Gothic

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'm wondering, what exactly do you class as gothic - music and clothes wise?

[ReaperFett]

Furs and Axes, while charging into battle against the Romans. The rest of ya are just in the wrong clothes ;)

[Warlock]

:rolleyes oh ha ha. very helpful :p

[Sean Piett]

Baggy black pants, dark clothes in general, odd hairdoos (usually including a lot of gel), generally like groups like Mudvayne and Slipknot, hate being called 'Goths'.

Of course, you can listen to whatever music you please and not be a goth, but this is the basic template here in my small town.

[imported_Grev Drasen]

To me, goths have always been a branch off punks in the late 70s who didn't like the state of punk music and when off to do their own thing. I don't like to get into stereotypes... but from what I've seen they're fascinated with the darker side of stuff. Like music and literature.

A majority wear dark clothing, from what I've seen. I'm not sure about all the make-up and fingernail paint.

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

Online Dictionary Say:
Goth·ic
adj.

Of or relating to the Goths or their language.
Germanic; Teutonic.
Of or relating to the Middle Ages; medieval.

Of or relating to an architectural style prevalent in western Europe from the 12th through the 15th century and characterized by pointed arches, rib vaulting, and a developing emphasis on verticality and the impression of height.
Of or relating to an architectural style derived from medieval Gothic.
Of or relating to painting, sculpture, or other art forms prevalent in northern Europe from the 12th through the 15th century.
often gothic Of or relating to a style of fiction that emphasizes the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate.
gothic Barbarous; crude.

n.
The extinct East Germanic language of the Goths.
Gothic art or architecture.
often gothic Printing.
See black letter.
See sans serif.
A novel in a style emphasizing the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate.

Word History: The combination Gothic romance represents a union of two of the major influences in the development of European culture, the Roman Empire and the Germanic tribes that invaded it. The Roman origins of romance must be sought in the etymology of that word, but we can see clearly that Gothic is related to the name Goth used for one of those invading Germanic tribes. The word Gothic, first recorded in 1611 in a reference to the language of the Goths, was extended in sense in several ways, meaning “Germanic,” “medieval, not classical,” “barbarous,” and also an architectural style that was not Greek or Roman. Horace Walpole applied the word Gothic to his novel The Castle of Otranto, a Gothic Story (1765) in the sense “medieval, not classical.” From this novel filled with scenes of terror and gloom in a medieval setting descended a literary genre still popular today; from its subtitle descended the name for it.

Yes, I agree with Fett, that is what a Gothic Person is. A German Warrior. Now, I will dress up as one, and try to attend a so called "Gothic" get together. If they try to chase me off, I will attack with my Axe. Grrrr!

[ReaperFett]

That's be hilarious. Imagine the headlines "Goths scared off by real Goth" :)

[Kelt Simoson]

Gothic images are often stereotypical and im speaking as one.

Gothic Images are influenced by music, dress or peer pressure never by religion or satanic stuff, never beleive that. First time i went out looking gothic my dad strait away called me a Satan worshiper which is like totally not true, Gothic dress and looks have nothing to do with black magic or evil.

To be a Goth you don't really need to wear make up or nail polish or have gelled hair, although many do, i just guess you need to like the style of music we like or the cloths we wear. Being gothic ain't a title its just i dunno a style i guess like Grunger or Skaters wear so do goths, these days much of styles and groups are based around music.

[Garrett Blade]

I hate it when people say I'm a goth when they realise I listen to/see me listening to Marilyn Manson. He's ROCK for (Gods) sake! Just because I thought Manson's Tainted Love version wa sbetter than Softcell's, Mr Rothnie thinks I'm a full-blown GOTH! As Jacko said in the interview - ignorance!

Though I guess you could call me a goth due to what I wear when I go to thew Krazyhouse! I'm planning on getting a cross (or an ahnk) and snapping half of the bottom point off it and wearing it as a pendant (I saw it in a vampire picture and think it looks cool.)

But really, I'm my own culture! I'm Goth meets Rock meets Punk. If I were a droid you could call me...


Gonk!

[Dasquian Belargic]

i just guess you need to like the style of music we like or the cloths we wear.

That's what I don't get - what type of music is "gothic" music, in your opinion.

[ReaperFett]

As Jacko said in the interview - ignorance!

He also said two plastic surgery ops, both on the nose ;)

[Kirreessaa Midarruu]

you know me, im just me. i wear too much black, but i listen to anything from Shirley Bassey to Rammstein to Brahms to The Clash to Gerard McMann to Madonna to basically anything recorded in the past 1000 years.

and people call me a goth.

