Skills under debate (Xaz, Sanis)

[Sanis Prent]

Xazor, I would tone down the skills by a bit...that is an awful lot to be proficient in.

[Xazor Elessar]

ooc: I didn't say she was the best at all of them....I kinda went in order of what she is best at. She doesn't suck at a lot of stuff. Verse taught her to be good at many different things. She's got nearly as many weaknessess as strengths. You didn't complain about Marcus's list. :\ But I should have remembered....I'm the target here. Shouldn't have even posted.

[Sanis Prent]

Please do spare the drama queen victim stuff, for the zillionth time. You've got more stuff than Marcus. He is a Master, and while I think that even he is overloaded, its the lesser transgression. Remember the talk about constructive criticism?

[Xazor Elessar]

ooc: That's fine.....I'm not changing it. It's taken me a long time to make her story good and it's too late to change anything. Call her gifted if you don't like it.

[Sanis Prent]

It's taken me a long time to make her story good and it's too late to change anything.

Thats no kind of excuse. I've changed a zillion and a half things with Anbira, and I'm not the exception. People have often had to change the things they've written because they just aren't working in regard to other things. Calling her gifted isn't going to sweep it under the rug. Sometimes things have to adapt to fit the mold here. If I were to play it like that, I'd still be working with my old Anbira stuff, which frankly isn't cool here.

Just remember the addage "The jack of all trades is the master of none."

If you keep those skills, then you shouldn't be truly proficient in very many at all (2 or 3 maybe) and the rest would be moderate/light skill.

[Marcus Telcontar]

How about a suggestion

How about holding this discussion over PM and leaving this thread for the original purpose?

[Morgan Evanar]

I think part of the issue is that Xaz is having problems grouping her skills, and it looks like a huge list.

Here's my trimmed list:


-Illusionist
Mental Resistance
Nature Kin
Hand to Hand
Water Control
Speed
Garu
?Healing (damages self)
?Self-Healing ??? ^ conflicts with above?
Enhanced Senses
Force Awareness
Danger Sense (though she ignores it like crazy)
-Life Bond with Marcus Q'Dunn allows her to tap into his powers as well...
Telepathy (though it came with a lot of hard work)
Extremely fast learner
Force Boost
-Light Saber Expert
?Shadow Dancing (taught to her by her Father)?????

? denotes a question about that skill.
- indicates precieved issues.

With what you have, you could theoretically beat Morgan flat out in a fight unless the conditions catered completely to him (no force, hand to hand only).

I think it too much.

For your weaknesses, I've tried to condense them similarly.



Feral form elimnates use of force excepting communication
Naive
ADD
Impulsive
Emotional
Questionable Values


Aside from the Feral form issue, all of these can be overidden with willpower. Try and look at this from an outsider's perspective. Just read it... assume its someone you don't know.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Oh, I'd agree it's bit up there, but I'd also think Sanis can back off and approch the question a lot differently. He seems o have a bee in his bonnet about Xaz and good deal worse than I have on vampires.

* shrugs *

Now if this was combined to form some Ubermech as we have seen others do in the past, then you have legitimate concerns However, if it's played fairly..... then whats the problem?

[Morgan Evanar]

Because its not possible. Its a very simple issue. She's listing more skills than you are, even after I cleaned the list up.

You also list more weaknesses than Xaz does.

[Figrin D'an]

I have to agree with the "Weakness" side of things... about 60-70% of those things on the original list could be categorized as "Impulsive Nature." Besides Telekinesis (I believe that was the one), most of those items are more related to "state-of-mind" than anything and are quite closely related. That considered, it does seem to be rather unbalanced. With all of those strengths, Xazor should be able to take out just about any other character on the boards with little trouble using an "on-paper" comparison.

Putting a lot of time into a character to develop skills is great, but not being flexible towards potential change is really bad, IMO. If Figrin was the same character I began with 3 1/2 years ago, he simply wouldn't fit in the current RP realm. Being conscious of the RP enviroment is important to making a believable character...


