Why Nerds are Unpopular

[JonathanLB]

http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

I found this to be the best essay I have read this year, perhaps one of the best I've ever read, actually.

It is really about the problems of our educational system, actually, don't be fooled by the title. That's just a small issue of the whole, essentially, used to illustrate a point.

As we have a smart group of people here, most of whom are unlikely to have been the dumb jocks in high school, I thought this might be particularly good to read.

No offense to the dumb jocks, I suppose ;)

I do not like beginning a thread with a lot of commentary where I have posted a link, because the opinion of the person in the article should be enough.

Nonetheless, I personally found it very accurate because I have long had many problems with the education system here in the U.S. and, frankly, I would suggest drastic changes that would abolish certain parts of it. I'd probably eliminate high school and combine high school with college, essentially, or I'd shorten college to 2 years, high school to 2 years, which is really the same thing, and I'd eliminate useless core classes in college entirely. You'd just have to take the number of credits in your major, like 45 in my case (one year exactly), plus about a year's worth of elective credits of YOUR choosing (so that you, a free adult, can explore other areas of interest to you freely, as an adult does, with the responsibility that an adult person should be afforded). High school would consist of many more optional classes, several more that are of actual value to real people, and not futile exercises in idiocy.

Essentially, let teenagers be productive members of society, don't force them into being problems just because of a poor system. That is the case now, as Graham argues, with which I agree.

I intend to make this the subject of one of my first post-college books, though whether or not I do that immediately afterwards is not decided. I have so much film study to complete I can hardly stray from that to explore another issue at this point. But it's something important to me. I hope that someday I can, at the least, force people to look at the system critically. One way or another, I'd like to make a difference. When I have the power so that my opinion will be heard, then I'll make it known, not just through a damning book, but through interviews and articles, that I think the education system sucks.

What little I learned in school about anything of consequence is so significantly outweighed by the depression and frustration caused so as to be miniscule.

I taught myself how to write. School failed at that, pretty badly, I might add. Film studies, the most valuable thing to me, are not available in high school and the classes I've had in college have only touched the tip of what I have learned myself. I just think you'd have to be at a huge disadvantage if you really let school teach you everything, without ever taking the initiative and learning on your own.

As my friend Ben says, the Internet is the single greatest resource for learning. I learn the most just browsing the Internet, not sitting in a classroom where I am being programmed and cannot explore on my own. It's useless to the point of frustration and boredom.

[Sanis Prent]

As we have a smart group of people here, most of whom are unlikely to have been the dumb jocks in high school, I thought this might be particularly good to read.

No offense to the dumb jocks, I suppose

Remove your head from your rectum, please. Objects appear distorted from that viewpoint. I get absolutely tired of the jock-bashing, and asinine assumptions of their intellectual capacity.

[Darth Viscera]

I honestly couldn't care less about popularity, which I regard as arbitrary, often irrelevant, and not fulfilling enough to be worth the effort. So long as you're nice to the good acquaintances and friends who count during the times they need being nice to, and make sure that you're a generous person (I cannot emphasize generosity enough-hate & bad feelings are universally derived from the antithesis of generosity), the real friends will pop up.

But that's just my opinion.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I agree with Sanis on the whole jocks = dumb thing. That's just a stupid stereotype. I knew a lot of smart athletic type people in highschool who were at least on 3 varsity teams, ranging from football, to swimming, to lacross, to baskteball, to baseball.

[CMJ]

While the essay was extremely interesting, I found some of his arguments flawed using my own highschool experience.

[Hadrian Invicta]

I was captain of the football team, basketball team, a letterman in baseball and in track, I also was ranked 5th in a class of 125, scored the second highest ACT score in my school, was a member of scholar bowl a State qualifier for WYSE or JETS (howver you look at it) And I wasn't the only one in my school with such acclamations. My roomate was salutatorian, will Graduate from the univ or IL this year Summa Cum Laude in Speech and Hearing Science and was a 4 sport letterer in high school.

My roomie my freshman year was Prom King, Valedvictorian, the highest ACT score in the school. scored in the 97% of the LSAT is going to Duke Law school in the fall and played on Univ of IL's Ice Hockey and Roller Hockey teams.

