Lady_X
Dec 4th, 2002, 06:12:38 PM
Greetings, everybody!
I am a Star Wars fanatic (yes, even grrls can be "geeky" too :p) and I've had a few nagging questions about some stuff in Star Wars and the episodes.
Read on, and please excuse some typos and grammar. :)
===========================================
Unsolved mysteries:
How did Senator/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine become Dark Lord of the Sith?
Discuss as follows:
* Was Palpatine a Sith Apprentice to a Dark Lord at one time, if so, who was his Master? Or did he uncover secrets by himself to become the Sith Master? Who was the last Dark Lord before Palpatine came alone (assuming he wasn't Apprenticed and there has been a lapse of time from the last known Sith Lord up until/before the Federation Trade Wars happens).
* How did Palpatine go unnoticed by Jedi Investigators at birth for Midichlorian count? Did he have parents, guardians, or whatever that secretly hid him from the Light Side on purpose? And exactly why is Palpatine so damn powerful, anyway? Aside from being a Force-User and a Darksider...
* Speculation: discuss, in theory, whether or not (as I've heard rumored) that Palpatine is directly tied to the Skywalker bloodline (by being the parent to Anakin, by seducing Shmi then wiping her memories clear)?
* From the Senator Palpatine point-of-view (pre-Supreme Chancellor days): discuss how he was able to find time away from Queen Amidala, her handmaidens, her chief of security, and everybody else, to go into his guise as Darth Sidious?
Note: it is plainly obvious that Palpatine is Sidious - otherwise, there would be no references (in various RPG supplementals and Galaxy Guides) to Palpatine/Emperor who instigated and mechanized (very brilliantly) the Trade Federation Wars (EP1, TPM) and the Separists Wars/Clone Wars (EP2 and 3) and "preyed upon the passions and the corruptions of the Senate" as Obi-Wan had said. If he is NOT Darth Sidious/the Emperor, please discuss WHY and HOW, with fact..
Note: Palpatine manipulated the Trade Federation into a war with Naboo (EP1), thereby moving them like a chess piece to ultimatley become aligned with the other various Clans and Separatists Movement (EP2), which escalates into the Clone Wars (EP3). Palpatine (A New Hope-ROTJ) then uses the basis of refering the Rebel Alliance to "Separatists", which is why he is able to continue an iron-fisted control over the Known Galaxy (aside that the Citizenry is cowed by the Rule Through Fear doctrine)...
* From the Supreme Chancellor Palpatine point-of-view, how does he find time to get away from bureaucrats, administrators, security, his staff, common citizenry, a planet that is seriously overpopulated, and most of all, the JEDI, to take on the guise of Darth Sidious? How does he get away to the "industrialized" and "darker side" of Coruscant to meet Darth Tyranus, without the Press on his heels, wanting to take pictures for the Holonews?
Note: I have already looked into the possibility that, as Master Yoda and Master Mace Windu had said, that their ability to see into the future and to use the Force had "diminished"; meaning that somehow Darth Sidious is even able to cloud the minds of these powerful Jedi, and thus, he can move about without them noticing. But answer this: Just how is Palpatine able to do that (cloud the mind of two of the most powerful Jedi of their time)?
Speculation: it is possible that Palpatine may or may not have, off-screen and non-canonically, corruptedly evil servants and machines that aid him, alert him, and guard him while he goes about his business as the Dark Lord. Or even more likely: he has a clone of himself that he is able to control. Whether the clone could be the Supreme Chancellor or Darth Sidious (or both at the same time, with the real McCoy somewhere else) is the real question.
* Palpatine's vision into the future is limited. Yes, he can see himself as the head of the Empire. Yes, he can fortell that Anakin will one day be great. But not even he could forcast that his servant, Darth Vader, would betray him - or, for that fact, sire two children who will both be instrumental in bringing the way of the Force back to the Galaxy.
Speculation: if Palpatine had known that Anakin and Padme` would someday have children, he would never have arranged for them to be together.
From a point of view #1, I could say that Palpatine arranged the whole situation knowing how Anakin would become overbalanced by the presence of Padme` and prevent him [Anakin] from becoming focused enough to use the Force and become a Jedi proper, and [Palpatine] did not forsee them having children.
Point of view #2: he knew that Anakin and Padme would have children and he got them together, suspecting the fact that he could someday turn "it" to the Dark Side (or at least destroy them). Relatively speaking, assume that Palpatine would not have known what sex of the child would be born, or, for that matter, twins;
Point of view #3: if Padme was capable of being the mother of two strong in the Force children, why didn't Palpatine go after her himself? Note: assume that Palpatine wouldn't be the kind old fellow that she knew for years - assume that he'd be doing something very nasty to her in the guise of the Dark Lord. Also assume that at any time, Palpatine could have harvested Padme`s genetic material to clone bodies suitable for producing a whole army of Dark Jedi children for him.
* According to Dark Empire 1 and 2, Palpatine returns in a young, fresh clone of his. He has millions of them of which he continually prepares and uses.
Speculation note: of course, Palpatine was paranoid over any Force-user, so the above Point-of-view #3 is merely: pure speculation.
