Barrv vs Emmitt

[jjwr]

I'm sure some of you will have no clue but those who do know will know automatically what this is about.

I'm really curious what you guys think about this debate? Right off the bat I want to say that I'm not bashing Emmitt, I try and discuss this with a Dallas fan in the office and he can't quite seem to get that :)

Emmitt is a incredible back, his toughness has grown to legendary status and he just keeps pounding away, the all time carries record shows that. Both are obviously different types of backs, Barry is very shifty while Emmitt goes straight ahead.

Now onto the record, Emmitt definetly earned it, he put in the carries and years to get there. What I'm curious of is if anyone doubts that this record was Barry's had he wanted it. He had roughly 15,300 yards when he retired, about 1,500 away from the record. Oddly enough he was averaging a tad over 1,500 per year in his career. Had he played these past three years and say he went 1,500, 1,300, 1,100 the past 3 years he would be sitting at 19,200 yards vs what Emmitt has now of 16,800ish. There would be no doubt that Barry would hold the record for a long time. If he had kept playing.

Personally I like Barry better, the guy was a blast to watch and he had the underdog quality as for the longest time the Lions were just a awefull team. What pissess me off is the year he got the Co-MVP with Favre, he rushed for 2,000yards and literally carried his team to the playoffs and only got Co-MVP.

One thing I always wonder is what would have happened had Barry had a line like Emmitt. Regardless of his line Emmitt would have put up great numbers, maybe not as good if he had played for a different team but I think he'd still have topped 12,000 yards, he's just too good not to have. I think you could have seriously seen Barry hit 2,000 2 or 3 times in his career behind that line, open a huge hole for him and he's in the secondary and from there its all classic Barry. It would have been scarry. I don't think he had the toughness of Emmitt but he also played a different kind of game.

Anyway theres really no point to all this, they're both great backs, I personally like Barry more. Emmitt is great but had more luck in his career placement then Barry had.

What I would like to have imagined is cheering on Barry this year as he approached his 20,000th rushing yard.

With all that said I think Marshall Faulk will pose a serious threat to the record, he's still about 7,000 yards short but will gain about 500+ yards on it this year and if he can stay injury free will have a good shot. After him..tough call, Tomlinson and James are putting up great numbers early but its a bit too early to tell.

[jjwr]

Just wanna add, Kudo's to Emmitt, definetly a impressive record to break and as a person he's top notch, a class guy. That and his commercials with Alf are funny :)

[Taylor Millard]

I disagree.

If Sanders had stuck with it, he would have broken the record a few years ago. But he didn't stick with it and now Emmitt has the record and not Barry. And I thought he (Barry) was a good football player too.

Whose better? Michael Irvin made the point, "Whose got the record?"

And that is a good point. Who does have the record? Emmitt Smith.

Remember, Emmitt has been on some bad, bad Cowboy teams (last year, year before last, year before that, this year). And he's been on some good ones (Most of the 90s). Smith doesn't have the line he used to have, but it's his persistance to me which is what did it for me.

Whose better? I put Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith all in the same category.

Just plain great.

[Jedi Master Carr]

If Sanders had wanted it, he would have it now, though I think the record had nothing to do with his retirement. I think he got tired of playing (playing for a bad team sure didn't help) . I also liked Barry better but that is just a personal thing, I also found Sanders amazing how he could escape tackles and make long runs. As for who can challenge the record well two names come to mind Faulk, who isn't far away and Priest Holmes if he keeps playing like he has the last two season (and doesn't get hurt) sure has a chance, heck if he keeps scoring TDs like he has that record will fall fast.

[Sene Unty]

I have always thought that Barry was the better back, but Emmit is the best because he has got the record....its just that simple.....that record is one of the hadest to get in all professional sports, not just football. To be able to get the numbers he got it had to be more than just a good line (though that didn't hurt). Actually you do bring up some good points, what if Barry would have had a better line? The results would have been astounding to say the least!

[jjwr]

Again I'm not bashing Emmitt but theres a great article on CNNSI by Peter King, he talks a bit about Emmitt, he admits he's a great player and its a great accomplishment but also notes that he has been lucky in his career, he had a coach that liked to run, a group of bulldozers for a line and a lot of big leads where he could run to seal the game which translated to a lot of extra yards.

Of course its not Emmitts fault that he ended up in that situation, he took advantage of it to become one of the best backs in history.

