Whoa, you guys won't believe this!

[JonathanLB]

Well my review of the small film "Time Changer" has become quite a subject of controversy among visitors to my site and it generates at least 1 e-mail per day, which is about all of the e-mail I get from the entire site generally.

The review is available here and I'll summarize so you get the idea of what I'm saying:

http://www.jlbmovies.com/TimeChanger.shtml

Basically, I panned the film, gave it 1/2 star and went into depth about how it failed on so many levels, not the least of which was awful acting and apparently very pathetic directing.

Well guess what? Today, I check my movies@jlbmedia.com e-mail address, and what do I find but an e-mail from RICH CHRISTIANO, the DIRECTOR of Time Changer!!! It's obviously authentic because it comes from an e-mail address that you couldn't obtain unless you worked with the Christian movie site that manages movies like Time Changer. It's without a doubt the director himself.

He sent me a short e-mail, but I'll respond back and tell him more about why I said what I did about his movie.

Specifically he wrote:

"Tell Jonathan Bowen that I read his review of Time Changer and I think he missed the point. I would be interested to know how he answers the key questions in life and how he thinks one receives eternal life.

We feel that Time Changer does present solid answers in a good way that is NOT offensive."

I'm definitely willing to explain to him why his movie failed for me and why I personally found it overly preachy and VERY offensive.

I'm not alone, either. Other critics have bashed this film for its awful acting and preachy, infantile structure. I had a letter to the editor published in the Sacramento Bee just a few weeks ago after writing to the critic there who gave the film 1.5 stars and I told him I agreed with him, but that I was going to be even more harsh in my review, and he agreed with me that the film was offensive and overly preachy.

Anyhow, I don't know, I still feel like this is an absolutely landmark e-mail for me! I mean, it's like sudden realization that *I*, on some level, am making a difference and being heard! Yet I'm only 19 and my opinion by no means is, well, valuable to the film industry in any particular way, but I suspect that because Time Changer has so few reviews, he happened to read mine. I'm just rather amazed.

I do not mean to offend this guy, but I realize that's probably too late. I mean, he could be a really nice, great guy, but I am a really honest, sometimes harsh critic. I say what I think, no matter what, and I think all critics should do that. It would undermine my integrity if I went easy on any film for any reason, and the day that I work in Hollywood and know James Cameron by the name "Jim," I am going to have to quit writing public movie reviews because it wouldn't be appropriate anymore. It just wouldn't work. (I have, on the other hand, imagined secretly writing reviews of everything to be published or posted when I'm like 85 and retired, LOL!).

Anyway I just had to share that because I think it is so odd, to get an e-mail from an actual director of a movie you reviewed! I mean, how cool, but weird is that?! I'd rather it be Ridley Scott saying, "Dude, thanks for your great review of Black Hawk Down and Gladiator, your site rocks!" but, hahaha, oh well back to reality huh? ;)

[Gurney Devries]

Hmm... I wasn't even slightly interested in this movie before. But, seeing as how you not only gave it a horrible review, but garnered quite a bit of negative feedback about your review, I'm definitely going to have to go see it now. ;)

[Dae Jinn]

:lol

It's sounds awful....:x

Cool that you got feed-back from an actual director, even though you sorta bashed him and his film ^_^;

[JonathanLB]

I know, I feel totally like a DICK now.

I mean, I just call it as I see it, but he severly offended me with his movie. I mean, the movie didn't SUGGEST, it flat out SAID that the movie industry has "long been known as a tool of the Devil," and I was just like, "EXCUSE ME?!?!?!" I love movies, and we all love movies here at this forum, I fail to see how anyone could think that was NOT an offensive message!

I guess I really like this quote, someone remind me who said it, something like: "I think that it is best to have ideas, not beliefs, because ideas can be changed but beliefs are" I dunno, more "set in stone." I'm very very roughly paraphrasing but that was the idea.

I don't have any BELIEFS about our reality or an afterlife, but I certainly don't "believe" in Christianity, Judaism, any of that. I have IDEAS, like maybe this is The Matrix, or maybe we are all dreaming, or maybe this is actually part of another huge being and this planet is like a cell in another creature, or something like that. I find those reality type of films fascinating, you know, The Thirteenth Floor, Waking Life, The Matrix, etc. So I just have all of these ideas, some of them entirely conflicting, and I enjoy discussing them because I agree with the saying, "How can a painting possibly know anything about its painter?" That's my theory. We can't know, we won't ever know, and anyone who says they KNOW that there is a God and they KNOW it is a Christian God and they KNOW that Jesus is going to come back soon and all, well I'm sorry nobody knows any of that! They may believe it, but if we KNEW that we'd all know it and it wouldn't be belief, but fact. It isn't fact. No religious scholars claim that religion is fact, that is why it is called FAITH.

