I absolutely hate commies...

[Keerrourri Feessaarro]

...for so many reasons.

Not only because they wish to incite violent revolution all over the world, and with the same hand fund, organize, and support "Peace Marches" around the world to keep Iraq from being liberated. No, that is a very small tip of a very large iceberg.

Not only because their economic and political ideology is based on kindergarten logic and starry-eyed idealism, in which mankind is not inherently selfish, but inherently compassionate and collectivistic.

Not only because they couldn't cut economics courses in college, and changed to political science, or worse...quit school to join a band so they could "free Mumia" :rolleyes

The main reason I hate commies is that they are marginally illiterate hacks, who overuse the terms like proletariat, bourgeoisie, and revolution. They are fawning sheep that worship the likes of Frederick Engels and Karl Marx, two dead guys who also couldn't write their way out of a wet paper sack.

My POS Western Civ teacher, in his infinite wisdom, has assigned me to read "The Condition of the Working Class in England" as well as "The Communist Manifesto". I want to slit my wrists with a spoon. I'd get more flavor out of this drivel if they also hooked me up to a bran muffin IV drip. These guys write paragraph-long sentences, scream about circular logic, and essentially see how many times they can repeat the same example over and over without the reader getting wise to the act.

Ach, zee Bourgeoisie ist expandink! Zee Proletariat must rise against zee oppressors!

I hate this. 60 pages of manure on text, and I have to write a coherent explanation for it by Friday morning! Why couldn't they assign me Mein Kampf. As bad as Hitler is at writing, at least he's funny about sucking as an author. Marx sucks, but can't even make me laugh about it. He's so damn boring, I want to slap my mother for allowing me to be born and subsequently read this crap!

[TheHolo.Net]

Polictical discussions are not allowed in OOC.

[Sanis Prent]

They aren't O_o since when?

[TheHolo.Net]

For quite a long time now. They have never done anything but become flame fests. and the title of "I hate commies" is flamebait in a big way.

[CMJ]

Just thought I'd add, I LIKED "The Communist Manifesto". I don't think you have to agree with the idea's of an argument to enjoy the book. I sure as heck don't believe in socialism, but I found it to be a fascinating read.

On the same token, I can see why this would be moved. This thread is just a time bomb waiting to happen.

[Sanis Prent]

I can think of half a dozen of recent, off the top of my head that haven't resorted to flames and have been carried out quite well. They may get heated, but never moreso than anything else here. I really object to this :\

[TheHolo.Net]

And it was less than a couple weeks ago I had to close a thread in OOC that had gone from a simple discussion of the State of the Union Address degenerating into a flame fest with no one repecting the opinions of others. Objection noted, but the topic stays here.

[Sanis Prent]

Is this supported whatsoever in the FAQ? I can understand wanting to control flames, but I don't think being selectively pre-emptive is a good idea at all. This same meter stick could be applied to dozens of threads, where the "possibility" and not the "actuality" of trouble exists.

[TheHolo.Net]

Ask Navaria about it some time, she will support what I am saying, and for recent precident see the last post in this thread.

http://sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27011

[Sanis Prent]

My strong disagreement stands, but I'll let it rest, I suppose. This is not a good trend.

[TheHolo.Net]

Its not a trend, it has been around for a long time, since before we left the old ezboard.

[Sanis Prent]

If that's the case (it was not my prior knowledge) it is enforced in a very piecemeal manner. If we're going to do this, its gonna have to be an all or nothing deal.

[TheHolo.Net]

Please show me the threads you speak of.

[Sanis Prent]

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27483

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27585

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27535

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27304

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27209

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27031

http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27015

Probably more, but I didn't scour too hard.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with Orge first that thread is trouble I mean the title is I hate commies and he is talking about marchers and stuff, those people aren't techincally communist it be like me saying that all ultraconservatives are Nazis. So that thread was in real bad taste. Second I think political discussion are okay if they are discussed in a peaceful manner. Lately though there have been certain peope, I know the ones in Box office, don't know the names in OCC, who have been getting a little too into it using sware words flaming people that kind of stuff, so I can see the problem. Not sure what to do about especially if a war does start, maybe we should issue a warning that if you discuss, discuss it nicely and if anybody flames anybody they get suspended that would put a stop to it.

[Taylor Millard]

*sigh*

You know I love politics. I love discussing politics, but only with those who can defend their beliefs well (Charley, Terran, I'd like to think me)

I don't mind conversing about it, but I think it might be time to declare a moratorium on political discussion for the time being.

I'll add more inna sec I gotta rebootn ow.

[Sanis Prent]

Carr, please read the beginning again. Not all marchers are communists, but the greater majority of the ones who organize and fund the marches ARE. This is not an unsupported insult, it is a true statement.

And the gist of the thread is bemoaning my assignment to read Marx. Honestly how is that so inflammatory? Even if we were to have red-to-the-core Communists here, so what? Hating a party line is not a flame.

[ReaperFett]

"I HATE AMERICANS"


How is that any different? But someone saying that would (rightly so) have their thread closed.

