What to do with the Gue-situation - vote here

[Master Yoghurt]

In order to clarify what the majority thinks should be done to adress the concerns discussed in <a href=http://swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23942>this thread</a>, there will be a vote. The vote will be final and decisive when a +50% majority vote can be established. Both group mods and board wide mods can vote.

A. Give him an ultimatum: One more incident of rule-breaking, circumventing staff policy or causing trouble, no matter how minor, and he's gone for good.

B. Ban him now, enlisting the reasons why he is banned.

[Master Yoghurt]

My vote: A

[Nupraptor]

A.

With an addendum: I think we should think of a way to address him in public. That way, when we have to ban him (which I think is only a matter of time), people will not argue about it or say that we were unfair. Let everyone know that we gave him ample warning.

[imported_Eve]

B

[ReaperFett]

A providing we can do it in a PR-friendly way

[Morgan Evanar]

B

[Navaria Tarkin]

A - But yes. Public in the most professional manner possible so everyone is crystal clear.

[Sanis Prent]

A

[Ryla Relvinian]

No matter how peeved I am at this sort of behavior, I must also vote A. Since it's likely he'll do something again, at least we gave him time to consider his situation.

[Figrin D'an]

Edit: Ballot withdrawn.

I'm choosing to abstain from this vote.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

I vote B, and if you are interested in knowing why, you can read the next post I'm going to make in the plagarism thread. :)

By the way, I volunteer my services for the drafting of whatever text becomes necessary, be it a banning or an ultimatum.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

B

Ban him now. List the reasons. Be professional, and polite, but to the point and do NOT give in.

[Taylor Millard]

B. He does need to be banned. We've given him enough chances. But, I agree with LD. List the reasons, be professional, and polite.

And we can't give in.

We've got to be clear so he can't just say that, "Oh we're going against him because A) We're homophobic, B) Hate him, C) Just are out to have a scapegoat.

He can be a nice guy over AIM...but he has no common sense whatsoever. And he's broken the rules enough. He's been banned before and should be banned again.

[Admiral Lebron]

B. If people want to go and bitch about his leaving they can go with him.

[Marcus Telcontar]

B.

[Xazor Elessar]

B.

[imported_Eve]

Official Tally (as of 7:24 PM MST):

Yog - A
Nup - A
Fett - A
Nav- A
Sanis - A
Ryla - A

TOTAL : 6


Eve -B
Morg - B
Hob - B
Lili - B
Tay - B
Lebron - B
Marcus -B
Xazor - B

TOTAL: 8


Fig - Obstain

TOTAL: 1

TOTAL VOTES SO FAR : 15

[AmazonBabe]

A

I'm about second (third, fourth, and fifth chances).

[DarthHERA]

A.

(what Nup said)

[ReaperFett]

8-8-1 :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

...and the word is Abstain. :D

[Nupraptor]

The vote is a tie, and there hasn't been any votes in 3 days now. If by the end of today, there isn't a tie-breaking vote, I'm going to make a decision.

Edit ~ Anyone?

[Nupraptor]

It's after Midnight EST. I'm changing my vote to B: Ban him now. Let's get this over with.

I'm waiting another day to hear any opinions / responses on this before I go ahead and do it.

[Sanis Prent]

I think its prudent to defer to you, since the vote gridlocked. I'll support it.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I also agree, Nup, and although I initially voted A just because I knew he wouldn't change, I think it's prudent to ban him.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I agree

[Marcus Telcontar]

Havent changed my mind - march him

[ReaperFett]

Well, I dont see that as good neccesarrily. You orginally said warn him, but because of a split change your vote? Couldnt we find someone else to give an opinion? I mean, SWFans hasnt voted yet.

[Nupraptor]

I considered it and, unless it would cause another deadlock, I've changed my opinion.

[Morgan Evanar]

Aye, march him.

[ReaperFett]

Fine fine, but I still think giving SWFans the last vote would work better.

[Nupraptor]

I'm sure that this thread has not escaped his notice. I'd much rather change my vote and get something done than to leave it undecided and have no action at all taken (which has happened in the past).

[Master Yoghurt]

I also agree with Nup, thinking along the same lines as Ryla.

Even though I generally prefer a more formalised way of handling permament bannings (last final warning etc), I have to admit, my first thought when reading the plagiarism thread was "Ok, enough of it allready, ban him!". Even if we did not ban him now, it would be a question of time before another occurance happened.

Also, last time I checked (reading the debate), SWFans was in favor of banning as well? At least that seemed to be his initial viewpoint, not sure if it changed? Either way, lets finalise the decision and take action now, as this has gone on for longer than it should have allready..

[ReaperFett]

He didnt actually vote though :)

[TheHolo.Net]

I have intentionally chosen to not vote. I would like to see a situation get handled without my having to be the primary one carrying it through for a change.

I will suggest that a letter to the community and to Gue be drafted for presentation so that reasons are presented beforehand. Keeping things clear, cut and dry as to why it has happened.

[ReaperFett]

Ahhh, good idea actually. Didnt think of it :)

[Nupraptor]

I am now in the process of composing a public address regarding his banning. It would be of a great help to me if his offenses could be listed as completely as possible, to lend more weight to the matter. Please either PM me or post here. I've already got quite a few, but I would like to make this as complete as possible.

[ReaperFett]

Oh, forgot to say, due to SWF wishing to abstain, Im am fine with this ruling :)

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Nup: If you want to PM me what you've got on Gue already, I may or may not be able to add to it. Just a thought.

[Figrin D'an]

I'll offer my services as a proofreader for the public letter as well... seeing as my choice to withdraw my vote caused this stalemate in the first place, I think it's the least I can do at this point...

[ReaperFett]

Figrin, dont act like its your fault. It was a stalemate because an equal amount of people chose the choices :)

[imported_Eve]

Nup - thanks for moving things along. You're the go-to guy, and that's just super.

Need some, help? Just ask.

[Levi Argon]

I also chose not to vote due to how the discussion prior to this vote went.

[Nupraptor]

Thanks to Eve, who is exceptionally professional when handling these situations, I have a final letter drafted. I post it here in its complete form. If anyone has any comments or changes, please make them ASAP, as I plan to post the letter some time tomorrow.

One thing: Should the thread this is posted in be open for discussion, or simply closed, as an announcement?
----

Public Notification of a banning:

This letter is being presented so that the community may understand the actions we have taken and the reasons they were taken.

As of xx:xx PM today, Lord Gue and all of his alternate IDs are globally banned from the SWFans.net community. This includes all groups boards and sub-forums. The banning is permanent and irreversable.

The decision was based on the facts that Gue was:

(1) Creating offensive or inappropriate posts, including sexually natured comments and belittling remarks.

(2) Creating situations that falsified the intentions and actions of the SWFans staff, which caused disruption, unrest, and ultimately strayed SWFan members from the positive goals of this community, including changing posts and/or editing remarks which were initially inappropriate.

(3) Circumventing of the swear filter, including finding ways to swear in public forums that strictly prohibit swearing.

(4) Spaming or creating several threads which were personal (1-1 natured) and/or not meant for the forum they were posted, including several posts made in SWFans OOC.

(5) Plagiarizing or passing off someone else's intellectual property as his own, including the posting of a roleplay (under an alias name) which originated from www.ninjai.com. Disregarding this international law put SWFans at risk for negative and unwanted legal action.

(6) Participating in the action of leaking Private Forum information, including persuading a friend with access to leak conversations from SWForum private forums.

Gue has disregarded SWFans staff's repeated warnings and reprimands to cure each violation committed several times. He has been warned, fairly, and consistently over three times. Yet he continued to break community rules and promote a generally negative atmosphere in the community. For this, he has shown his inability to exist in this community, and is banned.

We can no longer, in good conscience, give him any more leeway by postponing this action. This was agreed upon by the group moderators as well as the SWFans.net staff, since a global banning will affect the groups hosted here, as well.

This staff is confidant in this decision, and, other than this post, will not lend any further explanation to certain events in an effort to preserve some privacy to Gue. Anything disclosed here is SWFans territory. The staff feels that an explanation was due to the members.

[Taylor Millard]

Great job you two. :)

I like it.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, I think that is great. When this is posted, what will the additional actions, if any, taken with people who protest?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Looks good to me.


When this is posted, what will the additional actions, if any, taken with people who protest?

requested to place a resoned and rational arguement and not a flamefest. Flamefest get closed and if they persist.... they get warned... and if they persist - given the map to the exit door for a few days

[Figrin D'an]

Here's a revised version... just a few minor changes... use them as you see fit.

-----------------------------------------------------


Public Notification of Banning:

This letter is being presented so that the following actions, and the reasons thereto, may be publicly acknowledged by the community.

As of xxxx PM today, Lord Gue and all of his alternate IDs are globally banned from the SWFans.net community. This includes all groups boards and sub-forums. This banning is permanent and irreversable.

The decision to ban was based on the facts that Gue was:

(1) Creating offensive or inappropriate posts, including sexually natured comments and belittling remarks.

(2) Creating situations that falsified the intentions and actions of the SWFans staff, which caused disruption, unrest, and ultimately strayed SWFan members from the positive goals of this community, including changing posts and/or editing remarks which were initially inappropriate.

(3) Circumventing of the swear filter, including finding ways to swear in public forums that strictly prohibit swearing.

(4) Spaming or creating several threads of a personal nature (1-1 conversation) and/or not meant for the forum in which they were posted, including several posts made in SWFans OOC.

(5) Plagiarizing or passing off someone else's intellectual property as his own, including the posting of a roleplay (under an alias name) which originated from www.ninjai.com. Disregarding international copyright law places SWFans at risk for negative and unwanted legal action.

(6) Participating in the action of leaking Private Forum information, including persuading a friend with access to leak conversations from SWForum private forums.

Gue has repeatedly disregarded SWFans Staff warnings and reprimands to cure each violation committed. He has been warned, fairly and consistently, more than three times. Despite this, he continues to break community rules and promote a generally negative atmosphere. Therefore, he has shown his inability to exist as a member of this community, and is banned.

We can no longer, in good conscience, give him any more leeway by postponing this action. This was agreed upon by the group moderators as well as the SWFans.net staff, as a global banning will affect the groups hosted here in addition to the main board.

This staff is confident in this decision, and, beyond this notice, will not lend further explanation to certain events in an effort to preserve some privacy to Gue. Anything disclosed here is SWFans territory.

The staff felt that an explanation was due to the members.


----------------------------------------

The only statement I'm a little confused about is:

"Anything disclosed here is SWFans territory."

I'm not sure what this is implying... perhaps I'm not reading it correctly. Clarification would be appreciated.

The only other thing I might recommend is that the letter be "signed" by each group staff, as well as the main board staff. This give a much more bold and powerful statement that the various groups are standing together on this decision. It is mentioned in the body of the letter, true... but the "signature" is the last thing people will read... it will leave everyone with an impression of unity amongst the various admins/mods.

[TheHolo.Net]

I don't underatand the territory remark either. o_O

I think Figrin has a good idea with the signature thing, but how is it we do that? By each of us posting in agreement in the thread?

[ReaperFett]

Reads well, except for two things:

(4) Spaming or creating several threads which were personal (1-1 natured) and/or not meant for the forum they were posted, including several posts made in SWFans OOC.
I would alter/remove this. Others make 1-1 natured topics, so that is hard to really use, IMO. Also, how is this different from most the posts in OOC?


(6) Participating in the action of leaking Private Forum information, including persuading a friend with access to leak conversations from SWForum private forums.
I thought Lebron just told him. Do we have any evidence stating this as true?





Just some things that WILL crop up though, so we're ready:

(1) Creating offensive or inappropriate posts, including sexually natured comments and belittling remarks.
sexually natured comments are done by some mods. Belittling remarks happen by the odd one too.


(2) Creating situations that falsified the intentions and actions of the SWFans staff, which caused disruption, unrest, and ultimately strayed SWFan members from the positive goals of this community, including changing posts and/or editing remarks which were initially inappropriate.
People may want that clarified a bit. Dont change the wording, it sounds good, but people may want the nail on the head a bit more.


(5) Plagiarizing or passing off someone else's intellectual property as his own, including the posting of a roleplay (under an alias name) which originated from www.ninjai.com. Disregarding this international law put SWFans at risk for negative and unwanted legal action.
This one will just erupt ;)


Anything disclosed here is SWFans territory
That I dont overly get, so others might get confused.



Im not saying change these later ones, just be ready for people commenting :)

[Nupraptor]

Rather than re-word all of those points, I think I'll just add something like this:

"While it can be argued than any of these violations, by themselves, may not warrant a banning, the culmination of all of them, combined with the fact that he has ignored our warnings about them, makes it the only option left to us."

[imported_Eve]

Good morning.

Yeah, get rid of the territory remark. I would explain, but you're right, it wouldn't be understood. My reasoning behind that remark already gets across in the first sentence of that paragraph.

*****************

You know, when an employee gets reprimanded or fired, the reasons can not be discussed, by law, with the other employees, to protect privacy.

I don't know why we even do that here. While I tried to make the reasons bland enough to not point to specifics, it's still a private issue between us and Gue.

I know we're explaining because we're worried about backlash, but there is still a degree of privacy for Gue that must be considered.

Don't mean to turn a tangent, just thinking.

*****************

I still think this post should be posted by a "Moderator" ID, rather than our names.

*****************

The corrections look good to me. When will this be posted?

[Nupraptor]

I'm going to add that line and post it within the hour. It's not going to be open for debate. If someone wants to start a thread about it, that's ok as long as it doesn't develope into a flamefest (which it probably will).

[imported_Eve]

I would suggest that staff don't reply. This statement explains all we need to say. If we respond, we'll lend to the debate... if one happens.

[ReaperFett]

I think we should reply though, as it would show we're listening.


And yeah, add that culmination part, that should help a lot.

[Morgan Evanar]

No. Don't reply. Its not up for debate.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Agreed, and the "belittling" addition caught most of what I would have added. I know without knowing specific instances that there have been several times when Gue has handled situations poorly, either intentionally or without caring. Which is really the point- he just doesn't care what kinds of trouble he causes as long as he gets attention.

Let this be the last attention he gets.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*washes hands of the situation* Looks good.

[TheHolo.Net]

Yup, well handled without me doing it. Bravo. :)

[Taylor Millard]

Anyone else need soap, water, and a towel? I just washed my hands of hte situation too.

Great job guys. :)