[Sean Piett]

Manson is okay, but his cover off "The KKK Took MY Baby Away" was wretched.

Also, did anyone ever see the Andy Dick show with Manson? Where he's a foster child?

"Dog spelld backwards is God."

Har har har.

[Straffe Stormrider]

I dont want to be like the rest of society and class everyone but today ill give my opinion

Goths:

The useually wear pitch black clothing had have realitivly pale skin (useually cause of makeup). They useualy have bizzare peirceings and wear cloaks alot. Alot of them (not all) listen to death/heavy metal. I have also noticed that they seem interested in swords and daggers. they are useually quiet and keep to themselves but when they are in a group they are very outgoing. They tend to keep to themselves.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I've noticed that what (and who) most of us would classify as 'Goth' (Although, being the Medievalist that I am, I do agree with Fett's definition) is never what those people classify themselves as. Meaning music, or clothing, or fetishes alone do not indicate 'goth-ness' but somehow a combination of those do.

I guess my point is that I find goths incredibly funny because they try so hard not to fit in with a supposed social standard, yet at the same time, they pigeonhole themselves into categories... You know, such ironies as buying a pin with 'Anarchy' on it, or buying a t-shirt or jeans that are already ripped. Even their music is just terrible to be terrible. I personally don't find Manson or other shock/goth rockers frightening because they are just out to get that response. You know that, when they're at home, they sit and watch disney movies and cry.

People are people, regardless of what they think they are.

[ReaperFett]

You mean they want to be individuals so dress like all the other individuals? ;)

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

I wear black clothing, but I have insulting messages on them. I am a slacker, and damn proud of it!

But then, I am a responsible slacker...

And you can't call yourself even part gothic until you at least have 10 piercings... Yep, need them in your eyes you do!

[Loki Ahmrah]

Taja-person is well-versed in the "gothic" ways. She knows and loves most of the real gothic bands, the likelyhood being that few of us will know of them ourselves.

Personally speaking, I'm very skeptical about the "Goth" definition as was stated in a newspaper recently, the clothing style - at least - is climbing in popularity along with the whole alternative music culture. It seems "Goth" is a label being thrown all about the place nilly-willy.

People who wear black and frown all day long are entitled to call themselves whatever they want although I don't think they're "goths". It's all a state of mind, that is the principle aspect of being "gothic" as far as I am concerned. For example, I don't think Peter is any shape or form "gothic" by my definition. Then again, I hate stereotypes and think they're a waste of time and are only there to make people feel better or worse about themselves and each other. A lazy way of defining individuals. So I try to steer clear of such shallow terminilogy.

[Dae Jinn]

Gothic to me has always been a less hard-core version of a Goth. We always have called "Goths' who like heavy metal "SKids" :lol Goth is a label for the music you like, the style you wear and your "attitude", just like "punk" "skaters", "preppies" are :x I used to dress in all the black clothes, dark make-up, listen to NIN and Mason all the time, till I discovered a little band called The Sex Pistols and started dressing punk. Now, I dress for work or comfort. :\ I tend to wear black and silver make-up, a la MSP :lol I guess it's all your attitude about it.

[imported_Grev Drasen]

I don't agree that being goth affects your personality or attitude. And even the style of clothes you wear. Limiting yourself to only one style of clothing would make you a conformist, and conformity is what goths are trying to avoid to begin with, isn't it?

I think it's just a term to define your taste in art; like the type of music and/or literature you like. But reducing yourself to listening to only one genre of music is stupid, in my opinion. So I don't know what exactly a goth is. Maybe it has its own set of sub-cultures like punk now.

[Dae Jinn]

Funny, all the "goths" I have known in my life, all look the same :rolleyes It's a trend, then :lol

[Loki Ahmrah]

Being "gothic" or a "goth" is very much all to do with attitude and personality. It filters through and manifests itself through clothing and music, etc.

[Sylos'delka]

Clothes do not make the man, attitude does...

Look at the guy in Dead Man On Campus

Happiest Guy during highschool, but in college, he dressed , and sang, as a Goth.

[Dirjj Mordrai]

Doc Martins; denim or leather jackets with graphitti all over them; fishnet apparel such as shirts, stockings, etc; head shaven in various, chaotic styles and in a rainbow of colors; piercings up the whamo; blanched faces with black or purple make-up; ragged shirts and pants; men wearing mini-skirts and women refusing to wear bras.

Mind set on teenage nihilism and rebellion against conformity with a morbid curiousity for suicide and death. Innate hatred of organized religions. Very tender and caring of everyone that is part of their clique. They are can be anti-social or not. Yet they truly do love and care for one another.

