Doesn't this seem childish?

[Sanis Prent]

Chirac blasts eastern Europeans over pro-American stance, warns on EU membership
Mon Feb 17, 5:45 PM ET
By PAUL AMES, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - French President Jacques Chirac launched a withering attack Monday on eastern European nations who signed letters backing the U.S. position on Iraq, warning it could jeopardize their chances of joining the European Union (news - web sites).


"It is not really responsible behavior," he told a news conference. "It is not well brought up behavior. They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet."


Chirac was angered when EU candidates Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic joined pro-U.S. EU members such as Britain, Spain and Italy last month in a letter supporting Washington's line on Iraq against the more dovish stance of France and Germany.


Paris was further upset when 10 other eastern European nations signed a similar letter a few days later.


France argued that the moves aggravated splits in the 15-nation EU and backed the ideas put forward by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld who had earlier spoke of France and Germany as "old Europe" in contrast to the easterners seeking to join the EU and NATO (news - web sites).


"Concerning the candidate countries, honestly I felt they acted frivolously because entry into the European Union implies a minimum of understanding for the others," Chirac told reporters after an emergency EU summit on Iraq.


He warned the candidates the position could be "dangerous" because the parliaments of the 15 EU nations still have to ratify last December's decision for 10 new members to join the bloc on May 1, 2004.


Chirac particularly warned Romania and Bulgaria, who are still negotiating to enter the bloc in 2007.


"Romania and Bulgaria were particularly irresponsible to (sign the letter) when their position is really delicate," Chirac said. "If they wanted to diminish their chances of joining Europe they could not have found a better way."


Britain, Spain and other EU nations had suggested the candidate nations attend Monday's emergency summit on Iraq, but France and Germany opposed the idea.


Although Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) were the driving forces behind the letter backing America and EU members Italy, Denmark and Portugal also signed up, Chirac saved his wrath for the candidates.


"When you're in the family you have more rights than when you're knocking on the door," he said.


Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Cyprus and Malta are set to join in May 2004. Lagging behind economically, Romania and Bulgaria were told to wait three more years.


Instead of attending the EU summit, the candidates are due to travel to Brussels Tuesday for a briefing on its outcome by Greece, which currently holds the EU presidency.


Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis denied they had been excluded from the summit because of their backing for Washington, insisting rules require the treaties be signed first.


"We will not discuss pro-American or anti-American positions," Simitis told a news conference. "The candidate countries will be members" soon, and "we have to proceed together."

Blackmail? So soon! Nice moral high ground you've got there!

[Marcus Telcontar]

one thing i agree on with you is that chirac is being an asshat.

[Sanis Prent]

Well...he's at least the better candidate for the job. I can't remember the name of the guy who ran against him last year, but he was about the biggest blaring anti-semite I've seen in politics since Mr. H. himself.

Crazy Neo-Vichy dickheads aside, is Chirac sane? I mean, he's made Rumsfeld's "Old Europe" look like a kiss on the cheek. What the hell?!?

[Darth Viscera]

Christ, Chirac sounds like a venomous character.


"It is not well brought up behavior. They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet."

More like "I am a control freak, you darn well better keep your mouth shut and stay in your corner."

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

Anyone else notice this fits almost exactly into Revelations? You know, the whole coming of the Anti-Christ Shing-dig? The old former powers United in this EU thing, the continued trouble in the middle east? Fits like a Glove. And lets not forget the plan by the U.S. to mark the people. You know, those bio-chips things you read about in Popular Science.

Just saying, we can all thank France for being total idiots and bringing about the end of the world.

[Sanis Prent]

In response to the Franco-German blockage of protection for a NATO member, the North American Mission Board (NAMB) of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has unilaterally called for a boycott of French Wines and German Beer. Citing their press release, they ask the members of their denomination to avoid these products "with the same devotion given to [their] effort to shut down Euro-Disney."

French Wine - Check.

German Beer - NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

(Goes to make angry phone calls)

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Zakatiel Rhinehart
And lets not forget the plan by the U.S. to mark the people. You know, those bio-chips things you read about in Popular Science.

