10 Second review - FOTR:EE

[Marcus Telcontar]

If your not a fan or a collector, dont bother.

If your a DVD collector, this is so far the best DVD in features availible. Worth it for that fact alone. Probably is the best DVD in quality and quantity.

If your a fan..... your in for one hell of an experience. I'd agree the theatrical version was right for theatres, the extra 30 minutes were losable. Sort of. No they weren't thinking about it - they fit really well and expand the story a lot. But who the hell is going to sit thorugh 3.5 hourrs in a theatre??

Got my preorder today of the 5 disc set. Still exploring the features in discs 3 and four... it's feature overload. Havent even touched disc five and I wont be doing that for a day or two. One thing I have noted is that the video seems better than from the first DVD. Odd that. maybe they re-rendered?

Well anyway, here is now proof positive WETA can match and even exceed ILM/Lucasarts in production quality. Damn it, when is TTT released? Cant get here fast enough!

[Loki Ahmrah]

I hate you. :grumble

I wont be able to get this box set until Friday. To be honest though, I'm more looking forward to going to see "Chamber of Secrets" again. :crack

[Master Yoghurt]

I got the 4 Disk Extended edition today. Not opened it yet... will do so in a few minutes :)

[Dae Jinn]

:grumbles at all of you....glad you like though Marcus :)

[JMK]

I'll have mine tomorrow. I've been dying to watch it ever since I finished the books. I could have watched the theatrical one, but decided to wait for the SE.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I probably won't be able to pick it up until Friday, I am getting AOTC tomorrow but I do want to get this one too, I tell you its a conspiracy to bankrupt us :p

[ReaperFett]

Well anyway, here is now proof positive WETA can match and even exceed ILM/Lucasarts in production quality
I think it says more about Jackson than WETA

[Sejah Haversh]

Why is it NOT SuperBit?! It should be! For that price, that movie really should have been rendered in SuperBit!

[JMK]

Differences in Superbit are almost not noticeable on regular RPTV's. If you have and HDTV then it's worth it. And if you do have an HDTV....I hate you. ;)

[Sejah Haversh]

Well, no HDTV for me, but, I do have super-nice computer monitor, and Superbit looks a lot better on it.

Watched the differences in Air Force One and CTHD, as well. It was huge. I really hope they release yet another edition of FotR that is in Superbit.

[Darth Viscera]

I'm going to trudge through the rain showers tomorrow morning to get to my local Blockbuster and pick up my widescreen AOTC DVD (of which 30 copies are available), and my FOTR EC (of which 2 copies are available). they're both released on the 12th in the U.S.

As for Superbit....you fools! :shootin :mneh :headache :spank

I'm afraid you've been fooled by a lable and a bit of hype. There is *no* "Superbit process". A Superbit DVD is, supposedly, when you strip out all the extras from a DVD, safe for the basic menu and scene selections, a 2ch Dolby Surround track, a 6ch Dolby Digital track, and a DTS audio track. You then calculate the video bitrate so that you'll use the maximum capacity of the dual-layer DVD, which is ~8.5GB. I say "supposedly" because all too often I've received "Superbit" DVDs which only used 5.6 gigs of the total 8.5 gig capacity.

More video bitrate=better movie quality.

(For some reason, most of the DVD encoding houses are lame, and will put say 4.8 gigs on a 8.5 gig disc. They don't seem to realize that they can encode the video at a higher bitrate and actually fill up the disc. Superbit came along and said "Hey, they're stupid, we're not. We'll fill up the discs, trademark the process of not being a complete idiot, and make a killing!". Superbit must have then hired up all the lamers they could find in the industry, because they then ignored their own hype and never started filling up their discs.)

Now, I hope I've enlightened you a bit. FOTR EC, being on 2 DVDs, has ~17 gigs of available space. Taking into account all the audio tracks, if FOTR EC uses up the total disc space available to it, then the video bitrate will be ~7.64 Mbit/sec. That is more HD DVD bitrate than DVD bitrate, as the DVD max bitrate is 9.80Mbps and the high avg gives the video less breathing space. The original LOTR DVD was ~5.2 Mbit/sec for the video, which means that the new DVD should be 50% higher quality. FOTR 1 DVD took up 7900 megs out of the ~8600 MB capacity of a DVD-9, which is extroardinarily good disc efficiency compared to other DVDs.

