Golf: Should Augusta allow chicks to join?

[Jedieb]

I don't think we've tackled this one here yet. Is Hootie a big old bigot? Is Marth Burke a wacked out feminist? What should Augusta do about female membership?

I'm usually the first to stand in line in a fight against discrimination. However, I don't think the situation is so cut and dry here. Augusta is after all, a PRIVATE club. If they depended on government funds then they'd be forced to allow women in. Augusta relies on nothing but private funds from its membership. They've even taken the step of turning away sponsors in defiance of Burke and others who are calling for female members. But shouldn't a private organization be allowed to choose its own members? Awhile back Augusta refused Bill Gates a membership. What were they discriiminating against there, a bad haircut? Does my old fraternity have to allow female members? I've always thought that gender was a bit different than race or religion.

I can see why women would argue that its not simply a gender issue. There's a lot of business going on behind Augusta's doors. Deals and connections are being made. Shouldn't women have the right to get their foot in the door? Isn't this another example of the glass ceiling? Would we stand for this kind of exclusion if blacks or Hispanics were denied membership bassed soley on their race?

Whatever the outcome, I don't think anybody really wins here. If women are allowed to be invited (membership is either by invitation or an honorary one given to Masters champions) then what have they really gained? A handful of rich southern women get to join an exclusive golf club? Is this worth all of the press coverage and discussion the issue has generated? For Hootie and Augusta, the longer they hold out, the more shots they take in the realm of public opinion. From what I know, Hootie Johnson is actually a progressive southerner who's taken a progressive stand on past civil rights issues. Now he and other members of Augusta are coming across as ignorant cave men.

So what do ya think, shoud they let the chicks in?:smokin

[ReaperFett]

No. It is a private club, and they can decide to let in who they want.


And as an aside, why is it over here that girls can join the Scouts, but boys cant join the female equivelent?

[jjwr]

It is quite odd, women fight and claw their way onto Mens teams(some baseball, football, etc) but you never hear about a guy playing on a womans softball team.

While I think its totally retraded that it is a mens only club they do have the right to keep it mens only if they wish. I'm curious if they didn't do a PGA Major there if this issue would have even been brought up.

[Figrin D'an]

I tend to agree with you, Jedieb. If Augusta National were a public institution, or funded by taxpayers, the matter would be a pretty open-and-shut case of discrimination. Augusta is a strictly private club, however. They can admit or deny entry to anyone they wish. The US Supreme Court has ruled on situations like this before, the most recent one involved the Boy Scouts and their refusal to allow a homosexual man, who was a former Scout, to be a leader. As discriminatory and misinformed as that policy might seem, the Scouts are a private, non-profit organization than can set their own membership standards. The Supreme Court recognized that and ruled in their favor.

The ironic thing is that Augusta and Hootie Johnson were going to revisit the idea of admitting their first woman member within the next year or so. Martha Burke really only served to hurt and delay her own cause by demanding that Augusta admit a woman immediately and calling Hootie and the membership committee sexist bigots.

Eventually, Augusta National will cross the gender line and allow female members. They want to do it on their terms however, which is, quite frankly, their right to do so. Yes, they are woefully behind the times, and there likely is a degree of bigotry that still exists amongst their members. But, as a private group, they can have whatever views and policies they want on membership.

[JMK]

and.....

*Sometimes* it's ok to have a boy's only club. Especially when its a private club.

[imported_QuiGonJ]

/agree. Women have any number of organizations and support groups without men, so I don't see why men can't ever have the same.

[BUFFJEDI]

HE11, no they should not be. Look I love woman(and MANY) as much as anyone else, but like some have said I can't join a WOMAN's club. I tried one to get a personal trainer's job a lady's fitness today and they sadi I could not work there due to being a man.Now the mgr said she sure would like for me to work under her, but she couldn't. The list goes on at what men are excluted from.SO if they let woman join they are fools!!!! Look at what they did at the citadel just plain WRONG!!! wrong, wrong.

[JMK]

I don't even use the "well guys can't join certain women's groups" argument. I think there's some validity to it, but it seems to me too "tit for tat".

I just really believe that some things are allowed to be for men only.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Still it wasn't long ago that they wouldn't allow Blacks as members, and it was Tiger Woods and others that threatened to boycott that made them change their minds, If Woods threatened it again there would be a Woman in there the second after he said those words, but so far he has not said a word. Finally its weird I live 25 minutes away from the Masters and they hardly say anything about the whole thing, they act like its nothing (which I guess it is.)

[Figrin D'an]

For the record, Augusta National admitted it's first African-American member in 1990, well before Tiger Woods was on the scene.


