-Insert Nasty German Slogan Here-

[JonathanLB]

Oops, I mean I just got finished watching Triumph of the Will, the 1934 documentary about the Nazi Party (or National Socialist Party) Rally in Nuremberg in September, 1934.

Anyway, very interesting documentary, I thought. It's the ultimate piece of propaganda, perhaps the greatest ever filmed. It is a tough one to watch somewhat, though, I mean it is very ominous and just eerie, I think. I mean, you are not seeing Darth Vader, a fantasy villain, you are seeing a few of the worst people history has ever known, mainly Hitler, of course.

It's incredibly well shot, however, and very well done in general. Low-angle shots of Hitler, making him look towering and huge, high-angle shots of the crowds, great shots as Hitler's plane flies into Nuremberg, wonderful shots of the city, amazing numbers of people in formation, not even all of them military.

It's essential viewing for film historians/scholars/critics, but you have to watch with the audio commentary. I did, anyway. I didn't want to sit through two hours of marching and whatnot without any commentary. It took me 4 hours to get through it, not just because I ate Dominos in the middle of it and took a shower (lol), but also because I wrote my 6 page review while watching it and was looking up some additional historical information and stuff.

I think it's especially important to film history because just shortly before that film, the German film industry ended, really. It came under national control, i.e. Hitler's control (well, or Joseph Goebbel's control), which is actually quite tragic. The German expressionist movement from 1920 (or 1919 if you want to use that date for Caligari) that lasted until the early '30s has to be one of the greatest periods for film in any country outside of the U.S. anyway.

Fritz Lang, F. W. Murnau, Robert Wiene, G. W. Pabst, and probably plenty of others I'm not familiar with yet.

Lang and Murnau really are the two masters in my eyes, though. Lang took one look at Germany after his 1933 film "The Last Will of Dr. Mabuse" was banned and said, "Uhh, yeah see ya later, suckas." Good thing, he made some notable films in the U.S., 21 in all, including The Big Heat, a classic film noir. He really enjoyed a long career.

I saw Metropolis and M of his last weekend, loved them both, though especially Metropolis. All of the hype I heard about it was right. I thought it was awesome. I only wonder how it was with the other 25% that is now missing. The new Kino transfer, the DVD that came out February 18, is incredible in quality and I highly recommend it. You won't see any other silent era films with that amazing of picture quality I don't think. I'm sure there have to be a few others, but none that I've yet come across. They really cleaned it up. Just a remarkable job.

I've also been reading some of Siegfried Kracauer's "From Caligari to Hitler: A Psychological History of the German Film," published about a decade after WWII if I recall correctly. It basically argues that you could see the Nazi movement coming through the German films many years before, and I see the connection, too, after just watching four German expressionist films so far (a few more on order). Every one of them has very noticeable themes that seem to encourage the type of radical behavior in which Germany engaged under Hitler. Nonetheless, that is not to say the directors of those films supported Hitler or were evil at all. Lang wasn't, yet you can still see these themes in Metropolis.

[Darth Viscera]

I saw it too....rather dull. They could have livened it up a bit with a Konigratze during the goose-stepping. And then there was all that wasted time, Hitler and his cronies giving political speeches, brainwashed Autobahn workers talking like they're SS standartenfuhrers. Oy vey ismier, those cats were awfully full of themselves.

[JonathanLB]

It's not dull at all, I don't think, at least with audio commentary. WITHOUT it, and yes, dull...

I don't see how you'd make any sense of it unless you were already an historian, unless you had that audio commentary on.

I found it fascinating as this guy was really good at explaining everything that was happening.

[CMJ]

I LOVED it. One of the few documentaries I own.

[JonathanLB]

Cool, I'm not the only one, haha.

But I have reservations about being too enthusiastic about a propaganda documentary for the Nazis ;)

I declined to rate the film, as I said, but my review is thorough nonetheless...

This little film they included with it, Day of Freedom, is very impressive! The final shot in it is rather remarkable, showing a formation of Nazi planes in the swastika formation, then fading to a flag with the swastika that is on the ground below. Very good editing, though I couldn't help but chuckle because that is honestly a Soviet formalist editing technique, something that Eisenstein would use a lot in Strike, The Battleship Potemkin, and October, but the Germans were supposed to oppose their film theories and techniques, thus expressionism. Of course that has little bearing in a documentary and expressionism has ended by that point in Germany, or the primary expressionist movement I mean, but I still thought it was interesting.