Plus, I don't think Christianity is wrong, any more than I think The Matrix is wrong, but I much prefer people presenting their ideas in a manner that is not judgmental. I don't need to hear, "You are a rotten person in a rotten society and are going to hell unless you accept Jesus." Even if someone believes that (and it is their right to believe this!), I would think it is in better taste for them to keep that opinion to themselves and find a more diplomatic way of stating things. I am definitely not an atheist, if anything I'm perhaps more of an agnostic but even then, I don't deny the existence of a god, I just haven't found reason so far to think there is or is not. Two weeks from now, maybe I'll say yes there is, four weeks later maybe I'll say no there is not, and if I said yes or no, it wouldn't be based on an established religion likely but on a philosophical stance.

Anyway not to get into religion because if there is something I have learned, you don't want to get into heated discussions on religion and politics, but suffice to say I do feel that everyone has the right to believe what they want and there is no significant proof against any of these theories really. I had even thought of the idea, hey, what if the entire universe just came into being the moment you were born? Who is to say it didn't?! I mean, it's an egocentric view (meaning based on yourself), but it is nonetheless a theory that could be fascinating if explored properly in some movie. Like, for instance, if everything else just was created and the world was given history and the universe given history the moment you came into being, but really you, as you know yourself, are not "real," you're in a simulation and just don't know it yet. That's crazy, perhaps, but I'm trying to emphasize the point that I'm open to all kinds of very odd ideas that I may not support whatsoever, but find interesting nonetheless.

I always think that if a person wants to convert another person to their beliefs, they do so through logical argument and example. My friend Ben has basically turned me into a Libertarian because he absolutely convinced me that the values I thought I stood for as a Republican were not being carried out by my party and that what I really thought was more libertarian. Interestingly, I took a survey a few years back that said the same thing, but I just was like, "Pshh, whatever, I'm a republican." Well I started to think over the issues and I just thought, "You know, I don't really like Gore at all, and I really think Bush isn't serving my interests that much either, I don't like either of them, I don't like the party bickering, don't like anything that is going on here." Ben didn't say, "If you're not a libertarian, you are STUPID," because if he said that I'd be like, "Dude, whatever," and I'd never respect his opinions about politics again. Instead he showed me logically that I really should believe what he was saying and that in fact I did support libertarian issues and just didn't know it because I was used to believing I was a republican.

Gurney, funny, and feel free to see the movie for yourself, but be warned that it is a poor film. The acting is just awful. The lead actor is without doubt the worst of the year. If you are really radically Christian, though, you may enjoy it. If you believe that society today is horrible, society was perfect 100 years ago, and that the end of the world is near, that all other religious people of any other faith are going to Hell, that the movie industry is Satan's tool, that the world was created 2,000 years ago, that the Earth is flat, etc. Just kidding about the last one, by the way, lol. But you never know... this movie seems to take the Bible entirely literally...

Oh, and another thought I had, I have to write this because I've been thinking about it for years...

It seems to me the universe must have had a starting point in time, which brings up entirely different arguments, but here is why I say that:

If INFINITE time passed before you were born, and then you were born, and then after you die INFINITE time passes again, uhh... that is not possible. It's logically impossible. Infinite time implies endless, and endless time cannot pass, then suddenly something happens, and then after that it is endless again. No. That's logically not possible. It could be like 100 billion years passed, then you're born, then you die, and infinite time passes after that, but this model doesn't work:

Infinite... Something... Infinite again. LOL, that's just not possible

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Actually that sounds like a movie I might enjoy. :mischief

Something to realize, even if it is not something that you truly believe, is that there are people, I like to call them 'Christians' who actually believe (I'm getting my only information on the movie from your review) some if not most of what this movie appears to portray. I for one am not ashamed to say that I am a Christian, but I will also NOW say that any rebuttal or ridicule of my beliefs should occur on AIM or Yahoo messenger, and not on the boards, as religious discussions turn everyone's stomachs. But I'm not afraid to hear any one's views.