My opinions... take it or leave it... :|

[Marcus Telcontar]

I've also been doing this for 3.5 years and had lot of time to develop a very detailed an clear picture of my chactar, what he can do, how long it takes, and how big, plus work out what weakness would result of a strength, and also work out what fair play and common sense.

(And when ot comes down to it, abotu the only skill I truly use in RP is swinigning a sword, if that these days)

I also have a sheet about 5 word pages long of techniques, powers, and variations, which looks Uber and too long but in the end, it's all variations on Telekinesis. That realisation is out of experience as well. She actually hasnt been around all that long (less than a year?) and she does play quite fair. So the list may raise an eyeborw, but it doesnt really pose that much of a problem. Not one that cant be easily sorted in a helpful manner.

Now if she was Darth Stone (a very notible GM'er) on the other hand claiming all that... I'd have a serious concern and a very legitimate one.

[Figrin D'an]

That's fine, and that is ultimately the point of this... to sort this out and attempt to clarify the situation.

I'm a bit concerned at the initial reaction to this topic though... I don't mean to pick on you, Xazor, but you really need to try to be more receptive to concerns and constructive criticism. This isn't a witch hunt or anything... it's about making RP better. Just flat out ignoring suggestions or writing them off as unfair targeting is hardly the best way to handle such a situation.

That being said, I think Morg did a pretty good job of condensing the abilities list... maybe now you can tell us if you agree or not.

[Jackson DeWitt]

Thats also an observation through rare, rose-tinted glasses. Having so many plusses and so few minuses, you couldn't rationalize fair play unless each of those attributes were weak in potency. I'm speaking for myself on this, but RPing with people who can cover every contingency from A to Z is wholly unappealing and boring.

In fact, I'd say its the minuses that make RPing more fun. Yes, do a few things well...but take time to enjoy the shortcomings too. Anbira can't block a good illusion. Sanis can't handle an ambush. Cirr can't do anything requiring higher than a 2nd grade education, Akrabbim can't use telekinesis, Sejah can't handle telepathy, and so on and so on.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'm a bit concerned at the initial reaction to this topic though...

I've got concerns too, But not at Xazor. I know she can respond to a helping hand very well, if you approach the issue right. There have been times I have PM'ed her and said "How about you think about....". My concern is Sanis choosing to yet again bring up an issue with Xazor he has in a dare I say it ... Marcus type manner.

Xazor I know very well can take a critical word - approach it right and there aint a problem. However, I have the perception that over time a tendancy for Sanis to openly target Xazor in a constant manner that really raises my eyebrows. That is a perception, I am probably wrong. I hope so.

However, I've had my perception reinforced. thence I believe that next time that Sains has a concern, he should be working it out with Xazor over PM and not posting openly as he did - even if it is solely for the fact Xazor will interpert an open posting as an attack on her yet again. I believe a PM and a rewording would be more appropriate

[Jackson DeWitt]

I'm not going to resort to PM unless its a strictly 1-1 issue, or something involving personal information. Of which this is neither. Frankly, its something that every one of us has to consider, and while this particular instance involves Xazor, its a thing that every RPer has to come to grips with.

I've no more axe to grind with Xazor than I do with LV, Dale, Kindo, Sieken, Sorsha, Eve Siren, or any other RPer that I've occasionally had a disagreement with. I disagree with everyone, eventually. She's not singled out, so please put that aside.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Then why did you single her out and then reply as you did when she had her hackles up?

Sanis, I said you have the perception of having a BUA about Xazor, to her. And I am telling you, your re-inforcing it. If your genuinely bringing this up as an issue for all of us to think about, I would have said something different. Now take what I have said and do with it what you will. But I would seriously reappraise how you approach an issue wiht her, because she is something like I am - approach the issue from one angle, she gets bent out of shape. Same issue, different angle, she is agreeable.