In fact it is the people who all they did in high school was study and do nothing that are the unbalanced ones. A girl in my class that ended up ranked 4th in our class and scored high on the ACT stayed at home and went to a Local Community college for 2 years got pregnant and works at Walmart now. Her High School accomplishments, she was ranked 4th in our class and didn't do anything else.

Granted smart kids get picked on at times. I did when I was in junior high, but everyone got picked on at sometime during junior high. It's the people who didn't adapt that got left out of the social loops once Junior High and the first year or two of High school was over.

So Don't refer to us as Dumb Jocks, :P

[Jedieb]

That article could be a shrink's ticket to fabulous riches and great vacations! ;)

I didn't even bother finishing it. It started out well, but then it kind of degenerated into the very kind of jock bashing the author was trying to steer clear from in his intro. Nerds are unpopular because they like to spend their effort on their studies. Popular kids are "dumb" because they spend their time and effort and clothes and socializing. That's a really sad generalization. I knew plenty of nerds who were rather dense. Some of them lacked so much common sense that it was staggering. I knew plenty of popular and attractive people who also happened to make the Dean's list. A lot of times people are nerds because they simply don't have the social skills that it takes to be popular. They could spend an entire semester phoning in their grades and it still wouldn't get them elected Prom King/Queen.

I wasn't all that popular for a variety of reasons. Yeah, a lot of it was because I was more inclined to study than to pursue "popular" acitivities. Some of it was due to the fact that I found the act of trying to put on a show for others pointless. But I would be lying if I didn't admit that I simply did NOT possess the social skills of more popular kids. It's that simple. My sister was more popular than I was. Good for her. It just accentuated the differences between us. It didn't point out that one was better than the other.

[Sanis Prent]

I've visited both sides of the coin. I've been a huge nerd, and I've also done the jock thing. For crying out loud, I was on Scholars Bowl, Science Olympiad, Model UN, Math Team, Mu Alpha Theta math honorary, and (sigh) Star Trek Fanclub. I've also played football for 10 years of my life, baseball for 5 years, track & field for 3 years (placed 7th in county competition in shotput my senior year), and basketball for 1 year.

The very notion that you can't define your own existence is absurd. One of the smartest guys I know only went to classes for homework, quizzes, and tests, and graduated college with a Mechanical Engineering degree and a 4.0 GPA. He was EXTREMELY athletic, and whenever he wasn't at the bars, he was out doing some kind of sport stuff, including a walk-on attempt on UA's football team. Though he didn't make the varsity squad, he still kept extremely fit, running 10 miles a day at 6 AM, and other bits of workout. Now, he's a Marine Corps Lieutenant, and flying harriers...somewhere.

[Jedieb]

The very notion that you can't define your own existence is absurd.

In a perfect world everybody could be as popular as they wanted to be, everybody could be pretty, everybody could accomplish anything they wanted. But more often than not, there are going to be limits put in front of you. Some of your own making, others over which you have no control. I'm never going to be a top flight ballet dancer, no matter how much I practice. Yeah, I'd look great in those tights because they hide no secrets, but I'm still not going to nail the 5 starting positions. ;)

Richards Simmons can work as hard as he wants at being hip and fit but he's never really gonna make it. :evil But Richard Simmons should be happy just being Richard Simmons. He shouldn't care what anyone thinks about him or Sweatin' to the Oldies.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Amen to that!

:lol

[Dasquian Belargic]

:rolleyes What a load of rot

[JMK]

I was definetly a nerd in high school, but I was also involved in athletics, and I tried to be nice to people so I wasn't treated like "a nerd".

[Admiral Lebron]

I'm a nerd for the fall and winter and a jock for the spring... the 'popular kids' suck in reality. The girls aren't that hot, the guys are dicks, and what they do is stupid. If I have to smoke weed or get drunk to be cool, count me out.

[Keerrourri Feessaarro]

Aww Lebby, that really hurts, man. C'mon....all the cool kids are doing it!

