Force Lightning

[Inu]

IIRC, this is one of the strongest techniques a darksider can use, correct? And something like only high level knights and masters can use it, not apprentices? Also, is it possible to defend this attack with a lightsaber? I can't remember at the moment; it's been a while since I've had to deal with the move.

[Morgan Evanar]

Damn straight.

[Loki Ahmrah]

(Points to AOTC)

[Inu]

:lol Well that about sums it up. Thanks you two.

[Alpha]

Since my question involves lightning, I'll steal your thread for a moment, kay? :)

In the books, there is a second kind of lightning. Non-lethal, but Jacen, a Jedi, is using it. How do you guys look upon that tech?

[Zeke]

Non-lethal lightside lightning? Never considered such a thing as that...I'm not sure what to think. Oh, and feel free to borrow the thread.

[Morgan Evanar]

Lightning involves an awful lot of wiz-bang. I suppose if you were attuned to types of energy fields you could pull some low draw current .

[Dasquian Belargic]

Also, is it possible to defend this attack with a lightsaber?

It's probably a specific technique, like Absorb/Dissapate energy or something like that.

[Sanis Prent]

That would be Yoda's ability. Obiwan seems to use something much simpler.

[Zeke]

It looked like he just blocked with his lightsaber...though it might've been a different technique. It's been too long since I saw AOTC.

[Sanis Prent]

Correct. That's all he did.

[Alpha]

Lightning-rod sabre. :)

So, the light side lightning might go along the same lines as a Jedi who can control weathe calling down lightning, albeit, not that intesne.

[Senator Jesphal]

I dont think that Yoda even use lightning, I believe he countered it by throwing it back at him. It sort of hinted it by his strain with his hand moving back, meaning he was holding it from hurting him and then he threw it back at the enemy. (Count Dooku.)

[Zeke]

|I Ok...I let her slide on the Lightning because you guys say I can block it with my weapon...but this is the end of it.

http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27256

What do I do about this? Exploded my weapon? Riiiight...

[Evil Hobgoblin]

The Jedi have a technique where they catch Force lightning on the blade of their lightsaber and stop it cold, though the only Force usage that seems to occur is the precognition needed to place the blade properly. The technique is used twice to my knowledge, once in AOTC where everybody saw what happens and once in the EU book "Dark Force Rising" by Tim Zahn. In both of these instances, no harm comes to the blade of the wielder.

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

force lighting is easily deflected, but what if you couple it with another attack? A Force shove, or blast like Maul used in TPM?
So would it be possible to use both moves almost at the same time? A force lightning blast?

Another thing, Lightning is instant, speed of light type of thing. So if the enemy has no feeling of an attack, there would be no way to stop it. For it is already hitting ya

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

um, given what I know about it, no she couldn't explode it, the blade is meant to handle a berserker using it so no, I wouldn't think so and besides isn't an apprentice not powerful enough to use force lightning?

[Zeke]

Dea lacks the power to even create the Force Lightning, but being the nice guy I am, I let her go. This is a great discussion though. :)

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

hmm, okies, just saying if the blade can handle being thrown around by a berserker, I don't think even a master's FL would break it, it's meant to stand up to a lot of wear and tear.....

[Wei Wu Wei]

Well, thing is, lightning isn't necessarily LIGHT, it's electrically charge particles too. It's electricity in the sky. Electricity, as far as I can remember from physics is not as fast as actual light, so there is a chance that a Jedi, or Sith can block the lightning.

[Jamel Croko'yn]

I think we shouldn't allow Padawan to do the block, only if he is very expirenced and probably a week or a month away from being a Jedi Knight. I think only Jedi Knight or Jedi Master should have the ability to use the lightsaber as a defensive sword against the Force lightning.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Jamel: Actually, blocking Force Lightning with a lightsaber is probably one of the first things Jedi who grow up in trouble times learn, second only to deflecting blaster bolts perhaps. The trick is that they will not automatically use it with the practiced deftness a Jedi Knight or Master will.

