I hate to do this but...

[Taylor Millard]

Can I get a mod to read over this thread...it's late and I'm tired.

Is everything all right with it so far? Mainly the last few posts.

I'm talking all of hte posts, including mine.

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23356&pagenumber=2

[TheHolo.Net]

Wonders if a Moderator will help with this...

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yeah, not a RP mod, but anyone silly enough to go to Bast without a good deal more firepower deserves what they get.

[TheHolo.Net]

I hate to be a downer, but I’m a little disappointed with some of the RP Mods as of late. This topic sat all day yesterday with no response from any of them and then there was the issue with Gue and Slayn last night.

I know there were some mods not around yesterday or last night, but I also know there were some that were. Would those that were around rather just be regular posters who have not accepted any community responsibility, or could you please accept the responsibility you have and actually do some things rather than waiting for someone else to come along and do it for you?

Its not like it’s a full time job or anything, yet I always seem to get the bulk of the work when it comes to moderating and administrating. I can honestly only think of one other RP mod that actually performs their duties on a regular consistent basis right off the top of my head and find it far from fair that we have others who don’t help her with moderation duties when they are around and available to do so.

=\

[Morgan Evanar]

I have no idea what to do with that thread. I can't be unbiased regarding Gue, simply because I feel he's a total waste of space and a dolt.

[Ryla Relvinian]

You said it, not me. :D

[ReaperFett]

My fault. Most mods arent around a lot, I just didnt check it.


I was moderating as such though, deleting posts and the like.

[Taylor Millard]

And I would have made a comment about it, but since I was in the thread at the time I didn't feel it right for me to make any comment about it since I was in the thread.

[TheHolo.Net]

My comments were directed at RP mods not RP group mods. One of them has replied to his thread, but still none have addressed the original request of this topic. Hello?

[Taylor Millard]

I know they were...my apologies.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was glad Firebird jumped into that thread...I had Slayn talking to me on AIM, and Gue as well, in different windows, and I just said, "You know what? I'm not an RPing mod, so anything I say is just my opinion and nothing more."

I did tell Gue that he was basically committing character suicide by blowing up his only means of escaping from Bast.

And I told Slayn that a more appropriate "we can't kill Gue" strategy would be to capture him, strip him naked (no communication equipment nothing) and let him go on the far side of the planet. He'd just stay there forever. Until he died of "natural" causes.

Anyway..I agree, RPing mods...wake up! Gue told me that the RP Mod told him to go away. *shrug*

[Master Yoghurt]

I am deeply sorry about that Mr SWFans. I did a major upgrade of my computer last weekend, building a new box all from scratch, and as a consequence there has been less time for checking the forums frequent enough, especially for the last few days. Yesterday, I was playing Battle Field 1942 until late at night, and then worked early in the morning today, thus I did not notice this or the other threads. Not sure, but I might have visited just briefly yesterday, without seeing those threads, thus I would probably be on the "who was online today" list. I am currently concidering if it might be the best to resign and let someone who is available to monitor threads on a more regular consistent basis take over. Not that I dont want to work on keeping this place a live growing community - on the contrary. However, I have always been of the opinion that a moderator position is a duty rather than a privelege, and that there is a great responsibility that comes together with it. Consequently, those who are best fit to do the job at any time, should have those positions.

As for the roleplay thread in question, I did speak to Millard recently, and I will have to agree with him the way Gue evaded the concussion missiles could have been handled in a more realistic manner, especially in regards to the damage taken. Concidering such missiles have a wide explosive range, it would be reasonable to assume there were some substantial amount of injury involved, caused by the blast. On the other hand, I reflect Firebird's concerns about Slayne Cloak's last post. Some edits and slight rewordings from both parties would be helpful in order to reach a conclusion of the thread with a minimum amount of OOC headaches for the involved.

[TheHolo.Net]

I’m not asking for any resignations just some support. Thank you for offering your understanding of what it means to you to be a moderator and also thank you for helping with the original topic of this thread.

My concerns regarding other moderators were not so much aimed at yourself, pierce, or Navaria. All of whom I knew were not around last night at least not for any extended period of time.

I have my suspicions who the mod is that Gue told Ld said to him “go away” but would prefer to hear that person’s side of the story before taking that second hand comment as a fact, because hearsay is not fact and the situation may not have been as reported, especially since I have heard other things second hand from Gue that do not reflect the most truthful of circumstances.

