Good Lord-Space Shuttle Columbia is gone.

[Darth Viscera]

I'm sorry, this is horrible. The Columbia was returning from a 16-day science mission. It was carrying the first Israeli in space, as well as 6 other crew members, 2 of them females. It looks as though Columbia disintegrated while at 200,000 ft. altitude and flying at 12,000mph. At this point, it looks as though there was no way the crew could have escaped-there are no escape pods onboard these Shuttles. It seems as though Columbia disintegrated over northern Texas while it was traveling on an eastern course towards Florida. This would be the first time that Americans have been lost in space in the history of our space program. Challenger was lost nearly 20 years ago, but that was shortly after takeoff. It was scheduled to land at 9:16am EST, there have been no communications since 9:00am EST.

Good Lord. I don't know what to say. It's likely this was a terrorist act, as it was the first Israeli in space.

Good Lord.

[ReaperFett]

It wont be terrorist. There's no way with the increase in security that this could happen at the end.

[Darth Viscera]

It can't be a coincidence that it disintegrated while the first Israeli was onboard.

[Jinn Fizz]

I am stunned.

Saddened.

In absolute shock.

This is horrible, horrible beyond words.

[ReaperFett]

On launch day, a piece of insulating foam on the external fuel tank came off during liftoff and was believed to have struck the left wing of the shuttle.


Leroy Cain, the lead flight director in Mission Control, had assured reporters Friday that engineers had concluded that any damage to the wing was considered minor and posed no safety hazard.

That isnt anything to do with sabotage. Accidents happen no matter who is flying.

[Darth Viscera]

Never in 45 years have we lost a space crew during landing. Consider the odds of an accident happening while the first Israeli in space is returning home. The odds that it's an accident are astronomical, especially considering how Al Qaeda picks its targets. The Columbia is a culturally significant target.

[ReaperFett]

So how do a terrorist organisation make a shuttle disintergrate when it enters the atmosphere? WHy not at the start, or in space?

[Darth Viscera]

A timer on the bomb. If it exploded in space, we wouldn't have been able to watch it live on CNN and thus be traumatized again.

[Darth Viscera]

They have no decency, of course, these madmen. The shuttle was not an american icon, it was something that the world could be proud of.

[Jinn Fizz]

Accident. Accident. Accident. I can't see any other explanation for it.

The Columbia was the oldest shuttle in the fleet. Plus, what ReaperFett posted about the wing of the shuttle is also evidence that something could have gone wrong structurally.

I don't think Al Qaeda or anyone else has the technology to make a space shuttle break up on reentry. This is just a horrible, horrible, horrible coincidence that it happened with the first Israeli astronaut on board.

God, but I'm just so sick to my stomach right now.

[Princess Sunflower]

OMG : ( This is absolutely horrible. Another sad day in history. It's almost 17 years to the day of the Challenger tragedy. Challenger was lost on January 28, 1986.

I feel we shouldn't do any finger pointing for any underlying reasons this could have occurred right now. Traveling into Space is a very delicate risky procedure. There are too many variables as to what could have gone wrong. Footage was even shown of debris falling off the spacescraft on takeoff. I hadn't heard anything about that before.

My prayers go out to the familes of the Astronauts and their families and keep hope that there is a chance all is not lost.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Jinn Fizz]

I agree, Princess Sunflower. Now is not the time to point fingers and make accusations.

[CMJ]

I'm originally from the DFW region where it went down. I'm trying to get in contact with friends to see if they saw....

This is unreal to me.

[imported_QuiGonJ]

At Mach 6, at 200,000 feet.. a terrorist would have had to be on board. They say there was wing damage on take-off, and that sounds like the most likely explanation.

[CMJ]

IM conversation with my exgirlfriend back home...