Episode III tidbits: I have heard rumored that EP3 will primarily focus on Padme`/Obi-Wan/Anakin and focus most of the backstory on how Anakin finally slips over the edge and becomes the baddest mofo the Known Galaxy has ever seen. Personally, I don't want a center-story of the three because it focuses too much attention that still needs to be addressed, namely where Han Solo comes in, Chewbacca, the Millennium Falcon, Lando, etc.
* Episode II SNAFU: I find it odd that the Geonosians came up with the idea of the Death Star. I am a die-hard SW:RPG afficiando and, according to the Death Star Sourncebook (by West End Games at the time), the original Death Star was supposed to have been the brainchild of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin. The actual architect was supposedly Bevel Lemelisk. So my question is, ok, are we saying that Tarkin thought of a grand battle station, and coincidentally, Palpatine had one in his hip pocket (when the data disk was handed to him by Tyranus), then handed the whole thing to Lemelisk, who analyzed it, and managed to make it reality?
Next: Obi-Wan's failing as a teacher:
* Is Obi-Wan an egocentric, masochistic, self-centered teacher?
Don't get me wrong, Obi-Wan is pretty cool - at least he mellows out quite a bit when Episode IV happens (but then again, I guess when a 2.02 meter-tall former-Padawan turned Jedi <smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont><smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont><smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont>-kicking man-machine named Lord Darth Vader, Sith, has something to do with it). And yes, I am biased towards the Empire and in favor of Anakin/Vader, but oh well.
* According to the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook for the Wizards of the Coast version of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Obi-wan is mentioned as being a sarcastic individual who had been passed over several times by Jedi Masters. Even Qui-Gon was reluctant to take him on as a student until Obi-Wan helped bring a former student of his (who was a fallen Jedi) to justice. As a matter of fact, Obi-Wan was slated to go to the AgriCorps.
* Obi-Wan had little regard for life around him. When Jar-Jar first enters the scene during Episode 1, and Obi-Wan meets him, instead of directly addressing what is clearly an intelligent being, he asks of his master, Qui-Gon Jinn, "What is THIS?" Either he was being extremely sarcastic, flippant, or intentionally ignorant of the facts.
Note: I know how most of you feel about Jar-Jar, and I was a bit "leeway" of referring to that fool of a Gungan as being "intelligent". Despite to the contrary (and I would love nothing more than seeing Anakin's first official act as the Dark Lord in Trechea Crushing his pathetic existance to nothingness), for practical purposes, he *IS* considered to be an "intelligent" lifeform.
Obi-Wan could have shown maturity by addressing Jar-Jar directly, but he doesn't.
* Obi-Wan's distain for life is again made prelevant again when Qui-Gon goes back to get Anakin (EP1). Obi-Wan sarcastically says aloud to his Master before he departs, "why do I have the feeling we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"
* Obi-Wan's insulting and inflammatory remark about his Jedi-Masters, in EP2, when he was on Kamino: "...ArFour: scramble code five to Coruscant, care of the OLD FOLK'S HOME."
Would you want this type of man as a teacher? I WOULDN'T.
Anakin's problem's are: he once was a slave and he worries about his mother. Other than that, though, he seems to show enormous respect to other Jedi Master,s particularly Mace Windu. When he is given orders twice (one to escort Padme` to Naboo, and the last to protect her life at all costs), he complies without any argument. He even compliments his Master when talking to Padme`: he referred Obi-wan was "wise as Master Yoda and as strong as Master Windu" (out of context).
I don't own the DVD-verion of the Pantomime Menace...er, Phantom Menace (excuse me :P ). But I had heard there was a deleted scene where nine year-old Anakin got mad at someone and started to punch or hit it/them, whatever it was. If someone can confirm for me....
Of course, as I've mentioned in Episode IV, when Luke asks Obi-Wan about any kind of information relating to his father, you can clearly see the sadness and regret in Old Ben's face. Clearly, they were the best of times (from Old Ben's point-of-view). Old Ben was too much of an "old fool" at the time to see it clearly.
* The next segment is clearly from my own point-of-view*:
Despite his promise to his dying Master to make Anakin a Jedi, Obi-Wan's own callousness, lack of experience, and abrasiveness is also a factor that leads to Anakin's downfall.
Discuss as follows:
* Obviously, as seen in Episode 1, Anakin is very much a good-hearted, free-spirited child who "freely gave of himself" to others. According to sourcebooks that I had, Anakin was not above helping out others - there is even a story where Anakin supposdely helped an injured Tusken Raider and nursed it back to health (ironic). So explain how or why: somewhere between Episode 1 and 2 Anakin's heart changes where he too becomes a bit abrasive.
We all know that his feelings for his mother clouded his judgement and that he harbored a crush on Padme`, but set those two factors aside and find other reasons why it seemed that Obi-Wan and Anakin were "frictioned" personalities.
Note: Obi-Wan later chastises himself in EPIV when he told Luke how much of a good friend Anakin was.
Obi-Wan mentioned also: "I once was a Jedi Knight, the same as your father...". Knowing Obi-Wan's skewered point-of-view, are we for certain going to see Anakin as a full-fledged Jedi in EPIII and become a "cunning warrior" as he'd mentioned?