[Admiral Lebron]

You're right. I'll go smoke weed and get drunk. Then I'll either 'fly' off the woodrow wilson bridge (during rush hour to piss everyone off) or eat a bullet right from the barrel!! :p

[Wei Wu Wei]

You guys that say this dude doesn't know what he is talking abotu is entirely wrong. I've seen first hand what this guy is speaking out against. Hell, I did more than see it. I lived it.

[Jedieb]

the 'popular kids' suck in reality. The girls aren't that hot, the guys are dicks, and what they do is stupid.

Isn't that just as bad as jocks and popular kids labeling other kids as nerds, geeks, or losers? Couldn't they say, "The Math chicks are hideous, the Science guys are dweebs, and they all look stupid!" Why can't people just be different? Why can't it just be left at that? I don't want to be wrapped up in Schadenfreud(sp?) heaven thinking of how all the popular jocks I knew in HS are now pumping gas. Why should it matter to me where they are in life? Some probably are pumping gas, while others probably kept livin' the dream and now have a corner office somewhere. I'm just happy with me, my life, and my boy's insistance that he have a Jango costume for Halloween.

Be happy with yourself and let everyone else's image of you go .........:smokin

[Loki Ahmrah]

If the divisions amongst the American student body are as prominent as one assumes from reading this thread then I'm suprised that there aren't a great deal more jibbering, traumatized souls than already exist. I loathe with a passion stereotypes and people-labelling. In my eyes, there's no such thing as a "jock" or a "nerd". It's all a steaming, great pile of bs.

You create the class divisions and social status hierarchy within your school and it cannot be the fault of the education system in my eyes. If you allow yourself to keel over and succumb to the labels others hoist upon you then you have only yourself to blame. Instead of wallowing in self-pity, stand up for yourself.

[JonathanLB]

I haven't had time to read everything here (but will...), but some of you obviously aren't reading correctly here.

Sanis, did I say jocks were dumb? NO. I said "dumb jocks." There are dumb Star Wars fans, but if I said, "I hate dumb Star Wars fans making fun of The Phantom Menace," then would I be saying all Star Wars fans are dumb? Obviously not. I'm refering only to the DUMB ones.

Not all jocks are dumb, jesus, DUH. Many of the smartest girls in our class were on the soccer team, a lot of the smart guys were track stars or whatever, or even our football QB was a 4.0 student, one of our best. I didn't say jocks are dumb, but if that IS what you think I said, then YOU are the one who has gotta be dumb. Just read, that's all anyone can ask. Read what is written, not what you want to hear, and you'll be a lot better off.

'Nuff said.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Good advice, Loki. Thing is, most of the high school students that I know don't see it that way. All they know are the sterotypes that are set in place. It's a very sad thing.

[JonathanLB]

I read a bit more of what you guys said.

As far as popularity, I think a lot of the most popular people are basically the most deprived of real relationships. My sister has always been fairly popular, I guess, at least so far as every guy thinks she's hot, so she has no trouble managing to make guy friends at least, but her relationships last at most a year, and that's if she is lucky.

I only have a few friends, but the friends I make last for many, many years. I'd rather have a few great friends than have 50 people who "know me" and "sorta like me" or whatever. Being popular isn't especially useful unless you're a politican, really.

Even if you're an artist or movie director, you don't need to be popular, you just need to be good. People can think what they will of Roman Polanski, but if the guy makes great movies, people go and watch anyway.

I don't think the author here wanted to say that all nerds are noble and that all jocks are stupid and confused or something. That is not the reality. I think what he is saying is that the vast majority of the smarter kids who others label as "nerds" are just trying to understand the real world around them, becoming interested in their own learning, and preparing for the future. They don't have the same drive to go to parties, win sports awards (sometimes they do), or chase after popularity and fashion sense. A lot of the most popular kids are just enjoying the good life of the present, concentrating on the moment, very happy with their everyday lives, but unaware that high school lasts only 4 years (for most of us, lol). When that last day of high school ends, the dream is over like in Cinderella and the carriage turns back to a pumpkin, lol.