Incidentally, Superbit promises 7.5 Mbit/sec video over what it claims is 5.0 Mbit/sec for a normal DVD. There is no designated average bitrate for a DVD, of course-you're supposed to cram it all into a whole DVD-5 or a DVD-9, so long as you don't exceed 9.8 Mbit/sec.

Which means that FOTR EC likely has a higher bitrate than a Superbit DVD. Really, don't worry about Superbit. It's all a hoax designed to fool people who aren't familiar with the MPEG-LA's DVD specifications into thinking you're buying a superior product.

[JMK]

Yeah, but eventually the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and although the movie should be 50% better, it won't appear to be 50% better. Infact most wouldn't even notice the differences.

And BTW, I've never bought a Superbit DVD because I find them a waste.

[Darth Viscera]

It's a lot more detailed, though. You can pick apart details of Gimli's dwarven armor.

[Master Yoghurt]

:: pets DVD ::

My preccccioussssssss

[Darth Viscera]

*Sneaks up to Yog, ala Smeagol and Deagol pg. 58 FOTR*

Give us that, my love. It's my birthday, and I wants it.

[Darth Viscera]

Huh, I just noticed something. In the FOTR movie, Gandalf decides to go the wrong way. He picks the passage that heads downwards, saying that it doesn't smell so foul there. In the book, the downward passage smells foul and seems too easy (I think), the straight passage smells foul, and so Gandalf takes the passage that goes up, because it doesn't smell foul.

BTW, the DTS ES 6.1 audio is absolutely terrifying when you hear the shreak of a Nazgul or the growl of an Orc.

[JMK]

God bless DTS! :D

[Darth Viscera]

Yeah, it's awesome. Dolby Digital is too "dynamic" (which means hardly audible IMHO). Maybe it's the fact that DTS uses 2x-4x more bitrate, but it's nice and loud, realistic, and immersive.

[Nupraptor]

I'm watching the Extended Edition now. A few quick comments about the differences I've seen so far (consider these spoilers, if you don't want to know):

The scene with Isildur at the beginning: I liked the fact that they added it back in, as it made the line "It betrayed Isildur... to his death" make more sense. Before, we just saw a corpse, with no real explanation of how it betrayed him.

I liked the new intro with Bilbo. A lot. The lighting was excellent and it really set the mood well. The description of Hobbits was unnecessary, but still nice. It almost felt like I was reading the book again.

Frodo and Gandalf's conversation took just a wee bit too long. Also, it lost a bit of its light-heartedness from the theatrical version.

I liked the scene with Merry and Pippin dancing and singing. It was very jovial. Plus, you got a better look at some of the other hobbits and their opinions of Bilbo.

I sort of liked the scene with the Wood Elves' passing. What I didn't like about it was Sam's line, "I don't know why, but it makes me sad." It felt too rushed, and was really unnecessary: They could have expressed that just by the look on his face.

The scene with Boromir and Gandalf at the Council of Elrond was excellent! Definitely one that should have been in the theatrical showing.

They talked about the re-forging of Narsil! Yes! I was stunned that they never so much as mentioned this before. One minute, the sword's broken. The next, Aragorn is swinging it around in battle. Also, there's more character development between Elrond and Aragorn, which I think will set things up nicely for TTT.

The Fellowship departing: Another excellent scene. We can see how difficult this seperation is for Aragorn and Arwen. Frodo's bit at the end was neat, too.

The next couple of scenes after that weren't very stand-out, but I liked them because they followed the book very closely.

The entire Lothlorien scene is much, much, much better. There's a more defined atmosphere in each of the scenes, and you get to see a larger amount of this beautiful Elven haven. Sam's poetry I could have done without, though.

Overall, I'm very pleased. I'd heard from a few people that most of the new scenes weren't very good, and should have been left out. With the exception of the ones I noted above, I enjoyed each of the additions and extensions very much. Most of them made the movie feel much more true to the original text. Scene transitions flowed much better. I waited quite a while to get my hands on this puppy and I'm certainly not disappointed. :)

[JMK]

The only problem I have with DTS is that the LFE isn't as strong as the Dolby Digital track. Otherwise DTS rules the universe. The finer details in sound come through much more than Dolby, which IMO is always more aggressive and in your face.