Yoda mentioned in EPSB: "...if you end your training now...if you take the quick and easy path, as Vader did..." Does this mean that Anakin never became a Jedi due to his impatience, and becomes a Sith Lord because of it? Or does it imply that Anakin finished his training, became a Jedi, but becomes frustrated with the status quo and gives in to the Dark Side?
I understand that no two Jedi Masters teach the same, and that Obi-Wan meant well (as a mentor and friend), but do you suppose that Obi-Wan didn't listen when it was his time to do so, and failed in being a friend to Anakin?
Rumor mill about EPIII #1: I heard that one of the main reasons for Anakin's eventual downfall is there will be introduced a Dark Jedi woman who will sexily seduce Anakin. Padme` somehow finds out and keeps Anakin at bay, with Obi-Wan all-too eager to prevent him from seeing her, which sets him off.
Personally, IMO, this rumor suxx0rz.
Rumor #2 (EPIII): Anakin hears rumors, possibly instigated by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine that Padme` is having an affair with Bail Organa. Perhaps during the scene in EPIV when Alderaan is reduced to rubble, the once-good man that was Anakin sneered with pride and his revenge, behind the mask of Darth Vader.
Rumor #3 (EPIII): Anakin hears rumors, possibly instigated by the Supreme Chancellor, that Obi-Wan is having an affair with Padme`. Obviously, with Anakin's statement in EP2 (after he goes to rescue his mother), "he's jealous! He's holding me back!" could point in this direction. If Anakin is mislead that his Master is having an affair, this would set him to no end to prove his Master's jealousy ("I've seen the way he's looked at my wife! I've seen the way he's treated Padme`").
* Is Obi-Wan amnesiac about Anakin's mother? Of course he remembers *about her*, but seems to be indifferent about the situation with her, being a slave - unless all that time that was spent on Tattooine during EP1 was about a whole lot about nothing. The whole mess about Anakin's nightmares *could have been solved* had the Jedi Council took time and resources out to free her from slavery.
Note: it IS bogus if anyone says that "affection" and "family ties" are not allowed, due to clouding of issues and such, as dictated by the Jedi Code. The Jedi Council needs to look at it's own Jedi Masters.
Adi Gallia, Jedi Master, was born to Corellian parents, diplomats, who lived on Coruscant. She maintained relationship WITH THEM (source: Power of the Jedi sourcebook for the SWRPG). You can find more about her at http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/adigallia/index.html.
Ki-Adi-Mundi, the Cerean Jedi Knight, had several wives and children (also POTJ sourcebook) amd was even allowed to visit them. I'm not sure whether or not he was allowed to continue doing so when he received a position on the Jedi Council. Ki-Adi's info can be learned from this link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/kiadimundi/index.html.
So if Anakin cannot have a relationship, the judgement of the council IS IN QUESTION AND A HYPOCRACY.
Discuss Anakin's fate as follows:
* Will we actually see what kind of Jedi Trails Anakin undergoes to become a full Knight? Since supposedly EPIII will be three full years after EPII, of course, we might not see it, but stilll...
* Or, more likely, will we actually see what kind of SITH trials Anakin undergoes?
* Who will Darth Vader slay first? I'd like to say that he'll go after Darth Tyranus because Darth Sidious farsaw him becoming his enforcer, and they need to establish how Darth Vader becomes Dark Lord of the Sith, anyway.
* Someone mentioned that the being that Yoda fought in the Dark Tree on Degobah could be Tyranus. It doesn't say where Count Dooku's world is, but the Dark Jedi of that tree is considered to be from Bissimari, or some place....so this makes a whole ton of sense. Unless they introduce another Dark Jedi who goes after Yoda...
* Anakin's guiding light *IS* Padme`. She comforts him as he goes out to seek his mother, and gives him a shoulder to lean on when he is wracked by sorrow. Does she shrink away when she finds out that he committed small-scale genocide on the Sand People? NO. Padme` is probably the sole reason for preventing him from flipping out. If she weren't there, who knows what kind of madness he might have succumbed to. Of course, the flip-side of the coin is, if Anakin never met Qui-Gon/Padme`, he wouldn't be influenced to the Dark Side because of her (the Jedi law of affection and possession).
* Assume Anakin never met Qui-Gon and continued his existance as a slave on Tattooine. Assume that once puberty got hold of Anakin, would he still have been the sweet-minded child, or would he have become Public Enemy #1 (or any other kind of menace)?
*Theory: After watching the scene where Anakin and Padme' go to the factories of Geonosis, and watching Padme' scramble around in that huge smelting pot where molten carbomite is put, I think that during EPIII Anakin will wind up in one of those, get partially burnt, use the Force to leap out (or crawl out as mentioned in the Novel), and set him on the path of darkness...
* Who will really betray the Jedi? Will it be Anakin Skywalker before he puts on the mask, or will it be Lord Darth Vader? Obi-Wan mentions to Luke in EPIV that "...he (Vader) betrayed and murdered your father...". I can take that to say that the Jedi will think it's Anakin they're sensing...until, too late...
Check this link out:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html
This is probably the best I've seen that analyzes Lord Vader's injuries. They're more extensive than you'd think. The man, not only was he sick and walking around in an Iron Lung, also HAD A BROKEN NECK.