Also, I haven't seen the movie, but I'll try to find a copy of it now, so that I can access myself how accurate or 'good' I find the movie.

[Gurney Devries]

It still doesn't sound very interesting. But anything that stirs up this much controversy has to be worth seeing at least once.

I get the impression this is going to evolve into a religious debate rather quickly.

[Dae Jinn]

I wasn't agreeing with what the film was preaching. Lord no.

I personally think everyones beliefs or ideas about those things are their own, and people shouldn't be told how to think and what to believe.

You said:
I always think that if a person wants to convert another person to their beliefs, they do so through logical argument and example.

I totally agree with this, and I hate (personally) when people try to force their ideals on others. :\ I have had a lot of people try to convince me of the joys of religion, but it's just not me. I know some people have great experiences with religion, and I'm happy for them, but it's just not for me. :)
Oh, and you gotta love Ultra-Christians. I used to have to share a bus to high-school with a few :x :lol

[Figrin D'an]

"I just think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. People will die for their beliefs."

- Rufus, "Dogma".


:)

[Dae Jinn]

I love that movie :)

[Gurney Devries]

Dogma, despite poking fun at organized religion, had some many valid points like that.

[Figrin D'an]

"Dogma" is one of my favorite films. Of course, I like just about all of Kevin Smith's work. Of his "Jersey Trilogy" though, "Dogma" is my personal fav.

As for "Time Changer"... I had heard the name, but nothing beyond that. I guess it could be worth the time if it is indeed that controversial. Then again... maybe that's the whole point of the film...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I always think that if a person wants to convert another person to their beliefs, they do so through logical argument and example. I one million percent agree.

[JonathanLB]

A Kevin Smith fan in the building maybe? Smith rocks...

He's one of the most thoughtful comedy filmmakers around.

Yeah, yeah, we shouldn't talk religion, no blasters, no blasters! :)

Christians, as well as others, though, are free to believe whatever they want. I am also free to believe that people who think EVERYONE ELSE BUT THEM are going to hell are, umm, in need of a little more open-minded attitudes. That's just me, though. Plus, the world did exist before Jesus Christ, amazingly! We have historical records of this, LOL, and those people all went to hell I guess according to some Christians? Wow ouch, that's pretty harsh...

Jesus was a Jew, but Jewish people are going to hell. Hmm... I find that hard to believe for some reason. Anyway, though, I'll shutup now.

Shutup Jonathan.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Logical arguments are always best. But I will not go into anything here.

[Gurney Devries]

The problem is, all religion is about Faith. Faith is defined as believing in something without any evidence that it exist or that it's true. Logical arguments are performed by presenting facts and evidence - neither of which can really be employed when discussing faith. If you were to have evidence that something existed, you would no longer have Faith.

And, on that note: Some Douglas Adams:
The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with the nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing.

Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Gurney Devries
The problem is, all religion is about Faith. Faith is defined as believing in something without any evidence that it exist or that it's true. Logical arguments are performed by presenting facts and evidence - neither of which can really be employed when discussing faith. If you were to have evidence that something existed, you would no longer have Faith.


And that is the very reason I don't get involved in arguements about religion and faith. You can't argue a faith-based belief with logic. Simultaneously, you can't use faith to prove a flaw in logic. It's cyclical, and it tends to get ugly.

So... I don't get involved. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:lol:lol excellent

[JonathanLB]

True, true.

But I don't think that religion is worth arguing about anyway, nobody is wrong, so nobody can win or lose IMO. More like everyone can lose, actually, if it gets ugly.

I do love discussing crazy existentialism ideas and weird reality theories, though, I must admit. That just gets me all warm and fuzzy inside, haha, j/k. But no seriously, that is my genre, I love those films and I want to make those kind eventually.

[Figrin D'an]

Existentialism is fun to talk about when people don't quite get it... you can talk them in circles and really mess with their heads. :)


lol... I can be so cruel sometimes...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If no one is wrong, how can anyone be right?

[JonathanLB]

Nobody is right either. Not in the normal way we think of "right" anyway.

I sent Christiano a response, we'll see what he says, haha.