I like most of the additions, especially the elongated shot of Legolas shooting down orcs and the end. In the theatrical version he only takes out 3 while on this one its 6 or 7.

[Nupraptor]

There's lots of little additions and changes. Some scenes have slightly different music or the actors say their lines slightly differently. There are also a couple of lines of dialogue, inserted here and there.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I really noticed so many little additions - an added frame here, a longer pause or look there. Little editing touches are absolutly everywhere, not a scence is the same - well seems that way. SOme thigns are just so subtle, you would have to intimatly familiar with the theatrical version to notice.

I loved the new Lothlorien scences, just totally changes the flow and feel. Gimli cussing out Haldir is a classic :). Oh and Gandalf in front of Moria, straight out of the books. In the Green Dragon was funny as, but you know what I found to be the most worthwhile bits? Mainly to do with Aragorn. When he is talking to Frodo about Luthien, when Frodo asks what happened to her and he says... "She died"... that left a sinking feeling in my gut. Luthien being an Elf who loved a man like Arwen loved Aragorn. The emotion on his face.... and Elrond's Council, that changed the moive totally. Excellent.

Sound is excellent and I definantly noted the picture improvement between DVD versions. Now I have had time to sit back and think, I would say the only people who would not liek this DVD are ones who did not like the original theatrical.

I would aslo say the second DVD of the moive is the big, big payoff. Almost dare to say dramatically better? The perfect DVD set? Could be. It's a must have for anyone serious or even casual about LOTR. For all it's extras and quality, packaging and attention to detail, ease of use.... it can only be rated 10 out of 10 as a DVD set, not counting the movie itself. The movie, well... that showed it was possible to improve what should have been last year's best movie Oscar winner. And in some cases, quite a bit. Amazing feat.

One more note - the Argonath bookends are wonderfully made. Nice n heavy, amazing details.

[JMK]

I liked the sequences you mentioned too Marcus.
As for people liking it better, I think a good number of casual fans might skip straight to the second disc as that's where all the action starts. But I loved the scene where the Fellowship is leaving Rivendell
"Gandalf is Mordor left or right?"
"Left"
:lol

[Nupraptor]

Something I just noticed: Contrary to what I thought earlier, Aragorn is not using Anduril at the end of FotR.

Compare the hilts of the swords:

http://www.swordarmory.com/lotr/uc1267b.jpg

http://216.73.105.30/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=429455

Now, unless my memory is failing me, Aragorn did have the sword reforged during FotR. So if that's not Anduril he's wielding at the end... when, if at all, is he going to have it reforged. :huh

[ReaperFett]

Anduril? That the one Boromir was looking at in the THeatrical cut?

[Nupraptor]

That's Narsil. After Aragorn reforges the sword, he names it Anduril.

[ReaperFett]

Ahhh

[Marcus Telcontar]

Nup, who knows. I'd love to know when the sword gets reforged too.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

It was supposed to be reforged at the time of the Council. He pulls it out and everyone goes.. "Ooooohhh...."

[Marcus Telcontar]

Supposed to be. But where is it done in the movies?When does he get Andruil?

[JediBoricua]

Well Elrond says to Arargorn when he is visiting his mother's tomb that the art of the elves can reforge the sword, but only his power cand weild it. You could argue that Elrond was saying that the sword has been reforged and it is simply waiting for him to act.

Or maybe when the Dunedain come to his aid in Rohan (if they come, I have not read the script), they could say they stopped at Rivendell and brought the sword to Aragorn, King of Gondor!

[Nupraptor]

JB: Yeah, that's why I mentioned it in my mini-review up there. But, by the books, Aragorn should be wielding it by the time they leave Rivendale, IIRC.

[JMK]

Why did he rename the sword anyway?

[JediBoricua]

True, but in the movie he will only need it when he reveals himself to Saurron, so he does not need to get it all dirty with goblins and orcs just yet :)


About the EE. I'm going to do a Neo here: WHOA!