It's the difference between someone with vision and someone without. Most smart people have vision. Most people of average intelligence have none. That's why they toil at their desk jobs every day never making it anywhere. It's a sad reality. They live ordinary lives, and claim to be happy with them sometimes, other times they get depressed by them, but they have no vision to change their realities. The same could be said of some nerds, if they really want to be popular and are not, IMO.

I never wanted to be popular. In all honesty, I wanted nobody to know me in the first two years. I tried as hard as possible to be invisible and had only 3 yearbook photos in my first three years -- just the required ones. By senior year, I figured it would be a good time to move up the ranks a bit and be more visible, given that the consequences of my actions could only affect me for a year, not for four. If you get a bad reputation in freshman year, you are screwed, like my sister, and have to transfer (she did).

I had 3 pictures in the senior yearbook. A normal photo, some other random picture, and a picture because I was voted "Most Likely to Be A Millionaire" by my classmates, hehe. People knew who I was by that time, which was good by me, but I just didn't want to be popular or well known until later.

In college, I'd just as soon nobody know me until maybe the end also. There is a time and a place for everything. Popularity is good sometimes, bad others. Popularity, in the real world, being fame, I mean.

If my movie site received a lot of attention now, it would actually distract me from my real work of reviewing movies and updating the site. It would put undo pressure on me to keep the site constantly updated, then I'd have to answer more e-mails, deal with more advertising and business aspects, and just in general have a lot more to worry about. That's why I'd rather have it be popular in 2-3 years, not now, because it's too soon and not to mention I don't feel it deserves any attention until later. It would be unwanted attention now.

People in my high school were not especially mean to anyone about being smart. I never had that problem. Maybe in middle school, but by high school, nobody made a big deal out of someone being smart. Still, it's true, you don't sit at the "good" tables, you aren't welcome to hang out with such people, and they won't usually say hi to you or talk to you much. Of course, unless they need your help. I can't even recall how many times everyone came to me when they needed help on any given subject. I always helped as much as I could, but anymore I do not lend my help to anyone I don't know fairly well. It's not ok to use people for your own gain and then just expect to give nothing in return. If you don't know me well and you want my help, offer me money or try to become a real friend, then maybe I'll help you, but otherwise, forget it.

"Her High School accomplishments, she was ranked 4th in our class and didn't do anything else."

That is too bad. Well, grades are not very rewarding either, really, so I wouldn't say it is the best just to focus on them, although I did for 2.5 years anyway, then I switched to my writing and online stuff. That was a better move...

There are always examples, though, of people with lots of promise who throw it away by making mistakes. My best friend's cousin had a 4.0 in high school and now works at a beauty salon for not much more than minimum wage really. Still, for every example of someone like that, there are many more of people who kept those grades up during college and have done very well for themselves.

Just studying all of the time is unbalanced, but it depends on what you're studying, really. I just study school and study film, nothing else, but I feel such dedication is absolutely required for success. "A Jedi must have the most serious mind."

[Jedieb]

Loki speaks the truth. :thumbup

[imported_Eve]

"Dumb jocks" is a funny phrase. You can't play sports unless you keep your grades up. You can't play unless you're drug free. You get tested, and we all know you can't be good if you're puffing something. Playing sports keeps you out of trouble, makes you other friends who keep out of trouble, is proven to increase test scores, and gives you confidence. You can't go wrong.

I agree with Loki. People create their own problems.

I was a jock. Kept my grades in the top 2% of my class. I got a scholarship to college. Won awards for the county I was in. My success in sports helped me win an election for student government. My teachers were my coaches, so we had a better working relationship. I made some of the best friends of my life. Nothing like swimming miles upon miles together, or playing a million matches to bond people. You worked hard together, and you made it through something together... that counts for something between humans.

Plus you keep in shape. And we all appreciate althletic bodies. No?

[Keerrourri Feessaarro]

Only if we're "those shallow people" ;)

[Ryan Pode]

LOL... To play actively in a VHSL (Virginia High School League) sport you need to maintain at least five classes, with no more then two F's and three D's (note we do not hate E's.) And most Jocks take weightlifting for one of their five.