Once again, thank you for your help. I’m sure Taylor appreciates it as I know I do.

[Taylor Millard]

In regards to Slayn's post...it (Slayn's post) will either have to be deleted or the thread closed until further notice. Slayn has recently said his 'Net connection is now spotty at best and he won't be able to post as often as he would like.

And I do appreciate the help. Thank you, both of you.

[ReaperFett]

My concerns regarding other moderators were not so much aimed at yourself, pierce, or Navaria
Why not just say who it's aimed at, it works faster

[TheHolo.Net]

A look at recent posting times and such makes it look as if Sanis/Diego was the only one around last night while the issue with Gue/Slayn progressed, possibly not from the start but when it was just heating up.

[ReaperFett]

Doesnt mean he was on the thread though, does it? How long has this thread been here? I managed to miss it.

[TheHolo.Net]

How about a question for you?
Originally posted by ReaperFett
My fault. Most mods arent around a lot, I just didnt check it.


I was moderating as such though, deleting posts and the like. Why didn't you reply to the subject of this thread after you had obviously seen it?

[ReaperFett]

Because I was on page 2 of Destiny's Way, and was taking a quick board scan.

[Taylor Millard]

delete please sorry

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Because I was on page 2 of Destiny's Way, and was taking a quick board scan. Yet in the last 24 hours you have had time to make 117 posts at Meras. Somehow I find that answer to be a poor excuse. How about the truth instead of beating around the bush?

[Sanis Prent]

Ok, I'm here. My apologies if I didn't check out their thread, as I wasn't in a mind to read it. Not to mention, Gue's got a way of incessantly badgering in a manner that isn't one of someone that needs help. I honestly don't remember what I said.

Between getting kicked in the everloving teeth with the vamp/GJO thread, and some other things, forgive me if I've been a bit slow on such things.

[Nupraptor]

I looked over the thread in question when I saw this post. I only glanced over it and, at the time, I didn't see anything wrong. I was going to post saying so, but I figured it would be better to wait on someone else. That way, I didn't say "hey, looks fine to me" and then have someone else come along and point out something blatantly obvious I missed. Yes, my fault for skimming the thread.

I was away for about a month. Since I'm here again, I'll try to be more on top of things.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Ok, I'm here. My apologies if I didn't check out their thread, as I wasn't in a mind to read it. Not to mention, Gue's got a way of incessantly badgering in a manner that isn't one of someone that needs help. I honestly don't remember what I said.

Between getting kicked in the everloving teeth with the vamp/GJO thread, and some other things, forgive me if I've been a bit slow on such things. I can accept that as an honest reply, considering I have been there with the Vamps and have seen Gue's attitude towards authority when "requesting help". Thank you for the explanation.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
I looked over the thread in question when I saw this post. I only glanced over it and, at the time, I didn't see anything wrong. I was going to post saying so, but I figured it would be better to wait on someone else. That way, I didn't say "hey, looks fine to me" and then have someone else come along and point out something blatantly obvious I missed. Yes, my fault for skimming the thread.

I was away for about a month. Since I'm here again, I'll try to be more on top of things. I'm just trying to make sure that we have a true team spirit here. As of late I have been feeling overloaded and singled out as the workhorse for moderating duties, which I feel there are more than enough moderators appointed for them to be able to do the duties without my having to step away from administrative duties and assistance to perform.

I like to try and have fun around here too and pulling so much double duty makes it very difficult. I'm not saying that I don't want to do it at all, because I would have just tossed my hands up in the air and said hasta if I didn't care or want to at all.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*understands the workhorse feeling* :x

[Sanis Prent]

I neglected to mention, I had about 10 Newcastles last night, and tonight, I've been suckling from a keg :(

So if it impairs my judgment, such is life :(

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
I neglected to mention, I had about 10 Newcastles last night, and tonight, I've been suckling from a keg :(

So if it impairs my judgment, such is life :( Ah ha! So the complete truth comes out! Shame on you. :p

Kidding, but I do thank you for the cold hard truth and completeness. :)

[ReaperFett]

Yet in the last 24 hours you have had time to make 117 posts at Meras. Somehow I find that answer to be a poor excuse. How about the truth instead of beating around the bush?
Let's analyse this. 117 posts of which never take any time.

Now, how many times did I post here? Let me help you. Not that much. I also barely posted at TF.N either. You know, the two where I generally have the longer discussions. Coincedental eh?