[CMJ]

You can totally tell how much "Starship Troopers" ripped "Triumph" too. That was actually one of the major reasons I liked "Starship" so much.

It was like a big inside joke, that only a few people got. ;)

[JonathanLB]

Yeah, I knew about those connections already, but now I see them a little more clearly, making me really anxious to see Starship again when I review it.

I just recently, i.e. two weeks ago, finally bought the special edition DVD of Starship Troopers that I've wanted for a few years now or something, lol. Ok like a year.

Anyway, that'll be interesting to rewatch now, after having seen Triumph of the Will.

EDIT: Oh also, CMJ, if you see Equilibrium on DVD (coming in May), and I really, really hope you do, then you gotta take a look at all of the Nazi connections there -- really obvious. The symbol of their totalitarian regime is basically a swastika, but take those edges of the swastika sticking off on each of the four sides and move them over so an equal amount is sticking to each side. Hard to explain I guess but you probably get what I mean.

There are other connections there too. Heck the troops, like in Star Wars, are kind of like stormtroopers, or they are faceless opponents.

[CMJ]

I saw "Triumph", or a section anyways, right before "Troopers" was released. Our professor told us about the supposed connections. I didn't see it in it's theatrical release but I heard from some film school people that the similarities did exist.

I then saw the full documentary the following semester, and when I rented "Starship Troopers" I grinned at myself. Not only similiarities to "Triumph", but the film itself is a propaganda film for a society that doesn't exist.

Taken on that level, it's a minor masterpiece.

[JonathanLB]

Haha, yeah that's what I thought -- but USA Today was the only paper to agree with me. ;)

I remember their four-star review of Starship Troopers was especially funny because Entertainment Weekly later had a breakdown of the reviews for the top 100 moneymakers of the year or something and no other paper gave it above 2.5.

Whatever. I think they didn't quite get the in-jokes, the satire, and the brilliance of the film. Plus, the special effects were incredible. That was some stunning CG animation...

I saw it several times in theaters, made a huge stink about wanting to see it that opening weekend actually because we were in Washington, D.C. at the Star Wars Smithsonian Exhibit and we just spent a day there, then we were going to other stuff around the area, and I said we gotta see that darn movie in D.C. Well I don't think it worked that way if I recall. I believe I saw it that Monday or something, but hmm, yeah. Oh well.

[CMJ]

I'm not sure I have quite the affection for it that you do, but I also thought it was a four star effort. I must say it didn't enter my '97 innagural ten best list..was a close call though. ;)

That was a strong year for film I seem to recall.

[JonathanLB]

I am pretty sure that if I went back and actually watched the top films of '97, it might not make my top 10, well, perhaps it would. I don't really know. I suppose it probably would, but I don't love it THAT much. I did really enjoy it when I first saw it...

'97 was a very good year, though L.A. Confidential is still the best film of that year, grr... The only movie ever to win Best Picture from all 11 major critics circles. I only have now realized in the last few years how impossible that truly is to do. Yet it failed to win Best Picture... because of... A BOAT! :)

[CMJ]

"LA Confidential" was my #3 film of '97. But the top 3 are all dear to my heart - even today.

For reference, my top 3 of 1997 were...

1. Titanic
2. Amistad
3. LA Confidentaial

[JonathanLB]

You are a big Spielberg fan lately, like me, haha. Amistad was a great film, I thought, totally underappreciated...

If The Game came out in 1997, which I believe it did (The Truman Show was 1998 if I remember), but I'm too lazy to spend 5 seconds looking it up, then that'd be my favorite film of 1997. Up until Gladiator, The Game remained my all-time favorite movie outside of the SW Saga. It is still #2 until somehow it gets knocked off.

[Sene Unty]

The Game was a great movie. Absolute shocker of an ending.

[JonathanLB]

The ending is what got me. I cannot really explain exactly why the film caught me so much, but I later realized Fincher is one of my favorite directors with Fight Club, The Game, and Se7en, not to mention I'm one of the few people who likes Alien 3 -- even Fincher disowned that movie (shame... it was a return to the original style and a great film, I still thought).

I saw The Game four times in theaters. The first time I was totally blown away because I had never reversed a rating for a movie so rapidly. I thought up until the ending that it was maybe a 2.5 star film. Then with the ending, I promptly gave it 4 and was already thinking it was one of the best movies I had ever seen at that point, LOL. I saw it three more times and appreciated the rest of the film more, in context with the ending and whatnot.