Does the record make him the best? Not really. Barry could have had the record if he wanted it but he didn't want it. Barry is a lot like the former Vikings RB that retired a few years back, great runner but he felt it was time to retire and was sick of the game. Barry had all the tools to take the record, heck he probably would have taken it the next year had he played and put the record out of reach of Emmitt.

While the record is impressive the only reason that Emmitt has it is because Barry has retired. Thats no knock against Emmitt but even going by subpar 1,000 yard seasons for Barry he would have the record near 19,000 yards and I really doubt Emmitt has enough left to hit that mark.

[Figrin D'an]

Ah, the "best" running back debate... never gets old, does it?


First off... I'm happy for Emmitt Smith. He earned the record. He's been a class act his entire career, and despite the downfall of the Cowboys in recent years, he's been a consumate team player, even though everyone knew he was approaching Payton's record. He could have ditched Dallas and gone to a more competitive team a few years ago, but he stuck it out because he wanted to help in the rebuilding process. Kudos to Emmitt for putting the team ahead of personal achievement. I'm not a Cowboy fan (I actually learned to despise them in the '90's when they seemed to beat the Packers every year in the playoffs), but I have a lot of respect for Smith and what he as done. :)


Much like Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith becoming the league's all-time leading rusher is a testament to his durability and his heart. Neither was(is) a physical marvel... both were(are) fairly short and rather small by RB standards, neither had(has) blazing speed... but they both had determination and a great work ethic. So, if by greatest, you mean "hardest working and greatest sheer will," then you would have to put Payton and Smith as probably #1 and #1a, in no particular order.


Barry Sanders was a freak of nature. The guy was insanely strong for his small stature, he was one of the fastest guys in the NFL (he, Darrell Green and Don Beebe were all really close on the "Fastest Player" rankings), and he made moves and cuts that would break most players' ankles. The amazing thing is that he amassed his 15,300 yards in only 10 seasons. That's a faster pace than either Jim Brown or Gale Sayers. Even more amazing is that he got better every year... his 2000 yard season was at the END of his career, not the beginning. If he had continued to play, he would have put the rushing record out of reach. Like jjwr said, Barry likely would have topped 20,000 yards this year, and he still would have a good 4-5 seasons left in him. He could have retired with close to 27,000 yards in his career, making the next closest person, Smith, at least 9,000 yards behind. That is a simply jaw-dropping prospect.


Then, of course, there is Jim Brown. 12,312 yards in 9 seasons (shorter seasons when he played too... have to remember that). He retired when he was 30. He was durable, strong-willed, hard-nosed, big, strong, fast... he defined the prototype of the ideal NFL running back. If he had played another 7 seasons, imagine the numbers he could have put up... he might STILL be the league's rushing leader at this moment if that were the case, despite the amazing stats of guys like Payton, Sanders and Smith.


It's impossible to pick one guy as the greatest ever. Emmitt now has the record, which some will say is the trump card of the whole argument. But he also had a great offensive line for many years, one of the best fullbacks around (Daryl Johnston) blocking for him, and a QB (Troy Aikman) that could make plays to open up the running game. Barry Sanders had a pretty good line in front of him, but very little else to compliment him in Detroit. He was THE guy on offense, and even then, no one could stop him. Very much the same with Jim Brown. He carried Cleveland when he played there, even though everyone tried to game-plan to stop him. Erik Dickerson put up great numbers despite that he played for four different teams using different offensive systems. So... the title of "greatest" very much depends on your criteria.

[BUFFJEDI]

1.Payton
2.Barry
3.emmitt
4.dorsett (sp)
5.John Riggins(all though he played for the skins :(

that's the greatest running back list.Now keep in mind I'm a cowboy fan, but like many have said Barry would have had the record about 2 years ago, but he doesn't , but he could have.

Now as far as better player EMMITT is twice the player Barry was. Barry ran nothing else. Emmitt blocked, ran, recieved and was a positive role model for other players, like I sadi barry just ran.

Best allround running backs.

1. payton
2.Emmitt
3.Dorsett
4.John Riggins
5.Marcus allen



But herschel walker could have been the best:(


I just think having the Record Does not make you the best.Look lots call Montana the greatest QB due to the superbowls, but he is nothing compared to Marino.Jordan has more Rings and points than BiRD but Bird is twice the player Jordan ever will be (all around.