The reason they would begin their instruction so early is because Force Lightning is a favored power among Dark Siders. To defeat that ability with little effort means that a Padawan can potentially be very effective against a more powerful Knight or Master.

But you are right in your assessment that only people who have practiced the technique would be able to make practical use of it.

[Jamel Croko'yn]

Maybe when training someone to sense you(Jedi Master/Jedi Knight) could tell your Padawan that this ability also coudl be used in combat against a Dark Side Force user. I mean, it wouldn't be realistic if they suddenly have the ability to do it when they never knew anything 'bout the attack being able to be block through those means.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Wei Wu Wei
Well, thing is, lightning isn't necessarily LIGHT, it's electrically charge particles too. It's electricity in the sky. Electricity, as far as I can remember from physics is not as fast as actual light, so there is a chance that a Jedi, or Sith can block the lightning.

It would still involve a healthy amount of precognitive skill on the part of the blocker. An electrical charge still is going to travel, though air, at about 5*10^7 m/s. As far as normal human reflexes are concerned, that's too quick to overcome unless the attack is obvious, or if the person can "sense" it coming.

[Jamel Croko'yn]

Well I think it's clear a Jedi would have to practice, but back to Figrin statement. I think a Jedi would have the ability to had reflexes beyond that of a normal human, but this statement is only relevant if you are implying that Jedi of the human race can't reply to an attack such as this.

[Sanis Prent]

Even improved reflexes are no match for speed like that. Limited precognition is needed.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Even improved reflexes are no match for speed like that. Limited precognition is needed.

correct. reflexes can not cope with an electrical spark. you need to be able to "see" it coming.

jedi's dont have reflexes above and beyond what their race normally possess. they have precognition to various degrees. they simply appear to be so fast, because they "know" what's coming. a jedi learns how to use this precognition (which is also known as the danger sense), to sense what they need to react to.

now, electrical sparks do not "travel" at close to the speed of light - it's much more like speed of sound. i dont know how fast lightning travels - air is a very bad conductor of electricity. i do know it takes about 10,000 volts for a spark to jump one centimetre. volts is the difference in chrage from one point to another. amps is the measure of current, or actual energy travelling at a measured point. amps is what causes the damage. i would say that force lightning isn't all that high on current - a lightning bolt would carry a great deal more.

when i say not that high however, understand any electrical energy with the current to jump that far, would be still more than enough to cause burning, nerve damage and heart failure.

to create and control such energies would take something like a master. i think some jedi masters may well know how to throw it about. a powerful jedi master can deal with it bare handed. a jedi with a sabre only needs to have a good enough danger sense. that would mean a padawan could be good enough. could. doesnt mean would.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I would never have Loki parry lightning with a lightsaber whilst as a padawan. His foresight is developing so the most I'd ever hope to do would be to dodge. It's just as fun to roleplay a character's weaknesses as it is their strengths anyway.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Ah. Thanks Sanis and Marcus, and Figrin for clearing that up. It seems that like the blind men and the elephant, I was partially right, but also completely wrong! :lol Thanks again you guys.

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

So, if you fire off two streams of force lighting, one downward, the other upward, then technically a jedi does not have the reflexes to block both.

[Morgan Evanar]

Or you dodge and block one. Or dodge both. :rolleyes

[Wei Wu Wei]

Or if you carry two lightsabers, block the upper one with a lightsaber, then block the lower one with the other lightsaber. It would be harder to coordinate, I imagine, but it could be done with enough practice.

[Miryan no Trunks]

Yeah, but as it moves just as Lightning, it normally wouldn't just stick to a single little path. It attacks all over, arcing back and forth in a general direction.

I assume because of that that a lightsaber attracts the energy of a force lightning attack, in which case I would say that the energy that would be collected by the saber from holding off the attack like that, would build up inside as the attack continued. It would dissapate again once the attack's over with, but if you were fighting someone strong enough that they could sustain the attack long enough, the person defending would either have to dodge out of the way and get their saber out of the path as well, or face some serious permanent damage to their saber.