[Dae Jinn]

:lol

You're speakig the truth when you say it can get ugly...I mean, look at the middle east :x But, as LD did, I won't get into my personal opinions on that partcular subject. :)

I hope you do get a reply *wonders what you wrote* :lol

[sirdizzy]

wow your famous now

[Jedieb]

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.
I think the same has been said about organized religion. :rolleyes

On a somewhat related note, muslim extremist have killed over 100 and injured 500 in Nigeria. What sparked the violence? The Miss World pageant! Apparently a newspaper printed an editorial in which they said the prophet Muhammed would have approved of the pageant. They suggested that if Muhammed were alive today he would probably choose a wife from among the contestants.

So in order to show their true faith and make a statement against immorality and promiscuity hundred of crazed true believers decided to kill and maim hundreds. They pulled commuters out of vehicles and beat them to death. One young man was doused with a flammable liquid and burned alive. It makes perfect sense doesn't it? What better way to show your faith and devotion to your God than by killing?

[JonathanLB]

Praise be to Allah. Burn the infidels!

[Oriadin]

Johnathen, I have to say that some of your words about life and theories on life are about the first thing ive ever agreed with you on. :lol

I to am exactly the same with my interest in theories of where we came from and what the world may be like. I really enjoyed The truman show. I have to say im a Jim Carey fan but the idea of the film also struck me. Someone thinking they are living a real life but unknown to him, he is some sort of entertainment to people. If that were true about life as we know it, then everything we think we know about science could simply be made up, for entertaining purposes.

If you think about it, life simply doesnt make sense. We cant comprehend how big the galaxy is or when time began because logic then asks, well what was before that and how did the galaxy form out of nothing. Its the chicken and the egg question. I dont think its something we will ever solve either. Put simply it just doens make sense. If there was another world, outside ours watching for entertainment, or for experiments or whatever then its entierly possible that everything we think we know about science is wrong. Perhaps the thoery of time is complete rubbish and in truth people would just laugh it off.

Its complicated to explain what I mean and I always get this feeling that things are way to big to even think about! Im sure im not the only one either.

I do have a friend however, that is very religious and I can see why (Dont really want to go into detail). Infact it was his religion that probably made us friends. We used to have these huge discussions about my theories and his religion. I guess I just found it extreamly interesting to hear somone elses ideas that were different to my own. See things from his point of view. Because we were friends we had complete respect for each other and things have never turned ugly and I doubt they will.

I havent read your review JB and to be honest, I havent heard of this film either but judging by the comments made here, i'll probably go and see it because anyones theory, beliefs or ideas Im willing to listen to and hear what they are saying. Anyone can teach everyone something and to not bother listning to what someone else to say is a big mistake, whether you agree with them or not.

Here endith the rant :)

[CMJ]

Hey Jonathan...that's awesome. Correspondence with a REAL Director. :D

As far as religion, as much as I'd like to get into it, it's one of the most divisive subjects one can possibly discuss. Not a good idea. ;)

I will say, one of the resons my ex girlfriend and I broke up was my lack of "faith"....

[JonathanLB]

True, after all I did see the movie. :)

Yeah it could be like there is another reality outside of this and this is basically like a big game. When you finish, you get a point total, are entered into the hall of fame if you did well, and then everyone is like, "Haha, time? WTF? That is illogical. I can't believe that the game is so realistic it can make you believe in the existence of something as abstract as time. Wow. Anyway, good game, welcome back." haha

[JonathanLB]

"I will say, one of the resons my ex girlfriend and I broke up was my lack of "faith"...."

Ouch man. That just solidifies the notion that I'll probably never have a girlfriend. I think more girls are religious than guys, in my experience, and that doesn't bode well for me. lol.

"Hey Jonathan...that's awesome. Correspondence with a REAL Director."

Well CMJ I wouldn't go THAT far, but it is cool! :D haha, j/k

[jjwr]

Just so you know its not that hard to spoof a domain name on a email addy, so it may not be real :)

[JonathanLB]

But I doubt anyone would bother, to be honest. If it were Steven Spielberg I'd be like, "It is fake," but this film isn't that big. It barely grossed anything, there are like 5 reviews online, maybe 10, and it wouldn't hard to imagine him reading through a few of them.

[jjwr]

Yeah I know its probably real but just letting you know that just because it looks authentic doesn't mean it necessarily is.

[JonathanLB]

Same is true of the world -- just because it looks authentic doesn't necessarily mean it is ;)

[Oriadin]

I will have to see the film before I can agree with your statements about it though JB. If im truly honest I have to say I dont really like many film critics. I often think that they become TOO critical of a film. They cant simply go see a film and enjoy it. They have to pick all the pieces. At the end of the day, you could watch 2 hours of complete rubbish but if its fun, entertaining, makes you think or has some reaction to you other than yawn then I think its probably done its job.