I have awe for someone this strong - who beat the odds and came back, darker and stronger than ever.
Anakin probably breaks his neck trying to get out of a smelting pot - probably Force Leaps out, hits his head on a metal overhang (which could explain the lacerations) and gets cybernetic replacements...
I have been thinking of a few Alternate-Universe scenerios (which I call "Alter-Verse"), and I had asked a few questions of myself:
* Is it possible that Padme didn't die, as Leia had thought? I cling to the hope that she might still be around long after the Battle of Endor. I even heard rumors from people who read some of the post-Endor books that Luke had felt a presence, thinking it was Leia, only to discover the possibility that his real mother might still be alive, and went looking for her.
* Alter-Verse scenerio: Bail Organa wasn't planetside when the Death Star reduced it to rubble.
After hearing the mention of Bail Organa's name/nominee` mentioned during the post-Supreme Chancellor Valerum's resignation, I thought back to EPIV:
* why is it we see the planet from orbit but we never EVER saw what the planet looked like from the surface or city, and that, how odd, an entire planet should die and we, the audience, should not know didly-squat about the inhabitants thereof, except by mention of Leia that she was from Alderaan? You'da thought George Lucas could have pre-frabricated some sort of city or model and said that's what Alderaan looked like, and then fleshed it out in FX-updated movies and such. But as-is, we were shown nothing, except the once-proud planet (as it were) being "kablooeyed".
I'd thought that Bail, being a fugative and a wanted man by the Empire, hid himself and a few key Alderaan nobles and helped finance the Rebel's cause, and kept himself hidden even to his adopted daughter, Leia.
Someone told me that the bulk of Leia's inheritance was already in her possession...I theory that Bail took a portion of his fortune and was able to finance the Rebels secretly (with possibly only Mon Mothma knowing) from a command ship, somewhere on the very fringe of the Galaxy.
* Here's the biggest question of them all:
The end of the Empire Strikes Back. Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo watch as Lando Calrissian and Chebacca fly off in the Millennium Falcon towards a GALAXY.
Are they flying to the Known Galaxy, home of our Star Wars universe?
IF the answer is "no", then what galaxy are we looking at?
IF the answer is "yes", then just how far out were our heroes? They were BEYOND the outer rim, several light years way way WAY outside. Just how many "light years"? We know that Hyperspace travel is faster than Star Trek's "warpspeed", but that distance from where they were to the closest "civilized" part of the Known Galaxy (if friendly to the Rebel Alliance, mind you) would have been more than several light months, wouldn't it?
* What is the deal with Threepio? Doesn't he remember Jack when we see him in EPIV? The answer: memory wipe. At least so on the part of Threepio. Another big question is: ok, if Threepio did receive a wipe, then *why*? The only one I can think of is that Threepio, Bless the Maker, has a "big mouth" and a habit of revealing the obvious. Perhaps he was wiped do prevent him spilling the beans on something relating to the Rebel Alliance (between Episodes 3 and 4).
Now, on the other hand, Artoo may still retain his memories. After all, look how quickly he goes in search of Obi-Wan in episode IV? Artoo remembers from his previous visits there.
Since we don't understand Artoo's binary language without the help of the Golden Droid, we cannot interpret him saying "oh, yeah, I remember this place", but Artoo definately knows his way. Possibly, Artoo follows around Obi-Wan in EPIII if he goes down there to deliver Luke to Owen Lars. Also assume that Obi-Wan brings Luke to Yoda while on Degobah (Luke seems to recall the place as "familiar").
Of course, Sir Alec Guinness as Old Ben's character didn't leave a surprised expression when seeing Artoo in ANH. That is probably because:
1. George Lucas hadn't anticipated the prequels where the droids would be the focus of the entire saga, and thus, Obi-Wan's lack of surprise in encountering Artoo and Threepio is genuine;
2. Obi-Wan's easing into old age (comfortably more powerful in controlling his passions as a Jedi) enabled him to play off seemingly "not recognizing" the two droids when in fact he did;
3. Obi-Wan's point-of-view is correct in his assessment in that he recalls never owning a droid, but since his perception is quite different, he couldn't say that he didn't recall several droids that look oddly familiar to the ones that are now in his presence.
Amidala's fate, part 2
From Return of the Jedi:
Luke: [to Leia] "What do you remember about your mother? Your real mother?"
Leia: "She died when I was young. She was kind, but sad." (Out of context, there's more implying script that was said here, but I cannot recall the exact lines).
* The possibility will exist that Padme` could die of complications due to childbirth, delivering twins. She could have only had the last ounce of strength to hold Leia for a short while before, assumedly, giving her to Bail Organa, then passing away.
* Ideal "Titanic" scenerio: (mega "Chick-Flick" scenerio): At the end of Return of the Jedi, when Luke sees the "trinity" that is Yoda, Obi-Wan and his father, Anakin Skywalker, Padme` comes walking out of a yellowish-celestial light, having been brought over by the grace and power of the Force.
:angel
Anyway, that's my stuff.