As for whether or not Jedi's could use it, I learned of the attack (MnT was taught) that it is basically- the user builds up a considerable amount of dark force energy, collecting it in their hands or whereever they were planning on shooting it from, and then with the force, they essentially ignite it, changing the energy into electricity, and launch it forwards at the same time. A Sith Lord is the earliest rank that a Sith is supposed to learn this attack at, because a person less skilled would not be able to sustain the attack, nor would they be powerful enough to stop it from burning them as well as they used it.

[Kelt Simoson]

Would people very strong in the force such as for exsample, Yoda be able to deflect it even with a barrier of some sort?

[Miryan no Trunks]

I think that Yoda used an energy absorption attack. Like what Vader used (if I remember correctly) to defend against the blaster fire in A New Hope. Only differance is the blaster fire would be much weaker than sustained lightning, so it would be much tougher to absorb, and not take damage, which is why Yoda fired it back (on top of wanting to attack with it)

[Sanis Prent]

No way...haven't you ever heard of the "glove of Vader" :rolleyes

[Miryan no Trunks]

Nyope =^

[Marcus Telcontar]

of course yoda would be able to deflect it. it's quite clear force lightning wont touch him.

no, a sabre would not be harmed by lightning. i see no evidence a sabre is damaged when it's blade intersects energy of any sort. if anything, lightning would be 'attracted" to the blade by it's extreme polarities, strike the magnetic forming 'bottle" and dissipate into heat and light. a sabre it seems to me operates at a far higher level of power that lightning achieves anyway. those tiny power packs provide one hell of a lot of power.

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

Can you pump enough energy into a Lightsaber to cause it to overload or fry? Is a Sith master willing to hold on "da power" for that long just to try?

From what I understand, the powerpacks in Lightsabers only last for what, 12 continuous non-stop use before they are drained. I picked up reference of that some where... can someone confirm it?

[Marcus Telcontar]

the problem about pumping energy into a sabre is... the blade it'self is created with a hell of a lot of energy. i could probably come up with a fairly good proof that all your doing is taking the load of the power cells by giving the plasma charge an alternate heat source.

but dinner calls and frankly, the power of a sith is nothing compared to the power of a adam's special pizza from up the road.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Originally posted by Zakatiel Rhinehart

From what I understand, the powerpacks in Lightsabers only last for what, 12 continuous non-stop use before they are drained. I picked up reference of that some where... can someone confirm it?

Complete fallacy. A lightsaber never loses energy unless it strikes another object. A lightsaber can last years without recharging.

[Helenias Evenstar]

I love how we can discuss something that doesn't exist, hardly defined and try to work out what it will and won't do.

;)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Ah yes, but I referred to the official website and theforce.net for my source information. :p

[Wei Wu Wei]

Ok, now that we have mentioned a lightsaber being drained of power, out of curiosity I am compelled to ask

How do you recharge a lightsaber?

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Loki Ahmrah
Complete fallacy. A lightsaber never loses energy unless it strikes another object.

And that is total BS as well, because it completely violates the laws of thermodynamics. I don't care if the uber-writers for Lucas or the geekzillas at TF.N say otherwise, it's just flat wrong. And don't give me this "it's a fictious universe, so it can be this way" stuff... you start messing around with enthalpy and entropy, and suddenly you don't have a universe in which any of this can take place.



Sorry... big huge pet peeve of mine.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Fig: Believe in the Force! The Force is responsible! Trust it! Believe! :lol

[Marcus Telcontar]

homer : lisa in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Evil Hobgoblin
Fig: Believe in the Force! The Force is responsible! Trust it! Believe! :lol


I might have, until Lucas decided to fudge everything up with his cheese-ridden, lame Force explanation involving midichlorians.

If he's gonna go science-geek on me, then I'm gonna turn it right back around on him...


