Zeke, but I thought you hadnt seen LOTR.

[Zeke]

I have seen LOTR. I haven't seen TTT.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Zeke
I have seen LOTR. I haven't seen TTT.


Dammit! Get it right!

LOTR is the whole story... the first part is FOTR, the second is TTT.


:p

;)

[Zeke]

::shrugs:: It's the same thing.

[Dae Jinn]

LMAO!

Have I told you how much you rock, Figgy? :D

Zeke, you're bias when it comes to LotR anything! No matter what anyone says, you'll say you hate it. So just say you hate it and go away! :mneh :lol

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

blah, there's always a movie that a person doesn't like, hell I thought the Ring was crap and not scary at all, and my customers loved it, everyone will have a different opinion....

[Zeke]

Zeke, you're bias when it comes to LotR anything! No matter what anyone says, you'll say you hate it.

I guess so. I liked FOTR when I saw it in theaters...but after that I found Fans, and then started hanging out with you and Marcus and all the other LOTR fanboys/fangirls, and got so sick of hearing it I've decided to hate it, just to spite you all. When the constant LOTR allusions and links and jokes and praise and general hype stops, I'll go secretly rent TTT and ROTK (No doubt it'll be long after ROTK hits DVD that all the hype falls to a suitable level) and watch and see what I missed. I did the same with the Matrix, just so you know.

[Dae Jinn]

Well, I'm just saying, :lol You know I wuvvle you, and will eventually tie you to a chair and watch all of LotR in one sitting :mischief

[Zeke]

So long as you pause every now and then to take me to the bathroom, and bring me a constant flow of food and drinks, I think I'll live.

[Figrin D'an]

It's just like the people that say "Star Wars" and are attempting to refer to Episode IV by itself, rather than the whole saga.

"What's your favorite Star Wars film?"

"Star Wars."

"Yeah, but which episode?"

"Star Wars."

"That's the name of the whole story. I want to know what your favorite part of the story is."

"Uhhh... Star Wars."

"You mean the first film? Episode IV?"

"Which one is Episode IV?"

"It's the first one that was made... back in 1977."

"Yeah, Star Wars... that's what I mean."

"Star Wars is the whole story... the first film was Episode IV. It's actually called "A New Hope."

"A New Hope? Which one is that? I've never heard of that one?"

"It's the first one that was made... back in 1977."

"Oh, so you mean Star Wars?"



This was the crux of an actual conversation I had with someone once... it went on, in circles, for 10 minutes. I walked away wishing I had access to a baseball bat.

[Zeke]

:lol That's horrible! I'm still in "there's only one movie of LOTR" mode since I haven't seen/acknowledged TTT in any way, other than to refer to Gollum as "that ugly baby...thing..." so thus the mislabeling.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol that's bad....

[Pilot Akito]

Then we need to tie Zeke down, make him watch TTT, and feed him day old Popcorn!


And Smeol is a lovable creature...in a Dirty Harry kind of way...

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

day old? o_O why?

[Pilot Akito]

Thats what most movie theater popcorn is.....
:p

j/k

[Heero Luna]

It's just like the people that say "Star Wars" and are attempting to refer to Episode IV by itself, rather than the whole saga.

Surely when someone tells you their favourite SW film is Star Wars, You know what they mean.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Heero Luna
Surely when someone tells you their favourite SW film is Star Wars, You know what they mean.


It doesn't matter that I can infer what they actually mean. It's the principle of the matter. "Star Wars" isn't the name of the Episode IV. "The Lord of the Rings" isn't the name of the first of Tolkiens book's, or the first film of Jackson's adaptation.


It's a pet peeve of mine.

[ReaperFett]

I don't think you can compare really, they're too different.




BUT, I would personally say FOTR EE is about as good as a SW movie. But FOTR is slightly under, and TTT is nowhere near.

[Heero Luna]

I know what your saying Figrin but ANH was commonly referred to as Star Wars for some 22 years. 'A New Hope' was merely a sub title that was rarely used until the prequals came into production. So a lot of fans will always call Ep 4 Star Wars.

[Jedieb]

ANH is always going to be referred to as Star Wars. Much more so than FOTR gets labeled as LOTR. SW wasn't even labeled ANH until the early 80's. For the fans it's convienient and we're use to calling it ANH. But for most casual moviegoers it's always going to be SW. I don't care what someone calls it really. They can label it whatever their heart desires.

[Oriadin]

I hate SW Vs LotR arguments, partly because everyone says the same things in every argument and partly because *I* cant help but post the same thing in every argument. :lol

I liked both LotR films and im looking forward to the last installment. Neither grabbed my attention like the SW prequals have. I was never brought up with the star wars movies. Id seen them but not in any order so I never fully understood the story. I heard that the prequals had begun production so found the time to watch all the OT movies one after another. They were obviously excellent.

Then came the Phantom Menace. First SW film id been able to see at the cinema and it blew me away! I was 16 at the time (I think!) and so the whole star wars thing for me was very new. I loved it to bits. I saw that film 11 times at the cinema. My second most viewed film at the cinema is only 5 to give you some comparison.

From that point on I was hooked. It was thanks to that film alone im the SW fan I am today and the sole reason I RP here (hope that doesnt put anyone off the film even more ;) )

Of all the people that come here saying how crap the prequals are, most of them went to see the OT at the cinema or were huge star wars fans before the prequals. It was new, it was exciting. Thats why you loved it. Same reason as to why people of my age group and my situation love the prequals. I dont think Lucas could have done anything to make the likes of Mark and Helen feel thrilled to be watching a SW prequal I really dont.

How many films can you think of where the 5th installment is just as popular as the first was? I cant think of a single one. Nothing even comes close to what star wars has achived as a collection of films.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is very true the only test coming up is the Harry Potter movies if they can make all of them it would be interesting to see how 4-7 do.

[Figrin D'an]

Like I said guys, it's a personal pet peeve. I know about the history of the title usage amongst the films, and I know how casual moviegoers regard the matter. I point it out when the situation presents itself, that's all.