<-- lebron btw

[JonathanLB]

hahaha, nice.

The jocks at our HS were very smart, but that's cuz I went to a private high school where they don't tolerate poor grades for long. Two semesters below a 2.0 and you are expelled. If you had a 3.0 at my high school, congratulations, you are in the bottom 25% of the class.

We had 105 students out of 242 on the honor roll, 3.6 or above, so if you had a 3.0 you really must not care or be really stupid compared to everyone else there, at least. I always thought anyone with a 3.3 even must be pretty mediocre, lol.

I guess at most high schools a 3.3 is good, but at JHS, a 3.7 was "good," a 3.8 was "very good," and anything above ranked from still very good to excellent. I had a 3.85, so very good, top 12% or something (I think I was #30 out of 242). I knew the dude who was #242, haha, what a fool. Son of a rich car dealer here in Portland. I went to school with him in lower school, too.

[Ryan Pode]

What did he have? A 3.5?

[CMJ]

Well the competitiveness was not only the private school...but the small size of your class. In bigger classes, you're still gonna get alot at the top, there would just be more at the bottom. My graduating class had nearly 700 members. I graduated with *honors* GPA-wise, and didn't even make the top 25% of my class.

And who said Public schools weren't competitive? :p

[Marcus Telcontar]

So... what exactly is a geek? What exactly is a Jock?

Let's see, I like books, I'm on computers everyday, I'm not that big muscle wise - yet I race cars, swim, used to play rugby, dont mind a bit of yobbo behaviour.

Stereotypes are BS cause no one truly fits in them. You are who you are and that's the end of it.

[JonathanLB]

No rank #242, Chris, had about a 2.1 or something I think. It couldn't have been worse than a 2.0, but he left for a while in the middle, for about a year, because he was a troublemaker.

Then again, his dad is LOADED, even more so than my dad, haha, and was easily able to convince the school to let him back with a nice donation ;)

Stereotypes may not be true, blah blah, whatever, but Jesuits love money -- believe it! They keep hitting us up for more even though we're done with JHS.

I wouldn't say 242 people is that small of a high school class. It isn't huge, perhaps, but small is 50 people. I went to a school like that before, Catlin, and chose not to continue there for high school. 50 is small. 242 was huge, I thought. I mean you can hardly know everyone in a class that big. I finally learned everyone's names by the end, somehow, hehe. Except for like 3 people. On graduation day I was like, "They are in our class?!"

Private schools can be a pain, but public schools are absolutely terrible. There is no discipline whatsoever, the funding is pathetic, the teachers are inferior, and the sports programs cannot compete (we were #1 on in almost everything for this reason). As for private vs. public colleges, well I'm at a public college now and it's a total piece of crap, even compared to LMU. I hated LMU much more mainly because I was too far from home wasting WAY too much money, but I always say you get what you pay for. I am happy at OSU because I know it's DANG cheap. At like $3,500 a year, it's almost free compared to LMU's $25,000. $3,500, haha, god that's so cheap. I never paid so little. It cost me more to go to 1st grade in a private school. At Catlin, it was $10,000 a year regardless of the grade level, and at JHS it was down to $7,500 a year, but now in college I pay even less (and get even less).

I am happy because it's like going to McDonalds and buying a hamburger. Sure, it doesn't have a lot of meat. Sure, it's not that filling, but darnit for 29 cents on Wednesdays (or whatever), at least I know I'm getting what I paid for! At LMU I was paying too much and not getting enough extra. I was paying 7 times as much or whatever and getting 2-3 times as much. Not good enough.

OSU sucks hard, everyone knows that basically, but it's cheap and gets you a degree, so whatever.

I'm sure there are instances of good public schools, but if you knew anything about Oregon, you'd know why anyone here will think that public education is terrible. Our funding shortages, caused by nation-high unemployment rates (right in the top 3 worst economies right now), have forced Portland public schools to close down for several weeks in March, give Friday's off, and ask the teachers to work 23 days without pay, which they won't do and are threatening to strike (why wouldn't they? You can't ask people to work without pay!). The public school kids are going to be so dumb compared to the private school ones in this state, if this persists.