/rant off
Lady_X
First Lady of the Order of the Ebon Circle
http://www.coruscantcity.net/cgi-bin/board/ultimatebb.cgi?category=7
I am a Star Wars fanatic (yes, even grrls can be "geeky" too :p) and I've had a few nagging questions about some stuff in Star Wars and the episodes.
Read on, and please excuse some typos and grammar. :)
===========================================
Unsolved mysteries:
How did Senator/Supreme Chancellor Palpatine become Dark Lord of the Sith?
Discuss as follows:
* Was Palpatine a Sith Apprentice to a Dark Lord at one time, if so, who was his Master? Or did he uncover secrets by himself to become the Sith Master? Who was the last Dark Lord before Palpatine came alone (assuming he wasn't Apprenticed and there has been a lapse of time from the last known Sith Lord up until/before the Federation Trade Wars happens).
* How did Palpatine go unnoticed by Jedi Investigators at birth for Midichlorian count? Did he have parents, guardians, or whatever that secretly hid him from the Light Side on purpose? And exactly why is Palpatine so damn powerful, anyway? Aside from being a Force-User and a Darksider...
* Speculation: discuss, in theory, whether or not (as I've heard rumored) that Palpatine is directly tied to the Skywalker bloodline (by being the parent to Anakin, by seducing Shmi then wiping her memories clear)?
* From the Senator Palpatine point-of-view (pre-Supreme Chancellor days): discuss how he was able to find time away from Queen Amidala, her handmaidens, her chief of security, and everybody else, to go into his guise as Darth Sidious?
Note: it is plainly obvious that Palpatine is Sidious - otherwise, there would be no references (in various RPG supplementals and Galaxy Guides) to Palpatine/Emperor who instigated and mechanized (very brilliantly) the Trade Federation Wars (EP1, TPM) and the Separists Wars/Clone Wars (EP2 and 3) and "preyed upon the passions and the corruptions of the Senate" as Obi-Wan had said. If he is NOT Darth Sidious/the Emperor, please discuss WHY and HOW, with fact..
Note: Palpatine manipulated the Trade Federation into a war with Naboo (EP1), thereby moving them like a chess piece to ultimatley become aligned with the other various Clans and Separatists Movement (EP2), which escalates into the Clone Wars (EP3). Palpatine (A New Hope-ROTJ) then uses the basis of refering the Rebel Alliance to "Separatists", which is why he is able to continue an iron-fisted control over the Known Galaxy (aside that the Citizenry is cowed by the Rule Through Fear doctrine)...
* From the Supreme Chancellor Palpatine point-of-view, how does he find time to get away from bureaucrats, administrators, security, his staff, common citizenry, a planet that is seriously overpopulated, and most of all, the JEDI, to take on the guise of Darth Sidious? How does he get away to the "industrialized" and "darker side" of Coruscant to meet Darth Tyranus, without the Press on his heels, wanting to take pictures for the Holonews?
Note: I have already looked into the possibility that, as Master Yoda and Master Mace Windu had said, that their ability to see into the future and to use the Force had "diminished"; meaning that somehow Darth Sidious is even able to cloud the minds of these powerful Jedi, and thus, he can move about without them noticing. But answer this: Just how is Palpatine able to do that (cloud the mind of two of the most powerful Jedi of their time)?
Speculation: it is possible that Palpatine may or may not have, off-screen and non-canonically, corruptedly evil servants and machines that aid him, alert him, and guard him while he goes about his business as the Dark Lord. Or even more likely: he has a clone of himself that he is able to control. Whether the clone could be the Supreme Chancellor or Darth Sidious (or both at the same time, with the real McCoy somewhere else) is the real question.
* Palpatine's vision into the future is limited. Yes, he can see himself as the head of the Empire. Yes, he can fortell that Anakin will one day be great. But not even he could forcast that his servant, Darth Vader, would betray him - or, for that fact, sire two children who will both be instrumental in bringing the way of the Force back to the Galaxy.
Speculation: if Palpatine had known that Anakin and Padme` would someday have children, he would never have arranged for them to be together.
From a point of view #1, I could say that Palpatine arranged the whole situation knowing how Anakin would become overbalanced by the presence of Padme` and prevent him [Anakin] from becoming focused enough to use the Force and become a Jedi proper, and [Palpatine] did not forsee them having children.
Point of view #2: he knew that Anakin and Padme would have children and he got them together, suspecting the fact that he could someday turn "it" to the Dark Side (or at least destroy them). Relatively speaking, assume that Palpatine would not have known what sex of the child would be born, or, for that matter, twins;
Point of view #3: if Padme was capable of being the mother of two strong in the Force children, why didn't Palpatine go after her himself? Note: assume that Palpatine wouldn't be the kind old fellow that she knew for years - assume that he'd be doing something very nasty to her in the guise of the Dark Lord. Also assume that at any time, Palpatine could have harvested Padme`s genetic material to clone bodies suitable for producing a whole army of Dark Jedi children for him.
* According to Dark Empire 1 and 2, Palpatine returns in a young, fresh clone of his. He has millions of them of which he continually prepares and uses.
Speculation note: of course, Palpatine was paranoid over any Force-user, so the above Point-of-view #3 is merely: pure speculation.