I also dont think your wrong on the issue of stengths / weaknesses and the issue does bear thinking about. I just have my doubts if you raised it well.

I would have said "Hey Xaz, that list is pretty long... you might be able to relook at some of that stuff, you might be overlapped in places" and started from there. Maybe the perception is simply that you and Xazor have a personality clash that isnt going to be resolved, because that is the way you two are. Or preferably, when introducing your thoughts, not mentioned anyone, but explained why you put limits on a character

To wit, the issue is appropriate and tips, suggestions should be given. Focusing and exampling one person however, is not a good idea. Those that have been around since the yer dot should share why they have selected skills/ weaknesses as they have and what they have done to balance a character out and fleshed out his / her existance. That, would be highly productive and good instruction to those less experienced.

Edit : You would think that after 3.5 years, I would be more capable of putting a cohirent and well spelt sentance together

[Helenias Evenstar]

Your about as likely to do that as you are to get a dog.

:angel

I'll only comment on one thing - I would concur on that Xazor is a sweet young lady who is quite approachable and fair minded. I dont blame her for being touchy as she is the subject at times to some unfair harsh opinion.

[Oriadin]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Xazor, I would tone down the skills by a bit...that is an awful lot to be proficient in.

This was the original comment made by Sanis. To me this doesnt sound too out of order or too harsh. He is not trying to tred on egg shells and hes not going on a full scale attack on Xazor here. Ive read Xazors skills and what have you and I have to say I think the list is pretty long. Ive got no idea what training shes had or what experiences shes had or whatever but that does seem like a long list. Shes a Knight and her list is more than twice as long as some of the Masters here, so something doesnt seem right along the way.

I have to say I found this thread of interest and it will help me to be realistic when I compile my list as Im sure it will help others. Seems Sanis didnt go over the top in his comment above I see no reason as to why this couldnt have been posted here.

Lets not have a falling out about this guys, lets just be reasonable and chat like adults about this situation. :)

[Sejah Haversh]

Okay, I'd liek to take a few moments in which I ahve access to say this:

What are a normal assortment of tricks in a Jedi's bag?

The things that come to mind as collon skills are these: (And I take these from the movies, and very common refrences on teh boards)

1. Force Push. Yep, can't watch a SW movie without seeing somebody knock someone or something over. Seems this is a basic skill.

2. Force Jump/Speed/Strength. We've seen Annakin jump off a cliff, and other variations of this done in the movies and often on the boards. I see it like a momentary power up in a video game. You eat the magic sandwich and you get special powers for a limited time. How long that time lasts is dependant on your skill, and most of all your experience with that attribute. If you're a beginner, don't expect to beat the level on just one magic sandwich.

3. Telepathy. Yes, you too can be Professor X with just a little bit of training. Unless you're Sejah, then you're screwed. It seems everybody and their brother who walks through the doors of the Jedo Complex can suddenly read minds and speak into your brain. Since when did eardrums go out of style? I guess they seem to clash with those lon, flowing brown robes.

4. Telekenesis. What would a Jedi be if you couldn't lift that remote control with your mind and pull it through the air into your hand so you can watch Galactic Baywatch on the holo-vid? Yep, after an average of two months in training, we have all become candidates for the Universe's best furniture moving team, and tend to use this skill more for fun than actual need.

5. Lightsaber skills. Does anybody have any idea how long it actually takes to become a fencer with a regular saber or epee, let alone a lightsaber? It takes a long time, and even longer to become or "master" level skill with it. Fortunately, through the magic of the internet and short attention spans, this skill cacn be picked up in, say, about a day or two. That, and you will have an uber-cool saber that is either: A: Very old, and a family heirloom, even though you are the only Jedi in your family, because all your family was slaughtered except you. B: Fery new and fancy, and looks beautiful and has a name. or, C: Um, is it supposed to flicker like that? I'm not sure I followed the instructions correctly.