I am not even sure what to make of the fact that nearly everyone at OSU is a freakin' idiot. I mean, is this the result of public school education or are these just the dumbest kids who couldn't go anywhere else and decided to stay in state? I don't know...

These kids are so inept they couldn't tell you the difference between the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the American Revolution. They couldn't pick George W. Bush out a two person crowd with the other person being Janet Reno.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Private school sports...good? :lol!

Thats an outlier if I've ever seen one. There's like....one decent private school around here, and they're historically trounced in nearly everything. As for teachers...I consider the vast majority of my teachers to be quite capable, stimulating people that were a major asset in my education.

Your issues seem to be with Oregon's education system, and not the system in general. My tuition is cheaper than yours at Oregon State, and I'll graduate with one of the highest accredited business degrees in the nation. Either I've got a diamond in the rough, or you're just in a Kobayashi Maru scenario.

I just don't understand where you're coming from, Jon. You bitch at everything in school, and talk down about everybody...but you're a total silver spoon. Why don't you just write a bigger check and go Ivy League or wherever you'd rather go. Or since you claim degrees in your field to be a waste of time, why not save your money, and learn all of that stuff on your own, like you said you could.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The best performing school in NSW - and probably Australia is, much to the chargin of the private school who charge absurd fees, is James Ruse Agricultural High, Carlinford, Sydney. In Academic results, it's not been matched in two decades. Every year, it produces more students who top the marks in every subject Ruse teaches.

It does have an entrance test, but any student can take it. All the teachers coem from the public sphere. It's technically called Public Selective and it's proven to work much better than Private schools. While it's undoubtfully the abnormality because it's the pinnicle of the public system in NSW, public schools here certainly do a great job.

I also have personal experience with Ruse, it's where I went for high school. My parents could never afford to send me to a private schoool. Ruse did pretty well, even if I was a bored and uninterested student. The public system does work. Public selective is IMO, the best out there

[JonathanLB]

"Or since you claim degrees in your field to be a waste of time, why not save your money, and learn all of that stuff on your own, like you said you could."

Well, you may think I have all of the money in the world, but it's my parents who are loaded, not I. I have a trust fund set up to pay for college and it will even have some extra cash in it afterwards, even if I had stayed at LMU, there would have been money left over.

However, I'm taking a bigger gamble. I am going to the lesser college so that when I graduate from OSU, and when I shell out $22,000 for film school or whatever, I'll still have maybe $100,000 to $200,000 left over I presume (I really don't know). That should be plenty enough to make my first movie, or to make my first project, at least. Whether I decide to film, say, 15 minutes of a larger film and use that to propose my movie, or whether I just go ahead with a low-budget feature. At least this way I will have the money left to pursue such a project. I suppose if I am particularly ambitious about it and really believe in it, then I could see about borrowing some money or setting up a partnership of some sort, though I am not sure.

As for just learning everything on my own, well I really would love to do that, but there are two reasons why I can't. First, if I don't graduate from college, I don't gain access to the trust fund at all. Furthermore, my parents would ask me to pay rent if I wanted to live at home and wasn't even planning to attend college, so then I'd have to get a job. Then 40 hours each week I'd be wasting on some low paying job, which is more than the time I waste here at OSU (I waste maybe 30 to 35 hours a week but it's much easier in some senses, and more rewarding, than at least working at 7-11 or whatever, lol). Also, people respect you for having a degree, no matter where you get it pretty much. I mean not "no matter where," but at an accredited state university like OSU, even if it does suck, other people don't necessarily know that. You are still college educated.

I certainly care to some degree what people say about me and I wouldn't want to be known as a college dropout. It's a lousy system, but I'd rather try to change it after I am out, rather than go against the wind now, hehe.

Your college sounds quite good. We don't have much like that here in Oregon. Perhaps U of O is better, but I don't know anyone there who is a real friend. Well, that's not true, I have one friend there, but he's not the type I'd really hang out with a lot. We just talk online, even though I have known him since 3rd grade. There are lots of hot girls at U of O too, but again that doesn't matter to me -- I have no chance with any of them anyway! lol.