As im sure you realise, films are a personal thing too. not everyone will like a film, and not everyone will hate it. Its down to an individuals thoughts, imagination and ideas. I try not to read to many reviews these days. If I enjoy a film, I'll look for reviews after, where the reviewer also enjoyed it. If I didnt enjoy it then I'll find a review that again agrees with me.

[Sanis Prent]

I tolerate atheists, agnostics, and other religions.

But tolerance != acceptance.

That is why this will be my first and last post in here, because religious discussions go about as well as hand grenades without pins.

[JonathanLB]

Well I feel the same way you do about most film critics. Then again, I'm about middle of the road maybe in harshness. I give far more 0 star and 1/2 star reviews than Ebert and almost any other critic, but I also give a lot of 2.5's and 3's, comparatively.

I don't try to be too harsh at all, so there are many movies I've given much better grades than some people think they deserve, but oh well. I call 'em as I see 'em.

[Oriadin]

thats fair enough, I just dont normally agree with most film critics. Its rare I agree with yours, sorry :)

As I say, its a pretty personal thing really. One person will love a film and another hate it. They both see it the same way, hear it the same way it just depends on your personality and experiences I guess.

[JonathanLB]

Well you have to find a critic you agree with, that is really important, but in many cases with the most influential films, like the AFI top 100 for instance (most of it), I provide a lot of analysis too, so it should be valuable information (factual) to anyone. I definitely like to get into the analysis so that I don't end up just having entirely 100% opinions.

[Sene Unty]

Cograts on your correspondance with a director Jonathan! :D

Did you reply to his E-mail?

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
I mean, I just call it as I see it, but he severly offended me with his movie. I mean, the movie didn't SUGGEST, it flat out SAID that the movie industry has "long been known as a tool of the Devil," and I was just like, "EXCUSE ME?!?!?!" I love movies, and we all love movies here at this forum, I fail to see how anyone could think that was NOT an offensive message!

You mean he stated something as a FACT instead of an OPINION? :p

[Sanis Prent]

:lol!!! Oh that's gold, Dutchy. You've struck a mortal wound with the sword of irony.

[JonathanLB]

Umm whatever, lol. No he didn't state anything as fact really, it was just a movie about his beliefs and I happened to find those statements in the film quite offensive.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Excellent point Charley. In order to tolerate something you must first come to the realization that you disagree with them. If they were right, in your opinion, you wouldn't have to tolerate them. They'd be 'on your side' so to speak. What's there to tolerate if you already believe the same?

If I have to tolerate atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Catholics, whoever... then first we must just agree to disagree. Tolerance does not mean that everyone is right. Many, if not MOST, times society falls into the "tolerance trap" in which we are led to believe that in order to tolerate other's opinions, we must accept them as equally right in our own opinions!

This is completely and utterly false. If I thought that worshipping trees and sacrificing animals was correct, then I wouldn't be able to tolerate people who do that. I would be ONE of the people. In order to tolerate them, I must by definition disagree with their beliefs. Does this mean I have to be rude or hate them? By no means. I have more but I have to go back to work. :x

[Admiral Lebron]

Last weeks south park was about tolerance... >_<

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Gurney Devries
The problem is, all religion is about Faith. Faith is defined as believing in something without any evidence that it exist or that it's true. Logical arguments are performed by presenting facts and evidence - neither of which can really be employed when discussing faith. If you were to have evidence that something existed, you would no longer have Faith.

And, on that note: Some Douglas Adams:

OK I wanted to say not all religions are about Faith, some are most notably Christianity and Islam and Judaism to some extent. Buddaism is not for example it has to do with something else, and I also think Hinduism, and other Eastern religions don't push faith as hard as the Judeo-Christian-Islam religion does. But that is a mute point since about half the population of the world believes in faith. As far as that movie well he is entilted to his opinion, though the movie does seem preachy and defintely not one that I would watch, (I can't watch those religious type films, Left Behind, etc they just don't interest me).