And then, despite all that, I still bothered to delete the posts of some character looking like Christina Richie (May have been the night before though), and delete some posts that were talking about Oral Sex. Why? Because people came to me. I was asked to moderate, and did. So I missed the long one, what's the problem with that? So did others.

But hey, like you care. You've already decided I'm a liar.


I can accept that as an honest reply, considering I have been there with the Vamps and have seen Gue's attitude towards authority when "requesting help".
Oh, so if my opinion was I dont like Gue, that would be fine?

[Master Yoghurt]

I dont think he wants to single out anyone, just stating the obvious; there are 6 roleplay moderators, and no one replied.

[ReaperFett]

Doesnt want to single out anyone, but automatically discounts most of them and then calls one a liar. Doesnt sound that way.

[Master Yoghurt]

Well, he did not excactly call you a liar, just hinting that judging by the posting activity, it would appear the explaination might seem somewhat inaccurate, and that is why he asked for some clarificaton, which you now have sufficiently provided, IMO :)

[ReaperFett]

He said I wasnt telling the truth. That makes me a liar.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Let's analyse this. 117 posts of which never take any time.

Now, how many times did I post here? Let me help you. Not that much.Yet your recent post list from Meras shows that the majority of those posts that "never take any time" occurred over the course of eleven hours. How difficult is it to say, I didn't check here, or I didn't want to spend the time (which probably would have been all of 15 minutes), or even include an apology?
Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
I am deeply sorry about that Mr SWFans.
Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Ok, I'm here. My apologies if I didn't check out their thread, as I wasn't in a mind to read it.Instead you piss and moan at me about me beating around the bush, then put words in my mouth that aren't there, and then focus on small points to try and color this some kind of witch hunt or something towards Gue, or hell if I know. Sorry dude, but these do not seem to be the actions of a team player to me. These seem to be the actions of an individual who cares more about pointing out the flaws of others and trying to divert from the situation, admitting no responsibility.

Tell me, do you think being a RP moderator entails responsibility to the community members? Or do you just think it some clique type status symbol that sets you above everyone else? Because only listening to the requests of individuals in PM or IM only goes so far. The majority of the moderating I have done around here for the last year has almost all been done by me keeping an eye on things, and caring enough about the community to take the responsibility on my shoulders with self motivation and desire, not someone riding my tail to do it. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Do I admit those mistakes and apologize? Yes.

Sorry to be such an Ogre about this, but I really find it difficult to believe that you spent 11 hours posting 117 times at the Meras forums yesterday but couldn't put a broken into segments 15 minutes into this issue and offer an opinion to help the members of this community who did request it. You were here, you saw it after I mentioned my disappointment, and you made that obvious. Why not just come out and say I didn't want to do it. Its not a thing I find enjoyable, or something more believable than paltry excuses about time, when evidence points to the contrary?

(time to write this post = 7 minutes)

[TheHolo.Net]

All I want from my rants here is for our staff to understand, accept, and own up to the responsibilities they took on when they greed to be moderators for the RP section. That’s all. I’m not here to call you a liar. I’m here to try and promote a team spirit and cooperative effort. That’s it really.

[Navaria Tarkin]

I need to stop getting sick. Because everytime that I do get sick ... stupid stuff happens around here :(

[Nupraptor]

(innoculates her) :)

[TheHolo.Net]

You know what? Its been a stressful few days for me, as I stated in my first big reply in this thread, I was feeling a bit like the workhorse when it comes to moderation duties. It affected my responses here in a negative way most likely, and for that I apologize.

Fett, I heard second hand today that you mentioned that one of your reasons for not replying to the original request in this topic was due to stress or whatnot from a busy week at the University, and I wish you had included that in your initial response. That’s an understandable reason which I would have immediately accepted.

I try to be honest and open and I hope to get the same in return. That is that....situation resolved. No hard feelings from my end and hopefully there aren't any from yours.

I would also like to say thank you for assisting in moderating the topic in the GJO forums where it became a “lets flame the entire staff at SWFans” fest. Thanks for the job well done.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I would also like to say thank you for assisting in moderating the topic in the GJO forums where it became a “lets flame the entire staff at SWFans” fest. Thanks for the job well done.

Likewise, let me add that as well. Maybe I could have been politer to Gue, but I just so have had enough of him. I'm just simply not in the mood to tolerate what I initially saw as an attempt to continue something from SWFans he had already been warned about.