I guess I don't like "The Rules," because "The Game" is great, but "The Rules of the Game" is just ok ;)

[Sanis Prent]

If you think that Troopers ripped on Triumph, try watching Star Wars again :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with CMJ, actually the writers even admit it. The whole government in Troopers seemed very nazi like the way they acted etc. Actually the book is really a rip on Fascism as I recall. I never watched the whole thing though, I watched what I had to the thing kinds of sickens me in some way to think how they were planning to murder millions.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
If you think that Troopers ripped on Triumph, try watching Star Wars again :)

Well the Empire was definitely influenced by Nazi Germany, however "Starsip Troopers" takes blatant use of scenes out of Leni Riefenstahl's film.

[Sanis Prent]

The final "victory scene" in ANH is ripped straight from Triumph

[CMJ]

Possible, but I've seen other films have similar scenes. Lucas might have been influenced by Riefenstahl indirectly.

I found the ending of AOTC to be the only real straight out homage to "Triumph".

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah you are right there CMJ with all the stormtroopers and such plus Palpatine does remind me of Hitler in that scene.

[JonathanLB]

Definitely the way Palpatine surveys the troops at the end of AOTC is straight from Triumph of the Will. I thought it was before I even saw the movie, or rather not "from Triumph," but from Nazi Germany in general. Lucas wants the historical connections to exist, between WWII and SW, but also between classical mythology and SW, between ancient Rome and SW, etc.

[JediBoricua]

An anthropologist I know who uses Star Wars in his classes was talking to me yesterday about this movie.

He actually says that 'Triumph' was copied in Citizen Kane (haven't seen it), Star Wars with the ending scene in both ANH and AoTC, and in the scen where Saruman addresses the Uruk-hai in TTT before they leave for Helm's Deep.

I must rent this doc.

[CMJ]

I think the Kane reference is almost incidental. Orson Welles might not have even seen it. I'm not sure if "Triumph" even made it's way over here until around 1940(I'm not sure it coulda gotten here sooner, I really am clueless), which is when "Kane" was being shot.

[JonathanLB]

CMJ is right; the marketing of the film outside of Germany was terrible and nearly nobody saw it in any other countries before WWII. Honestly I think it would have made everyone more alert if people had seen it. It's pretty clear from that documentary that Germany has formed a military state ready and willing for action, united behind Hitler, and posing a great threat to the entire world.

It's stunning more people didn't see that coming.

What really makes me mad is all of these idiotic anti-war protesters over Iraq, and I'm not talking the people who REALLY believe we shouldn't attack them (I actually might agree, up to a point), but I'm talking about the people who refuse war NOT because it is wrong in this case, but because they think war is ALWAYS wrong, and those people are IMMORAL. Anyone who did not want to enter the war in Europe during World War II when Hitler was committing terrible atrocities to the Jewish people is partly responsible for allowing such evil to exist in the world. It was immoral of any of them not to DEMAND that the U.S. fight for humanity. It's not just in this world today to allow innocent people to die in such mass numbers and say, "Not my business." NO! It IS your business, YOU are on this Earth, THOSE are your fellow humans, it's YOUR business!!! Same goes with Iraq. Opposing action is fine, that is one thing, I personally thought we were too harsh about our rhetoric at the start and was anti-war back in November or so. Now I am neutral, but leaning towards war because we have given fair warning, we have given him every chance to comply and he hasn't, so now the time has come for action. The U.S. is morally justified to act if, by not acting, a greater evil is likely to result.

That was the case in WWII. People protested that war before the Japanese hit us, too. People protest everything. Those people who would protest entering a war and helping their fellow humans are not just immoral but unjust and don't deserve to be taken seriously.

[Darth23]

And yet, the US didn't enter the war directly for TWO YEARS after it officially started, and several years after Hitler started going after the Jews, Gypsies, Communists, and homosexuals.

If fact there was a famous casue fo a ship full of Jewish refugees trying to escape Hitler that wasn't allowed to land in ANY other country, including those who later fought against Hitler.

Just becuase the US eventually got into the war against hte guy commiting genocide on a massive scale, that doesn't mean that was the REASON we got into the war.


Most wars, even the 'just' ones are never really fought for 'humanitarian' reasons.

[CMJ]

I was pretty sure about that. I know right before Capra started the "Why we Fight Series"(which I also own) he saw "Triumph" for the very first time. So we might not have gotten our hands on it till late 1941.