Yes, if Tiger Woods did make a definitive stand on the issue, and threaten to boycott the Masters, Augusta might admit a woman as a member. I just don't see him doing that, though. His sole focus right now is trying to break Jack Nicklaus record of 18 Major titles. That course is geared towards his game, so he'll be in the lead or close to it on Final Round Sunday just about every year. I'm not sure he would risk Augusta saying, "No" and then he being forced to boycott to uphold his word.

Another big question is simply, if Augusta were to relent to the pressure and admit a woman member, what women would really want to be that first member, given all of the negative feelings generated by this? Whomever that woman would be, she would need to be strong-willed and be willing to fight an uphill battle, as I'm sure that some of the other membership might make things hard for her.

[JMK]

Ok, I've never been discriminated against, but as an extension to what Figrin said; it's one thing to fight to be allowed access to someplace, but why bother if you will never be welcome in the place you're trying to get into. This isn't like african americans breaking into baseball. This is a freaking golf club.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ok I'm a woman, and you know what? I don't care if I can't play with the boys in a football team. Hey, I like living, if I participated with men in (olden days) 'mens ONLY' activites, I would probably be flattened. :D

Yes, gender roles are all mixed up. I tend towards the extreme conservative view of gender roles, but I don't think that women or men are unequal. Don't people realize the difference between unequal and simply DIFFERENT?

Private club = they can make their own rules. If I started a Women's only Club for needlepoint, and a man wanted to join, I wouldn't let him!

:lol Augusta sounds like G.R.O.S.S. though ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I thought that was after Tiger started playing maybe I am thinking of another golf club I remember him saying he would go to some tournment for some reason I thought it was the Masters, it shows how much I follow golf :p

[Quadinaros]

To clear up the Tiger issue, he has never threatened to boycott Augusta for any reason. Everybody knows Augusta has a very elitist past, but they have changed alot in the past 20-30 years, and Tiger has commended the club and Hootie Johnson on several occasions.

As stated earlier, he hasn't spoken out on this issue, but other players have. Unfortunately, some, such as John Daly, have tried to put a spotlight on Tiger where there should be none. He made a comment to the effect of "If Tiger would take a stand on this issue, most of the other players would rally behind him, but he's the only one who can make it happen." This issue has nothing to do with Tiger Woods, and I hope he continues to distance himself from it.

I don't really remember Tiger talking of boycotting any tournaments, but it may have happened. The fact is all the tournaments beg Tiger to play, and he has to turn half of them down.

He's God when it comes to golf.

Check it out, I didn't even address the topic...

[Jedieb]

Don't people realize the difference between unequal and simply DIFFERENT?
Damn straight! :D

One of the only plausible arguments that I can see on behalf of those that are demanding that Augusta be opened to women concerns the Masters. This is a major tournament that represents all of golf and in a sense, all those who play. So the place that hosts it should be open to all. But there are holes in that argument. First of all, the damn club isn't open to all. It's a private club that requires a bank account the size of the GNP of Ecuador. It's an invitation ONLY club. If you're not invited to become a member, you can't join, end of story. Augusta isn't making social or governmental policy, they should have some degree of privacy in this matter.

Now as for Burke, this isn't all her fault. From what I understand, she started this with a PRIVATE letter to Hootie. Johnson dropped the ball by making the letter public and having press conferences. If he'd responded to Burke with another letter this whole thing might have been avoided. But now, the lines in the sand have been drawn. I really don't think Hootie is the pig some are making him out to be. I just think he and some other members are put out by the idea of someone telling them who they should allow in their PRIVATE club.

Augusta will have a rich, southern, female memeber within 3 years. Then all will be right with women and the world. I can't wait until that day. It'll be nice that my wife will finally start making the same pay that her third legged counterparts are making. This is going to take care of everything. :rolleyes

[CMJ]

You know what G.O.L.F. stands for? When it was originally invented the sport was given that acronym, it stands for...

Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden.

And no I did not make that up.

[Jedieb]

That acronym and a six pack at the turn could make golf the greatest sport in the history of mankind!:crack

[CMJ]

:lol

Good one Jedieb! Obviously Golf doesn't mean that anymore, but that is what it stood for, like 130 years ago(or however long it was).

[Lilaena De'Ville]

G.O.L.F.?

I told you it sounded suspiciously like G.R.O.S.S. , Calvin and Hobbes' club. :lol

And I know the secret of hopscotch, so its all good. :D

[ReaperFett]

And when they leave, we all apepar, wondering what went on here :)

[JMK]

:lol That's funny.

[Sanis Prent]

Blackness confirmed. You got soul, brotha.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:D