Soth is also skating on thin ice with me. I noted whom was doing the majority of bashing nd had a closer look who it was. I take an even dimmer view of someone using other accounts to hide who they are to do their critisims. I also take a dim view of dragging other people into things like this, when clearly its an issue for Gue to query, not Soth. This stinks of TSE tatics and I am just soooooo over those as well

And yes, your quite right Ogre as you said elsewhere. OOC life is suckitude. I probably should not post when feeling angry and ready to kick teeth in.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Easy!!!!!

You guys and dolls gotta chill. How much help is it when, in a discussion about a contentious point, another contentious point arises? First things first: has the situation in question been resolved? Worry about localizing responsibility when it's finished.

I do agree with Ogre's point about the administration's collective body needing to work together and present a unified opinion to the public, and always have. As such, it might be wise to come to a kind of group decision before posting on it.

By the way, Ogre, is there a way to set up a system though which a poster can request moderation on a particular topic and have something be automatically mailed or posted to the forum Moderators in question? It might help single out areas for action by the Moderators before they become hotspots.

[Morgan Evanar]

I don't check every forum in the GJO every day. If someone had dropped me an IM I would have looked into the thread.

[Figrin D'an]

After I got back on Sunday, that thread at GJO was one of the first things that caught my eye... it seems as if those kind of things happen whenever I leave for a few days.. :\


The levels of stress amongst most of us are pretty high right now. Unfortunately, so many people will use the slightest slip of emotional control as a rally cry to criticize the staff and claim "oppression" and "censorship." It was just a week ago maybe that Charley posted something reminding everyone that the admins and mods are people too. How quickly such things are forgotten, or worse yet, ignored entirely.

[Nupraptor]

Quite frankly, this board is far more lenient on it's policies than any other one I've visited. The posters here are spoiled, IMHO.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

*Wince.* Okay, I accidentally posted to the GJO thread after it'd been locked. Which, I thought I couldn't do with this name, but still. Rather than simply delete my response, which might have looked suspicious to anyone watching, I edited it to let people know I hadn't realized the thread was closed.

Anyways... how is everybody?

[Morgan Evanar]

The posters here are extrodinarily spoiled. You're a big enough asshat other places and irritate the admins and mods, you usually end up banned elsewhere.

Gue and Soth pull another stunt and I'm banning them at GJO. They're just inflamatory, trying to draw attention to themselves.

[Sanis Prent]

Gue perhaps, but I don't think Soth warrants a banning. He just needs to work on communication between his brain and his fingers. He's rational enough, when he's led through to connect the dots.

[Morgan Evanar]

Really? Then why has he done almost the same thing twice at GJO? The dots have been presented in vibrant, true color aided by Dolby Digital sound.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Only twice? No, it's more than that. Twice while we have been here, add to that the godmoding incidents, plus the other thread where he bagged out everyone when the Jedi got up in arms about second said moding.... plus a religious slam he would have been banned for if it was targeted at anyone else other than my wife (That time, I believed that it would look bad if I had taken what was some very, very justifiable action). Hell, his actions havent changed since we were at server1 at ezboard.

No, he has a clear and consistent pattern, done over years.

[imported_Eve]

I was going to say what Bri did (this morning, only I was having to leave for work). Is there some way to alert people when things need moding?

Like PM notification. People post requests, or mods post to forum mods, and all mods get a PM pop-up immediately.
Like e-mail notification - just like the news portal mods have.
Like a chat room (like the ones at Meras) moded by MODS - when peeps are here, they sit in there. Maybe its open to the public to pop in and request stuff. If no one is there, then they can PM the respective mod for whatever forum they are in.
Other than that, peeps can just IM a mod when they see something.

Ogre, if you're seeing something, just contact that particular mod. It's their job anyway. DELEGATION IS YOUR FRIEND.

One other thing I would suggest, and I don't know what you all think about it, but anyway... I would have certain names for mods, instead of people's regular nics. Like - when Ogre is admining, he posts as "SWFans.Net". He RPs as Ogre. Mods would be "Moderator 001" or something like that. It shows you that a "Moderator" is online, and working. It's also more professional, and more likely to get used by people who don't know that certain names are mods (like newbies). We still elect certain mods, by their known name, but once they're elected or appointed no one knows who is behind the mod name. A mod mods, so who cares who is behind the name. The staff will know, so if mistakes are made, they can be pointed out as such, etc. As cheesy as it sounds, people may be less likely to flame the person (by their biases) and stay on topic when dealing with certain issues. By wearing the Mod name, mods may even act more professional too.

