OOC Split from - Sunset at Arcan IV (TBH vs GJO)

[Evil Hobgoblin]

(ooc) Erm? How are you blocking with a lightsaber in the middle of a flying kick? Remember, Hob is leaning to one side not far from your leg and you're moving forward. Even if you did manage to bring a blade up from the trailing position you put it in, you wouldn't have the leverage to make it a straight block because Hob is cutting at a diagonal.

I'm thinking a judgement call on this is needed. Any volunteers?

[Zeke]

OOC: I can't see any way to not block and avoid getting cut in half. BTW, once we clear this up, I'll edit this into an IC response to Hob. Hob, get on IM! We can talk about it easier there.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

(ooc) I can't get on AIM, this is a college computer lab where I'm posting, but I will say that Hob doesn't have the leverage to cut you in half. He's leaning to the side and cutting downward. The best he can do is a slice into your hip and limit your mobility, which neither maims nor kills, only injures.

Anywho... I have to go home. I'll be on some tomorrow... we can work on this then.

I'd appreciate it if the OOC posts were left in this thread until the matter gets cleared up because they relate directly to the IC material, but if a Mod or Admin decides to move them, please do me a favor and PM me with a link to the split topic.

Once things get worked out, we can delete/edit these posts and make the thread more continuous.

[Navaria Tarkin]

le split and moved so this can be handle easier here in the OOC forum.

Won't have time to give my two cents :\ hopefully someone else can step in :p

[Gurney Devries]

I have to agree that it seems a little difficult to block in mid-kick, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

[Zeke]

I myself don't care how this is resolved. If someone can tell me how I can defend better, that's fine. If no one can help me think of a better defense, that's fine too, so long as I can take the hit and not get cut in half.

[Robot]

One of the things to know about when up in the air is that you cant change direction and all your momentul is going in certain ways. To get the kick to work properly, you have to also balance and place your hands, else you will go off target.

If your in the air, then you better be sure a sabre is nowhere near you. You a virtually open tartget and this is a RL senario. If the target moves to the other side of your body from where your sabre is, your screwed. You could only respond by sabre if the target says on the side of the body the sabre is on.

Now reading, Zeke's sabre is trailing. No, he doesnt have the time or the momentum to counter Hob, if Hob steps into the kick and attacks from basically below.

Flying kicks against an aware and alert opponent are next to useless. Agaisnt one recovering or about down for the count and unable to counter, that is the only time to use them. Only take to the air if you have a very high degree of success.

[Gurney Devries]

Well, if you're not very skilled in the Force, you could twist in mid-air and escape with a mild burn or two. If you're pretty good with the Force, you could use it to push the saber a bit so it doesn't hit you.

Edit ~ I have to agree with Officer Murphy: A jump kick leaves you pretty open to a counter-attack. Just roll with your punches and you'll manage.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Unlikely. Things are happening too fast. Zeke is caught in a hit me position. If I was Hob, I would go under the kick at then you have a beautifully exposed area to hit.

[Gurney Devries]

I think he can get out of it with a painful wound, but not be cut in twain.

While I have you here, Zeke: How do you make a saber unblockable? Did you make it yourself?

[Zeke]

It belongs to Dios Kane. The saber switches frequencies, and is passes through other laser materials. Since I have to edit the post to take the hit, I doubt if I'll counter in the same post. So...how do fix this so I'm not cut in half? From my understanding Hob's set up is perfect for cutting me in half, unless he sidestepped far enough back to clip me with the tip of it.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Ummm..... I hate to point out that a sabre is not a laser It is a plasma weapon, contained in a magnetic "bottle", to shape and keep the plasma in one place. Frequency shifting isn't going to work.

[Gurney Devries]

Either of the methods I suggested should keep you alive with minor wounds. But feel free to use something different, if you can think of it.

[Zeke]

How bout I try both of Gurney's suggestions? And Marcus, take up the saber thing with Dios. I'm runnin off the info he gave me on the thing. Thanks guys.

[Levi Argon]

Originally posted by Marcus Q'Dunn
Ummm..... I hate to point out that a sabre is not a laser It is a plasma weapon, contained in a magnetic "bottle", to shape and keep the plasma in one place. Frequency shifting isn't going to work.

That isn't fact though, is it. There are a handful of feasible and intelligent explanations as to how a lightsaber might work, that being only one of them. Personally, I dislike the magnetic "bottle" aspect of it, the plasma part I have no problem with however I'll look up the website I read, it contains an entire section on lightsaber technology.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

If I remember correctly, the bottle theory is the most approved of on this site nevertheless that is not to say it is the way lightsabers work for there are seven interesting explanations here.

[Gurney Devries]

The energy is formed into a tight, parallel beam of coherent packets. These packets are emitted through a positively-charges, continuous energy lens which projects the packets away from the lightsaber. The packets are almost immediately attracted back to the lightsaber by a negatively-charged, high-energy flux aperature, and then continually recycled to create the glowing blade. The packets are recycled by a superconductor back into the power cell for re-energizing. The entire process is completely contained. No energy is lost, since the light in the blade is recaptured. No heat is generated, either. The only energy loss occurs when the blade strikes an object.
http://www1.theforce.net/CUSWE/entries.asp?page=7&search=L

Yeah... it didn't make much sense to me, either. :p

In all seriousness: I consider the Unofficial SW Encyclopedia on TF.N to be one of the largest and most accurate sources of SW info available, and am willing to believe this explanation.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

One thing I need to state is that Hob's lightsaber is shorter than average in order to help him maintain its' balance. When he performs a move like the one I described where he doesn't have enough balance to ensure a good strike, he is likely to make a midrange incision cut only.

