Selective Service debate

[TheHolo.Net]

This only applies in the United States as far as I know.

I know its been true for a while now that women are allowed to be in combat situations in the armed services, be they Army, Air Force or whatever. That brings up a question in my mind being a man who at the age of 18 was required by federal law to register for selective service (ie " the draft").

Is the selective service program going to be changed to now, or has it been discussed in any of the debates in the past? Isn’t it only fair that selective service not be discriminatory based on gender since voluntary military service is non discriminatory now? Or is selective service as I knew it 16 years ago no more?

This issue had to be raised when the debates to allow women in combat were going on. I wonder what kind of justification was given that they are exempt from selective service? How can I explain to my son right before he turns 18 that he has to go register or face jail, while his sister isn't required to?

[imported_Eve]

I think women should be required to register too. There isn't a reason not to, unless women want to forego equal rights.

Women can handle the physical and mental stress of combat, beit that they are baby makers, so I don't see any argument that says women do not have to register.

[TheHolo.Net]

Cool, I agree except I would turn around your last statement just a little.

I don't see any argument that says women have to register.

While for men it is completely different. My son could be prosecuted by the federal government for not registering when he is of age, yet my daughter doesn't have to worry about it at all. Its just not right and puts parents that have to try and explain things to their children in a very odd place IMO.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

honestly I haven't heard talk of that in a long time, I'm wondering if it still exists, I know I sure as hell don't want it to still be....

[TheHolo.Net]

I recall seeing advertisments and comercial reminders to men of that age just a year or two ago, so I am almost certain it does.

I think the policy of selective service should either be dropped or made just as equal as regular military service.

[Logic]

It sure does. I got my little package of birthday gifts and found in with it a letter from my mother "Happy Birthday! Don't forget to go register for the draft!" Some birthday gift, huh?

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

honestly always thought of it as stupid, why should you have to go?

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Logic
It sure does. I got my little package of birthday gifts and found in with it a letter from my mother "Happy Birthday! Don't forget to go register for the draft!" Some birthday gift, huh? Doesn't it just suck that radicals, be they from equal rights activist groups or feminists fought to give women the same rights as men in military situations, yet they forgot to make the draft equal to? How fair is that?

Now to level with everyone, I'm at an age now where I would most likely not even be drafted if there was one, but I still feel strongly about the fairness of this policy.

[Charley]

I can't imagine the draft ever being reinstated again, but if it is, I think they should draw women from the pool, the same as men. There are only a few jobs out there in which most women cannot hack it (Such as the airborne). I'm not saying that a woman couldn't be a paratrooper, its just that I doubt the bureaucratic costs of getting those minute few amazons into the Airborne would produce a significant increase in effective fighting ability for said units. In other regards, however, I think we should make it as equal as possible.

Until then, I think we're doing just fine with our voluntary servicemen and servicewomen who do their jobs willingly.

[Logic]

Not fair at all, but what am I gonna do? Registering for it was alot like getting a shot, actually. Lots of "OMG, this is gonna suck" and fearful anticipation, then you get it done and it's like "That wasn't so bad, was it?" But if women are now legal for use in combat units (bad diction, I know, but I can't think of how else to say it), I'd expect them to be signing in on their 18th just like me.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
I can't imagine the draft ever being reinstated again, but if it is, I think they should draw women from the pool, the same as men...I agree that it probably isn't going to happen again, but still, fair and equal rights should really be considered in all aspects of it. If my son can go to jail for forgetting to register for the draft then my daughter should face the same possible outcome since either can volunteer to be in the military in any role.

BTW: I know you said that too, I'm just trying to soldify my thoughts on this so I can make some contacts to try and see this issue is addressed.

[Marcus Telcontar]

As I said in the other thread on this, at no time, under any circumstance should a person be drafted or required to register. It's always up to the person in question to decide if they fight or not.

In fact, I'm a bit amazed that you do have to register.

[TheHolo.Net]

Yes, my most recent thoughts posted in that other thread have led me to the conclusion that Selective Service registration is an immoral law.

[Marcus Telcontar]

You dont have to vote or register for that, yet you have to register for military service? Makes not a lot of sense to me.

Here, its the law you have to vote but are strictly volunteer for military. I think I prefer that.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Marcus Elessar
You dont have to vote or register for that, yet you have to register for military service? Makes not a lot of sense to me.

Here, its the law you have to vote but are strictly volunteer for military. I think I prefer that. People in the US are not required to register to vote, but 18 year old men are required by federal law to register with Selective Service (at any post office) within a strictly set period of time after their 18th birthday.

