who is Sipher Diaz?

[StarWarsFreakBoy]

he's the one that ordered the clones to be built in Episode 2 Correct? My question is who is he, how did he die and why did he order the clone army?

Thanks
Jimmy

[Jedieb]

It looks like he was a Jedi who was killedby Dooku and Sidious. Then one of them, probably Dooku, assumed his identity and ordered the clone army. There are a lot of different ways you could answer that, but I don't think there's been anything official yet.

[JMK]

I think there's much more to this. One of my new thoughts was that he was going to become Sidious' apprentice and was instructed to order the army. Meanwhile Sidious had Dooku hire a host for the clone army, then they would get rid of Sifa Dias leaving just the two of them. Something still tells me that Sifa Dias is still too close sounding to Sidious to be a coincidence. Why would Lucas make such an intricate puzzle, just to have people mix up similar sounding names? Apparently though, Sifa Dias was a real Jedi because Obi Wan knew about him. I hope this is something that Lucas handles well in Episode 3. :huh

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by JMK
Something still tells me that Sifa Dias is still too close sounding to Sidious to be a coincidence.

I was thinking the exact same thing JMK. At first I thought that maybe Sifo Dias was Sidious himself, and that he ordered the army. However, as you pointed out, it is clear that the Jedi council seems to know Sifo Dias, so it can't be Sidious himself. Something tells me that Sidious has to be mixed up in it somehow.

[JMK]

Well he's definetly mixed up in it. He knew the army was being built all along...

[darth_mcbain]

No doubt... I meant Sidious being mixed up in the whole Sifo-Dias thing. Of course Sidious knows of the army since he obviously puts it to his own use. I was just getting at that I don't think it was just coincidence that a Jedi Master just felt like creating a clone army on his own without informing the rest of the Jedi council, and that Sidious then took advantage of it. Sidious had to have orchestrated its creation in some way, and he likely used Sifo-Dias as one of his agents to do just that.

[Oriadin]

Dont forget too that the Jedi were not aware of this army. Sifo Dias did it behind thier backs which already implies some evil workings.

On the AOTC DVD Lucas says that the third film will reveal who it was that deleted Camino from the Jedi Archive memory. Perhaps that will reveal a lot of whats going on.

[Eldorack]

well, i think that Sidious is a very smart person. Because he was playing both sides. And both armies were created by his doing.

[Kyle_Katarn_pr]

I agree with JMK's theory that Sifa Diaz was a a Sidiou's Sith apretince and that he was latter killed when he became expendable

[Doc Milo]

I don't want be rude, but why assume that Sifo-Diyas had anything at all to do with the Clone army being commissioned?

Let's look at this logically.

Obi-Wan is told by Lama Su that Sifo-Dyas commissioned the Clone army. Is it possible that Lama Su was lied to and that someone else commissioned the Clone army and just used Sifo-Diyas' name? In fact, the information that Sifo-Diyas was a member of the Jedi Council is not confirmed. It comes from Lama Su, who might have been lied to on that count as well. Perhaps Sifo-Diyas is just a Jedi Master who has gained some renown among the Jedi -- maybe only for his mysterious death...

Obi-Wan mentions that Sifo-Diyas "was killed almost ten years ago" to Lama Su. "Was Killed" suggests more than merely dying, but actually murdered . . . or killed in the line of duty.

Obi-Wan says to Yoda and Mace that Sifo-Diyas supposedly commissioned the army "almost ten years ago" and that he was under the impression that Diyas died before then.

We are never told when Sifo-Diyas, specifically, supposedly ordered the army. But it's entirely possible that Obi-Wan is told that information, or discovers it, since he believes that Diyas' death occurred before then.

Now, look at the time frame of both events (Diyas' death, and the commissioning of a clone army.) What we know of both is that they both occurred "almost ten years ago." That places both events after (not before) the events of TPM.

If it is true that Sifo-Diyas was on the Council, then he had to have been selected to it after TPM, and died soon after.

I believe this: Obi-Wan discovers a specific date range that the clones were ordered, and he is under the impression that it Dyas died before the order was placed. Both events happen after the events of TPM, and Sifo-Dyas did not place the order. He was killed, however, by the person who did.

The files in the archive could only be erased by a Jedi.

Dooku was a Jedi.

Dooku, IMO, killed Sifo-Dyas, used his identity to order the clone army, and left the Jedi Order.

[Oriadin]

Thats a pretty good theory, and the times do match up. It was ten years ago when Palpatine was made Supreme Chanseler too so he couldnt have wasted much time it putting his plans into full swing.

[Jazmyn]

This thread piqued my curiousity so I went to the one source I like to refer to for things I wish to learn more about in the SW Universe. Here are the following posts I found on this. *Source: The Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia @ TheForce.Net*

_________________

Sifo-Dyas --

it was believed that this being - a Jedi Knight of small renown - placed the first order for the cloned soldiers developed by the Kaminoans. The order was placed around the time of the Battle of Naboo, directly to Lama Su himself, despite the fact that he was supposedly dead at that time. Master Sifo-Dyas hand-picked Jango Fett to serve as the genetic basis for the clone army, admiring his bounty hunting skills, discipline, and incredible attention to details.