Also about tolerance, I am a very tolerant person but I actually accept all religions, I don't accept cults but that is a different matter. I personally feel that anybody can worship and god, diety they want, if they want to worship Winnie the Poo that is fine by me they can go ahead, it doesn't affect what I do. Also its weird the whole notion of tolerance is really a recent concept at least to Christianity. Tolerance didn't exist in the middle ages, the old Catholic church burned people who disagreed with it, killed Jews for fun, burned people who they deemed as heritics, and actually went on crusades to rid the Holy Land of the evil infideles. It didn't get any better in the reformation as the most of the Protesants sects did the same thing (Puritians killing Witches comes to mind). This notion really continued until the 18th century when two groups disagreed with it. One was Roger Williams who felt that the state should tolerate all citizens. He was kicked out of Massachusetts for this belief, and he settled in what is now Rhode Island and he let in just about anybody (this included Jews). The other group were the Quakers, who went a step farther and even preached acceptance, they even accepted the indians and actually treated them the best of all people who settled in North America. The Quakers and Roger Williams helped to influnce some of our founding fathers who adopted this principal (of course most of them were deists so that influenced them as well). That is why tolerance is so much apart of our society though in certain parts of the world and probably even in the U.S there are people who aren't.

[Oriadin]

My stand is, im not religious in any way shape or form. I sometimes wish I was however. I would think that the idea of someone always looking out for you and a life after death would be a comfort.

Rather than say, no your wrong Im always interested to see WHY they think the way they do. What gives them their faith and to keep that faith. I just find it very interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on life. If someone belives in a god, who are we to take that away from them? Listen to what they have to say and reply by saying, thats great.

Everyone belives in something whether its God, friends, family, luck money or whatever. I personally belive in fate and destiny and that in the end, things turn out the way they are supposed to.

[Jedieb]

Everyone belives in something whether its God, friends, family, luck money or whatever. I personally belive in fate and destiny and that in the end, things turn out the way they are supposed to.

"There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."

I'm not a big beliver in fate or destiny. To me, those concepts take control away from us. I believe we make our own fate. You weren't destined to get hit by a bus, you just weren't watching where you were going. Consequently, you don't end up with most of what your heart desires, you work your butt off. Yeah, you can get lucky. In fact, I believe more in chance and luck than I do fate and destiny. "But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

[BUFFJEDI]

*******MY Opinion*******************

there is a God. The Most great and wonderful God you could ask for. He sent his son down to save us from our sins. Why Do I believe such? It's really hard to explain. When I was younger I always KNEW without a shadow of a doubt there was a GOD. Did I always do what was right, no did I try maybe sometimes. When I decided to give my life to God it is absolutely amazing the feeling that I got. I was litterly like I step out of an old Body into a new one. Now being that I am a Christian I stiil will SIN, point blank will sin, sin, sin. BUT i can tell you when I do, I know I do as to when I had NOT accepted Jesus christ as my savior.Being a christian does not mean you will be perfect.It means You will strive to serve God and do what is right in his eyes.NOt your eyes not the worlds eye but Gods eye's. ************NOTE WHAT I HAVE SEEN********* People do not want to believe in God. They think it is either a sign of weakness or they Do not want to give up there life style.I can assure you there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING on this earth that compares to the rewards of Heaven. It really makes me sad that there are those that refuse to believe in God. I know what there fate is and I would wish NOThing like that on anyone. Also Look at the earth, the stars the human body.How can anyone believe it was all an accident?? One thing I really find awesome about God is the way he answer's prayers. I have YET to have a prayer Not answered.Now my prayers were not answered the way I would have liked them to be BUT they were answered.God is awesome folks!!! I still struggle every day at being a Decent Christian. It's a very hard battle. You have so many groups agian you have satan using every means to hold you backand I have my earthly wants BUT it was the greatest thing I have ever done giving my self to God.I ask each and everyone of you to REALLY search your Hearts, Pick up a bible and read Think with your hearts.Put away your worldly thoughts give it a try.If anyone is really interested in Knowing more about God/Jesus private message me***********I'm So not even worthy to spread the Word Of GOD ********* I'm a pathetic sinner who will do wrong till the day I die, But I'm am trying and I'm more than willing to help other's try.


Now with all that said I personally do not condim those who do not and will not believe in God. I will love respect each and everyone the same, Just as my Lord and savior Does!!

[Gurney Devries]

A few things here. As a forewarning: Much of this is controversial in nature. Judging by the fact that this thread has gone on this long without any name-calling, I'm putting faith in everyone here that they're mature enough to discuss this without it developing into a flame-fest. Thanks.