To put it in Lightsaber Form terms, what is happening here is essentially shiim, a mark of contact that is neither decisive nor overly impairing, but it's still gonna hurt like heck.

Edit: GAH! This computer is making me grumpy. It posted too soon.

Anywho- the matter being cleared up, I want to thank the peeps who put forth their two cents. Now, on with the show! :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Sourced from Star Wars - The Visual Dictoionary

"Lightsabres tend to follow a similar basic structure, although are very individualised by their Jedi builders. While the pure energy blade has no mass, the electromagetically generated arc wave generates a strong gyroscopic effect..."

Goes on to describe "tightly controlled arc-wave energy". Thence it is not a laser. The guiding principle is magnetic energy, used to control and shape the blade. It's definantly magnetic in nature, hence the positive and negatives. The plasma model has one advantage over others - it exists in fusion rectors and it's onvevably possible, if we know how to contain the magnetics and the plasma fields well enough. Oh, and have a power source that is capable of creating the magnetics. Rather large problems, but the possibilty exists if you are able to do that, to create a real lightsabre.

[Gurney Devries]

The thing is, Star Wars isn't completely grounded in factual science. Like when were having the discussion about hyperdrives: In the real world, it is not possible to travel faster than the speed of light without somehow folding the fabric of space (even then, you're not really travelling faster than the speed of light - only covering a great distance faster). But that, apparently, isn't how it works in SW.

Just playing the Devil's Advocate here.

From what I gather, the blade is a series of magnetically charged energy packets. Which could help to explain why cortosis shuts down the saber: All it has to do is disrupt the steady flow of packets and it shuts down.

I don't think it's possible to create a saber that's unblockable. At least, not in the way described. An interesting idea may be to reverse the polarities in the blade. The lightsaber would still function, but it would have a real interesting effect when it struck another saber: possibly causing both sabers to shut down, drawing all the power from the saber it struck, or even having all the energy inside go haywire.

For the record, I don't think anyone under the level of a master could build something like that.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Well one thing I would agree with you - it's not possible to make an unblockable sabre. And special effects sabres would have to built by Masters, it's hrd enough to create one, let alone a phase shifter or a new design.

[Zeke]

As I said: It's Dios' saber, and I'm going on the information he's told me about it. If you have a problem with the saber, go PM him.

[Figrin D'an]

I hate to break this to you, but if you want to believe those definitions, you'll need to define a completely different set of physical laws, because they sure as hell won't work in our universe.

First of all,

"The entire process is completely contained. No energy is lost, since the light in the blade is recaptured. No heat is generated, either. The only energy loss occurs when the blade strikes an object."

If all light is recaptured in the process of creating the blade, you wouldn't be able to it. Wavelengths of light in the visible spectrum must escape for the optic nerves to perceive them. On top of that, if a lightsabre is to "cut" any object, there has to be energy transfer.

Input + Generation = Output + Accumulation + Consumption

In any system, the laws of conservation of energy state that both sides of the equation must balance, whether the system is enclosed or not. If a system is enclosed, and there is no energy transfer outside of the "lightsabre loop," there can be no external effect by the sabre on it's surroundings (ie. no cutting, slicing, burning, etc.)

If this is the case, and "The only energy loss occurs when the blade strikes an object," then a) there is absolutely no advantage to having a lightsabre as opposed to a metallic bladed weapon, b) the sabre will not burn/cauterize flesh on contact and c) the sabre could not pass through objects as easily as shown in any of the films.

If the "plasma" is to cut anything, there is heat transfer. Plain and simple.

Another minor nitpick... heat is a form of energy... thermal energy...


Next... magnetic fields...

If a magnetic field is used to contain the "plasma," it better be non-polarized, because with a the sheer intensity of the field needed to contain superheated plasma, the user would end up constantly dodging flying metallic objects if it weren't. It would need to be a donut shape, as is found in a tokamak, except very thinly stretched. The amount of energy needed to create that level of field strength is pretty insanely high for a unit that is supposed to fit inside a 2-3" diameter cylinder. While it might be possible, say when humanity becomes a Type 3 civilization, it would be colossally impractical.

Which brings me to the next point. If the blade is contained superheated plasma, the blade is made of matter. It will have mass. Perhaps not much, but it will... and it then cannot be an pure energy. One or the other...



I could go on... but most of you probably don't care.

Lightsabres, as defined by the Visual Dictionary, TF.N, fans, or Lucas himself, violate the laws of thermodynamics. Change the definition, accept certain concepts like Conservation of Matter, and Conservation of Energy, then account for things like entropy and fugacity, and you might have a working theory. But, trying to explain them, as defined, using existing physical convention, is an exercise in futility.

[Gurney Devries]

I hate to break this to you, but if you want to believe those definitions, you'll need to define a completely different set of physical laws, because they sure as hell won't work in our universe
Lightsabres, as defined by the Visual Dictionary, TF.N, fans, or Lucas himself, violate the laws of thermodynamicsI'm not arguing with you. As I said:
Star Wars isn't completely grounded in factual science.Generally speaking, we try to stay as true to the source material as we can, mostly to prevent arguments over how something works. Even if it doesn't necessarily make sense.

[Figrin D'an]

I actually was busy typing my post when you made your last post, Gurney, and didn't see it until after I was finished. So, it wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was more to make a general point.


That's what happens when one gets distracted by TV and phone calls... it takes waaaaaay to long to make a sizable post.... :x