Courtland says:
Holy crap did you see anything?
Laura says:
Space shuttle bad
Laura says:
Yea, we were watching it
Courtland says:
Seriously, you wre?
Laura says:
Yea
Laura says:
Saw the vapor streams
Courtland says:
OMG, I started watching about an hour ago I guess.
Laura says:
We've been watching since 8:15
Courtland says:
6:15 here..ok
Courtland says:
Did u realize right away that it was bad?
Laura says:
No
Laura says:
Not at all
Courtland says:
Yeah, about half the eye wirtnesses did and the other half didn't
Laura says:
Saw it and i was like oh that's nice
Courtland says:
Had you never seen it come in before?
Laura says:
And then my mom called saying it had exploded
Laura says:
Yea
Courtland says:
Yeah, I knew what you meant
Laura says:
Couple of years ago
Courtland says:
Yeah, my folks always try and see it if they can
Laura says:
Yea
Courtland says:
So I guess it's on everyhwere there...I mean it happened right over yall
Laura says:
Yep
Courtland says:
One eyewitness on the national vbroadcast was FROM Frisco
Courtland says:
Other were Plano, Dallas, Fort Worth...was waiting for Denton
Courtland says:
Guess all the college students were asleep
Laura says:
We're hearing ones from Palestine where it went down
Courtland says:
Okay, it actually went down in Palestine..that hadn't been confirmed on the National level as of a few minutes ago
Laura says:
Its in that area in east texas
Courtland says:
Okay...
Courtland says:
Maybe that's what is being reported now, but 10-15 minutes ago they still weren't certain
Laura says:
Well, people in louisiana saw it too, b/c it broke into so many pieces, it's allover.

[TheHolo.Net]

An image that depicts the scope of this re-entry break-up tragedy:

<img src=http://thesithempire.clanpages.com/columbia.gif>

Note: This image is after the accident and shows residual heat, not the actual event.

[Taylor Millard]

A friend of mine says there was debris falling down around his house.

[TheHolo.Net]

Fox News just reported that radar indicates that some debris may have gone all the way to the Gulf of Mexico, which this radar image seems to verify:

<img src=http://thesithempire.clanpages.com/columbia2.gif>

Note: Again this is a residual (afterwards) image not a live one from when the event occured.

[Darth Viscera]

What do you suppose that orange-red streak is? It looks to me like a contrail of some sort that points towards Florida. Maybe that control represents where Columbia blew up, and the debris flew in along the wind towards that circular mass (debris landing point) in Shreveport. Maybe, I'm not sure exactly what I'm seeing.

This tragedy could delay the completion of Space Station Freedom by 2 years. When Challenger blew up in 1987, it was 2 years before another shuttle went up. How will we get our 2 astronauts and 1 cosmonaut home from Freedom? Soyuz capsules? I don't think they can hold 3 people.

[Darth Viscera]

My brother lives near Galveston in Kirbyville, Texas. Is that a second debris field in Louisiana, or is the debris still up there in the mesosphere, being carried along? The explosions could have created thermals on which the debris could drift, almost like an obscenely overweight feather I should imagine, considering the materials that the Shuttle is made up of.

[TheHolo.Net]

It appears to be a second debris field over the gulf, probably still airborne and very hot.

It looks to be getting smaller now:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/latest/DS.p19r0/si.klch.shtml

[ReaperFett]

I heard theyve had debris reports from as far as Oaklahoma (Or Oakland, I forget). Is that far?

[TheHolo.Net]

Oklahoma is the neighbor state north and north east of the state of Texas. If I recall correctly Texas is as almost as large or larger than all of the island of Great Britian.

[ReaperFett]

Something like that.

[TheHolo.Net]

Here is a small B/W map that will give some sense of geography. I have heard reports of debris in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and possibly New Mexico as well, besides the report of radar showing debris in the Gulf of Mexico..

<img src=http://thesithempire.clanpages.com/texasbw.gif>

[Jedi Master Carr]

Its a very awful accident similar to Challenger except this time it was coming back. Our their still astrounauts in the space station? I am sure we will send up a shuttle to get them, we can't leave them there for 2 years.

[Princess Sunflower]

Yes..there are still astronauts at the Space Station. It was stated that they have a Souyez space craft up there they could use for an emergency flight home.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I guess I missed that, at least they can get back if they have to.

[Diego Van Derveld]

The green circular patch is NOT part of the shuttle. That is ground clutter from the radar station.

[CMJ]

Maybe it's not the right time, but we have to return to space. They would've wanted it that way.

"I sometimes catch myself looking up at the moon, remembering the changes of fortune in our long voyage, thinking of the thousands of people who worked to bring the three of us home. I look up at the moon, and wonder: When will we be going back? And who will that be?" Jim Lovell in his book(also quoted in the film)

[Figrin D'an]

Very much agreed, CMJ.

I highly doubt that there will be a 2+ year delay, as there was following the Challenger disaster. The International Space Station all but demands that shuttle flights continue.

A horrible accident, but one that everyone knew could, and likely would, happen eventually. Such are the risks of space flight. My thoughts are with the families of the shuttle crew.

[CMJ]

We take Space flight with too much of a nonchallant attitidue these days. It's literally the greatest achievment in human history(for my money anyways) and we don't, as a nation, care for the most part anymore.