6: Martial Arts Madness: Yes, just like the lightsaber, you too can be a vertible Bruce Lee meets Muhammad Ali. Of course, you were raised in the martial arts since bitrh, so you should have no problem here. Then again, if you're that good, you probably are more than a little selfish, probably are a bit snobby, and don't know how to do a lot of skilled jobs because you spent your life training to be an action film star.
OR:
You have come to the order, and through the miracle of ripping off the Matrix, we can stick a plug int eh back of your head at night and just dowload Wing Chun or Aikido or Jujistu, or whatever suits your fancy.

7: Force Senses: Now, I think a lot of people jump on this one without thinking first. Sure, it would be great to sniff out your adversary in a dark forest. But, would it be worth it if you could also smell all the decomposing leaves, all manner of animal dung, your own stinky armpits, and the fart some fat guy just ripped? Heightened senses are one thing, but, focusing them is quite another. Example two: You are in a crowded restaurant and you need to overhear some words beign said at a table across the room. So, you crank up your Force Hearing Aid and listen in. Unfortunately, that works just about as well as crankign up the television just to hear some background noise; all the foreground noise is still there, and it's a LOT LOUDER! So, along with the snippets of info you might be able to catch, you hear silverware clinking, people chewing, the waiter's squaky shoes, and some fat guy farting. I'm sorry, you couldn't PAY me to have super-senses unless I could control them absoulutelyl; and after a few experiences like that, I think few people would want to subject themselves to such torture just to have a keener sense of smell, hearing, taste or sight.

8: The Force 'Quickening'. That uncanny ability to sense another Force user, be they Jedi or Sith, in a large place. Now, this seems a more acceptable skill for the beginner. After all, they are tought to feel out the force, and those who are strong it it would stand out more. Nothign wrong with this one, unless it is used as a homing devices to find somebody miles away. Unless you're really good, odds are you'll lose them outside of a block, much like the immortals in Highlander.


Okay, so, that's my list of common skills, and also a few little rants I have about them. I have no problems with people being good at things, just as long as they are good realistically and think about more than just the immidiate fallbacks or shortcomings of that skill. This was directed in no way at anyone in particular, but I felt it should be voiced so we don't start harping on each other for bigger or smaller skill lists.

Sejah OOC-
Strengths- Long Winded.
Weaknesses- Super-speed hunt and peck typer

[Helenias Evenstar]

Nicely said. I'd say your Master is wise to have taught you so well, but seems I know whom it is, I shall simply kick him in the nuts instead.

FORCE BOOT TO THE NUTS!

:angel

Again, very nicely said.

[Sejah Haversh]

Well, I've been a board master of some medieval and sci-fi setting RP's for a few years. I've dealt with all kinds of crap with the same idiom: "If it doesn't make sense, you can't do it."

Of course, I was called the Iron-Fisted Board Commandant, but I liked that title and kept it myself.

I think sometimes we just get too wrapped up in what we think we're supposed to be, and forget who our characters really are. That's one of the worst things you can do to a character.

[Helenias Evenstar]

I think sometimes we just get too wrapped up in what we think we're supposed to be, and forget who our characters really are.

Supposed to be : Jedi Knight / Senator / Remover of limbs

Really is : A woman who has a husband she almost never sees, she's lonely and distant, a daughter whom is pregnant and has a omen on her, another adopted duaghter she was forced to send away for her own protection, Presently in a place where the beings she despises the most populate, has a past that included toasting the old Jedi Temple when she was an Imperial, a worst enemy who keeps on coming back from the dead, plus ..... in other words, a character built up with issues, problems, personality traits, abilities, skills, relationships set to a backdrop of a Galaxy far, far away.