I have yet to see the extras, except the Natl. Geo. Doc., the price is totally worth it! The added and extended scenes are awesome, and let me say that Jackson should have gotten the editing oscar. It must have been very hard to cut those scenes (considering how good they are), but he did it in such a way that the people in the theater would not get disgruntled or lost. This version is much slower than the first, but I really don't mind. In fact I think I will sell my teatrical release, I'm loving this version too much. The detail is enormous, and it makes the movie feel like the book a whole lot.

My favorite added scene has to be the introduction of the hobbits, I was smiling like a 5 year old going to Walt Disney for the first time. I must agree with Marcus, Aragorn gets the better part of the new scenes for his character is developed further and the audience now sees him as another main character, not as Frodo's bodyguard like my mom used to name him.

Now if only December 18 could get here faster...

[Jedi Master Carr]

I picked it up Friday and watched it over the Weekend, first off its a very cool DVD have to say that, now on to extended scenes, my favs are one the gifts, I liked the way Gimil acted to Glandria, also I liked the mourning of Gandalf scene, I wish that would have been left in, it showed more how Gandalf had touched their lives and it also didn't make it look like Gandalf died, they cried and ran off and forgot about him. Next the scene on the river I liked them showing Gollum following them again that was neat, I also liked the scene between Boromir and Aargon it showed the tension rising. Finally the extended battle scenes they were great especially Legolas shooting more arrows that was very cool.

[Sejah Haversh]

Was I the only one who noticed that the Cave Troll fight scene was extended? And so was the Uruk-hai fight as well.

Overall, it gets an excellent rating from me. And the bookends are sweet, too bad I don't have a use for them yet, all my books fit perfectly on my shelves...

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
Something I just noticed: Contrary to what I thought earlier, Aragorn is not using Anduril at the end of FotR.

Now, unless my memory is failing me, Aragorn did have the sword reforged during FotR. So if that's not Anduril he's wielding at the end... when, if at all, is he going to have it reforged. :huh If my memory serves me correctly, I don't think he weilds the sword until the Return of the King, when he arrives at the battle at Gondor.

[JMK]

I wonder where he keeps it then? If he leaves Rivendell with it, where does he put it, and why not use it?
If he doens't leave Rivendell with it, how does he get it? Does one of the Rivendell Elves show up and give it to him?

[TheHolo.Net]

I think Arwen brings it to him, when they meet up after his journey through the dead forest (or whatever it was called). It may have even been Elrond himself. I think Elrond was with Aragorn when he arrives at the battle at Gondor.

[Taylor Millard]

No he had it in Two Towers...or I think he does. i remember Aragorn saying, "Stare upon the sword once broken now reforged!" or something like that.

I'm reading TTT right now so I'll go double check

[JediBoricua]

Yes he had it at TTT. He dresses like a king and uses the palantir to reveal himself to Saurron as the King of Gondor. I think Taylor got the quote right.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I know he has it in RotK, because he leads the armies of the Dead with it. It may be confusing because in both books he sets out from Eowyn, and both times she asks him not to go...or to take her with him.... From Rohan he goes, I believe, unless I'm totally mistaken. I probably am, usually am.

[Nupraptor]

I could have sworn that he used the sword once it got reforged. But, as I said, it's really been a while for me.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I thought he did too...But, now that I think about it, maybe he just had the broken bits on him when he first met the Hobbits...and then had it reforged in Rivendell, where he showed it reforged to the Council....I can't remember whether he used it or not.

[Marcus Telcontar]

In the books, he has Andruil as he leaves Rivendell. The sword is reforged after the COuncil of Elrond and is used in the Mines of Moria to begin with.

Page 269 is the reforging and the renaming.

Page 291 it is used against Wargs before the Company reach Moria

Edit : And yes, Sith-Lady is mainly correct. He caried the shards and from memory he never carries or uses any other sword. She isnt correct about it being reforged before the Council, it is done after. He throws the shards on the table.

Oh dear, I am a truly sad and pathetic Tolkien geek :x

[Nupraptor]

Oh yeah! I remember, now that you mention it: He actually didn't use another sword at all. I remember him lifting the sword part-way out of the sheath, to intimidate someone. Then, later on, he pulled it all the way out to show the hobits that it wasn't a full sword. Or something like that.