Maybe that's just my personal feelings enter in too much. I love the exploration of space, and it's bothered me for some time that the average Joe could care less. If you read my IM convo with my friend(err Ex gf) back home you'd see how surprised I was that she'd seen a shuttle land before. The whole time I knew her whenever I'd wanna wake up at 3AM and go see a re-entry she'd tell me to get a life. :p

That's the attitide that I believe permeates the country unfortunately.

Uhhh Rant time is over. :\

[Diego Van Derveld]

I'm down around Daytona Beach frequently when shuttles are launched. Its the closest I've been to them...but I love each time I get to see it. Even though I'm 90 miles north, I can still see the shuttle ascending to space in a perfectly clear manner. I have photos somewhere, but not with me right now. Its really fascinating to see.

[Princess Sunflower]

I agree with you CMJ. It seems the average Mr John Q Public is totally clueless about the Space Program. I grew up with a huge interest in Space Exploration. I guess that's why I am such a huge Star Trek fan. And yes...the entire process is taken for granted. I think that could be because when things go normal it all looks so easy.

A year ago I was so thrilled to have chance to see the traveling exhibit of the Liberty Bell 7. This was one of our earliest spacecraft. It was piloted by Gus Grissom. The door of the spacecraft prematurely blew off on reentry and he almost drowned. The spacecraft sunk to the bottom of the ocean and lay there until it was found a few years. ago. It was amazing to see how the cockpit consisted of simple toggle switches. The point of the story is this too was a big event for the Space Program but when I mentioned to people I was going to see it they had no clue about what I was taking about :(

[Daiquiri Van-Derveld]

I remember watching as Neil Armstrong walked on on the moon.

I remember too, my Mother coming to me in my bedroom and explaining to me that something had gone terribly wrong with the Apollo 13 space flight. I was rather noncommittal about it until she suggested that later that night I should go outside and look up at the moon and try putting myself in their place or at least in their families place.

I did as she asked and not long afterward I returned to the safety and comfort of my room and got down on my knees, praying for their safe return....somehow, someway.

Unless it hasnt been televised (or carried on a station that I received), Ive not missed a single takeoff since and I feel a bit now as I did then, only more so since I now know what having a family of my own means.

My prayers and thoughts go out to the families who lost their loved ones today in this still puzzling tragedy.

[JonathanLB]

I agree with CMJ.

Space flight is one of the most important endeavors we have going. If the world does not progress in the field of space, no real progress is being made. The natural next frontier is space -- there is no "out west" or "new world" or anything like that anymore. We know this world fairly well and it is only natural that our scientists and engineers should be focusing at least somewhat on the exploration of other planets.

Even though I want to be a movie director and really hate science and math classes (not my thing), I still contend that science and engineering related fields are the most important to human advancement. The medical cures, new inventions for personal use (better computers, etc.), new machines for production, etc. Every profession has its purpose, especially art, I think, which defines culture, but it is all basically in service of human progress, i.e. scientific and technical achievements, in my opinion. If you sell real estate, work in retail of any kind, etc. then you exist to maintain and support the infrastructure of the country, which in turn allows for scientists and engineers to make critical progress for humanity in such fields as medicine, technology, and various other biological or technological pursuits. I just think, needless to say, if we had no NASA, we had no scientists, no engineers, then we would never make any progress whatsoever. No possibility of electric cars, no better computers, no new inventions, no chance, ever, of curing cancer or Alzheimer's, no chance of exploring other planets, and no use at all of humanity even existing because there would be no progress and no learning. A person who isn't learning anything in their lives and is not in pursuit of greater knowledge is a person who may as well be dead. Same with a culture or country.

This tragedy today is very sad. I just hope it does not deter future missions from people at NASA or other would-be astronauts.

[Princess Sunflower]

VERY Well said Jonathan...I agree with you 100%.

I belieive we have only scratched the surface of what exists out there and without exploration we stand no chance of becoming a more advanced planet.

[Diego Van Derveld]

And I believe space is the key to helping everybody on Earth put aside our intolerances and prejudices of one another. Because whenever we find aliens, we can be intolerant and prejudice of them, instead of each other! :)

[CMJ]

Great post Jonathan...

I just found President Reagan's speech about Challenger. I was fairly young, 7 years old if I remember right, when she went down. This speech fits pretty well today as well.

http://reagan.webteamone.com/speeches/challenger.cfm

[JonathanLB]

"And I believe space is the key to helping everybody on Earth put aside our intolerances and prejudices of one another. Because whenever we find aliens, we can be intolerant and prejudice of them, instead of each other!"