It took AARON 1,000 plus times at bat to pass Ruth, does that make him better?
BUT I hate sports anyway so I'll shut up:D

[Figrin D'an]

Here's another name for people think about from a talent perspective... Bo Jackson.

Very short career because of injury, like Gale Sayers, but he might have been the most physically gifted RB since Jim Brown. He had it all.... size, strength, speed... he could run, catch, block, and even throw... he was the most potent offensive weapon in the league over a 4 year span... now, of course, he's not on the list of the best for obvious reasons... but talent-wise, he was a phenom...

[JMK]

This is just going to be the conversation of the NFL year, even more than the dreadful Rams!
There's no doubt that the record would have belonged to Sanders had he continued and remained healthy. But I think that says volumes about Smith. IMO, longevity and heart mean as much as talent. You need all 3 to be great, and Emmitt has all 3 and then some. This is very reminiscent of the great hockey debate (which I doubt many here follow that intensely) but it all about Gretzky vs Lemieux and who is the best of all time. The numbers say Gretzky -- by a landslide, but Mario had terrible injuries, cancer and a relatively bad team, except for the early 90's. The Oilers were a great team for over a decade, with prolific scorers up and down the lineup. Yet, this debate probably won't be decided ever either. If Mario had been healthy, he'd probably be up there with Gretzky right now. But he's over 1000 points behind.


Anyway, back to football, Smith showed the dedication and drive to succeed, and he has. To me, that counts for alot more than just raw talent. Hey, Randy Moss has raw talent, but regardless of what he accomplishes, he will never be Jerry Rice.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Really though the record shouldn't matter both Smith and Sanders were two of the greatest running backs ever regardless of numbers much like Montana and Marino are two of the greatest QBS (Montana has the Rings, Marino has the stats).

[jjwr]

One amusing note


Now as far as better player EMMITT is twice the player Barry was. Barry ran nothing else. Emmitt blocked, ran, recieved and was a positive role model for other players, like I sadi barry just ran.

Have a Lions and a Cowboys fan at work, this came up. The Cowboys fan though Emmitt blew Barry away. We looked up the stats and Barry had more receptions and more yards receiving than Emmitt had.

Yes Emmitt did stick it out for the record, but what does that say about Barry? He knew he had the record but he didn't want it. Emmitt stuck around to try and get it and is more or less a shell of what he used to be and the team would be better off building towards the future. Now I understand where he's coming from going for the record but is it better to stick around forever to get a record or leave while still on top of the game knowing you could have had it.

Theres a great article up on ESPN Page 2 about Emmitt and the record. Basically says just because he has the record doesn't mean he's the best. He's obviously a incredible back but it brings up great examples. Marino has over 60,000 yards but is he the best QB Ever? Titanic has over 600 Million but is it the best movie ever?

I think the Emmitt/Barry debate will go on for a while, the top two backs of the 90's, each won 4 rushing titles during the 8 years that Barry played in the 90's. Emmitt had more to work with and he benefited, Barry took what he could and left his mark on the game regardless of the records or rings.

Bo....man that guy was impressive, it really is too bad he was cut short by injuries. Same with Terrell Davis. I think Terrell would have taken the record had his knee's not broken down.

[BUFFJEDI]

Have a Lions and a Cowboys fan at work, this came up. The Cowboys fan though Emmitt blew Barry away. We looked up the stats and Barry had more receptions and more yards receiving than Emmitt had Really???:o

[Jedi Master Carr]

This is an intresting debate, and I don't think there is a real answer, I agree about Davis had his knees not fallen apart he would have challenged that record. That is what I wonder about Holmes, he is 29, and has 4500 yards right now, he will probably pass 10,000 by the end of his career not sure if he can make to Smith's numbers. He could set the TD record this year he has 15 at the moment.

[JMK]

I don't think Holmes has a real shot. To break this record, its going to take someone with as much talent, grit, heart and desire as Smith, if not more. With the way the NFL is set up now salary wise, it would be hard to keep a dominating team together the way the Cowboys were able to keep together for so long. Teams nowadays are blown up every few years and rebuilt. The Cowboys were dominant for like 7 seasons. That's alot of time to rack up mass yardage.

[dbn]

I do understand your question, and I would like to quote Emmitt Smith: "I'm very confident I'm one of the best to ever play the game, but once you talk about the greatest, how can you define greatest?''