Your quite right - it is resonable to have a skills list. I would even expect long ones occasionally. But I would expect that the ability to play fair be more important, the ability to manufacture a believeable character with depth and feel.... almost to the point where you can be sold it's a real, living, breathing being. Now, even if I have had the grace to have been here for ... 3 years (!!) now, I have had the opportunity to have a long skills list and it would be resonable to expect I do. However, that would be a failure as a roleplayer if my character was shallow and almost non existant.

Although I would not be like Marcus and have page upon page of facts, info, notes and backstory.

[Sene Unty]

"Although I would not be like Marcus and have page upon page of facts, info, notes and backstory."

Marcus-Yeah a list like that seems a little extreme :D (Just kidding)

I loved the list Sejah, very well said.

I would like to put my own two cents in if I may. In creating my character in the beginning I kinda just winged it, going on prefabricated ideas of what a jedi was supposed to do. Hell, don't all Jedi move stuff, then I should too! In doing the list of weaknesses and strengths I had to force myself to be fair. I tried to balance myself into something that was real....not some fantasy. Sure I could have created my charcter as some uber-world destroyer type that had no human emotion and could do things with the force that no one could imagine....but I didn't because that would be against the rules and sorely lacking in fun. I was a new kid on the block so I made it a point to balance myself as much as I could. Knowing what I know about my character I knew that I had no combat experience. Sene is just some rich kid with force potential. Hell I went months without getting a lightsaber! So as a weakness I put fighting ability. My only strength is an ability to absorb (which I will implement later) and intelligence. Everything else (like telikenisis and such) was either a weakness or a moderate ability. In truth I think I balanced well.

Xazor on the other hand as been here for a lot longer than I have. I think she has the right to have more strengths than me. Could the list have been shorter? Sure it could have. But than again this is her choice. If she wants to play her character with that much ability, fine! Let her! Is this attempt at forcing her to scale down just a jealous complex....a "Her character is stronger than mine" thing. If it is that is very petty......

[Vega Van-Derveld]

Is this attempt at forcing her to scale down just a jealous complex....a "Her character is stronger than mine" thing. If it is that is very petty.....

Considering the person who started this thread has a character of the same rank as hers, if not more powerful, I doubt that is the case. It's just an attempt to try and flatten out some issues which could be applied to more than one person, not just Xazor.

[Sene Unty]

Then why is Xazor's name the only one coming up?

[Sejah Haversh]

Because she had a very long list. I think it was meant to be constructive critizism, but she took it wrong and burned him in her next post.

I don't have a problem with how Sanis brought this up; he stated a simple concern, one that was not meant as an attack to anyone, and stood up for himslef when he had to. Had it been me who had the really long list, I probably would have been the one brought up, not her. It's that simple.

[Sene Unty]

There were alot of people who had very long lists. Listen, I do think she could have handled it a little better, but she felt like she was being attacked.....maybe that was an untrue assumption, but it was what she felt none the less. And who is anyone to tell her that she should handle constructive critisism better? If she wants to wig out at every thing someone tells her....than she should wig out!

[Sejah Haversh]

I wasn't trying to start a fight, Sene, I was just trying to answer your question. And possibly at the time Sanis posted his concern, hers was the largest on the list. Certainly others could have posted their lists since.

And the term 'Wig Out" always give me a laugh I imagine some kung fu type action with British judge wig weapons or something...

[Morgan Evanar]

Because I've had this discussion with Mark before. I've given up talking to him about RP stuff. We just don't see eye to eye.

Also, Xazor's list is the only one that I really could see being completely over the top.

/me shrugs.

Charley basically beat me to the punch, really. I would have brought it up, but with my condensed version of things, followed by my concerns, which still really haven't been adressed. (Figure Xaz is at school, no biggy.)

If I had that list, (and I've been here twice as long as Xazor, at least) I'd expect someone to pull me aside and go... thats a bit much.

Which is all Charley said in his first post.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Sene Unty
There were alot of people who had very long lists.


Really? Like whom? I don't see a lot of long ability lists, particularly in comparison to the one in question.