LOL, amen, let's find dem aliens and kick some booty! ;)

[JediBoricua]

I was 2 when challenger exploded and I still remember watching the takeoff live and shouting to my grandmother that it had exploded. Today I feel the same way. Being a Star Wars fan and sci-fin fan in general, space explorations seems like a natural to me and events like this affect me a lot.

I just wish peace for the crew and their families and I hope this will serve as a way to have better and safer trips in the future.

[Darth Viscera]

Well written, JonathanLB. My thoughts reflect yours 100%

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great Post, Jon, I agree with you there. Right now I think people don't care because they don't see them doing anything but walking in space, sure I agree it is unbelievable to be able to do even that. My guess is excitment could build if we ever decide to go to Mars which I think will happen within the next 20 years.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:cry


The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honoured us by the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for the journey and waved goodbye and 'slipped the surly bonds of earth' to 'touch the face of God.'

Very touching... that is a very very very good speech.

[JMK]

I woke up yesterday morning to almost identical images from the Challenger disaster, except it was the Columbia. How very sad that those people had to lose their lives, let alone 15 minutes from being home. I just pray that there wasn't any suffering. :(

[Admiral Lebron]

There most likely was as they were burned alive. :( Originally, the mission to mars was scheduled for 2019... Although now, it'll probably be moved back. :(

[ReaperFett]

There wouldnt have been due to how much heat would have been required, IMO.

[JMK]

I would hope that the heat was so intense that it would just incinerate everything in the blink of an eye.

[Admiral Lebron]

Well, traveling at mach 18... yeah. It wouldn't have taken long.

[Hadrian Invicta]

At Mach 18 they would have been killed instantly. They would have been rendered unconcious at the least, there would have been no suffering 'cept for the moment of realization.

[JonathanLB]

Well personally I hope to just disappear in my sleep at age 900 like Yoda. :)

Did you guys hear about that leg they found? Eww, some young boy discovered a leg with a bunch of other debris. That's... pretty disgusting.

[Admiral Lebron]

And didn't hear about a leg...but I have heard about someone finding a helmet.

[Darth Viscera]

They also found a human skull and a Columbia mission patch. I should add an "I think" to the skull part-I just heard that once in the last 2 days on FNL.

I doubt they felt any real pain, perhaps the last thing that went through their minds was the sudden realization that the cabin had depressurized, and mesospheric friction heat from the shuttle's heat shield was coming in. At Mach 18.3, it probably only took them a few milliseconds to pass out, likely just enough time to know that the heat sensor failure on the port side was something catastrophic :(

They were talking to NASA when it happened, they were studying the readouts on the port landing gear and wondering why the tires had just popped.

What an awful, awful tragedy for the state of Israel in particular. Their first astronaut, a national hero, went into space........and never returned. Their nation will be traumatized by this for quite some time, and it'll stay with them through the ages. What a horrible thing to be weighed down by.

Our poor President looked like hell when he had to address the nation yesterday. I can understand the weariness he faces, having to bear the brunt of the disasters that have faced the nation. He looked like Robert E. Lee in April of 1865....old beyond his years due to weariness, and thin, not so much physically as just a sense that he looks so depleted, so many new wrinkles on his face.

What a horrible, dubious distinction...the first American crew lost while in space. What a bleak future this is. :(

[Jedieb]

I was in High School when Challenger went down. We saw that video over and over. It was so sad. The images just got burned into your mind. At least I was older. There were countless kids who saw it happen live in their classrooms. It's a sad commentary on today's state of affairs that terroism even entered people's minds in the first early moments of the disaster. It crossed my mind as well especially when you consider the presense of the first Israeli astronaut. But it was soon evident that it was highly unlikely given the circumstances.

Time is going to be running an ariticle next week that's highly critical of NASA and the shuttle program. I've always supported the exploration of space and the people who work at NASA. But the article raises some valid questions about the directions the program and NASA are taking. Is a 3 decade old plan still the way to go? What kind of approach could we take with today's technology and systems? I want the program to continue. But we may be seeing the final days of the shuttle program. I only hope our exploration of space continues. My thoughts are with those who lost loved ones and friends on Saturday. MTFBWY.

[CMJ]

The fact that the government has been starving NASA of funds for years has decreased the odds of us changing course with our Space program. Ideally we'd have a "newer and better" version of the shuttle by now. People who complain about the shuttle being outdated are the same ones who wouldn't fund NASA.