I came across an interesting link a while back, in which the author attempted to debunk Creationism; Not through science, but simple logic. Now, he is in no way debunking religion or saying it's wrong - he's simply pointing out flaws in Creationism. Have a look, as it makes for an interesting read: http://www.geocities.com/evoatheism/articles/creat.html

Don't let the geocities addy fool you: it's quite well thought out and written.

I have several qualms with religion. One being that, by nature, I like being able to understand and comprehend as much as I can. Religion very often does not offer explanations for things, but instead requests that you rely on faith as an explanation. Sometimes, I try to rationalize things as best I can. For example: I think the idea of Adam and Eve is plausable. They wouldn't have looked anything like us, mind, since a few thousand years of in-breeding would have deformed our physical features and such. But I have seen scientifiic evidence that may support the notion that we all came from one single woman (Eve). Still, if I can't rationalize something in my mind, I don't believe in it.

Secondly: I know this does not apply to anyone here, but I cannot abide fanatics. No, I'm not talking about people like DT. ;) I mean people like those who run the website, godhatesfags.com. I could be mistaken, but I thought God loved each and every living thing on this Earth. The people from this website stage protests on college campuses, having little children hold up signs like "Fags are worthy of death". That just makes me sick. What kind of morals are you teaching your children?

Sorry for the rant, but I thought it should be included here.

[James Prent]

I don't have time to get into more, but people who proclaim that "God hates fags" and think that they're in the right will get a nasty surprise in the end.

God loves everyone. Does God love what everyone does? No. But there is a difference between loving the person, and agreeing with what they do.

[Sanis Prent]

Hate the sin, and not the sinner. Its a shame there are bigots who try to bend scripture to conform to their own sick worldviews. I have plenty of friends who are gay/lesbian/bisexual, etc. They know how I feel about it, but I don't harp about it, and I'm not going to not be their friend because of that. I've also got friends who abuse illegal drugs, or practice religions different from mine, or don't at all. Worst of all, I have friends who are Auburn fans. I don't hate these people. We all know how to agree to disagree. I'd like to find a way to have them reach an epiphany during the course of our friendships, but I'm not going to force the issue. Real change comes from within.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I always pray godhatesfags is a troll. Surely no one, even a "fanatic" :D like me thinks that.

Unfortunatly.... my prayer would be answered in the negative.

[Gurney Devries]

I would be inclined to believe it was, if I didn't hear first-hand accounts of people from that site protesting at colleges and such.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Unfortuntely people like that exist look at Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, etc. These so called men of god blamed the 9/11 tragedy on Gays, abortionist, and Liberals, I was waiting for the word Jews (I am sure they are anti-semites) but I think they were trying to be politically correct :rolleyes. I don't like fanatics either who think Harry Potter, LOTR and SW are all evil and part of Satan's tool or some crap like that. Or those burning books who are no better than the Nazis. They are a minority in this country, thank god or I would be living in Canada now.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You'd only find that there are the same kinds of people everywhere you go. And the only person you can really change is yourself.

[JonathanLB]

Nice discussion here.

I've gotten a few more e-mails from our friend the director here, haha. They are interesting. He is being respectful mostly, and I have been very fair in response to him I think, but I've not responded now in a few days as I've been very busy with watching movies and writing reviews, so just no time to write to him. I'll do that tomorrow night.

"You weren't destined to get hit by a bus, you just weren't watching where you were going."

LOL, right on EB. I agree with that totally.

I think we create our own destinies. Of course, I do agree with EB, there is not a rich or successful man on Earth who would say that chance or luck hasn't played some part in their success. My dad worked extremely hard throughout his life and when others were not willing to put in the extra hours, he was, but he still was dang lucky in many ways and he never forgets it. He still has this "Lucky $10 bill" he found on the street one day and I guess on that same day he proposed to my mom or something and closed some big business deal. Just a funny coincidence he should find $10 floating by too. I may not believe in "luck," as such, because I prefer to call it 'chance' for some reason, but it's essentially very similar.

I know what it's like to have bad "luck" for a long period of time, which is good I suppose, everyone should be tested at times and have to endure trials that help them sort out what is truly important from what is only seemingly important. I think my period of 20 dark months was probably best for me in the long run, even though I won't deny it still hurts how much went wrong, each day I come closer to getting over that entirely and I am better for it.

Chance and luck are very important... I worked just as hard during those 20 months for the most part as I did any other time, so why did things go so horribly? It's not explainable by simple means, it's just what happens -- chance.