_________________

Under the name of Dath Tyranus, the Count worked with Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas to recruit Jango Fett, on the moons of Bogden, to serve as the genetic basis for their clone army. Working as Darth Tyranus some ten years before the Battle of Geonosis, Dooku made contact with the Kaminoan people. It was inferred that Dooku worked for Sifo-Dyas in arranging for the creation of the clone troopers who would later serve in the Army of the Republic.

_______________

***************

One more interesting little tidbit I read was this:

_______________


...Through his use of the Dark Side, he gained a large body of knowledge on the use of clones to become virtually immortal. The fresh supply of new bodies ensured that the destructive power of the Dark Side never killed him. Early in his tenure as Emperor, Palpatine recognized the strength of Anakin Skywalker, and twisted the young Jedi to the Dark Side of the Force. The Emperor used Sith magics to recover Anakin's body, following a duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi, and revive it. The new spirit discarded its old name and became Darth Vader. Palpatine taught Vader in the ways of the Dark Side, but was always wary of the possibility that Vader might have had children.

_________________

From what I read of Sifo Dyas, it seems that he was in charge of or heading along side of Dooku, the Separatist movement. IF Sifo Dyas was in fact once a Jedi Master, (bear with me, I dont recall at this hour if its mentioned in EP2) then he probably was Dooku's Master (I -think- in the film Yoda refers to Sifo Dyas was his master as well).

One thing has kept me curious with all of this is being led to wonder just what it is that made these Jedi turn? Sure, we can all say things such as .. "the dark side is alluring and seductive with its promises of power" and all that stuff. But, these Jedi Masters have endured years of physical and mental training. I'd think that they were far stronger than to be swayed so easily; especially after being told repeatedly of the way the darkside works.

I'd like to know what events transpired to lead a Jedi master and his apprentice to forming a Separatist movement in the first place, what made them decide to create the clone army and what were the intentions of the Jedi Master's use of such an army?

The obvious answers are for war, of course. But I wonder if there weren't other underlying issues that we are not yet made privy to.

[JMK]

I don't recall hearing Yoda telling anyone that Sifa Dyas was his master, however he did say that Dooku was his padawan.

[Oriadin]

He said Dooku was the padawan of Yoda or Sifa Dyas?

[JMK]

Count Dooku was once Yoda's padawan, he says this during their duel in the hangar.

Hey, come to think of it, the duels in the prequels so far have taken place in a hangar. What gives?

[Jedi Master Carr]

yeah thats weird though the Duel of Fates ended up in the power core chamber or what ever it was called. I wonder if a Hanger will be involved in the next duel.

[JMK]

The rumor for years is that its going to happen in and around a volcano, but we'll see.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think he will fall into Lava or Acid and it doesn't have to be near a Volcano maybe some kind of factory.

[JMK]

I put alot of stock in the volcano theory because it's going to have to be a very poignant scene, visually speaking. In a volcanic setting, it would give the impression of "hell" and the birthplace of one of the most evil people ever.

[Doc Milo]

From what I read of Sifo Dyas, it seems that he was in charge of or heading along side of Dooku, the Separatist movement. IF Sifo Dyas was in fact once a Jedi Master, (bear with me, I dont recall at this hour if its mentioned in EP2) then he probably was Dooku's Master (I -think- in the film Yoda refers to Sifo Dyas was his master as well).

In reverse order:

1. Yoda referred to Dooku as his (Yoda's) old padawan.
2. That means that Yoda was Dooku's Master.
3. If Sifo-Dyas was "in charge" or "heading alongside" Dooku in the Separatist movement, why did he commission the army for the republic?

Obi-Wan: Did my master say who this clone army was for?
Lama Su: Of course. This army is for the Republic.

--AotC.

[Jazmyn]

Originally posted by Doc Milo
Obi-Wan: Did my master say who this clone army was for?
Lama Su: Of course. This army is for the Republic.

--AotC.


Yes. They say its for the Republic, but ... What if they lied? If the Jedi Master Sifo Dyas and Dooku were leading the Separatists, why wouldn't that army in fact, be for them? They'd need to amass a large military, in my opinion, in order for this whole Separatist thing to work. Seems to me-- once again this is only my opinion and Im open to reading everyone else's views and thoughts--that if the Separatists needed or wanted a large following or to spread their cause, they'd end up using force to do so. Thus, this army that these two created. Of course they aren't going to tell them "Oh yeah, this army is for us to use personally to spread our seeds of separatism around the universe." They'd be fools to give away such information.