[Stardust]

If my memory serves me right, regrestering with the Selective Service does more then sign you up for the draft in the United States. It gives you access to finicial aid that can be used in college. It also will allow you to get a Government job here.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Stardust
If my memory serves me right, regrestering with the Selective Service does more then sign you up for the draft in the United States. It gives you access to finicial aid that can be used in college. It also will allow you to get a Government job here. Okay, but that has no bearing on why the selective service program is a sexist one that still only includes men. Hell, if thats true then there is even more reason to include women in the program.

[Navaria Tarkin]

A woman can still get those things without selective service. I should know :)

As someone that wanted to have a military career, I do believe that selective service is outdated and unnecessary. There are plenty of men and women that want to serve our country in the Armed Forces now-a-days that makes this law absolete. There really is no place for it.

Unless the world goes to hell and everyone has to fight anyway =\

[TheHolo.Net]

I'll post my thoughts from earlier (in another thread) that are leading me to question the ethics of the Selective service program so others can see some of my rationale:

Selective service is the program here in the US also known as "the draft", which can be equated to "forcing" someone into military service. Can't it be said that "forcing" someone into the military is no better than what the Feyadeen Sadam were doing early on in the recent Iraq war? The only real difference is the US could be doing it by "law" while the Feyadeen were doing it by immoral persuasion.

This thought leads me to believe that Selective Service = immoral, just like the Feyadeen's actions were immoral in Iraq. We are not really any different than them except prettying up pour government's actions with "law", a "law" which forces people to do something they may not want to.

I agree that there wold probably be enough willing people to back a cause if said cause was just and the need for more troops great, but I really am having serious doubts about the current and still valid law that will force my son to register with selective service when he turns 18, but not my daughter.

[AmazonBabe]

Uh, that made me do a double take... isn't this also in the other forum?

Why not merge the two and make a redirect or something?

[TheHolo.Net]

Because we have different people that frequent each forum and I wanted to get as good a feel for other people's opinions as I could. A re-direct would not be as effective as having two threads.

PS: I asked you a question in the other thread. :)

EDIT: I am answering your reply to my letting you know about the question within my own already made post so as to help avoid cluttering this thread with needless ones.

Thanks.

[AmazonBabe]

Going. :)

EDIT: I went, I saw, I replied. :thumbup

[Charley]

I definitely wouldn't argue against the draft on those points. The Fedayeen execute dissenters on the spot, in a repressive regime in which those that may fight have no chance for proper representation. We imprison draft-dodgers, but under proper representation and due process. Furthermore, said draftees are given a say in their government, which they can change if it is unpleasant or odious to them.

The fundamentals of the draft are as old as civilization. Look to Socrates and his teachings of the foundations of the polis. This is a guy who could have fled at his death sentence, but voluntarily chose to drink hemlock...to uphold the sanctity of the polis's sovereign power, of which he was a stakeholder.

We are given the opportunity to vote. It is ours to have and do with as we please. In exchange for this right, we have a responsibility to our state in a time of duress. The freedoms we enjoy aren't free, and the ones to pay for those freedoms aren't just the lifers and weekend warriors. It could be anyone, at any time, at any place.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If women have to register for the draft pretty soon we'll have a Starship Troopers type military, with men and women showering together. o_O

Hmm....

[Charley]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
If women have to register for the draft pretty soon we'll have a Starship Troopers type military, with men and women showering together. o_O

Hmm....

This is a good good thing

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:lol No it isn't!!

[Navaria Tarkin]

sure it is ^_^

[TheHolo.Net]

I have just learned that I was wrong in thinking that women were allowed to be in any part of military combat situations/parts of the armed forces.
Aren’t there laws against women in combat?

The answer is no—statutory exemptions from combat aviation were repealed in 1991, and a law that exempted from involuntary duty on combat ships, including submarines, was quietly repealed in 1993. Units such as the infantry, armor, field artillery, special operations, submarines, and special operations helicopters remain all-male, but women are now serving in combat support and combat service support positions that used to be coded “all-male.” Source: http://www.cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp?docID=187

So I withdraw my debate as it isn't relavant to what I thought the situation with the laws were.

[Morgan Evanar]

Its good combat avation isn't included. Women are physically better suited to be pilots.

Patty Wagstaff is probably the best stunt pilot in the world.

[Charley]

Not to mention that chicks in A-10s are probably the sexiest thing ever.