And who is anyone to tell her that she should handle constructive critisism better? If she wants to wig out at every thing someone tells her....than she should wig out!


That rhetorical question is an oxymoron. The comment, in of itself, is constructive criticism. By offering the point, it is an attempt to demonstrate a different point of view and offer a suggestion on how to improve. Is that not the whole point of constructive criticism? To learn from the concerns of others? To not be open to such things is ultimately a hinderance, and defeating to the social fabric of the community.

[Oriadin]

Someone swollowed a dictionary.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Criticism - Your list is too big

Constructive Criticism - Hey look, I think your list could be trimmed and this is the way I could see it being done....

I think therein lies a difference

[Morgan Evanar]

I notated the things I had issues and questions with. I'm not going to decide what she should trim.

I'm trying really hard to be diplomatic about it. But the way I see it is this:

"I think its too much."

or

"I think its too much and you should do this."

The first lets someone know there is an issue. I feel that Charley wanted Xaz to come up with her own solution, and that if he offered specific cuts Xazor would have simply gone completely fierce on him.

I'm about |-| this close to just going on the offensive and being totally blunt.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I would bet that if you posted as you did, she would have been fine.

I've already posted what the flare-up was really about. Those two have history and not just on this forum. Charley posts, Xazor thinks that he's at her throat, again. (Emphasis on again)

The base issue of a fair powers list is something to be discussed... the base probelm is a clash of personalities.

[Sejah Haversh]

Then perhaps Xazor should decide to extend the olive branch, instead of clubbing him with the tree.

Sanis was not rude at all in his post, it was her backlash that started this argument. That is all.

And no matter how nicely and unargumentatively I meant that, I WILL be misinterpreted and become the bad guy. I know it will happen it always does. So, go ahead, lay it on me, folks. My imagery always get me in trouble in things like these.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I can understand why she blew up and I'll leave it at that.

[Xazor Elessar]

I'm just not even going to say a word because if I did, I would say something that not only myself would regret, but so would everyone else.

Honestly right now, I am so pissed off that if I posted anything about this, I would probably get myself banned.

[Sejah Haversh]

I don't know. I don't want to know. I don't care.

All I know is that this kind of OOC bicker-backer leads to slow going on IC posts becuase everybody is worried about the Soap Opera that is going on in here and not paying attention to their own threads.

I'd like the Hatfeilds and McCoys to stop shooting each other because they're scaring my cows, to re-use a rather interesting image.

All I knew as a common poster was that an argument happened that shouldn't have, and now it seems to be being argued more by outsiders than by those two who actually have a problem. That's it, I'm done, I'm getting back to my RP threads while I still have a bit of time left online.

[Morgan Evanar]

Come back to this when you calm down. You still need to address the issue.

[Xazor Elessar]

I still can't address this.....don't think I will anytime soon....... :(

[Navaria Tarkin]

Um, this is crazy o_O

I actually thought the list was rather large too... some things could actually be consolidated into much broader ablities like I did.

And that could go for anyone that has mutliple abilities that could go under one category like Ryla did. She said she is strong in the living Force and gave examples.

Side note- One. Sanis' first post didn't seem bad at all to me. Maybe if he threw in a smiley then this thread wouldn't be this long. He did say it looked to be a lot to be proficient in. Which is constructive.

two- I can understand you being upset Xazor. Sometimes you feel like you are being singled out but no one is dissing you for what you have done. You have done alot, no one is disputing that.

three- If you get upset about these things, don't read them and don't post to them.

four- talking about this in AIM would have probably been just as bad methinks. Plus, talking about these things helps in the long run. Just doesnt seem that way.

anyway

:: ruffles Xazor's hair and wonders where she put her homework ::

[Sanis Prent]

I'll step away from this too, because you've finally infuriated me very much :)

Whenever you're cooled down, post.

Whenever I'm cooled down, I'll read.