OSU will be fine. I still reserve the right to complain about it because it's a waste of my time and an idiotic school, but it'll be over with in 7 more terms and the worst of my life will be behind me (with any luck).

Oh, yeah, and our sports programs were excellent. That was a huge reason for going to high school at JHS for many people. The girls soccer team had the longest unbeaten streak in the entire nation for a while, 118-0-1 I believe it was. They had a tie, but no losses in 6 years. During my senior year, they finally lost, 1-0, despite about three times as many shots on goal that game. The goalie just had the game of her life evidently.

Last year the cross country team wasn't even supposed to rank, neither the guys or the girls. BOTH finished #1 in the state.

Michael Dunleavy Jr. went to high school at JHS, where he won state for us, then he went on to play at Duke as one of their top scorers. He is a great player. I went to school with his brother Baker. Both were the suns of Mike Dunleavy, coach of the Portland Trail Blazers for a while.

Our football team has consistently been one of the better sports programs. When I was there, they also won state. In fact, it's hard to think of a sports program at JHS that didn't win state at least once while I was at JHS, LOL.

We had fewer kids than every other high school pretty much, but the athletes who attend JHS are the best of the best at their level. Other schools always accused us of recruiting, but JHS just recruited on reputation. It's not like they offered financial rewards or scholarships or anything like that. It's just that kids know they have winning programs and that if they take sports seriously, they're well served by going to JHS.

I had a huge problem with their sports-minded atmosphere, however, because they often sacrificed academics for sports (dismissing some days early to let people go watch games, which I never did, although I guess I certainly appreciated the time off because HS blows). They make a big deal about sports and spend all their money on that, but it hurt the academic programs somewhat.

Phil Knight at Nike, one of the head dudes, contributed quite a lot of money to Jesuit's various sports expansions, such as the new track and football field. The Portland Arena League football team, the Forest Dragons, used to practice on our fields. That team is no more, I don't think.

JHS has so many trophy cases for sports they practically have to build a new wing for them. Our performing arts center rivaled most small college campuses.

Although I had my problems with JHS, it was certainly far, FAR better than any public school around. The only problem is the selection of classes, which was lacking in comparison to a few public schools such as Lincoln. Nonetheless, I don't think I would have liked a place like Lincoln. I appreciated the discipline at JHS, at least for a while, and I got tired of idiotic goof-off kids.

Actually what annoyed me the most was that I thought JHS was supposed to be totally elite, the best of the best, the smartest kids in the state, and when I got there I noticed how stupid a lot of the kids were and I was not impressed how many were not serious about their studies. I wanted a school where everyone put academics first, but evidently you just can't get that type of quality, especially not with great sports programs. JHS only accepted about 1 in 8 applicants the year that I applied, although it might be more like 1 in 10 now with the public school problems. 2,000 kids applied for 250 slots, so when I got in, I was very happy, but also thought for sure I could expect smarter kids there. That wasn't the case really. In any group, you have smart kids, medium kids, and dumb kids, or replace "kids" with "people" in general for the adult world.

[Hadrian Invicta]

Alabama = inverse of the rest of the United States. :lol

Illinois' private schools = top flight athletic programs due to serious recruiting and other illegal bullshit. For their recruiting though, all private schools are required to play in the largest class size in sports. LOL so the local private schools with their ringers get to play against the inner city Chicago schools. What a Joke!

[Sejah Haversh]

Hmm, talk about college....

Okay, I make less than seven grand a year. We can chalk half of that away to bills, insurance, food, and other necessities. So, I'm left with about $3,300 to work with. Oh, yeah, and I HAVE to work while I'm in school, too!

Though I suppose it would technically be possible for me to go to school on that, I sure couldn't afford to do anything but breathe for entertainment.

My mom is a teacher. When you talk about teachers being inferior, I take offense. Though she might only teach first grade, she has the largest class with some of the toughest kids in a not very nice area and still manages to have the best class in the whole school. She's going to take her principalship next year, too.