/me looks at Zakatiel.

/me brandishes 2x4.

/me smashes Zakatiel.

/me repeat.

/me repeat.

/me repeat.

/me repeat.

/me repeat.

/me go to hardware store, for new 2x4.

PLEASE STOP WITH THE RIGHT-WING BIO CHIP CRAP!

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

Wait... You didn't think I agree with it? I just stating it as one of the signs of the Acopalypse. And I ain't paying for that 2 X 4.
I against it totally.

[Sanis Prent]

You mentioned it. And mentioning it is like saying "Beetlejuice" or "Candyman". Its only a matter of how many times its mentioned before you invite monsters (Ultra-Right) here.

I swear, there needs to be a 3 dimensional political scale. People hear "Moderate Right" (me) and think "Ultra-Right" (crazy people). The left doesn't have this problem, because no matter how crazy and screwy in the head you are, its all about peace, love, and tolerance, and accepting your insanity that is beautiful and unique as a snowflake, just like the rest of the world. At least on my side of the coin, I can fess up and admit that I would much prefer to AVOID my far-wing allies :x

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

I seriously doubt just by mentioning how Bio-Chips are one of the signs of the end of the world is really going to summon it any faster. Cause you know its coming. And when It does, I will drop myself out of society, so long PC, so Long TV, I will disappear from the system.

[Sanis Prent]

I won't get into a debate here about the interpretations of Revelations, suffice to say that I think such an overt sign as "bio chips" is utterly laughable.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Anyone else notice this fits almost exactly into Revelations?

The book is called Revelation. Singular, not plural. The coming of Chrsit is all one event, not many events.

I just wanted to correct that. It's a pet peeve of mine.

Secondly, if you really want to get religious, these may all be signs of the Apocalypse, but even so, it may take many more centuries for all of these things to happen. No one knows exactly when the Apocalypse will happen, and for the sake of all the people on his board, please do not talk about it. I realize that I am not a moderator, but these kinds of thoughts are very frightening, and confusing. Besides, I think religious discussions are one of the things on the "don't do" list.

[Admiral Lebron]

Pfft. Apocalypse. Ha!

[Morgan Evanar]

But I like beer. And the Germans make it good. :(

[Wei Wu Wei]

Back to this whole political thing. Why do France and Germany not want war on Iraq? I mean, do they have any economic, or political reasons? I mean, I'm all up for the "Let's just not fight at all" policy, but it often does not work that way in governments.

[Sanis Prent]

Simple. Ignore Southern Baptist Boycotts :)

(This coming from a Baptist)

However, boycotting the French shouldn't cramp my style much. I hate wine, can't stomach stinky cheese, and the Peugeot is a horrible horrible car. Bottled water is the biggest scam on earth, and I rarely like movies that get buzz at Cannes. And ounce for ounce, my cologne is cheaper than my liquor, a-thank you!

[Sanis Prent]

Why do France and Germany not want war on Iraq? I mean, do they have any economic, or political reasons? I mean, I'm all up for the "Let's just not fight at all" policy, but it often does not work that way in governments.

To borrow a bandwagoned anti-US jab: Oil.

France and Germany import Iraqi oil. They don't want the valves cut off by declaring war.

[ReaperFett]

Why do France and Germany not want war on Iraq?
Argue it a different way. Why do a rumoured 70% of Britain not want war?

And hey, with some of the idiots the US Government allows to speak, the US agrguments FOR war look weaker and weaker. I was 100% for before they started speaking. Now Im about 65%

[Sanis Prent]

Are you putting on earmuffs to listen to France? I think Rumsfeld is a public relations disaster and a rube, but he's an almighty saint compared to some of the snafu's that Paris and to a lesser extent Berlin are making.

[ReaperFett]

But the Cherac isnt getting on the news. All we get is Rumsfeld telling us that Bulgaria will soon rule Europe and Powell (col-IN;)) constantly saying he has conclusive proof.....in three weeks. And then two, one, then more in three weeks.....Instead of just giving it when he has it.