[Leeloo Mina]

I think just about every person you ask will answer diffrently when asked what "goth" is. I'm not "goth" but I think it's mostly a darker state of mind than how you dress or what music you listen to.. there's a website I was looking at a few days ago that has pages and pages of stuff on what "goth/gothic" is.. I'll see if I can dig up the link.

Edit: Found it and another one.

http://www.sfgoth.com/primer/

http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm

I haven't looked at every single page on those two sites, so I hope there's nothing terribly bad.

[Miryan no Trunks]

Just a quick 2c of mine own.

Goths, those who go by the clique of Goths, seem to mostly do so, because they want to avoid being labeled, or beign stereotyped. To do so they:

A: Dress in the exact same fashion as everyone else who feels that way

B: Act all angsty, philosophical, and evil "I eat the souls of chicken nuggets.. They fill my stomach more than the empty corporate swill each physical manifestation of the poultry's spirit is imprisoned within could ever do.." (no matter What their true personality's like)

C: Listen to the same music as other goths, but only neccesarily when they're trying to maintain the image of being theirselves.

In conclusion, Yes, Goths are hypocrites. I'd say that they conform to anti-conformity, if being Goth had anything to DO with anti-conformity.

They conform to an mass-image which they pretend manifests the ideology of being an individual, because all the hundreds of thousands of other people who do the same, believe it as well.

....

I think I need to sleep or something >_< Damn work..

[Kelt Simoson]

Originally posted by Dasquian Belargic
That's what I don't get - what type of music is "gothic" music, in your opinion.

Black Metal, there is a type of music called Gothic, Heavy Heavy rock music like that, there is more bands and stuff but i really cant be botherd to go through them..lol...i'll tell you about them jenny when i come up and i'll bring some CDs up to...

[Xenodoros Stormrider]

Death Metal (or whatever that's called) for the music. Clothes black and some use hair wax for their hair.

That's all I can say.

[Sanis Prent]

I honestly can't give a damn. People who make an effort to conform, even in the sake of refusing to conform to fit a label, are sad and shallow people. I'm far too eclectic to get pidgeonholed into these things. Even when I was way younger, I could move just as easily from the Jock table in the lunchroom, to the Nerd table, to the Freak table, to the Thug table, etc etc etc. I never understand people who shut themselves off like that, and built some kind of subculture around it.

So what do I think when I see somebody dressed in black? Well, depends on if they can pull it off and not look trashy and gaudy. But...that applies to anything else that anybody can wear. Its much ado about nothing, that hopefully most people get over when they get out of high school or at the latest, college.

You essentially can cause the genesis of a "clique" by having a few people, blessed with the cult of personality, surrounding themselves with vast amounts of people who have no such security in their self-identity, and they'll re-shape themselves to fit the jigsaws. Lots of people are crazy about that, and that's fine I guess...just not for me.

So "goths", whether you worship nature, Jesus, Satan, or just simply hate your dad and do whatever for acceptance by peers and for the adrenaline rush of rebellion, that's fine. Go on and be gothy, so long as you aren't gaudy. Go on and listen to your music, so long as it doesn't sound like you're strangling a cat. I can't be bothered by it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Emo people make me want to cook fattening meals and force feed them.

[/off topic comment]

And goths shop at Hot Topic. DUH! :)

I am certainly Gothic. I even dyed my hair black once. ;)

[Dirjj Mordrai]

:lol @ LD!

[Leeloo Mina]

:lol@LD Makes me gothic too then. :p *points at avatar* Lookie! I've got on black lipstick! (okay, so it's red, but the black and white made it look black ^_^; )

Hot topic has some neat clothes sometimes.. besides, I'm not a size zero and I can't find plaid pants and FEMALE Star Wars shirts at Old Navy :)

[imported_Taja Loraan]

Originally posted by Loki Ahmrah
Being "gothic" or a "goth" is very much all to do with attitude and personality. It filters through and manifests itself through clothing and music, etc.

THANK YOU. :: huggles Loki :: I think you pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. :)

What really really irks me is when random strangers automatically assume I'm a goth because of the way I dress. For example, this boy on the bus once asked me: "Do you know you're a goth?"
"Uh... no?"
"Do you like Slipknot?"
"..."

|I

Slipknot, Mudvayne, Marilyn Manson and the like are NOT "gothic" bands. They are metal. When I think gothic-y music, it's usually along the lines of darkwave, dark ambiant, black and gothic metal, etc., but there is no set definition. Clothes-wise... a lot of lace, frills, renaissance-inspired typie stuff. At least, that is the stereotype. But I don't do any of that, so :mneh.


Listen to the same music as other goths, but only neccesarily when they're trying to maintain the image of being theirselves.
I disagree. I've been called a goth, and my taste in music differs almost entirely from other goths I have met.