I am a big Dallas Fan, and LOVE Emmitt Smith. I believe Berry could have destoried Pytons record a few years ago, if he stilled played. For some reason, Berry walked away from the game. Emmitt still plays on, and will for a few more years. To me that says something about both men!

As far Emmitt is no Jerry Rice, well Jerry Rice is no Emmitt Smith! Both players are one the best to ever play their part in the game.

All I can say, there is going to be a lot of ifs, ands, or buts for someone to break this rushing record anytime soon.

[jjwr]

Exactly DBN, this record could stand for a while. There are tons of great backs out there but to get the record a lot of things have to fall in place. A big factor is luck. Getting on the right team, that stays good for a while as JMK Mentioned and to avoid any major injuries. Both Emmitt and Barry avoided the big injuries that would keep them from running.

Of the current crop of Backs in the 29 or so range I think Faulk or Martin has the best shot. Martin is putting up numbers like Emmitt did, consistent 1,300+ yard seasons just about every year and he hasn't really been injured yet. He could keep chugging it out.

Faulk, he would need a number of good years to get there but its possible. The way he's going with about 2,000 yards of total offense a year I could see him getting the total yardage record before he's done.

Two young guys come to mind, Tomlinson and James. James before the injury last season was pulling out 1,500+ yards. With Payton as QB it really opens things up for him and he could have a shot if he gets it back on track. Tomlinson is very good and playing on a very young and talented offense, over the next 5 or so years he could put up huge numbers and put himself into the chase.

Holmes started to late, he'll put up great numbers for a number of years but won't have the longevity for the record.

Another to consider is Corey Dillon, great numbers every year, sadly his one biggest problem is that he plays for the Bengals, but he still gets the yards. Sounds like Barry :) I Just hope the team doesn't drain him and he retires early like Barry did.

[Jedieb]

Quick Rank
1. Jim Brown
2. Payton
3. Emmit
4. Barry
5. Campbell

Brown had a shorter season and walked away in his prime. If you look at his average per carry and his average per game he's at the top. Both would have gone down a bit if he'd played a few more years, but not much. I put Emmit above Barry because he was more durable. Emmit won a couple of his rushing titles because Barry got hurt and couldn't finish the season. Injuries and your resistance to them matters. Plus, Emmit is the kind of back that could carry a team on his back and lead them to a Superbowl. You can say what you want about his luck, and those are good points, but there was no luck involed in his seperated shoulder game against the Giants. He single handedly dominated that game and gave the Cowboys the bye they needed to make that second Superbowl run. Barry never could do that. He had notoriously bad playoff games. Plus, his negative runs killed lots of Detroit drives.

Payton gets my 2 spot because he had a bit more power than Emmit,. Campbell wasn't as durable, but if you saw him run you know why.

Could have beens
1. Gale Sayers
2. Tyrrel Davis
3. Bo Jackson

[jjwr]

No question Brown is the best, that guy was impressive and he left at such a young age too.

Yeah Barry had bad playoff games, but everyone and their grandmothers knew that the only chance the Lions had to win was to run the ball with Barry. Barry did carry the team but he was the team, Emmitt always had a great team to play on during his best years, Barry never had that. Emmitts Giants game was impressive, absolutely no doubt about that. He'll go down as one of the toughest backs ever.

I looked up the Emmitt vs Barry recieving numbers, I couldn't recall the exact argument from the office but I think it was that Emmitt had numbers far and away from Barry. Thats not the case for either, but they were close and the Smith fan didn't expect that.

Course this is only through their first 10 years in the league as thats all Barry played

Emmitt - 442 Receptions, 2728 Yards, 6.2 ypc avg.
Barry - 352 Receptions, 2921 Yards, 8.3 ypc avg.

So close, Emmitt caught more but Barry did more with them. Both had around 10 TD's recieving(I think Emmitt had 11 actually).

Another fun stat, during Barry's first five years he put up

73 Games 1432 Attempts 6789 Yards 4.7ypc and 55 TD's

Pretty solid numbers, but his next(and last 5 years) were just incredible

80 games(5 full seasons) 1630 Attemps 8480yds 5.2ypc 44 TD's

The only number that went down was the TD's. Thats just under 1700yds a year and this was at the end of his career. It really is too bad we all missed what he would have done had he kept playing.