[Sanis Prent]

Chirac is most definitely on the news...playing Michael Corleone to Bulgaria's Fredo. Parity in outrage is an issue though. You get more sensationalism with Anti-American sentiment on page one, and with Anti-French sentiment on page 8.

Yeah, Rumsfeld has labeled Germany and France as "old europe".

The French Foreign minister called George Bush "the new Hitler"

Which is the bigger diplomacy snafu?

Also, I find it a heinous bit of hippocrisy that a French official would do that, considering the pall of anti-semitism their country is doing nothing about. You can land planes in Marseilles by navigating around the synagogue fires.

[ReaperFett]

Chirac is most definitely on the news
You get the UK news then? :)

[Sanis Prent]

IN-TER-NET!

y'know, those .com/uk things. Yeah. I get those. Lets not stop there. Pick a country, any country. Hell, the most scathing stuff I'm finding is coming from (gasp) FRANCE. How ironic, an anti-French Frenchman. Got a few dozen British blurbs, at least one riotously biting Canadian article, etc etc etc.

If I figure out how to translate Pakistani, I might be able to do you one better.

[ReaperFett]

Silly me, you know UK news more than me. How could I think otherwise? ;)

[Sanis Prent]

Fett, would you like me to find this very issue I'm discussing on some British media, so you will shut your yap? I'm pretty sure I've got an article from the BBC on it somewhere.

[Sanis Prent]

<a href=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2774139.stm>The Godfather: Part Four</a>

There you go. BBC coverage of Chirac being a King Kamehameha Dickweed

[ReaperFett]

going to make it two reports? From a different source? :)

[Sanis Prent]

Sure I can do that. If the Associated Press isn't good enough for you, I'll be back with another one :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Why do a rumoured 70% of Britain not want war?Emphasis added.

[ReaperFett]

This is correct. Rumoured. However, the best pro-war vote is 52. We've even seen 90 against. 60-70 is a middle figure.

[Sanis Prent]

Provide some data on those polls please. Sample size, poll conductor, poll financeer, etc :)

[Sanis Prent]

<a href=http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/16/wirq16.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/02/16/ixnewstop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=39707>Paydirt, from the Telegraph</a>

(Note: May be required to sign up for access)


In the meantime, Bulgaria has vowed to resist French attempts to bully it into withdrawing support for America's plans to disarm Iraq. Last week the French ambassador to Sofia warned Bulgaria that its pro-American stance could jeopardise its efforts to join the European Union.

"Bulgaria has to consider carefully where its long-term interests lie," Jean Loup Kuhn-Delforge said last week. "When people live in Europe they should express solidarity and think European-style."

Solomon Pasi, Bulgaria's foreign minister, condemned the French as neo-appeasers. "We all remember the hesitancy of the Allies, who weren't sure whether to attack Hitler. They could have prevented so much," he said.

"We're in a situation where we have a moral imperative to act and act now."

[ReaperFett]

provide proof that that report is accurate :)







Ironic how we talk, considering the thread title ;)

[Sanis Prent]

You asked for alternate sources. Thats the best confirmation you'll get, short of working for the government and seeing it for yourself.

As for polls, those can at least be shown to be legit through math. First question you must always ask when shown a poll is "Show me the Money!" Who paid for this poll, and why is it important to them. From there, look at sample size, randomization, confidence intervals and margin of error. Done correctly and impartially, a poll is an effective tool. However, these things are notorious tools of special interest groups. There are entire firms of statisticians that prostitute their work to provide misleading statistics to those with the money to pay for it.

[ReaperFett]

First question you must always ask when shown a poll is "Show me the Money!"
Money corrupts :)

[Sanis Prent]

That is my point. Usually, the group paying for the poll has a biased interest staked in its results.

This is not abnormal. It happens ALL THE TIME. Every day in my business statistics course, we'd dig up a newspaper article, touting a privately-funded poll that was then reported as fact.

[Darth Viscera]

Iraqi-Americans give standing ovation to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/23/sprj.irq.iraq.wolowitz/index.html)

[Sanis Prent]

I'd read that before. Very cool.