Just an idea.

[TheHolo.Net]

There is a "Report" button within posts that will allow a user to contact moderators/administrators in a bulk fashion, directing them to a specific post or topic, but I have yet to see it used on these forums.

[Admiral Lebron]

I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Perhaps we should inform the masses on what they can do to contact moderation, especially with the influx of n00bs.

[imported_Eve]

Well there ya go.

[TheHolo.Net]

There is an inherent problem with the report system. A mod that replies to the notification is not aware if another mod already has unless its obvious in the topic or been announced somehow.

[Admiral Lebron]

Have a thread in here dealing with the subject?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Gue as a Mod = A very scary thing.

Just my 2 credits... But is this moderator nomination thingie gonna be with or without your (or the rest of the mods) final say?

[TheHolo.Net]

Not all of the candidates will become mods. The vote will be kept fair and the community members will chose. Whatever the vote results yield will be accepted.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Fair enough.

[Nupraptor]

I actually like Eve's idea, and I think it warrants further attention. Giving the Moderator's non-descript names sounds like a really good idea. It might be a hassle for the people to switch accounts back and forth, however. Still, if we all adhere to it, it might work well. We could set up several Mod accounts. Each one should have PMs enabled, with both E-Mail notification and PM Pop-ups enabled.

[Morgan Evanar]

I like it too.

[TheHolo.Net]

I already do it more or less, but I'm cool with it. :p It can be impersonal or personal IMO, meaning that the chosen mod (in uniform) type name can include something that identifies the individual as well as identifying them as a mod. Up to the Mod I would say.

Something like

Moderator - Charley
Moderator - Dale

or something similar or even not. Whatever everyone decides works for me.

[Nupraptor]

Well, I think the point of her suggestion was to make it as impersonal as possible, so people can't point fingers or accuse the Mod in question of being biased when they're performing their duties. It'll get the point across that, when a Mod makes a decision, it's the decision of a staff member, not "that person who just doesn't like me".

[TheHolo.Net]

Ooops, I see now. ^_^;

Nevermind my last suggestion then. heh

[Nupraptor]

I think the main difficulty with that is that we'd have to have all of the staff, or at least the majority of them, agree to it. If there's only one person doing that, then it defeats the purpose.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
Well, I think the point of her suggestion was to make it as impersonal as possible, so people can't point fingers or accuse the Mod in question of being biased when they're performing their duties. It'll get the point across that, when a Mod makes a decision, it's the decision of a staff member, not "that person who just doesn't like me". That being the case Nup, they should probably be accounts registered to you or I at first and then assigned to each mod with a change of email and PW as given out, if this idea goes forward.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
I think the main difficulty with that is that we'd have to have all of the staff, or at least the majority of them, agree to it. If there's only one person doing that, then it defeats the purpose. Agreed. But only in so much as the RP Forum mods. Group mods can do their own thing as they see fit, whether they chose to do this type of thing or not.

[Nupraptor]

The main reason I think this would be a good idea is because moderating this place has become a bit of a hassle. Practically every time a thread gets closed, a virtual riot breaks out. I think this may help alleviate the situation.

Also, if we do go ahead with this, we'll have to make users aware that it's against the rules to attempt to impersonate a Moderator. Because I just know that some knucklehead is bound to register an account like "SWFans.net Moderator" to try and fool people.

[TheHolo.Net]

Good point. User titles will be a dead giveaway.

[Morgan Evanar]

I really see two main ways you can play this.

One is going with more anymous moderator/adminship. Register AIM accounts to match the names, and MSN too. (Yet another reason to use Trillian!). There are downsides to this, but I'm having a lot of difficulty being articulate.

Two is to cut the bs. Of couse, being as I am, I'd be really fond of this. Spades get called spades and people who step too far out of line get hell.

I think combining the two would be kind of dangerous. A lot of people might find it "abusive".

Sometimes, being a jerk works.

[imported_Eve]

I don't see any argumentation possible in many cases of mod/member debate on mod actions. Many of these issues aren't up for debate, and never were. We always have the rules (which are agreed to when registering) to call on.

Consistency is the key to success.

I think if the membership isn't, on the whole, aware of which mod is which, they will be more conforming, and less likely to start the "the mods are so unfair; the mods only like their friends; blah blah" bandwagon.

