Arguments happen

[Sanis Prent]

But that doesn't mean that they should be closed. I see nothing wrong with the current argument, stalemated as it may be. Why was it closed???

[JMK]

The thread is bordering on offensive.

[CMJ]

Well for one, it was closed at the request of me and Kyle earlier today but was mysteriously reopened. I'm sure you thought since Taylor wasn't the mod there that's why you could reopen it, but he okayed it through both of us.

That right there is enough of a reason. It should've been closed all day.

[Sanis Prent]

I strongly suggest that in the future, we footnote thread closures here, and at least provide some information on them. Better yet, consult other moderators if they are online at the time? It's one thing if no one else is online, but that's an outlet that should be used if available.

[JMK]

I think the problem is that the thread was no longer progressing and that nothing constructive was being posted any more. The only direction left for that thread to go was straight to the outhouse. So a few of us took the initiative to close it before it got to that point. We do have a history of taking too long to come to a decision in that particular forum, so we figured best pull the trigger before something bad happens.

[CMJ]

Okay Charley. I don't mean to be a jerk and if I came off that way I'm sorry. Kyle, Layton, and I are really the mods that run stuff over there. We don't mean to tick anyone else off, but the 2 of us is kind of a majority. We sorta thought we had the right. If not I apologize.

Agreed in the future communication would be better, but do we really need to know everytime a RP thread is closed? Are you guys really that interested everytime we close a thread? If so, then that's what we should do, but if not I think perhaps we should all trust each other.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I should have closed it last night after the thread took an offensive turn, I tried to get hold of CMJ but I guess you were busy. Really it should have been closed after Jon's ugly ethnic slur, and that other poster, forget his name vulgar post, it had nothing to do with the argument it was the way some people, Jon, Marcus and (can't think of the one with the Dean Cain Avatar) were sprouting slurs and vulgarity we don't want that type of stuff on the board.

[Sanis Prent]

Was it not enough that warnings were given and edits were done? It seems gratuitous, especially in the light that since that spat, its toned down.

[JMK]

They always tone down, just to escalate again. Fact is, there is nothing constructive that can be gained from that thread. Everyone has dug in their stances and it was just going to degenerate.

[CMJ]

Charley, once again I don't wanna be a bad guy. BUT, now even Layton has come on and said that he wants it closed. The thread wasn't really serving any useful purpose anymore.

I think I can speak for all of us when I say we want the thread closed. If you really have an issue with it I'm sorry. As a moderator yourself you should understand how we feel.

[Sanis Prent]

No, that is an opinion. Not a fact.

(sigh)

But if you want to maintain jurisdiction, then that's fine. I'll refrain from trying to work with threads that are predestined to be closed anyway.

[JMK]

Can you honestly say that the thread was a useful one? If so, then on what basis? To me and the others, it was going in circles and it was just a matter of time before the ticking time bomb goes off. It's an incident we can avoid before it starts, because it certainly will.

[Sanis Prent]

If we closed every thread that had no use, this place would evaporate like a flambee'.

What is the harm in an irreconcilable argument? I am in it to at least gauge what others think, and sort out the reasonable arguments from ones that I don't think have merit. Sure, its not likely to have a conclusion, but so long as its kept in check, who cares? Keep individuals from getting riled up, but don't spoil it for everyone on that account.

At any rate, here's your ball, and I'm in the wrong sandbox. So I'll leave you guys be, and take my hot topics elsewhere.

[Sanis Prent]

To clarify, that isn't a barb at you guys. Its just a professional difference I suppose.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Its not that Sanis, its the people who are throwing the insults, namely Jon and that Dean Cain guy, and even Marcus. I should have closed it last night I guess when the vuglarity started and especially after Jon entered the fray. That is what we are worried about. I am sure that somebody will start another Iraq thread soon, but that thread especially the last 1/3 of it had a lot of hatred rising, from several posters and it could have gotten worse.

[JMK]

Kept in check? So we should have all eyes on it at all times sifting for potentially over-the-top comments? Then we can erase them and pretend they never happened? I don't see the point. Some topics are probably better off discussed in IM or PM.

[ReaperFett]

Just so you know, I PMed the Dean Cain guy yesterday about his language, and he apologised :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I saw that he edited the post still that was a lot of sware words in that post. At least he apologized, which we can't say in Jon's case :p

[ReaperFett]

Yeah, he was genuinly apologetic, saying he will never mind if I edit his post for language :)

[JMK]

007 - License to Edit.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I told Mark off a few days ago on AIM because he was trying to talk to me about how wrongly America is going about the "war" and double standards and the like.

I stay out of threads like that on purpose. I know little to nothing about what's going on. I am one person, and I happen to be American. Should I have to answer for my country's foreign policy? Do I have the answers to why 1 million protestors must be wrong? Or why they're right?

Do any of us? We're not the UN here. We're not solving the world's problems, if anything, threads like that just divide our community more. I support the closing, and it IS your guys' forum, so do what you like.