Act all angsty, philosophical, and evil "I eat the souls of chicken nuggets.. They fill my stomach more than the empty corporate swill each physical manifestation of the poultry's spirit is imprisoned within could ever do.." (no matter What their true personality's like)
That is another misconception I'm constantly facing and am frankly sick of. A heckuva lot of people I talk to for the first time go "you seem too happy to be a real goth" or whatnot, and deem me to be a poser because I dress that way but don't "act" it. First off, I never claimed to be a bitter antisocial bitch. They assumed that. Second, I think and feel the way I do, and it's not my fault if that coincides with others' thoughts and feelings. A lot of the goths I have met are some of the friendliest and nicest people I know.


Dress in the exact same fashion as everyone else who feels that way
I for one have never actively tried to look gothic or whatever. I dress however the way I feel like. Just that that was the label given to me by others, and I don't mind it.

Sorry to make this a personal rant, but I couldn't help it. ^_^; Will add more ramblings later. :rollin

[Sanis Prent]

Whenever I decide to buy clothes, I do so in this order of importance:

1. Price
2. Comfortability
3. Non-conflicting colors
4. Won't be a detriment on a job interview

The rest, I can't be bothered with. Maybe when I have an actual income, I'll get a repertoire of expensive suits, but I'll stick with the generics for now.

[Vega Van-Derveld]

"I eat the souls of chicken nuggets.. They fill my stomach more than the empty corporate swill each physical manifestation of the poultry's spirit is imprisoned within could ever do.."

LMAO :D

and don't get me wrong, I don't buy into stereotypes with things like this, I'm just curious what people think. A lot of people in my area have the mentality Taja mentioned (Slipknot/black clothes = goth), so I'm regularly called a Goth, but then I get called a Hippy too which is really polar so doesn't make sense, but hey.. whatever.

[imported_Taja Loraan]

Originally posted by Vega Van Derveld
so I'm regularly called a Goth, but then I get called a Hippy too which is really polar so doesn't make sense, but hey.. whatever.

Heheh, yeah. I get called a tree-hugger and stuffs, but then am expected to kill and eat small animals. o_O Uhm... right. :|

[Leeloo Mina]

I like "depressing" music and some dark comics and I'm sometimes called a goth by my friends or just someone walking by I guess since my hair is black and I usually wear dark make up though I dress nothing like that and I don't like most "gothic" music.. and since when were having a thing for plaid pants gothic o_O Isn't that more punk? :lol

[Sanis Prent]

ARG ARG ARG WHO CARES!

/rant

[Leeloo Mina]

:lol

I dunno, apprently Vega cares :p

[Sanis Prent]

I dunno. Its just so much ado about nothing, and all it takes is a little bit of growing up to realize how absolutely pointless all this labelling crap really is.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I find modern culture an interesting topic of conversation personally.

[Sanis Prent]

You mean "the herd effect". Culture is one thing. Selling yourself out to fit a prescribed paradigm is another entirely. This isn't just about fashion, its about behavior, about music, about a billion different things. To think that so many people willingly align themselves to match others on every one of these sticking points is really sad.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I don't think I can really speak about other people and their motives behind their behaviour and attitude without what I say being nothing more than assumption. On that note, I do what I do because I want to do it and I certainly don't approve of being labelled and besides, like yourself, my tastes are far too varied in order to pinpoint a stereotype.

I mean you can call it a "herd effect" but can't be nothing more than an observation on your part. Opinion. You can't possibly know why people act and behave in particular ways. Psychology can't even do that, except make assumptions and theories.

[Xazor Elessar]

Hmm.....goths. Well, there are a lot of them in my school. They're pretty cool people but very misunderstood. So I don't judge them or anything.

I'm a skater anyway (but a preppy skater) so I dress and act the way I want (like most other skaters) but I am very concerned about school and I am not rude/crude/loud/obnoxious. I dunno, it's just what others think you are they group you there -- I happen to be grouped as a skater and I have no problem with that because really that's what I am. :)

As for the herding effect, yeah, I agree to some extent -- but I think that the basis of culture is groups anyway. :)

[Sanis Prent]

On a side note - I got cut off in HS by skaters...all the time. I can appreciate people and their love of sport, but on their own time, or at their own place, and in God's name, in observance with traffic laws. I mean, for a skater to just hop off the curb, into the road, and do an "ollie" or whatever the hell they do, and expect cars to heed them, is re-freakin-tarded. So, one day...I snapped. I drove nice and slow to where some skaters were tricking or whatever they do, and then gunned it, jumped the curb, and forced them to dive for cover....laughing maniacally all the way.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol had a kid that once, didn't even looked as he jumped a curb and into the street, he's lucky he went across the other lane first or I may not have seen him in time.....