[Jedieb]

The Lions were idiots for taking Barry out of many goal line situations. Emmit was an animal in the red zone. Even in the Steelers Superbowl where he barely had over 50 yards rushing, he still got 2 TD's. The Steelers couldn't stop him when it counted, at the goal line. TD's and durability are why I put Emmit ahead of Barry. But I still think Sanders is a great back. Outside of Gale Sayers, no one else could produce such long and amazing TD runs. But if I'm building a team to win a Superbowl, I'd pick Emmit over Barry.

I think Emmit has made the right decision in continuing to play. What's sad is that the Cowboys are no longer the right team for him. They're trying to install a west coast offense and Emmit isn't that kind of back. Marcus Allen was able to have productive years in KC after he left Oakland because he fit that team well. Emmit could probably have 2 more productive seasons, but Dallas may not be the place for him. :(

[jjwr]

Barry did get taken out a lot and you really gotta wonder why, he did get tackled for lots of losses but for each loss he had a 10yd gain.

Sadly Emmitt won't finish his career in Dallas, I really with the NFL would put in their own version of the "Larry Bird exepmtion" for players so they can finish their careers with the team they started with. Names like Bruce Smith, Troy Aikman, etc.....it really is sad.

What I wonder is what the Cowboys will do now that Emmitt has the record. THey obviously need to find out if Hambrick can carry the load before the offseason so they can decide on another back either in draft or Free Agency. And to decide that they gotta start playing him. I could see Emmitts numbers go down quite a bit down the stretch. Maybe still get 10-12 carries a game but they'd have to split the load or give Hambrick more carries to see if he can do it.

[JMK]

They should really do something other than sit him. He's been a class act his entire career, so they should do something just as classy for him. I think I would trade him to someplace that he really wants to go asap, unless Dallas is the only place he wants to be.

[dbn]

The man is still on pace to run for another 1000 yards this year, and doing that for the 12th time. No other running back has done that. I guess what I am saying Emmitt can still run, even under a bad " O" line these days, and this week is going to be the 9th different line he is going to have work with this year. I think it will be a mistake to cut his time in the game when he is still making good plays.

I will agree that Emmitt might be playing for a new team within a year or two, because Jerry Jones will be spending 9 million a season on Emmitt. From the sounds of things Jerry can afford it, but I am sure he will cut Emmitt for "rebuilding." The question I have been hearing would Emmitt play for less to be a Dallas Cowboy, and Jerry would be happy about that. Then again I am sure he would be happy if every player would play more for less lol!!

[jjwr]

The questions isn't whether he can still produce. His numbers have been ok but its obvious the Cowboys aren't a contender this year so do they stick with Emmitt who's been gettign in the 50-65 yard area per game or plan for the future. Yeah Emmitt can still run but they need to plan ahead and see what else they have cause they'll need a new back next year.

Unfortunetly they can't trade him, the NFL salary cap doesn't work well with trades.

[JMK]

Oh yeah, I forget about the salary cap every other day....:lol

[Jedieb]

I don't think it's soley a salary cap issue any more. There was a great article on ESPN.com by John Clayton about Emmit's future. Basically, the Cowboys are installing an offense that isn't suited to Emmit's strengths. Even in his prime, Emmit would have had trouble fitting into the new Cowboy system. They're obviously building for a future without Emmit. That's a shame, but it's what's happening. I really think he's better off retiring or finding a team where he can fit in nicely and finish off his career in style. Marcus Allen and the Chiefs is the kind of situation he should be looking for.

[jjwr]

The question is where. You'd have to look at teams without a rock solid #1 Back, Offhand the teams that come to mind are

New England
Pittsburgh(though the Dallas fans would hate this one)
Cleveland
Tennesee
Houston
Oakland
Philidephia
Giants
Arizona

Thats just off hand, I would imagine he would try to find someplace with a kind playing surface and nice weather to make it a bit easier on him.

[Jedieb]

San Diego might make a nice fit if Emmit were willing to take on the role of mentor and back up running back.

[JMK]

Oakland would be fitting I think. Having the #1 all tuem rusher along with the #1 all time receiver...

[Jedieb]

If he goes to Oakland they might as well start issuing our AARP memberships at training camp. :p

[JMK]

I don't know what AARP stands for, but I'll bet it's got something to do with making fun of old people!

[Sene Unty]

:lol.....I have to laugh at that Jedieb.....I thought the same thing...