I would never take it upon myself to re-open a thread that has been closed, and I would expect someone to check with me or another mod of a forum I was a mod at before they re-opened one I'd closed. Common courtesy. I also would not close a thread in the SW forums. I have been known to correct spoiler tags though. :mischief

Now, lets not fight amongst ourselves.

[CMJ]

Nice objective post Holly.

[Sanis Prent]

Except that it wasn't closed by them. It was closed by Taylor, and I wasn't told of such approval until post facto.

And Holly, you don't have to answer. You have the ability to refuse comment, like anyone else here. Avoiding issues because they're controversial is foolhearty. That's all I'll say on that.

[ReaperFett]

Sanis, you're not a Mod in there though. Surely it's between the four Mods that there are?

[Sanis Prent]

Fett, I'll post one more time. Read this one.

TAYLOR (not a Mod there) closed the thread. I asked why, since I'd edited profanity from some of the more offensive posts. He did not mention the other Box Office Mods, and thus, it seemed that it was just done in his judgment. I told him that I'd edited the veiled profanity, and he didn't object to keeping the thread open. There was not even an inkling of involvement from elsewhere until the next day when it was closed the 2nd time.

So, the issue of the four mods deciding this wasn't even known at the time.

Communication, people!

[CMJ]

Once again, I apologize. We'll try and do better next time, especially if it's thread you frequent. ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Useful note: When closing a thread, leave a post right at the bottom explaining what you're doing.

Such as: (taylor) "I am closing this thread on the reccomendation of the mods of this forum because you guys can't play nice."

Of course, I don't understand why Taylor had to close the thread if mods from those forum's were online, but if in hindsight everyone was actually informed (except for Sanis) it seems to be kosher enough.

And I don't avoid issues because they're controversial, if I did, I'd of stayed out of the religion thread. I avoid issues I am not well informed on, so as not to prove that I'm an idiot.

[Sanis Prent]

By avoidance, I was referring to the wholesale refusal of such matters to be discussed, not the individual choice to abstain.

[CMJ]

A dig at me again. ;) You must not like me very much. ;)

[Sanis Prent]

No dig intended. Its obviously a difference in policy opinion.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I thought about it closing it Sunday night because of Jon and the profanity being sprawled about. The thread was too hostile, but I wanted the opinion of CMJ and JMK, JMK was not online and CMJ was busy and couldn't get back to me. Well by the time I got online the thread was edited then I heard about complaints and such that is about the time CMJ edited the thread. Hey I have nothing against talking about Iraq, I don't want the board to turn into the a civil war over it so if we can have peaceful discussion about it that that is cool, but their are some people, Jon, and I guess Marcus and I am sure there are others who can't do that or at least not in that thread.

[Taylor Millard]

I stayed out of this because I didn't want to appear to be acting emotionally.

I'm still trying to stay out of it because unfortunately, anything I say will look like an emotional reaction and I don't want that.

Originally, I saw what the thread looked like and closed it (mainly because none of the Box Office Mods were online). But then I made a thread here in the Mod forum addressed to the Mods as to why I closed it.

For some odd reason, the thread didn't close. So I PMed JMK asking the thread to be closed 'cause I saw him logged in.

Then I saw that I had been the only person to look at my explanation thread, so I deleted it (Hence why it doesn't exist).

I then, 30 minutes later I think, saw CMJ online. Instead of PMing him, I signed on Yahoo and asked him to close the thread.

CMJ said his Mod functions weren't working, so I asked if I could close the thread. He said yes so I did.

Then I got the reply from JMK that closing the thread was all right (I don't think I have the PM 'cause I deleted it).

Charley IMs me saying I shouldn't have closed it. I told him to use his best judgement.

I apologize for any problems with this as it has obviously caused them.

[Sanis Prent]

If anything, it'll just be a reminder to keep communication trails in here, so that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing, and we can eliminate redundancy, etc

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
If anything, it'll just be a reminder to keep communication trails in here, so that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing, and we can eliminate redundancy, etc Agreed.

Even if you post in your own thread in here multiple times with no replies from anyone else, saying what actions were taken, having a place for all of the staff to look and see whats up is a very good thing and should be done if there is no explanation in the closed thread itself.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Can we actually delete entire threads? I thought we couldn't.

Wait, that's at Meras.... ??

[Jedi Master Carr]

We could move a thread here if it was something that we didn't want anybody to see, right? I agree if we close a thread post it here that way we know why that is the easiest way to do it.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Can we actually delete entire threads? I thought we couldn't.

Wait, that's at Meras.... ?? Its different here......kind of Group mods (Role Playing group mods) cannot delte threads, while SW and RP category section mods can because you are supermods according to the vB software, giving you all the ability to moderate posts anywhere on the boards, which includes the deletion of entire threads, which I highly discourage, moving them here is much more useful most times so as to keep a clean "paper trail" of evidence.

All mods at Meras are the same as group mods here.