I wouldn't associate names with the Moderator title.

Maybe these names can be variable:
SWFMod Alpha
SWFMod01
SWFModAA
SWFMod-Whatever

Maybe we can keep a list of who is who, in here, as a sticky topic or something. Maybe you can even rotate names, or switch themes every few months to alleviate the possibility of the membership learning who is who. Cuz sooner or later, by word of mouth, people will know that, say, Charley is Mod # 12 or something.

[Figrin D'an]

Account rotation might be a good idea, if an efficient system can be worked out for exchanging them. In some cases, users may be able to discern the person behind a particular mod ID simply from writing style, or certain catch phrases or words that a given mod may commonly use.

Either that, or all of the mods/admins would have to agree that all posts using staff accounts must be kept dry and concise, and/or follow certain protocols.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Is there a way to mask the name of a poster? I mean... is there a way for a mod to post with their name but have a box to click that just replaces it with "Moderator" ? That way, you wouldn't need differend accounts.

[Nupraptor]

Maybe you can even rotate names, or switch themes every few months to alleviate the possibility of the membership learning who is who. Cuz sooner or later, by word of mouth, people will know that, say, Charley is Mod # 12 or somethingYes, I was thinking the same thing.
Either that, or all of the mods/admins would have to agree that all posts using staff accounts must be kept dry and concise, and/or follow certain protocols.That was the basic idea. Posts under Moderator accounts must be as professional as possible. All posts made under such accounts reflect on the whole staff, so it should encourage everyone to choose their words carefully.
Is there a way to mask the name of a poster? I mean... is there a way for a mod to post with their name but have a box to click that just replaces it with "Moderator" ? That way, you wouldn't need differend accounts.I'm sure that it would be possible to hack this in, but it wouldn't work very well. The person's member number, for example, would still be the same.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ah ha. Well, it was a random thought.

I, personally, like the idea of faceless mods... both for freedom of speech on their part (i.e. being able to act out the appropriate judgement without fear of being called unfair) and from posters who see (and rightly so, IMO) favoritism from the mods... Yeah.

[Morgan Evanar]

You could create one mod account, but I guess multiple logins might not be supported.

I don't see how the member number thing is an issue if you batch the accounts and make them in one shot.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Good old Eve always thinks one step further than I do. :)

Let's think the Mod-mask thing through.

*Thinks.*

Aside from the problems of Moderators being lazy and/or not switching Mod-mask accounts every so often, I can't really find a problem with the system. Yes, it's possible to discern who a person is from they're typing style- I do it all the time with new characters :) - and I think someone like Charley would be a dead giveaway. But regardless, the anonymity has merit.

There is a potential downside- people might see you as even more of a "dictatorship", trying to hide behind a Mod-mask in order to rule with an iron fist. I think you'll either have to state right away that you're doing just that (this is a privately operated board, after all) or you'll have to moderate on a more lenient level from behind said Mod-masks.

I think, what it boils down to, is how much authority the administration decides it needs to enact.

Thus spaketh the diplomat. :)

BTW, Ogre, I received your PM but this computer connection is really jumpy tonight. I shall try and reply tomorrow.

[imported_Eve]

To speak to your concerns about people thinking its more of a dictatorship this new way...

... is that possible? They bitch and moan anyway. If it doesn't work, it doesn't, but I don't see how the griping would be increased this way.

[Nupraptor]

You could create one mod account, but I guess multiple logins might not be supportedMultiple accounts allow us to keep track of who posted what much more easily than checking IPs on each post. Plus, it lets the general populous know that we do have several mods, and not just one.
I don't see how the member number thing is an issue if you batch the accounts and make them in one shot. No, no... what I said was in response to Ryla's suggestion: If you had a way of just masking the user name when you post, if you were to click on that person's profile, it would still have the same user number (for example: If I had made this post and hit a little checkbox to mask the name I was posting under, when you clicked on my profile, it would still say "Userid=2"). All it would change is the name displayed.
There is a potential downside- people might see you as even more of a "dictatorship", trying to hide behind a Mod-mask in order to rule with an iron fist. I think you'll either have to state right away that you're doing just that (this is a privately operated board, after all) or you'll have to moderate on a more lenient level from behind said Mod-masks.That's probably the main consideration right now. Because the purpose of proposing this isn't to have more lenient moderatorship, but so we can better enforce the rules already in place without being hassled about it.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

I know it doesn't seem like its' possible, but remember- anything's possible.