Here are some gratuitous smileys, that will ease tension / lower my blood pressure:

:):):):):):):):):)

[Xazor Elessar]

*Takes a deep breath*

Thank you Navaria and Marcus.....both of you have spoken in ways which I will listen.

#1. When people criticize me without making it clear that they are not personally upset with me, I won't listen.

#2. When people yell at me, I shut down and I won't listen.

#3. I have an anger problem.

#4. A lot of things have been happening in my life lately that have added to tension and stress, hence why I appear to be 'crabby' or what have you.

#5. I think that what a lot of has been said makes sense, if given to me in the right angle as Marcus stated.

*Takes another deep breath*

It's difficult for me to admit when I am wrong, and for that I apologize.....trust me, I'm working on it. Charley, I don't want to be your enemy. We hit our heads together often because our personalities are different and our views are different. That's perfectly fine, that's how the world is. I am a sensitive person, but beyond what most any of you know, I have good reason to be, so take my word for it.

*Yet another deep breath*

I could have grouped a lot of those things together, but my whole purpose of laying them out was to clarify bigger groups of things. I was unsure of how generalized you guys wanted them to be. In reality, I could have said one thing for each thing, but mentally included everything I put plus more stuff. I too have lists of things as Marcus does, but that's to keep my Character and her story straight or I'd get lost and confused.

Morgan, I appreciate you grouping those things together for me, I'm still learning different categories and where things go, so I myself am a bit confused. I play all of those things fairly though. Marcus can attest to that....so can many others including a lot of the Sith around here. I have done a lot of battles and I have lost a good majority of them. I don't GM or touch anything of the sort because that's not fair and I hate when it happens to me....though I let it happen to me as to avoid fights where I would completely loose my head.

I do not feel as though I owe anyone an apology because I did nothing wrong. I stated something and people went off on me and then Charley judged my emotions by saying something to the affect of being a Drama Queen. Sorry if you don't like the way I react, but that's who I am and that's who I'll always be: me. Most everyone else on the boards have no problem with me....actually, I can't think of anyone else on the boards who has a problem with me....guess that says something. I'm not knocking you Charley, but you need to lay off of me....I'm dealing with a lot and I come here to escape....not look for trouble with people who I try to count as friends....:)

[Morgan Evanar]

I have a lot of issues with you, but I've seen how you react to almost anything critical and have gone with a "it annoys me so I'm going to ignore it policy."

Its the same one I've taken with Mark's RPing.

[Figrin D'an]

This whole thing gives me a headache...

How about this:

Since Morg kind of summarized the ability list, Xazor can look at that and decide if it is accurate and acceptable, and make changes, then edit the original post in the ability list thread. If she wants help with it, she can talk to Morg, or I'll volunteer to help too since I commented on it as well. We'll leave this thread open so people can discuss other ability issues that may come up as the other thread continues to grow, just as long as it sticks to legit concerns and doesn't become a flame fest.

There is way to much angst about this right now... like Sejah said, let's just fix it and move on...

[Ryla Relvinian]

I think that everyody needs to take a step back for a moment and relax. Let's remember that this is just a game and not take things so seriously... and that goes for everybody. :D

[AmazonBabe]

There are a lot of things I'd like to comment on in this thread, but in the interest of keeping the peace, I'm gonna side with what Ryla just said.

And right now, that's all I'm interested in... PEACE. :)

[Sene Unty]

I concur with AB and Ryla.......I'm just gonna let this go......

[Gurney Devries]

I don't think it's a good idea. If you just step back and leave this one alone for a while, you'll not want to come back to it. It'll disappear and die, without being resolved, and just cause problems again in the future. It's better to resolve a problem than to try and forget about it.

I think it was better that this was addressed in public. If it were over IM or PM, it would have likely just developed into an argument that got nowhere. Like this, it has a chance of not only being resolved, but influencing others when they decide their character's strengths and weaknesses.