In the event that the Jedi Council did happen upon the information of this army while it was being created, Jedi Master Sifo Dyas and Dooku certainly would look better in the Council's eyes by having all believe the army is in fact for the Republic. Not that the Council would have said "Oh ok, in that case this is all fine and dandy, proceed with the clone army." But, the Council would still have to take into consideration the uses of the army for the Republic, thereby keeping any suspicions that its uses for other matters are still kept secret. Which in turn, might have helped to keep Sifo Dyas and Dooku's intents hidden still.

I hope I just made sense in all that, I'm a bit distracted at the moment. If that didn't make any sense, I apologize now :lol

[Doc Milo]

Well, it just seems to me that the intent of the clone army was never for use by the Separatists. It was always intended to be used by the Republic. Palpatine/Sidious manipulated the entire thing. The Separatist movement was never intended to succeed. Dooku and Palpatine were in on this from the beginning. The purpose of the separatist movement was merely to have a crisis big enough to grant Palpatine emergency powers that he would use to do two things, (a) create an army of the Republic to counter the increasing threat of the separatists, and (b) use that army and the emergency powers to secure his own power and eventually declare himself Emperor.

I don't believe Dooku created the separatist movement for any ideological reason. Nor do I believe that Sifo-Dyas had anything to do with the comission of the Clone Army. I think Dooku and Palpatine were in on this all from the end of TPM, as soon as Dooku turned to the dark side and became the Sith apprentice.

The Separatist movement, the clone army, the Clone Wars, are all just tools Palpatine is using to set himself up as Emperor.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I still think its possible that he was one of his agents or a possible sith candiate but maybe Sidious thought Dooku was the better choice had him killed and used his name to order the clones. Unfortunely a lot of this might not make it to the films, I figure after Episode 3 or around that time we will get a book about Dooku that will explain some of this.

[JMK]

Doc's right.
The clone army is built for the sole purpose of destroying any other force that may oppose him. Dooku rounds up the other armies of the galaxy, rallies them against the Republic and marches them into hopeless defeat, leaving himself and Palpatine to rule alone, and with a huge invincible army to back them up.

[Admiral Lebron]

Sifo-Dyas according to Bounty Hunter is infact Dooku. But, George may contradict it.

[JMK]

Obi Wan asks Jango is he knows a Sifo Dias to which Jango replies that he has never heard of him, and that he was recruited by a Darth Tyranus. That doesn't mean that Sifo Dyas and Dooku are the same person.

[Master Aryalus]

My theory is as follows:

Remember in Star Wars Episode I how there were two Yoda creatures in the jedi council?

One of them was Yoda but was the others? Yoda's origins and species are unheard of so I refer to him as a 'Yoda' creature. I believe that the other yoda is Master Cypher-Dias.

It is said that he was killed in battle almost 10 years ago. This fits in well with the Ep1 - Ep2 time gap. And plus, in the seond movie, you never see the other Yoda creature again.

[JMK]

That other Yoda creature was a female named Yaddle. She was only 600 years old. Like Bea Arthur.

[Jamel Croko'yn]

I dont think this Sifa Dias has anything to do with Sidious, but his eyes were on the future, beyond his fellow councilers and he found that an army was needed in the times, thats one idea. Yet the other idea of hte Siditious does have a few explaination behind it. It's kinda hard to tell when you thoroughtly think about it, it was placed open-endedly, and your not completely sure of anything on this guy's past. You dont even know what race he is.

Count Dooku couldn't have done it under his name, it would be impossible, it seemed like the cloners have seen the man before in how they reacted the appereance of Obi-Wan.

[Doc Milo]

I never got the impression that the cloners had seen Sifo Dias before the clone army was comissioned. They would believe that whoever it was that told them he was Sifo Dias was Sifo Dias, and thus the "familiararity" you perceive would still be there....

[Thrane]

I agree with Doc's post on the 30th of Nov.
The clone army/clone wars were planned out by Palpatine years before TPM. In my opinion, of course!
As for Cypher Dias, my theory is that he was used by Palpatine to order the clone army. OK here we go...

During TPM, Palpatine is made Supreme Chancellor. The Chancellor was the head of the Republic, and as such he could "order" the Jedi. I believe that he ordered Cypher Dias to go to Kamino and order a clone army. I believe that Cypher Dias did this willingly, to obey the executive order of Chancellor Palpatine. Palpatine then killed him to keep him from talking about it or something. The point is that Palpatine kills him.

Another theory is that Palpatine uses the Dark Side of the Force to "persuade" Cypher Dias to order the army. He was VERY powerful in the Force, after all. Though whether or not he was powerful enough use the Force to persuade a Jedi to do something or not, I personally doubt. Especially a Jedi Master. Anywho, then Palpatine kills Dias or has Dooku kill him.

BTW, Dooku was NOT sent to Kamino, IMO. I believe his orders were to "recruit" Jango Fett. And then to wipe Kamino from the Jedi's archives on Coruscant.