To start, I look at how it would look to your average person who's just joining the board. A faceless yet active administration can seem pretty intimidating, and it is possible to increase the average paranoia of your joining participant, while at the same time appearing to give those already actively speaking against the administration a seeming leg to stand on.

I can hear the new catch phrase now: "Why don't you use your real account and tell me that?"

Back on topic: it's all about appearances. This is a move to take the power of public moderator identity away from the average poster with good reason. But if someone's wearing a mask, you can't tell who it is. If a particular moderator is particularly harsh in one situation, then the entire administration gets the label of bad guy, from Ogre on down, instead of just one person.

And that, dear, can be very bad indeed.

[Figrin D'an]

The perception of an "increased dictatorship" might be a chance that you'll just have to take. The worst that can happen is that some people get ticked off and leave. As much as losing posters is not something that anyone wants to see, it may be an unfortunate side effect to a necessary action. If it takes that perception amongst some to ensure that the rules, as laid out in the FAQ, are enforced... well, it either comes to doing just that, or throwing the rules out the window. Either one has consequences that must be faced.

[Nupraptor]

If a particular moderator is particularly harsh in one situation, then the entire administration gets the label of bad guy, from Ogre on down, instead of just one person.Actually, that's one of the reasons why I thought this might be a good idea. It would encourage each of the moderators (myself included) to take their time, think things through, and act as professionally as possible when handling a situation. Because the acts of one person will reflect on the entire staff.

Still debating whether or not it's a good idea. It all boils down to whether or not the pros outweigh the cons.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I am in favor of this masking, coupled with a cautionary note. While people do make things up about the mods here some of their various quabbles do have a bit of founding. I think, and this is just IMHO, that some of the mods need to be slower to lash out... not that the action didn't need to be taken, mind you, but just so there is nothing to squabble over later... ya dig? A simple, calm, "such and such action has been taken because..." with no anger behind it. Makes the world a nicer place for all of us. :D

[Nupraptor]

Point taken. Again, I think this would actually help with that by forcing us to act completely professional.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Nup: Heh. Well, we'll see if it does have that effect indeed. I hope my "Pro and Con description" helped shed additional light on the subject for those who are making the decision. Or am I supposed to be one of those? I can't tell.

That reminds me... I need to respond to Ogre's PM.

[Admiral Lebron]

Will this affect all mods or just like the RP mods?

[Morgan Evanar]

RP mods.

[imported_Eve]

Why just RP? Cause they bitch the most? LOL.

If you're gonna do it, I'd say be uniform across the SWForum forums. GJO, Ciz, SFF, TSO, etc., make their own decisions.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If the mods could be more professional and less "hot-headed" or what have you, we wouldn't need to hide their names.

I don't know that I think this is a good idea. It could be, if used well, but the RPers might very well see this as cowardice, and another ploy to get everyone else "in line with the clique." <---not what I would say, but "them."

But, on the other hand, it could work very well. So. I don't think I had any new points. :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

The problem is, the "clique" is not the moderators. If Ogre banned Gue justly, you would have a howling deverish from the Shrine crying out all sorts of crap. The same would go with Soth. You could do it all correctly and totally above board and yet, you watch and see what the result would be. Accusations will fly and more OOC nonsense. Even if you LD did the deed, you would be crucified by them.

No, I'm not exagerating. I seem them do it too many times. Only thing was, you had some in TSE as well starting the trouble and being louder and more obnoxious. Now those from TSE are gone, it's more notible., more so as SWFans as a rule is much quieter and a generally nicer place.

[ReaperFett]

I disagree that a Gue banning would cause an uproar. Not if the banning was done profesionally.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I bet I could ban someone and make them accept it and laugh about it.


No, maybe not. :)

[ReaperFett]

I did with Leeloo :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

I disagree that a Gue banning would cause an uproar. Not if the banning was done profesionally.

Not from the the greater amount of roleplayers, agreed. I'm more thinking about the very handfull who have adgendas against others right now. The fact is, you can be as professional as you want, you can give people all the room they want, be as nice as you can and be generally cool, there are a limited amount of fools who will persist and still cause hell for their own reasons.

[ReaperFett]

It's all politics. People dont shout if noone will listen.

[imported_Eve]

People already think anything you think they will be thinking (LOL) if we do this.

[Marcus Telcontar]

It's all politics. People dont shout if noone will listen.