Episode III tidbits: I have heard rumored that EP3 will primarily focus on Padme`/Obi-Wan/Anakin and focus most of the backstory on how Anakin finally slips over the edge and becomes the baddest mofo the Known Galaxy has ever seen. Personally, I don't want a center-story of the three because it focuses too much attention that still needs to be addressed, namely where Han Solo comes in, Chewbacca, the Millennium Falcon, Lando, etc.
* Episode II SNAFU: I find it odd that the Geonosians came up with the idea of the Death Star. I am a die-hard SW:RPG afficiando and, according to the Death Star Sourncebook (by West End Games at the time), the original Death Star was supposed to have been the brainchild of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin. The actual architect was supposedly Bevel Lemelisk. So my question is, ok, are we saying that Tarkin thought of a grand battle station, and coincidentally, Palpatine had one in his hip pocket (when the data disk was handed to him by Tyranus), then handed the whole thing to Lemelisk, who analyzed it, and managed to make it reality?
Next: Obi-Wan's failing as a teacher:
* Is Obi-Wan an egocentric, masochistic, self-centered teacher?
Don't get me wrong, Obi-Wan is pretty cool - at least he mellows out quite a bit when Episode IV happens (but then again, I guess when a 2.02 meter-tall former-Padawan turned Jedi <smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont><smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont><smallfont color=#FF0000>-Censored-</smallfont>-kicking man-machine named Lord Darth Vader, Sith, has something to do with it). And yes, I am biased towards the Empire and in favor of Anakin/Vader, but oh well.
* According to the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook for the Wizards of the Coast version of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Obi-wan is mentioned as being a sarcastic individual who had been passed over several times by Jedi Masters. Even Qui-Gon was reluctant to take him on as a student until Obi-Wan helped bring a former student of his (who was a fallen Jedi) to justice. As a matter of fact, Obi-Wan was slated to go to the AgriCorps.
* Obi-Wan had little regard for life around him. When Jar-Jar first enters the scene during Episode 1, and Obi-Wan meets him, instead of directly addressing what is clearly an intelligent being, he asks of his master, Qui-Gon Jinn, "What is THIS?" Either he was being extremely sarcastic, flippant, or intentionally ignorant of the facts.
Note: I know how most of you feel about Jar-Jar, and I was a bit "leeway" of referring to that fool of a Gungan as being "intelligent". Despite to the contrary (and I would love nothing more than seeing Anakin's first official act as the Dark Lord in Trechea Crushing his pathetic existance to nothingness), for practical purposes, he *IS* considered to be an "intelligent" lifeform.
Obi-Wan could have shown maturity by addressing Jar-Jar directly, but he doesn't.
* Obi-Wan's distain for life is again made prelevant again when Qui-Gon goes back to get Anakin (EP1). Obi-Wan sarcastically says aloud to his Master before he departs, "why do I have the feeling we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"
* Obi-Wan's insulting and inflammatory remark about his Jedi-Masters, in EP2, when he was on Kamino: "...ArFour: scramble code five to Coruscant, care of the OLD FOLK'S HOME."
Would you want this type of man as a teacher? I WOULDN'T.
Anakin's problem's are: he once was a slave and he worries about his mother. Other than that, though, he seems to show enormous respect to other Jedi Master,s particularly Mace Windu. When he is given orders twice (one to escort Padme` to Naboo, and the last to protect her life at all costs), he complies without any argument. He even compliments his Master when talking to Padme`: he referred Obi-wan was "wise as Master Yoda and as strong as Master Windu" (out of context).
I don't own the DVD-verion of the Pantomime Menace...er, Phantom Menace (excuse me :P ). But I had heard there was a deleted scene where nine year-old Anakin got mad at someone and started to punch or hit it/them, whatever it was. If someone can confirm for me....
Of course, as I've mentioned in Episode IV, when Luke asks Obi-Wan about any kind of information relating to his father, you can clearly see the sadness and regret in Old Ben's face. Clearly, they were the best of times (from Old Ben's point-of-view). Old Ben was too much of an "old fool" at the time to see it clearly.
* The next segment is clearly from my own point-of-view*:
Despite his promise to his dying Master to make Anakin a Jedi, Obi-Wan's own callousness, lack of experience, and abrasiveness is also a factor that leads to Anakin's downfall.
Discuss as follows:
* Obviously, as seen in Episode 1, Anakin is very much a good-hearted, free-spirited child who "freely gave of himself" to others. According to sourcebooks that I had, Anakin was not above helping out others - there is even a story where Anakin supposdely helped an injured Tusken Raider and nursed it back to health (ironic). So explain how or why: somewhere between Episode 1 and 2 Anakin's heart changes where he too becomes a bit abrasive.
We all know that his feelings for his mother clouded his judgement and that he harbored a crush on Padme`, but set those two factors aside and find other reasons why it seemed that Obi-Wan and Anakin were "frictioned" personalities.
Note: Obi-Wan later chastises himself in EPIV when he told Luke how much of a good friend Anakin was.
Obi-Wan mentioned also: "I once was a Jedi Knight, the same as your father...". Knowing Obi-Wan's skewered point-of-view, are we for certain going to see Anakin as a full-fledged Jedi in EPIII and become a "cunning warrior" as he'd mentioned?