BOOYAH, FOO!


:smokin

[Sejah Haversh]

Homer: and that happend when I figured out that the refridgerator is cold.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
And that is total BS as well, because it completely violates the laws of thermodynamics.

Well I'm very sorry but what I said isn't my take on lightsabers, it's what I've read in the past. Plus how many people do you see throwing lightning from their fingertips? I will give you a ficticious universe stuff because that's exactly what it is; I am not prepared to take a degree in physics in order to rearrange the entire Star Wars mythology to make my roleplaying here more appealing to those who study the sciences.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Taken from TheForce.Net

The energy was formed into a tight, parallel beam of coherent packets. These packets are emitted through a positively-charges, continuous energy lens which projects the packets away from the lightsaber. The packets are almost immediately attracted back to the lightsaber by a negatively-charged, high-energy flux aperature, and then continually recycled to create the glowing blade. The packets are recycled by a superconductor back into the power cell for re-energizing. The entire process is completely contained. No energy is lost, since the light in the blade is recaptured. No heat is generated, either. The only energy loss occurs when the blade strikes an object.

[Morgan Evanar]

I could see a lightsaber being very effiecient, but it does bleed energy as light, and I doubt the powercells are perfect. Maybe leave it on for a few weeks.

[Sanis Prent]

Doesn't anybody remember the Energizer commercial? Lightsabers use batteries! As long as you use Energizer, you're fine. Just don't use SuperVolt, like that crazy Darth Vader did!

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol

[Rognan Dar]

:lol

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Loki Ahmrah
Well I'm very sorry but what I said isn't my take on lightsabers, it's what I've read in the past. Plus how many people do you see throwing lightning from their fingertips? I will give you a ficticious universe stuff because that's exactly what it is; I am not prepared to take a degree in physics in order to rearrange the entire Star Wars mythology to make my roleplaying here more appealing to those who study the sciences.


My point is that arguing about HOW all this stuff works in a scientific sense is pointless. You'll either disprove it's existence, or talk/think yourself in circles. It's a waste of time.

[Jedieb]

My point is that arguing about HOW all this stuff works in a scientific sense is pointless. You'll either disprove it's existence, or talk/think yourself in circles. It's a waste of time.

But that sounds like reality.... What business does reality have in a discussion about lightsabers? ;)

I agree 110% with Bogey's crazy talk. But wait, isn't 110% an impossibility..... trying to figure that .... out.. but.... I keep.... thinking...... in .... circles.....

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Doesn't anybody remember the Energizer commercial? Lightsabers use batteries! As long as you use Energizer, you're fine. Just don't use SuperVolt, like that crazy Darth Vader did!
...and this, ironically enough, is the only damn thing that makes any sense in this thread.

[Wei Wu Wei]

So...my question has been transformed into:

Does a lightsaber lose any energy at all?

It seems like it doesn't. (shrugs) Very interesting debate though. and I sort of agree with Morgan. Although what Fig was saying about enthalpies and entropy is very interesting.

[Marcus Telcontar]

dont care what lucas says - i agree with figrin.

want a simple test? does the blade give off light? if it does, it's chewing energy. if it wasn't it would be invisible, soundless and without heat. we know the blade gives off a hum and it gives off light. lucas and tf/n fanboys thence lose.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Not that it means a great deal to me but I'm going to stand by the explanation I posted before from TheForce.Net. It's Star Wars and that's good enough for me. There's no winning or losing in it whatsoever, a matter of opinion.

[Morgan Evanar]

I prefer the element of plausibility. If they had just said that the energy loss was neglible, I'd be cool with it.

But loosing no energy? UNPOSSIBLE!

[Sanis Prent]

yaaaawwwn.........





















<img src=http://www.bama.ua.edu/~hicks020/pics/ratsass.jpg>

<font size=40>SPLAT!</font>

[Wei Wu Wei]

Sanis once again eloquently communicates his unique views on the issue at hand.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol