OOC tensions...

[TheHolo.Net]

The Po is a Bad A** thread took a nasty turn because a couple people seem to have forgotten that 99.9% of the stuff said in that forum is a joke and means absolutely nothing.

Right now I am debating on giving those discontented with the stuff siad in there a break from the forum by removing their access to it, or just closing the forum for a few days. I swear its amazing how touchy a few are lately.

[ReaperFett]

I wouldnt close it from all, as that is unfair on most of the people

[Sanis Prent]

I know I can be an -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- at times, but yikes...I hope not everybody takes my jokes like that :(

[Levi Argon]

I think your decision to close the OOC forum like this is rash and of poor judgement from someone who's views are normally untainted and ideal for this place. I am dissatisfied by this course of action for one and I don't know about others but I strongly would advise, re-opening the forum until this action is discussed thoroughly.

I get the feeling this was an individual decision considering the speed with which the closing of the forum was carried out. Punishing the masses for the behaviour of the few (Alright, maybe more than few!) is unfair and will do nothing but generate discomfort and caution around the staff of this community.

[Sanis Prent]

I agree. For the most part, its civil enough. I think putting some folks who are having problems on a bit of a break would be better in the long run.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
I agree. For the most part, its civil enough. I think putting some folks who are having problems on a bit of a break would be better in the long run. I considered that as well but thought it best to close the entire forum rather than restrict a few. That way no one can say that favorites are being played.

[ReaperFett]

I know I can be an -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- at times, but yikes...I hope not everybody takes my jokes like that
Well, you did manage to hit Wei straght on something personal.

[Sanis Prent]

which was?

[ReaperFett]

Not a clue, but he said he had been to therapy about it.

[Levi Argon]

That was being melodramatic in my opinion. He had blown what was light-hearted banter way out of proportion, then started talking about his therapy which in my opinion was either attention-seaking or sympathy-seaking. Why? Because if a person had to have therapy, they wouldn't just shout it from the mountain-tops like he did, it's more personal than that. I'm not saying he's lying, I'm saying that all of what he said at that point was just drama.

[ReaperFett]

I was talking to Wei the other day, and he doesnt strike me as an attention seeker. I think he just took something bad.

[Levi Argon]

Regardless, if you have had therapy you don't announce it like he did unless you want a reaction.

[Admiral Lebron]

Maybe he gets therapy for ADD?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

both Wei and Zeke seem to have a lot of background IRL that makes them unable to take personal jabs like that non-seriously.

I think we should discuss the closure of OOC, and what it should be limited to, or changed to, and then make an announcement and go with it.

Like, if we decide to just limit Wei and Zeke (a bad move IMO) then we woulc reopen the OOC and leave a note. Also I think that contacting Wei and Zeke via PM and talking it out with them is a good idea as well.

[TheHolo.Net]

I have an announcement set to go up but realize I tend to ramble and not do so well getting my point across, so I’ll post it here so we can discuss and make changes to it before it becomes reality.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The OOC forum has been closed for a little “cool off” period. Some may agree with this decision and some may disagree. Its impossible to please everyone all the time, an unavoidable fact of life.

This is about giving every member that frequents this forum some time to reflect on the topics and contents of posts within.

This is not about singling any individual(s) out. If that were the intention of this action, the forum would still be open and any singled out individuals would have found their access to the OOC forum gone.

It is widely known among those that frequent the OOC forum that the majority of comments made here are with the sole purpose of seeking entertainment. Some comments that are meant to be funny are sometimes not perceived that way by some people. But really there is no real good reason for any comment, unless specifically stated in plain black and white as an insult, to be taken as one. Going out of your way to read between the lines of any post in this forum to find some kind of bash or insult is a waste of time and energy that would be much better spent having a good time.

If you see something of that nature between the lines of a post, ignore it and move on to something that doesn’t strike you that way. We are all here to have fun, not be at odds with one another over something so trivial and absurd as assuming someone “meant” something other than what they said. Really with nothing more than text communication it is impossible to discern with 100% assurance that any individual meant something other than what they said specifically. Text is virtually an emotionless communication media, and we need to be wary of putting feeling into the heart of another that were not intended because we perceive things a specific way.

The best thing to do is move on and try to find something that is enjoyable. Almost every time such a situation arises it is later gleaned that what “one person said the other person meant” was 100% in the wrong.

Whatever problems anyone may have in real life are generally not known to other people in our cyberspace world and it is usually best that you keep those real life problems where they belong, not bring them here and use them to allow something someone said to strike you personally, because more often than not the one who said something like that has no idea, nor should they.

This forum is almost all about a lighthearted, carefree, and fun atmosphere. Occasionally there is a serious issue that gets discussed and usually resolved with no trouble. I believe that everyone needs to reflect for a little while on just how unreal our little world of chitter chatter is and do what they can to stop taking things so seriously.

This is about getting together for fun, plain and simple. Don’t lose sight of that by misrepresenting yourself or others.

[ReaperFett]

It appears that there are some posters here who would rather play political games and read between the lines of posts made in this forum to further support their political type objectives, whatever they may be.
You can say no names, but those innocent would feel theyre being blamed.

[TheHolo.Net]

Criticisms with suggestions are more helpful.

If I were to point fingers it would be much worse. Playing favorites is one of the gripes lately so we are best off not to do anything that can be construed as such.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think using the "political" wording is bad, but I don't know what to suggest you replace it with. Other than that, I think its ok. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

Political jargon has been reworded.

[ReaperFett]

Onto the reasons it has been closed temporarily. It appears that there are some posters here who would rather play political games and read between the lines of posts made in this forum to further support their political type objectives, whatever they may be.

No names will be mentioned, as this is not about singling any individual(s) out. If that were the intention of this action the forum would still be open and any singled out individuals would have found their access to the OOC forum gone.
Aside from that bit, I cant see a problem

[TheHolo.Net]

Cool, I'm good with dropping that part. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Zeke and Wei believe they were only trying to defend themselves when Swfans blew a gasket and closed the whole forum down. *le sigh* Now they're taking it out on NPC's with their Sith characters.... I hope this can be resolved..I tried to explain that no insult was intended, and Zeke said "Then why did it all come off as insulting?"

How can I explain that it was only his perception of a silly post? gah! *beats something :headbash*

Oh yes, and I think its better. Maybe take out the "no names will be mentioned" and start that sentance with "This is not about singling any individuals out"

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yes, better. Me like.

[TheHolo.Net]

Thanks for the help Fett and LD. :)

I'll give it a little more time for others to comment on before I update the announcement.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Zeke and Wei believe they were only trying to defend themselves when Swfans blew a gasket and closed the whole forum down. *le sigh* Now they're taking it out on NPC's with their Sith characters.... I hope this can be resolved..I tried to explain that no insult was intended, and Zeke said "Then why did it all come off as insulting?":x
Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
How can I explain that it was only his perception of a silly post? gah! *beats something :headbash*That is exactly right. Maybe my announcement will help make that more clear but hearing his attitude makes me think it probably won't.

[Lady Vader]

*raises hand*

I have a question...

Why not just close the topic causing the problem instead of closing the entire forum? That's somewhat disuptive in my opinion to close an entire forum for the sake of one topic where some ppl lost their cool.

As it is, if this course of action is stuck with (which I do not agree with), I still believe the said topic should be closed so as not to further or escalate any more discussion in that particular topic.

Also, something I wanted to bring up...

Closing of a topic is not such a bad thing as compared to closing a forum. If I were the starter of the topic, I'd probably feel singled out if my topic were closed. But if the entire forum were closed, then I'd really feel aweful, cause then I'd come to realize I'd contributed to the disrupting of the funness for the OOC forum, and then I'd start fearing ppl would hate me.

Now, of course, I'm going with what I would feel... but who's to say some won't feel similar?

[Nupraptor]

All of this went on today?! :x

Maybe I missed something, but it didn't look like anything that needed the whole forum closed down. It was one thread... couldn't it have been locked? Maybe it doesn't seem that out of hand to me because I was sleeping at the time.

I can hardly believe that Zeke took the Implement posts seriously. Wow.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Wei as well. Yeah, maybe re-open the forum, and just close that thread. ??

[TheHolo.Net]

I posted my announcement to that thread and re-opened the forum. I'm not sure about locking the thread yet though. :\

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Zeke says his account still has no access. ????? But no one is being singled out, correct?

[TheHolo.Net]

o_O

Checks Zeke's account

I see no issues. :huh

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Either does he, now. Good.

[Levi Argon]

I maintain that closing the forum is/was a bad idea which only leads to bad places; everytime a thread gets out of control the forum is closed - not good for business - just for the sake of the paranoid folk who believe they are being "singled out".

The staff should be considerate of people's feelings but not to the extent of walking on eggshells and jeopardising everyone's fun.

[TheHolo.Net]

Was it an attempt to “walk on eggshells”? Yes probably so. Was it perhaps the wrong thing to do? Yes it very well could have been. But things between Wei and Zeke have been disintegrating as of late both in OOC and at GJO. Could I have just closed that single topic? Yes, but it would have been used by them as yet another instance of being singled out and treated unfairly. The course of action I took was not fair to those who were innocent, but in its heavy handedness it also may have caused people to actually rethink some things and attitudes.

In this particular case the course of action that was taken cannot be called by Zeke or Wei, an instance of singling anyone out, and it also displayed that such attitudes will not be tolerated. These forums survived for nearly three years with no OOC forum and has survived with one for less than half that amount of time, but in that time it has been the source of many unneeded headaches. Something drastic needed to be tried IMO, to show that posting there is a privilege, one that can be taken away in an instant.

I’m not saying that the OOC forum does not also serve some good purposes because if I did I would be wrong, but some need to realize that their attitudes will not get them anywhere, it will only cause hardship for all. This was an example of that. It may not have been the right decision and it may not have worked, but it was tried. Time will tell if it really helps or not.

I apologize regarding my actions to those that feel they were unjust or unnecessary, but I am not a perfect being just like none of us are. I'm not asking for perfection in having done what I did, just respectful consideration for others.

[ReaperFett]

As a thought, could the problem be how the OOC forum is?

[Gav Mortis]

What you have said is very true, a sad truth at that, the OOC Forum is a cause of many unneeded and unwanted problems. However as we all know it has now become what is essentially a backbone for the roleplaying population here at SWForums because the roleplayers get to interact and strengthen bonds and relationships thus resulting in a higher quality of roleplay from all parties involved because there is a degree of trust and familiarity amongst our society. Closing it could in the long run (even if only temporarily) paralize the progress of roleplay here.

What I suggest is that we do a bit of spring cleaning - in the middle of October - for the guidelines for posting in the OOC Forum specifically. And that is the key word here: "Specific".

I think it is important that we come up with some accurate, clearly-defined guidelines for posting in that forum; what is acceptable and what is not, what is "spam" and it's consequences(I think the definition of "Spam" in the FAQ is good but perhaps the use of some examples, the various guises of "Spam" and stressing the importance of treating fellow roleplayers and members of this online community with equal respect. Respect being another keyword.

Respect for these forums, their respective "inhabbitants", respect for what goes where and why, highlight the roles of mods and admins so that the attention of an admin isn't requested over a mod for the editing of a post, respect for each other and respecting each others privacy and standards - everyone has different standards - what language topics of conversation are acceptable. Think of it as a refresher course as it were for those who frequent the "Out Of Character" forum. It's all very well pointing people in the direction of the FAQs but with time some things need to be reviewed and even altered and presented so that the alterations are made clear to posters here. I think a great deal of us - posters - need to be reminded of what exactly is the OOC Forum.

One thing I've been pondering is should there be a sub-forum within OOC for more roleplay specific topics and discussions? It has got to the point where maybe we need to find a way of organizing forum content over there. It has to be said, some things posted over there are absolute tripe, other threads are amusing or intriguing whereas there are still those that concern roleplaying.

Another thing I've noticed is that I think it would be really nice to see serious discussion not going up in smoke due to posters hammering the thread with unrelated, unproductive posts and the original purpose of the thread is lost. I think that is a problem that needs clamping down upon. Perhaps a thread icon be assigned so that posters and moderators can see immediatly that a certain thread is serious and it is thus illegal to make posts that don't contribute to the theme of the thread. Light-heartedness is great and I have no problem with it, except when it comes to serious issues or when people don't appreicate it in their threads. Thread "hijacks" have become quite popular as of late and "hijacking" is seen as something to be proud of now - (Raises hand) I know I've contributed to my fair share of such hijacks - but it is simple issues such as these that I think we need to look at, assess and tackle.

Just a few issues have been touched upon here but I think a "Refresher Course" in the use of the OOC Forum is needed for all.

[TheHolo.Net]

I’m in agreement with almost everything you just said Gav. Sub-Forums in the OOC forum may not be a bad idea at all. As I see it, I think we could get away with making the OOC forum contain no posts, just be two separate sub-forums. One could be the catch all for comical and useless topics, while the other could be for serious Roleplay Discussion, with a warning in the description tat hijinks and hijacking are not welcome there. A little lighthearted banter would be okay but turning a topic into something not at all serious when it began as such would be forbidden, while the General forum could be the place for the anything (with reasonable limits) goes.

A refresher and update of the FAQ is also a very good point that could most certainly should be considered, discussed, and decided upon. Clearer definitions and pointing those out to the community at large couldn’t hurt at all, IMO. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

And rule one in the "catch-all" forum could be "there's no such thing as spam."

We don't seem to have a problem at Meras, and all we do is spam our hearts away. Of course, not everyone from Swfans is also at Meras.

Spam, such as promoting websites and such, would be not allowed, but mindless posts? Everyone posts mindlessly in OOC *anyway,* and people try and put their own definitions on what posts are "spam" and what aren't. Basically: YOU contribute spam, while *I* contribute laughs and biting wit.

[TheHolo.Net]

One thing that cannot be tolerated in either of these suggested forums is a lack of respect for others. Thats what caused me to do what I did today.

It really makes me fume when I see someone call another person an idiot or cause the censor to enact itself when speaking. Lack of respect for others was what earned Itala his leave from these forums and it can and will happen again if people persist in being disrespectful of others.

Maybe these suggested forums cold be called:

General Discussion OOC
Roleplay Discussion OOC

With appropriate yet brief descriptions for each?

[ReaperFett]

I dont think you can really identify spam. Is a topic going off spam? Or replying with just lol or a smiley?

Ditto really with "Hijacks". If a thread about, say, LOTR turns into a thread about movie scores, is that hijacked? You could argue that it has evolved. It'd be worse IMO to every time that happens make them start a new thread.


To me, the things that need sorting most are:


-People who hijack/flood and gloat about it.

-People who never speak of ANYTHING in particular, or RP, but still amass huge counts.

-When someone posts in a thread with NO relevence to the topic IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Not someone talking about something vaguely relvent. Just those with NO relevence.

-Harassment. I only vaguely remember this, but didnt VIdel used to constantly reply to Jedah or Rama or similar, and NEVER say anything positive, just criticising? That's wrong. At times, Gue seems to have the same thing following too.

-Multi-thread convos. This is when the same two or three are posting reasonably irellevent things in multiple threads, when they could make do with the one thread.

-Overuse of non-relevent short thread names. This REALLY gets to me at times. Some posters, no names, seem to constantly start threads with two or three words, and they have no bearing on the topic in particular at all. The odd one? Thats alright. THe irellevent, but clever or with reason ones? Fine. But a constant barrage of tiny title threads just gets irritating.



If anyone needs any of these explaining, PM or IM me :)






Oh, and if anyone thinks me complaining is hypocritical, Id like to point out Ive halved my average posts per month in recent times. No coincedence :)

[ReaperFett]

while the other could be for serious Roleplay Discussion, with a warning in the description tat hijinks and hijacking are not welcome there. A little lighthearted banter would be okay but turning a topic into something not at all serious when it began as such would be forbidden,
But on whos opinion? Ive seen thread which go PAGES of off topic, and then return at the click of the finger. So did it really go off topic?





We don't seem to have a problem at Meras, and all we do is spam our hearts away.
My one of multi-topic convos happens though. I can logoff at 1AM, check Theta at 9AM, and the topics I was in have ALL been taken over by the same three or four. Now, thats good for them, but what about anyone else?

[TheHolo.Net]

Thread evolution from one topic to another is not what I consider hijacking. I think that most of us with sense can seperate the two. You stated it yourself in one of your points which are all good and have merit.
-When someone posts in a thread with NO relevence to the topic IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Not someone talking about something vaguely relvent. Just those with NO relevence. That is the type of hijacking I mean when I say none should be allowed in the Roleplay Discussion OOC forum as suggested.

And your other points are also things I agree with. That part of why Gue was accused of being a spammer last week or whenever it was. This point right here:
-People who never speak of ANYTHING in particular, or RP, but still amass huge counts.He had nearly 10 topics started on the first two pages of the OOC forum and several of them were two or three word openers that had no real relevance for a topic of discussion. Saying it was spam may not have been the most accurate but it was what we had at the time as per the FAQ.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
My one of multi-topic convos happens though. I can logoff at 1AM, check Theta at 9AM, and the topics I was in have ALL been taken over by the same three or four. Now, thats good for them, but what about anyone else? I think that point would maybe be best approached by having a "Be serious at your own risk" type of attitude, meaning if you post there and expect serious replies and to not have it hijacked to hell you've probably got another thing coming. The Bo forum would be a much mre appropriate place for serious general discussions, at least IMO.

[ReaperFett]

it's not so much serious, its more that I could be talking to, say, you, LD, Taylor and Leeloo in four seperate threads, and return to find posters X, Y and Z have added five pages to all of them, none of which is that relevent.

[TheHolo.Net]

But its not impossible to bring it back on to the topic you were discussing with a post that includes a quote either. :)

[ReaperFett]

Tried and failed so often :)


It doesnt matter so much for me though, but to others could cause them to feela bit alienated. You know when someone goes back to something you spoke about an hour before? You feel a bit like that.




Oh, there's another one:


-People rearrangling swear words so they can be used. If they're filtered, the word is banned, no matter how pretty it looks

[TheHolo.Net]

then perhaps the right approach to take wold be to ask that people not come along andmore or less "interupt" which is the impression I am getting from what you say.

I do understand, but really such thing cannot be logistically controlled without coming off as true dictators. We aren't here to tell people exactly what they can and can't do, we are just here to try and make people get along as best we can, which is a very difficult job. Treating another with respect and accepting their wishes and listening to them is a good step in the right direction.

Edit:
-People rearrangling swear words so they can be used. If they're filtered, the word is banned, no matter how pretty it looksAgreed.

[ReaperFett]

I understand we cant neccesarily MAKE them, but we can "suggest" that one thread would suffice :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

-People who never speak of ANYTHING in particular, or RP, but still amass huge counts.

one of my personal pet peeves, to be sure.

I agree that both a re-vamping of the rules and a steadfast commitment to uphold them (on both parts, mods and mortals...) is a great idea. Would it help to have something that regular posters could put in the title (such as NSP for no spam, please) to make sure that the intent of the thread is kept true? I know some people actually seem to like their threads being hijacked, or like to do this. I won't be self-righteous and say I've never done any irrelivant posts, but it might be nice, as mods, to be able to take justified action in a post marked NSP that has spam in it. Understand what I'm saying? This might help, for the time being until the rules are redone, to separate out who seem to post over and over with no point from people who may have something funny that they think others might enjoy looking at.

Comprende?

[TheHolo.Net]

An NSP tag for such topics in a General OOC posting area is a great idea. :)

Coming up with tags for other things would probably be a good idea too. Like a tag for large images or music files in a post.

[NSP] = No Spam Request
[LIMG] = Large Image(s) in thread (opening post).
[MUS] = Music in the form of mp3, midi or other included in thread (opening post).
[XLINK] = External link included in thread (opening post).
Maybe something like that and/or others that we can think of.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yes, exactly. There could even be a 'please hijack me' tag as well, for people who aren't picky. :D

[TheHolo.Net]

that could be something like [JACK] :lol

[TheHolo.Net]

Okay, here is a recap of what has been discussed so far:

Make OOC into two forums, contained in the one on the index.

General OOC (spam goes here)
Roleplay OOC (RP related topics only)


Stuff to consider for re-working and/or adding into the FAQ/refresher for behavior in the OOC forum(s).

Rules
-People who hijack/flood and gloat about it.

-People who never speak of ANYTHING in particular, or RP, but still amass huge counts.

-When someone posts in a thread with NO relevance to the topic IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Not someone talking about something vaguely relevant. Just those with NO relevance.

-Harassment. I only vaguely remember this, but didn’t Videl used to constantly reply to Jedah or Rama or similar, and NEVER say anything positive, just criticizing? That's wrong. At times, Gue seems to have the same thing following too.

-Multi-thread convos. This is when the same two or three are posting reasonably irrelevant things in multiple threads, when they could make do with the one thread.

-Overuse of non-relevant short thread names. This REALLY gets to me at times. Some posters, no names, seem to constantly start threads with two or three words, and they have no bearing on the topic in particular at all. The odd one? Thats alright. The irrelevant, but clever or with reason ones? Fine. But a constant barrage of tiny title threads just gets irritating.

-People rearranging swear words so they can be used. If they're filtered, the word is banned, no matter how pretty it looks

Topic tags proposed for use in the OOC forum.

[NSP] = No Spam Request (no hijacking)
[LIMG] = Large Image(s) included.
[MUS] = Music in the form of mp3, midi or other included.
[XLINK] = External link included.
[JACK] = Thread Hijacks welcome.
[RP] = Role-Play discussions.

[Nupraptor]

:lol This is starting to remind me of the SA Forums. Not that that's a bad thing. Despite housing some of the rudest people imaginable, there are hardly ever any problems over there.

Ogre: After your explanation that closing the forum was supposed to be a heavy-handed approach, I take back my comment from earlier. People do need to realize that posting is a privelage.

On that note: I was thinking about the possibility of expanding the forums. I've noticed quite a few videogame discussions lately... perhaps me could make a forum in the general category for that. Maybe even add a couple more forums for other things, to attract a broader range of posters.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
On that note: I was thinking about the possibility of expanding the forums. I've noticed quite a few videogame discussions lately... perhaps me could make a forum in the general category for that. Maybe even add a couple more forums for other things, to attract a broader range of posters. I think a vid game forum is an alright idea though slighty risky in the way of causing more mod work. In just the last few days how many times have you had to say "we do not endorse or support piracy" or something similar? Playing devil's advcate here but making a forum just for those types of discussions may make for even more work and less fun for the staff.

[Nupraptor]

It's possible. But I think most people just don't realize that we don't endorse piracy here. If we made it a clearly stated rule for the forum, included in the forum description, it should be fairly well followed, I think.

Also, if you can think of other forums to add, that would be cool, too.

[TheHolo.Net]

Another devil's advocate type of thing to say but...Our main index is already pretty lengthy in size, as in we have a lot of forums already, perhaps we can come up with an alrerady existing forum to house these other topic specific ones we may add.

I think a Cartoon/Anime discussion forum would be welcome around here too, with the DBZ and anime interest many of our RP posters have.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Maybe a.... I dunno, a regular OOC forum where anything goes (well, within reason... you know what I mean) and then one that is just for OOC RP discussions... where a PM just isn't logistically useful.

What about a designated spam-specific forum? I know there are a few (INCREDIBLY ANNOYING erm... I mean...) people who don't RP or discuss anything useful... they seem to clutter up the OOC forum and then RP-related threads get buried.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Ryla Relvinian
Maybe a.... I dunno, a regular OOC forum where anything goes (well, within reason... you know what I mean) and then one that is just for OOC RP discussions... where a PM just isn't logistically useful.

What about a designated spam-specific forum? I know there are a few (INCREDIBLY ANNOYING erm... I mean...) people who don't RP or discuss anything useful... they seem to clutter up the OOC forum and then RP-related threads get buried. Oops I already suggested that but forgot to add it to my recap. ^_^;
------------------------------------
Make OOC into two forums, contained in the one on the index.

General OOC (spam goes here)
Roleplay OOC (RP related topics only)

[Nupraptor]

Yeah, adding any future forums should probably be included as sub-forums. I'm sure we could re-arrange things to look pretty nice, too.


I like most everything suggested.

[TheHolo.Net]

Maybe we could move the Misc forum to the SWFans.Net General section below Portal News, add the subforums there and possibly rename it and revamp its description, leaving a test forum inside?

[TheHolo.Net]

I'm thinking that making two new topics in here, one for each of these discussions (OOC tension sorting and new topic specific forum creation) is a good idea.

[Morgan Evanar]

This is starting to remind me of the SA Forums. Not that that's a bad thing. Despite housing some of the rudest people imaginable, there are hardly ever any problems over there.

You don't see them. In the past couple of months that I've had my account I've seen the mods smack around posters. You don't argue with the mods there. Period. They ban you if they get tired of your stupidity. You give me crap on my server, I ban you. I pay for it. I don't have to put up with your crap, especially since the welcome screen says "Please respect all UN1 and other players."

[Xazor Elessar]

I agree with your views Mr. Net....I think that all that has been discussed here is good.

People really need to chill out. Charley makes a lot of jokes and has a way of pressing people's buttons...but in many ways, its funny. I have been a 'victim' of his jokes too...but I guess no one can out smart a smart-a**. :lol Yeah, everything said there is out of fun and people need to see that...or get used to it if they can't see eye to eye with it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The altering of words to get through the filters needs to stop. I have done it, in the past, and I'll stop doing it, since Tatiana got her post edited by swfans.net for that very reason. You know, in that Soth thread in ooc.

ANYWAY...this is something that ALL the group mods should adhere to. I saw a mod at GJO post the word shiit the other day, with no repercussions. We need to be unfied in also obeying the rules we put in place.

[Marcus Telcontar]

If peole want to BS OOC, point them at Arcan IV forum.

Otherwise...

WTF has gone on here today?!?!?!

On second thoughts, maybe I dont want to know

[Taylor Millard]

That's what I'm wondering...geez working overnights and sleeping 11 hours can be a real hassle sometimes. :lol

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yep, looks like we missd a right beauty.

/me goes back to working on rallycar

[Taylor Millard]

:lol

*Goes back to the radio station. :D

[ReaperFett]

I think a Cartoon/Anime discussion forum would be welcome around here too, with the DBZ and anime interest many of our RP posters have.
But technically, we already HAVE a forum for that. If it's a problem, why not move them?


Make OOC into two forums, contained in the one on the index.

General OOC (spam goes here)
Roleplay OOC (RP related topics only)
I dont know. What if its RP related unimportant things (It isnt spam, I refuse to call it that:)). Sanis has quite often started threads ABOUT Sanis, which are suited for General OOC. Where'd that go?


If peole want to BS OOC, point them at Arcan IV forum.
He's like a cunning salesman :)




Another one. I think that "THis thread has caught the gay" picture that gets shown is offensive and pathetic, and users should be warned on sight.







One thing though. I do feel this should be done very gradually. We dont want a Tudor-ish era wife problem here ("So I must not be married to my wife, so cant divorce her?":)). It needs to be gradual.

IMO, we should start with the things to crack down on, and give that time to develop. THEN AND ONLY THEN should we consider more forums.

[Nupraptor]

But technically, we already HAVE a forum for that. If it's a problem, why not move them?It's not really a problem. I just thought people might like a forum or two devoted to special interests things like games and anime. Hmm... come to think of it, the two subjects could probably share a forum.

[ReaperFett]

But then we'd have "A place to discuss the box office performance of Star Wars and other films, as well as to discuss other topics in general.", and then another forum which can be used for this?




BTW, I added more above :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Oh, read that thread now. Okay WHF is Impliment? You know I have also complletely had it with abuse and agro and windups handed out, to be then claimed as a joke,

"Oh, but learn to take a joke!" "Learn to take critisim!"

:x

NO NO NO. No more of comments and cop outs like that. Not saying it in the first place is a better idea.

[Gav Mortis]

Another one. I think that "THis thread has caught the gay" picture that gets shown is offensive and pathetic, and users should be warned on sight.

I agree, I was going to say something about it in the "Po" thread but didn't want to add to the mix, enough was going on in that one. It's offensive and I don't think even warning is good enough, it shouldn't be used at all. It stereotypes gays with the image and colour then makes homosexuality out to be something awful.


Oh, read that thread now. Okay WHF is Impliment? You know I have also complletely had it with abuse and agro and windups handed out, to be then claimed as a joke,

"Oh, but learn to take a joke!" "Learn to take critisim!"

Anyone who takes the following literally or serious:


Originally posted by IMPLEMENT
BIOLOGICAL DESIGNATION - <font size=4>Z-z-eke</font> YOU WILL SUFFER FOR YOUR INSOLENCE!....///perhapsyoushouldconsider.....re-re-re-reeelaxation aaasss aaa ppprrrooopppeeerrr cccooouuurrrsssee OF_ACTION. STRESS canbenearlyaslethal <u>as -I- am, Insect</u>

Need to get out more. Think about it, you can't even look at it and think it's to be taken literally.

[Taylor Millard]

I don't see a reason to make two different OOC Forums. Didn't we do that with the Shipyards forum and that didn't turn out well. I say we leave it as it is.

If we have problems like whatever happened again...then we consider it. But I wouldn't worry about that.

As for the 'This Thread is Gay' picture. Hey I liked Perfect Strangers...or the one episode I saw I liked :p

[ReaperFett]

"YOU WILL SUFFER FOR YOUR INSOLENCE" is a tad harsh though :)

[imported_Eve]

I don't see a reason for two OOC forums either.

OOC to me, seems to be more, what you would call, GENERAL OOC, then RP OOC right now. I would make the OOC forum, ONLY for OOC interaction between roleplayers, in the sense that it relates to RP, since it is under the subsection "Roleplaying". I mean, that's what OOC implies, doesn't it?

Then I would have a main forum, not under that subsection, but under the General subsection, just called "General Discussion" where all the general discussion goes.

If this board is interested in forums with content that is not Star Wars related, then maybe anime/whatever discussions can be made to be forums, also under the General subsection. But if you get into that, then you could end up having TONS of non-related Star Wars forums. Once people see a forum dedicated to that, then they may have other special interests that they want up there. It could open up another can of worms. But then again, it could be incorporated into General Discussion.

Or all this could go into Miscellaneous. It appears that this forum has the same thing going or it that I was talking about.


*****

On the "Gay" picture - it's offensive and in bad taste, but it's free speech. Since this isn't America, I'd not allow such things (IMO). Being gay has nothing to do with "spam", or anything else for that matter. If we condone that, then we condone racial slurs as well.

[TheHolo.Net]

IF splitting OOC into two forums is not done than we should at least consider implementing the descriptor tags so that serious topics can be easily identifyed amongst the others.

[Taylor Millard]

As in so we know if a thread is RP based or just for fun.

Does VBulletin have a function where you can choose what kind of thread it is?

Like someone could click, "This thread is RP based," or "This thread is for fun"

That sort of thing?

[TheHolo.Net]

No built in feature, but there may be an old hack that I could modify to work with the newer software so that such tags could be selected at topic start.

[Taylor Millard]

K 'cause it'd be tough for me to remember to type, "This is an RP based thread" or "This is a just for the helluvit thread."

But that's just me.

[TheHolo.Net]

Here are the tags suggested so far.
Originally posted by SWFans.Net
Topic tags proposed for use in the OOC forum.

[NSP] = No Spam Request (no hijacking)
[LIMG] = Large Image(s) included.
[MUS] = Music in the form of mp3, midi or other included.
[XLINK] = External link included.
[JACK] = Thread Hijacks welcome.
[RP] = Role-Play discussions.

[Taylor Millard]

Okay so how would we implement them?

Type them?

[TheHolo.Net]

Patience, we need more suggestions and I am looking into the possibility of a forum specific hack. It appears there is one that will do this.

[Taylor Millard]

[MUS] = Music in the form of mp3, midi or other included.

I hate to say it, but I'm not so sure about that one. That's just encouraging (in my opinion) people to post 'pirated' music and such.

I'd be careful to put that up there.


EDIT- Gotcha...patience. I'm just curious is all.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Taylor Millard
[MUS] = Music in the form of mp3, midi or other included.

I hate to say it, but I'm not so sure about that one. That's just encouraging (in my opinion) people to post 'pirated' music and such.

I'd be careful to put that up there.Then it might be best to leave "mp3" out of the definition.

[ReaperFett]

Why the image, sound or link ones? They seem a little pointless

[TheHolo.Net]

Many people don't like opening threads with embedded music files. And many people complain when they open a thread with large images in it.

[ReaperFett]

and how do we class "large"? And whats worse, one 50k picture or six 20k ones?

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by SWFans.Net
Many people don't like opening threads with embedded music files.

How often do we get those? I don't even know how to do that. :lol

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
and how do we class "large"?Large would be something larger than our current limit for a signature, 30 KB.
Originally posted by ReaperFett
And whats worse, one 50k picture or six 20k ones? Both would be on the same level.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Taylor Millard
How often do we get those? I don't even know how to do that. :lol I have edited several topic in OOC in the last few months so that such audio files do not start automatically. So they do happen.

[Taylor Millard]

Okay, point take then. Questions withdrawn. :)

[Sanis Prent]

As far as "the gay" goes, it is a context of vernacular evolution. I call things "gay" all the time. Do I mean to lump these things into terms of homosexuality? No, its taken a meaning that is divergent from another, the same way that homosexuals stole the word in the first place. Try calling an incessantly happy person "gay" now.

At any rate, since this is the first I've heard of any objections to that picture (you guys CAN send me an IM about these things if you like, in the future. I won't eat you) I have taken the image off my webspace. Its a reasonable objection, and thats fine enough for me.

As far as the Implement stuff, if you can't realize that its all in jest from the absolute get-go, then I am not obligated at all to feel sorry for that. Some people can't tell the difference between a joke and an insult. Some people can't exert proper bladder control, and pee their pants in public. Should I buy them man-diapers? No, thats their fault, not my obligation. I can be reasonable (see above), but I'm not going to play the Yes Man.

[Nupraptor]

I have to side with him on the Implement issue. That was obviously a gag. In fact, I've done the same gag in the past, and we all got a good laugh out of it and had a good time. The condescending comments are just part of the persona: No different than when LD uses her Threepio account and goes around, waving her arms about saying "We're doomed!"

I know fully well that this is a different vernacular when he uses the term "gay". But not everyone can expected to understand that. We have an awful lot of people in the 14 year old range that just wouldn't "get" that kind of thing. Or people that may just feel genuinely insulted. Still, I didn't see many complaints about that image in the thread. But I am looking at things post-facto.

[Taylor Millard]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
=We have an awful lot of people in the 14 year old range that just wouldn't "get" that kind of thing.

Which is odd because I know plenty of 15 year olds who say things are 'gay' all the time.

Btw, Charley. IMPLEMENT was hilarious...it's the kiddies who didnt' get it. :lol

[Sanis Prent]

And just so that folks know...its an old, recurring character in actuality. I was posting a round a bit because I was kicking some ideas of how to start a thread with her.

[Taylor Millard]

Not another Borg attack :p ;)

[Admiral Lebron]

I'm 14. I get it. Fourteen year olds aren't as ignorant and naive as you think. Someone who is twelve might not get it but I don't know of two many twelve year old members here, anymore.

[ReaperFett]

Sanis, just to point out, others HAVE used it. IMing you is no use if others use it :)


ANd considering one of the "14 year olds" helped difuse the Avalon thing a bit, I think you should show them a bit mroe respect.

[Gav Mortis]

Sometimes, when I think something is bad in real life, I will say "Oh, that's gay!" but I wouldn't say it in front of a homosexual for the sake of courtesy and caution; they might see nothing wrong with it or on the other hand, may be completely offended by it. What I am trying to say here is, who's to say that there are no members of this community who's sexual orientation is homosexual. Seeing that picture could make them feel bad and I understand that is not your intention, Sanis, others may not.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

It is a fact, there are homosexuals at the board. As long as the pic isn't used anymore, I don't see anything else to discuss. I mean, beyond being courteous in our speech, and what-have-you...

And I dont' think this should be directed only at Sanis. I say things are gay, people everywhere say it. I don't know who would be offended or not. I'm not even sure what my point is.

And IMPLEMENT *is* hilarious. I tried to respond in a similar, tongue in cheek way, but Zeke and Wei weren't biting. In the end it is not a person's age that determines how they will react, but their emotional age.

*runs around waving her arms* We're doomed. ;P

[Gav Mortis]

I am only directing my words at Sanis due to what brought this up, but of course, we are all guilty in some form or another I guess. Like I said, I use the term "gay" to describe things quite casually but when in an environment in which anyone can read what has been said, it's too risky. Naturally, the whole issue applies to everyone and...I am trying to avoid saying "I didn't intend to single anyone out!" I hate that term, it's popping up too much lately.

[Nupraptor]

ANd considering one of the "14 year olds" helped difuse the Avalon thing a bit, I think you should show them a bit mroe respect. It was a generalization, for the sake of making a point. Especially since I'd wager Wei and Zeke are probably around that age. I'm pretty sure I would have gotten it at 14, too.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Again, like LD said... emotional age. I would have gotten it at 14 as well, but then again there are plenty of 35 year olds who are just as obtuse.... :D

[ReaperFett]

Ryla, this is a place where a CAN that spouts utter tripe is considered funny. Mental ages, emotional ages......totally random! :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Wei and Zeke are twins who are 18. So there.

*points at Gav* I will now single you out! ;) Seriously, I know what you mean/meant.

I say we ban the Can. :) j/k

[Admiral Lebron]

Eighteen-- three and three quarters its all the same.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Wow. I feel so lucky I'm no longer an RP mod and don't have to deal with this directly. :)

Which is not to say I'm not trying to think of things that will help. I'm just being funny.

If I come up with anything beyond what's been said, I will let peeps know. This post is mainly to say that I'm keeping track of the situation if you want to talk to me about it.

[imported_Eve]

Hey, well done on the tags. I think it's a great idea. Should help out a bit.

[TheHolo.Net]

Thanks. :)

BTW: It may be worth considering in the future, once people have become accustomed to the topic tags and we have enough to cover all subjects, to implement a feature in his hack that requires the use of a topic tag when starting a thread. This hack does allow for that option.

Hmmm, I may just see about making a little link in new reply and edit thread next to the tag drop down that pops up a little window kind of like the smilies. One that will list the tags and their definitions.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Not a bad idea. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

I have it added to the Geonosis style right now as a button next to the drop down that says "Tag Key". I like it and its handy, but I'm not sure people will know what it is. :\

[Evil Hobgoblin]

One feature I like is that the tag for a particular thread is editable, so that if a thread starts with no tag and gets out of hand, its' owner or a Moderator can alter the tag setting to let people know they need to conform to the thread's purpose.

*Has a handle on a potentially helpful idea.* Ogre, can we make a MOD tag to let Moderators know that a thread needs Moderation?

[TheHolo.Net]

The [HELP] tag might could work for that, but [MOD] may not be a bad idea.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Having a MOD-specific tag would clear up confusion, I think. A lot of the time, people ask for sig or coding assistance, and I think "HELP" would probably be better suited for that.

If you do make a MOD tag, you'd have to make it clear that using it is like calling 911: false alarms are NOT appreciated.

[TheHolo.Net]

The tag and its definition have been added to the announcement, FAQ, and the definition key (pop up window) I am working on.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Excellent. :D

[Ryla Relvinian]

It's red! It's red!

*passes out from the sheer excitement*