[Sanis Prent]

Fett, we've gone over this before. Party Line != Nationality.

Besides, even if the grievance was with one line, a simple piecemeal edit would've solved the problem perfectly.

[JMK]

And then an entirely separate debate begins on "Why was my post edited"?

[Sanis Prent]

No, that I could understand. Please don't mock me again.

[JMK]

It wasn't meant to be mocking. Don't be so defensive, I didn't point anything at you. People have complained before about having a post edited, either publicly, or through PM.

[Sanis Prent]

A minor edit to change tone is a different matter than removing an entire thread. Its on the order of severity. If something happens, how can you correct it with as little disruption as possible?

[JMK]

I think the bigger point is that we're trying to prevent things from happening at all. Just because we edit someone's post, doesn't mean it wasn't read by the intended recipient, or by others, who in turn make more incindiary comments. IMO, just because we remove/alter a comment, doesn't mean it wasn't made in the first place and certainly doesn't mean that the damage wasn't done.

[Sanis Prent]

And how on earth is that different from removing a post entirely? People can still see it. The damage is still "done", etc.

[JMK]

Isn't that why political discussions aren't permitted here? Inevitably damage is done, and flame wars ensue. Trying to frantically edit threads and continually tame them down is no good IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Still Sanis, if I said that most ultra conservatives are fascist what would you say? Look that thing inflamatory I don't care if he is complaning about a book assignment, the post start off rambling. Also I don't agree that most of them are communist by the way most of them are college kids, communism is dead their are no more communist except in Cuba, China, Vietnam and North Korea, so to me that is inflamitory to call people communist who aren't.

[Sanis Prent]

Still Sanis, if I said that most ultra conservatives are fascist what would you say?

I'd agree to a good extent.


Also I don't agree that most of them are communist by the way most of them are college kids, communism is dead their are no more communist except in Cuba, China, Vietnam and North Korea, so to me that is inflamitory to call people communist who aren't.

This isn't off the top of my head. Its grounded in fact. Look at the groups SPONSORING (not just participating, but actually organizing) the marches. They are communist, anarchist, etc. Not all, but a significant portion definitely are.

[Sanis Prent]

Isn't that why political discussions aren't permitted here? Inevitably damage is done, and flame wars ensue. Trying to frantically edit threads and continually tame them down is no good IMO.

But this could apply to ANY discussion. The potential for an argument lies everywhere. Assuming the worst and being proactive in all cases isn't a healthy way of tackling the issue.

There is a major distinction between arguing and flaming, and I don't think that such wholesale action on what are essentially just arguments is a productive way of dealing with the situations.

[Sanis Prent]

Let me add, while I'm objecting strongly to the courses of action, I harbor no ill feelings for it. I simply see this as a policy that we need to look into, and examine whether its actually productive. I have the utmost respect for the staffers here, and my objections bear no rancor towards anyone with a dissenting view.

Consider me a Duke fan, I suppose..."I beg to differ" :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

well I am not going to argue about the communist thing, it is just pointless. The problem is to me I see flame war, I mean first you got Jon, I can see him opening his idiotic mouth. Second I am afraid somebody will use the Traitor word over the war, I know me and Jedieb are against it and I know for a fact that if anybody calls Jedieb a traitor he will get very defensive, I know I sure would. I am not saying it will be you I know you wouldn't do that but there posters on the board that I don't know and have no idea if they would use that word. Maybe we need to come out with a statement of something to help in this.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Consider me a Duke fan, I suppose..."I beg to differ" :)


That is comedy gold! One of the greatest chants the Crazies ever came up with.

[Sanis Prent]

Win, lose, or draw....it would be best to put some kind of policy on this in writing, even if it is to say that such things are left to the staff's discretion (the loophole-killer clause).

There's obviously a market for such discussions, however. Would it be too much of a leap to consider making a "Peanut Gallery" forum for such heated issues?

[Jedi Master Carr]

We could but we would need rules like no flaming
and stuff like that

[Sanis Prent]

But otherwise nix the pre-emptive stuff?

[CMJ]

A blanket loophole statement would be ideal IMHO. That means if we *think* a thread is going south we COULD pull it, but leave the possibility open that a "good" argument thread could survive.

[Jedi Master Carr]

well in box office i have let threads go until they reach the bolling point like the one with Jon trashing the French that one was getting nasty that is when I feel they have to be closed.

[TheHolo.Net]

Yes, this rule is specific to the OOC forum because of the forum's past history with heated political discussion. Most of the links Sanis gave are parodies or requests for information and thus not "heated" political discussions.

FAQ rule addition proposal


-Heated political discussions are not allowed in the OOC forum and will be closed at the discretion of the staff.

[CMJ]

Sounds good to me.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*blink*

Should we allow discussion of current events, even though they are political by nature?

[JMK]

I'm good with that. Let it go till it turns south, then yank it.

[TheHolo.Net]

Thats why the words "heated" and "discretion" work well within that FAQ addition. If something gets heated, we have FAQ backing to close it.

[Sanis Prent]

:thumbup

[Taylor Millard]

I'm cool wtih it.