But some people's voices arent worth listening to (Itala, Lynch). Yet, in this place, they are until they wear out their welcome. And that welcome is a very, very long one. In other places, Gue and Soth would be long gone.

[Nupraptor]

I disagree that a Gue banning would cause an uproar. Not if the banning was done profesionallyWell, there was quite an uproar just because one of his threads got closed. (shrugs) It's happened in the past.

I think the whole "clique" thing is circular logic: If someone does something they don't like, they're instantly a part of the clique. For example: I've heard almost every single person in this thread accused of being in said group. Yet I hardly think you could lump every single one of us into a singular group. Heck, when I was first made a mod, I didn't even talk to Ogre.

Yes, I admit that I've been short with people in the past. But I don't think I've ever shown favortism, nor have I ever abused my powers as a Mod/Admin. But when someone throws a punch at me, I've never been one to just sit back and take it: I retort.

Nonetheless: I've taken steps towards controlling myself better. Yet, there is still a stigma attached to myself and the staff here, as a whole. I think it's something that needs to be addressed, and Eve's idea may be something to take into consideration. Still, it has a lot of potential for both harm and good. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to keep everyone happy, I'm more than willing to listen.

[Marcus Telcontar]

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to keep everyone happy


And I hear a position as a peace negotiator in the Middle East is open too afterthat :D

Fact is, you cant please everyone. So just do what is right. If you do the right thing and they dont like it.... well, is that your fault, or the fact they have a stick up the blurter?

On this, I see the pluses and the minuses... but I really dont care euither way. As long as power is not abused and is used resposibly.

[ReaperFett]

Well, there was quite an uproar just because one of his threads got closed.
But many seemed to have a problem with the manner of it. To most normal posters, they see a thread of uselessness closed in a thread of uselessness. And didnt Marcus make a comment at the end?

[Evil Hobgoblin]

After mulling over the subject a tad, I have to say that I think, at the very least, the Mod-mask idea should be given a kind of trial period. If it works, great, if it doesn't, dispense with it. Just make one thing clear- this is an act of the administration that the posters don't get to vote on, and that the administration itself will be the final judge of its effectiveness.

After weighing all the pros and cons, I've come up with an about even balance. To me, that says go for it.

[ReaperFett]

How would we know if it works though?

[Evil Hobgoblin]

The results, I think, will be self-evident. If the Mods abuse the masking, the posters will become more vocal with their displeasure than they are now. If the Mods use the masking to general benefit, said displeasure will be less vocal.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

hoom hum hoom...I feel like an ent. And I agree, we'll know if it works or not. People will let us know.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I personally think that whomever cries "Clique!" is simply insecure. Think about it... people who consider themselves competent RPers will, most likely, want to associate with others of the same level of writing skill, plot skill, and common interest. It's no wonder that this has happened, heck, I know I do it. I don't know about the rest of you, but I get a fair amount of offers from various people to be involved in RPs... I check them out, because there are some things I just don't agree with and won't be a part of. These refusals will lead people of a lesser skill (and this isn't an insult, we all were there once, ya know!) to feel alienated from those with a greater skill and more experience.

No matter how many obscure plot threads you are involved in and no matter how many beligerent n00bs you reach out to, some people will still insult you and cry wolf. That's not to say we shouldn't at least try to make them happy, but there's only so much you can do before you just want to wring their little necks, ya know what I mean?

[Admiral Lebron]

If I encounter someone who wants to RP with me and they are of lesser skill I do it anyways. I help them along. You only get better at writing by being exposed to better writing...and using a spellchecker.

[ReaperFett]

I personally think that whomever cries "Clique!" is simply insecure
But this is the thing. Define someone doing this. Some people in this forum would say that about TSE, but without the word.


Btw, when Gue says it, he says cliche, so you know :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

I know, isn't it great? (j/k)

I didn't mean to sound elitist there, I simply meant that there are only so many of "Ramona, the half elven shapeshifting sayajin vampyyre, Han Solo's cousin and 13 year old bounty hunter who also happens to be able to paint, weave, cook, and sing, with long violet hair and eyes that change colors" who come for a week and then leave... I have a very busy college schedule, and I honestly don't want to waste my time with people who are rude and unrealistic. :D

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:lol:lol

[Admiral Lebron]

But those types of RPers rock... mainly because they don't know the rules and you can maim them. :D Not that I ever would of course. :rolleyes