[Xazor Elessar]

I have no respect for skaters who do not observe the law -- it's cool for all of us to do our own thing, but safety is first and consideration for others. :)

I don't hop off curbs and ollie in the street or trick off a rail and fall into the street (not in front of cars anyway) :lol

[Sanis Prent]

I actually had to help this poor bastard who decided it would be a good idea to skate up and hitch a ride onto the bumper of a Dr. Pepper 18 wheeler. It hit the brakes. He didn't. He got a few hundred stitches and half a dozen broken bones for his trouble. Sprung a hundred leaks and I'm on the phone with 911 and juggling listening to him wail at me. I don't know what happened to him. Never bothered to check up, after they carted him off in the ambulance. I'd like to think it was an educational experience for him.

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol mine was a small kid vs my truck, he would've been smushed had I hit him.....

[Sanis Prent]

:lol you drive a truck?

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

yeah, why?

[Sanis Prent]

Just wondering. It's not everyday that you find chicks in trucks...especially not in California.

[Motssumi Rosskaarru]

okies, I just prefer em....dunno why.....

[Leeloo Mina]

I can't drive! :)

..well, legally I can, but I'm just too lazy to go through all that trouble.. you know.. learning to drive and stuff..

[Sanis Prent]

Until the day that I get my Jaguar, I'll never drive anything else :D

[Motssumi Rosskaarru]

:lol

[imported_Taja Loraan]

I want a truck. :( They're so cool and chunky. :cry

[James Prent]

As someone who livedin California: Charley you don't know what you're talking about. Lotsa chicks in trucks. :)

[imported_Taja Loraan]

:: wonders if Charley's referring to her :: o_o;

Oh, and in response to what Grev said about there being many sub-divisions of goth...

BabyGoth
CorporateGoth
ElderGoth
GlamGoth
GlitterGoth
MopeyGoth
PerkyGoth
PunkGoth
RomantiGoth
VampyreGoth
Mansonite

See? Not all black. :)

If I had to choose from that list, I'd be a MopeyGoth, but I don't really fit in anywhere, I don't think... for lack of a better term, I'm a death rocker (because I listen to death rock and don't do the whole medieval get-up), which I guess is sort-of like a sub-division of goth.

Can you tell I've spent a lot of time studying social labels or what? :p

[Garrett Blade]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
So, one day...I snapped. I drove nice and slow to where some skaters were tricking or whatever they do, and then gunned it, jumped the curb, and forced them to dive for cover....laughing maniacally all the way.

LMAO!!!!

Right - that's it. I'm going around an orchestra whilst eating! :p :rollin

As for those sub-cultures - you missed one crucial category, of which there can only ever be one person...

ChristmasGoth!

[Loki Ahmrah]

And he has GothNosh for breakfast.

[Garrett Blade]

Yay! That's what can eat when I go around the orchestra! >D

[Sanis Prent]

Is dressing in black for midnight stabbings a goth subdivision? If so, count me in!

[Loki Ahmrah]

Charming! :eek

[Garrett Blade]

All I see...is darkness!!!"

































Oh...my hoods down!"

[Sanis Prent]

Its part of my new fitness training program..."Run or DIE!"

Should catch on like wildfire, I think. Most people are simply unmotivated for exercise. I think the threat of death should change that :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

:lol

[Garrett Blade]

LOL!

Wildfire? Ooh - an idea. Use napalm - really burn those calories away - along with those limbs! Eliminate Sloth with the holy fires of retribution!!!

[Sanis Prent]

ROFL!

<font size=-2>WARNING: Charred flesh may cause cancer.</font>

[Garrett Blade]

Mind you, burning limbs will only enforce sloth! :p

[Miryan no Trunks]

Taaaj, I was talking about the people who Try to be goth, not those who admit themselves that they're "mistaken for goth" /=)

If you can be mistaken for goth, it's simply because you like wearing that kind of stuff ^_^ I mean, I've been mistaken for it many times myself

[imported_Gerbo Lang]

how about that allot of you people discribe as goth reminds me allot of most of my friends yet none of them claim to be goth, one out of the bunch does claim to be Punk.

[Zakatiel Rhinehart]

Its part of my new fitness training program..."Run or DIE!"

actually, I seen a flash cartoon like that, 10 easy steps to lose wieght, the funniest one was something about going to a women's rights rally, getting up on the mike and saying. "Why ain't any of you b****es at home making me pie?"

[Sorreessa Tarrineezi]

:lol