Yoda mentioned in EPSB: "...if you end your training now...if you take the quick and easy path, as Vader did..." Does this mean that Anakin never became a Jedi due to his impatience, and becomes a Sith Lord because of it? Or does it imply that Anakin finished his training, became a Jedi, but becomes frustrated with the status quo and gives in to the Dark Side?
I understand that no two Jedi Masters teach the same, and that Obi-Wan meant well (as a mentor and friend), but do you suppose that Obi-Wan didn't listen when it was his time to do so, and failed in being a friend to Anakin?
Rumor mill about EPIII #1: I heard that one of the main reasons for Anakin's eventual downfall is there will be introduced a Dark Jedi woman who will sexily seduce Anakin. Padme` somehow finds out and keeps Anakin at bay, with Obi-Wan all-too eager to prevent him from seeing her, which sets him off.
Personally, IMO, this rumor suxx0rz.
Rumor #2 (EPIII): Anakin hears rumors, possibly instigated by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine that Padme` is having an affair with Bail Organa. Perhaps during the scene in EPIV when Alderaan is reduced to rubble, the once-good man that was Anakin sneered with pride and his revenge, behind the mask of Darth Vader.
Rumor #3 (EPIII): Anakin hears rumors, possibly instigated by the Supreme Chancellor, that Obi-Wan is having an affair with Padme`. Obviously, with Anakin's statement in EP2 (after he goes to rescue his mother), "he's jealous! He's holding me back!" could point in this direction. If Anakin is mislead that his Master is having an affair, this would set him to no end to prove his Master's jealousy ("I've seen the way he's looked at my wife! I've seen the way he's treated Padme`").
* Is Obi-Wan amnesiac about Anakin's mother? Of course he remembers *about her*, but seems to be indifferent about the situation with her, being a slave - unless all that time that was spent on Tattooine during EP1 was about a whole lot about nothing. The whole mess about Anakin's nightmares *could have been solved* had the Jedi Council took time and resources out to free her from slavery.
Note: it IS bogus if anyone says that "affection" and "family ties" are not allowed, due to clouding of issues and such, as dictated by the Jedi Code. The Jedi Council needs to look at it's own Jedi Masters.
Adi Gallia, Jedi Master, was born to Corellian parents, diplomats, who lived on Coruscant. She maintained relationship WITH THEM (source: Power of the Jedi sourcebook for the SWRPG). You can find more about her at http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/adigallia/index.html.
Ki-Adi-Mundi, the Cerean Jedi Knight, had several wives and children (also POTJ sourcebook) amd was even allowed to visit them. I'm not sure whether or not he was allowed to continue doing so when he received a position on the Jedi Council. Ki-Adi's info can be learned from this link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/kiadimundi/index.html.
So if Anakin cannot have a relationship, the judgement of the council IS IN QUESTION AND A HYPOCRACY.
Discuss Anakin's fate as follows:
* Will we actually see what kind of Jedi Trails Anakin undergoes to become a full Knight? Since supposedly EPIII will be three full years after EPII, of course, we might not see it, but stilll...
* Or, more likely, will we actually see what kind of SITH trials Anakin undergoes?
* Who will Darth Vader slay first? I'd like to say that he'll go after Darth Tyranus because Darth Sidious farsaw him becoming his enforcer, and they need to establish how Darth Vader becomes Dark Lord of the Sith, anyway.
* Someone mentioned that the being that Yoda fought in the Dark Tree on Degobah could be Tyranus. It doesn't say where Count Dooku's world is, but the Dark Jedi of that tree is considered to be from Bissimari, or some place....so this makes a whole ton of sense. Unless they introduce another Dark Jedi who goes after Yoda...
* Anakin's guiding light *IS* Padme`. She comforts him as he goes out to seek his mother, and gives him a shoulder to lean on when he is wracked by sorrow. Does she shrink away when she finds out that he committed small-scale genocide on the Sand People? NO. Padme` is probably the sole reason for preventing him from flipping out. If she weren't there, who knows what kind of madness he might have succumbed to. Of course, the flip-side of the coin is, if Anakin never met Qui-Gon/Padme`, he wouldn't be influenced to the Dark Side because of her (the Jedi law of affection and possession).
* Assume Anakin never met Qui-Gon and continued his existance as a slave on Tattooine. Assume that once puberty got hold of Anakin, would he still have been the sweet-minded child, or would he have become Public Enemy #1 (or any other kind of menace)?
*Theory: After watching the scene where Anakin and Padme' go to the factories of Geonosis, and watching Padme' scramble around in that huge smelting pot where molten carbomite is put, I think that during EPIII Anakin will wind up in one of those, get partially burnt, use the Force to leap out (or crawl out as mentioned in the Novel), and set him on the path of darkness...
* Who will really betray the Jedi? Will it be Anakin Skywalker before he puts on the mask, or will it be Lord Darth Vader? Obi-Wan mentions to Luke in EPIV that "...he (Vader) betrayed and murdered your father...". I can take that to say that the Jedi will think it's Anakin they're sensing...until, too late...
Check this link out:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html
This is probably the best I've seen that analyzes Lord Vader's injuries. They're more extensive than you'd think. The man, not only was he sick and walking around in an Iron Lung, also HAD A BROKEN NECK.