"You know what makes this bird go up? FUNDING makes this bird go up!"
"He's right! No bucks, no Buck Rogers!" (From The Right Stuff)


It makes me ill. I know going and doing things in Space take BIG dollars(money which we don't really have) but it still is worth it IMHO. I'm no big fan of JFK(not a huge detractor either, he's in the middle somewhere I'd say) BUT he galvanized the Nation when he promised we'd make it to the moon before the 60's were up.

Granted it was a different time, but SOMEONE(the President or something) needs to make Mars or something similar, such an idea. Something that can capture the spirit on the America people...and the world.

"From now on, we live in a world where man has walked on the moon. And it's not a miracle, we just decided to go." (Apollo 13)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree CMJ, I think they should do Mars is next heck we could probably even colonize it somewhat I read articles that said they could plant things and maybe even make it inhabitable, those could be pipe dreams but there could be things on Mars which we could really use, maybe even cure disease, find new resources, etc. Hopefully I will see them reach Mars.

[Admiral Lebron]

2019 is the plan for the first men to mars to leave. Might be delayed now? Although I've heard a lot of cool theorys on traveling there and back.

[Jedieb]

I always thought the best choice for colonization would be the Moon. The colony would be very similiar to what an underwater one would be. I'm not talking about terra forming it, that's probably impossible. But why couldn't we travel to the Moon and develop self contained habitats? I think that kind of mission is much easier than a journey to Mars and it could even be used one day as a staging area for a manned Mars mission.

[JMK]

Imagine playing baseball on the moon? Homers would be more like 1000 feet!

I think if it's ever confirmed that there is water under the surface of Mars, that's where we're going, no doubt about it.

[Darth Viscera]

Water under the surface of Mars? ugggh...don't ask me to drink it. When I go to Mars, I'm bringing bottled water. Like with Mexico.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL well it would take years to get it right, I think if they could get it to the surface somehow maybe it would help make the planet livable, I am not sure how long that would take though. Also Jedieb I agree with you they should start with the moon, I have no idea why they haven't except maybe cost.

[Jinn Fizz]

:) :) :)

[Brielle Acaana]

:angel

I liked that, Jinn. Sweet.

[James Prent]

*got goosebumps*

I heard a bit of the presidents speech, and I'd like to read the rest, but I have to get off I can't look for it right now. Anyone have a copy somewhere easily found? Don't stress yourself on my account.

[Jinn Fizz]

I'm sure more than one of the websites for news channels probably has a transcript of the speech. Try CNN, I wouldn't be surprised if you found what you wanted there. :)

I've seen coverage of the memorial service, and it was a stark reminder that a total of 12 children lost one of their parents in Saturday's tragedy. So here's a link to a press release about the Space Shuttle Children's Trust Fund:

http://www.bankofamerica.com/newsroom/press/press.cfm?PressID=press.20030204.01.htm

[Princess Sunflower]

Here is President Bush's speech:

PRESIDENTIAL RESPONSE
In light of the tragedy, President Bush requested prayer for the families and loved ones of the shuttle Columbia's crew.

The President spoke to the nation this afternoon, offering these words of gratitude to the brave astronauts who lost their lives:

"My fellow Americans, this day has brought terrible news and great sadness to our country. At 9:00 a.m. this morning, Mission Control in Houston lost contact with our Space Shuttle Columbia. A short time later, debris was seen falling from the skies above Texas. The Columbia is lost; there are no survivors.

On board was a crew of seven: Colonel Rick Husband; Lt. Colonel Michael Anderson; Commander Laurel Clark; Captain David Brown; Commander William McCool; Dr. Kalpana Chawla; and Ilan Ramon, a Colonel in the Israeli Air Force. These men and women assumed great risk in the service to all humanity.

In an age when space flight has come to seem almost routine, it is easy to overlook the dangers of travel by rocket, and the difficulties of navigating the fierce outer atmosphere of the Earth. These astronauts knew the dangers, and they faced them willingly, knowing they had a high and noble purpose in life. Because of their courage and daring and idealism, we will miss them all the more.

All Americans today are thinking, as well, of the families of these men and women who have been given this sudden shock and grief. You're not alone. Our entire nation grieves with you. And those you loved will always have the respect and gratitude of this country.

The cause in which they died will continue. Mankind is led into the darkness beyond our world by the inspiration of discovery and the longing to understand. Our journey into space will go on.

In the skies today we saw destruction and tragedy. Yet farther than we can see there is comfort and hope. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, 'Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing' (Isaiah 40:25-26).

The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today. The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home.
May God bless the grieving families, and may God continue to bless America."
--George W. Bush