But, unlike some of us, I do not have a trust fund, nor does my mom. She couldln't hope to make a hundred grand in three years. So, now we can see why I get a little ticked when some of us talk about college being a waste of time.

-Edit-

The rest was a rant that was sure to get me in trouble...

[Dasquian Belargic]

All of the private schools here top the national league tables in academics and sports. My school takes both equally seriously, but doesn’t force people who play sports to have good grades to stay on the teams - which I think is a really stupid concept to be honest, if people aren’t good at academic studies than at least let them have some glory on the sports field.

Here actually there is a lot of non-private schools do just as well as private schools too. I don’t think there is really much of a gap between the teaching standards etc between the two types of school – what you are normally paying for with private schools is a higher level of discipline.

[Diego Van Derveld]

My school takes both equally seriously, but doesn’t force people who play sports to have good grades to stay on the teams - which I think is a really stupid concept to be honest, if people aren’t good at academic studies than at least let them have some glory on the sports field.

Education is a right, but sports and such extracurriculars are a privilege. Not only do you have to try out for such things, but you also have to show that being involved won't make you negligent in your education, which is the reason you're there anyways.



what you are normally paying for with private schools is a higher level of discipline.

And Harry Potter outfits :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

The teachers pick who are on the teams, so that cancels out having to try-out for them. Most of the teachers do a normal subject and teach sports too – biology teacher is a hockey coach, maths teacher does cricket, etc – so they can make sure you go to practices and attend extra study lessons too

and yes, the outfits are expensive. £70 just for my blazer. what a rip off :x

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There are lots of hot girls at U of O too, but again that doesn't matter to me -- I have no chance with any of them anyway! lol. Not with that attitude you don't.

Sejah ...ditto. Except for the personalized comments, as my mom isn't a teacher. ;)

[JMK]

Exactly, if you go in thinking you have no chance with the ladies, you effectively knock yourself out of the race before you even get to the starting line. It's all about the confidence, if you don't have any, you won't *get* any, if you catch my drift....

[Admiral Lebron]

Private schools in lacrosse = easy game for us. We played one once and slaughtered them. I feel I am getting a good education from public school. And my parents disciplined me well enough so there is no need for a private school really.

[JonathanLB]

It's not that, but I don't have any time for girls right now anyway. I have little time for my best friends, even. I make time, of course, for my few best friends because they are important to me, but neither Bryan nor I have the time to just hang out as we might wish we did. He's a really busy guy, usually taking 18 credits, working on OSU's TV station constantly, and during any free time probably hanging out with his gf Stacey.

With me, I have certain goals that mean everything to me right now, so I don't have the time to just hang out and party or anything like that. I am taking 19 credits next term, up 1 from my 18 this term, and 19 is the maximum allowed credits at OSU. It also costs an additional $80 just to take 19 instead of 18. It would literally not be possible for me to take more credits. Not to mention on the side I'm still pursuing my film studies.

That's one reason I'd have no chance, at least. Eventually I'll have more time to work out, care about meeting other people, etc. blah blah, but right now those are not priorities.

Sejah, I never meant to insult teachers if you think that's what I did. I have the highest respect for many of the best teachers. They have made a huge impact on my life, such as my junior English teacher (my first book is dedicated to him), my college freshman philosophy teacher at LMU (he convinced me to be a PHL major), and a number of others with lesser influences who I still appreciate. Oh yes, Jon Lewis, my film teacher of course, he's a great one.

Anyway, I signed up for classes today (after midnight), that's how I just got the 19 worked out. I have all classes I hate, too, but I'm trying to get them out of the way so I can enjoy better times in the future. I have Math 105, Math 245, Botany 101, Biology 103, and CS 101. The good thing is, of course, 4 of those are just 100-level classes and the other is going to be easy too. I don't think any of them will pose any challenge, but all together, they take up a huge load of time and it'll be a little tough to manage all that with all I try to do on the side. A good challenge nonetheless.

I'm a freshman in credits right now, but after this term I am a sophomore and by the end of 2003, in December, I will be a junior. So that's pretty good movement!

[JMK]

Well then that makes a whole lot of sense.