I have awe for someone this strong - who beat the odds and came back, darker and stronger than ever.
Anakin probably breaks his neck trying to get out of a smelting pot - probably Force Leaps out, hits his head on a metal overhang (which could explain the lacerations) and gets cybernetic replacements...
I have been thinking of a few Alternate-Universe scenerios (which I call "Alter-Verse"), and I had asked a few questions of myself:
* Is it possible that Padme didn't die, as Leia had thought? I cling to the hope that she might still be around long after the Battle of Endor. I even heard rumors from people who read some of the post-Endor books that Luke had felt a presence, thinking it was Leia, only to discover the possibility that his real mother might still be alive, and went looking for her.
* Alter-Verse scenerio: Bail Organa wasn't planetside when the Death Star reduced it to rubble.
After hearing the mention of Bail Organa's name/nominee` mentioned during the post-Supreme Chancellor Valerum's resignation, I thought back to EPIV:
* why is it we see the planet from orbit but we never EVER saw what the planet looked like from the surface or city, and that, how odd, an entire planet should die and we, the audience, should not know didly-squat about the inhabitants thereof, except by mention of Leia that she was from Alderaan? You'da thought George Lucas could have pre-frabricated some sort of city or model and said that's what Alderaan looked like, and then fleshed it out in FX-updated movies and such. But as-is, we were shown nothing, except the once-proud planet (as it were) being "kablooeyed".
I'd thought that Bail, being a fugative and a wanted man by the Empire, hid himself and a few key Alderaan nobles and helped finance the Rebel's cause, and kept himself hidden even to his adopted daughter, Leia.
Someone told me that the bulk of Leia's inheritance was already in her possession...I theory that Bail took a portion of his fortune and was able to finance the Rebels secretly (with possibly only Mon Mothma knowing) from a command ship, somewhere on the very fringe of the Galaxy.
* Here's the biggest question of them all:
The end of the Empire Strikes Back. Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo watch as Lando Calrissian and Chebacca fly off in the Millennium Falcon towards a GALAXY.
Are they flying to the Known Galaxy, home of our Star Wars universe?
IF the answer is "no", then what galaxy are we looking at?
IF the answer is "yes", then just how far out were our heroes? They were BEYOND the outer rim, several light years way way WAY outside. Just how many "light years"? We know that Hyperspace travel is faster than Star Trek's "warpspeed", but that distance from where they were to the closest "civilized" part of the Known Galaxy (if friendly to the Rebel Alliance, mind you) would have been more than several light months, wouldn't it?
* What is the deal with Threepio? Doesn't he remember Jack when we see him in EPIV? The answer: memory wipe. At least so on the part of Threepio. Another big question is: ok, if Threepio did receive a wipe, then *why*? The only one I can think of is that Threepio, Bless the Maker, has a "big mouth" and a habit of revealing the obvious. Perhaps he was wiped do prevent him spilling the beans on something relating to the Rebel Alliance (between Episodes 3 and 4).
Now, on the other hand, Artoo may still retain his memories. After all, look how quickly he goes in search of Obi-Wan in episode IV? Artoo remembers from his previous visits there.
Since we don't understand Artoo's binary language without the help of the Golden Droid, we cannot interpret him saying "oh, yeah, I remember this place", but Artoo definately knows his way. Possibly, Artoo follows around Obi-Wan in EPIII if he goes down there to deliver Luke to Owen Lars. Also assume that Obi-Wan brings Luke to Yoda while on Degobah (Luke seems to recall the place as "familiar").
Of course, Sir Alec Guinness as Old Ben's character didn't leave a surprised expression when seeing Artoo in ANH. That is probably because:
1. George Lucas hadn't anticipated the prequels where the droids would be the focus of the entire saga, and thus, Obi-Wan's lack of surprise in encountering Artoo and Threepio is genuine;
2. Obi-Wan's easing into old age (comfortably more powerful in controlling his passions as a Jedi) enabled him to play off seemingly "not recognizing" the two droids when in fact he did;
3. Obi-Wan's point-of-view is correct in his assessment in that he recalls never owning a droid, but since his perception is quite different, he couldn't say that he didn't recall several droids that look oddly familiar to the ones that are now in his presence.
Amidala's fate, part 2
From Return of the Jedi:
Luke: [to Leia] "What do you remember about your mother? Your real mother?"
Leia: "She died when I was young. She was kind, but sad." (Out of context, there's more implying script that was said here, but I cannot recall the exact lines).
* The possibility will exist that Padme` could die of complications due to childbirth, delivering twins. She could have only had the last ounce of strength to hold Leia for a short while before, assumedly, giving her to Bail Organa, then passing away.
* Ideal "Titanic" scenerio: (mega "Chick-Flick" scenerio): At the end of Return of the Jedi, when Luke sees the "trinity" that is Yoda, Obi-Wan and his father, Anakin Skywalker, Padme` comes walking out of a yellowish-celestial light, having been brought over by the grace and power of the Force.
:angel
Anyway, that's my stuff.
/rant off
Lady_X
First Lady of the Order of the Ebon Circle
http://www.coruscantcity.net/cgi-bin/board/ultimatebb.cgi?category=7