Red Dragon

[Jedi Master Carr]

Okay the day has arrived Red Dragon opens tomorrow nationwide, and I am ready for this film. So far the reviews have been good, a lot better than Hannible, it is getting a 67% from Rotten Tomatoes, which is good. I really think it will be a very good film, probably not up to Lambs but better Hannible if that means anything. I will post a review of it after I see it either tomorrow or Saturday. Finally how much do you guys think it will make opening weekend? I am thinking a little less than 50 maybe 46-49, still Hannible made 58 million in Feburary so you never know.

[CMJ]

I'm curious about it, but I'm not dying to see it. I'll probably catch it in the next couple of weeks.

[Maester Wargrave]

I am so ready for this film!

I am one of a few apparently who loved Hannibal and this one looks real good. I just hope I can stay up until 11:30 to see it. I wanna see the first showing tomorrow :)

Oh and the book rocks! :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

The book is very good I think it is Harris second best novel after Lambs.

[JonathanLB]

Well whatever, I personally enjoyed Hannibal a lot more than I liked Silence of the Lambs. They are both excellent movies, but I prefer the focus on Hannibal. He is the better character, and Ridley Scott is a far superior director and he just did a much better job with it.

I hope Red Dragon is at least a 3.5 star film too.

[Maester Wargrave]

Yes some one else who agrees with me :lol

I am sooo seeing Red Dragon tomorrow :)

[Nupraptor]

Well whatever, I personally enjoyed Hannibal a lot more than I liked Silence of the Lambs. They are both excellent movies, but I prefer the focus on HannibalOh....

my....

I actually agree with Jon here. :eek

Personally, I thought the story of the cross-dressing killer from SotL was kind of campy and overdone. The only saving grace of that movie was Hannibal, IMO. Without that character, the movie wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I really enjoyed the second movie. But perhaps that's because I read the book first. I admit that Scott's direction was a bit jumpy, and may have been hard to follow. But since I knew what was going on, I thought it was excellent. The direction was much darker and moodier, and I loved the focus on what is perhaps one of the best screen characters ever.

That said, I haven't actually read "Red Dragon", so I don't really know what to expect. The story sounds extremely similar to that of SotL. I expect that I'll like this movie better than the first, however.

[Admiral Lebron]

I wanna play lambs... :(

I may see this film tomorrow with my girlfriend and her mom.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I loved SOTL it is a classic to me, actually the whole transvistie thing creeped me out the idea he was killing women to make himself into a woman was really creepy, also when I saw it, I was 15 at the time, scared the crap out of me. Red Dragon, though looks awesome, also the reviews have mostly been great it is getting 69% at RT, and every review is saying its better than Hannible, which I think is true for the books (I read both and Red Dragon is superior), I will probably go see it tomorrow, and will post a review then.

[ReaperFett]

Never actually watched Hannibal :)



The cast makes me intrested in RD

[JonathanLB]

Phew, I'm not alone then. ;)

This movie is going to open big, I think...

I was extremely surprised with how well Sweet Home Alabama did, and this movie seems likely to top that opening. Perhaps around $45 million, unless it can actually beat Hannibal's opening.

[Levi Argon]

I can't believe what I have read! :eek

Silence of the Lambs will never be beaten, the Hannibal Lecter films are turning into a money-making machine and Hannibal gave us a sneak preview of what that meant. I think the Hannibal in the movie "Hannibal" was nowhere near as effective or powerful as that from SOTL

Ridley Scott was a good choice for the film Hannibal but Jonathan Demme did an increadible job with Silence and I shudder to think what Ridley Scott would've done with that movie had he directed it.

As for the whole focus on character point - as much as everyone loves Hannibal Lecter - the character of Clarice Starling is far more interesting and impressive. At least the Clarice Starling played by Jodie Foster for I wasn't too fond of Julian Moore's performance but it did the job. Jodie Foster had to carry Silence of the Lambs on her shoulders, hers was a thankless performance whereas Hopkins' portrayal of Hannibal was far more flashy. The more I watch Silence - which is a lot - the more I appreciate Clarice Starling and the power of her character, Jodie Foster is frequently over-looked but in my mind, in the minds of many, there is no doubt that she carried that film with an awe-inspiring performance.

[Levi Argon]

In defense of Buffalo Bill's character - which I think is really over-looked too - he is not a cross-dresser and nor is he gay. His is a psychological disorder which has made him what he is.

"Look for severe childhood distrubances associated with violence. Our Billy wasn't born a criminal, Clarice. He was made one through years of systematic abuse."

Secondly, he is not gay nor is he a transexual. Rather like every other human, he wants to be the best person he can; he strives for perfection. He sees perfection in the woman he loved or had strong feelings for, his first victim. What does he do?

"He covets." How do we begin to covet? We covet the things we see everyday.

"Billy is not a real transexual. But he thinks he is. He tries to be."

In reality, he wants to be perfect and he sees perfection in this woman, his first victim who he takes the time to weigh down unlike the others, perhaps because he feels ashamed for his actions. The character is very complex and intriguing and as I said is often over-looked and underestimated.

"Billy hates his own identity, you see, and he thinks that makes him a transexual. But his pathology is a thousand tiimes more savage and more terrifying."

[Nupraptor]

In defense of Buffalo Bill's character - which I think is really over-looked too - he is not a cross-dresser and nor is he gay. His is a psychological disorder which has made him what he is. I was over-simplifying things. Becuase when I say "cross-dresser", everyone knows exactly what I mean without me having to go off on a several paragraph long explanation of his character. I did pay attention to the movie, you know. I just think the character was stupid.

I also watched the making-of on the DVD. Buffalo Bill was an amalgam of several different RL killers. But usually, most RL killers only have one or two things about them that make them unique (like how Bundy lured women into getting close to him by feigning weakness). Combining all those things into one person seemed excessive to me. In my opinion, he was a stupid character whom I felt neither empathy towards, nor loathing, nor anything in particular, for that matter. I just wanted him out of the picture.
the Hannibal Lecter films are turning into a money-making machine and Hannibal gave us a sneak preview of what that meant.How? Because they're turning the other two books into movies? Of course they're ultimate goal is to make money, but Hannibal was hardly some cheaply thrown-together adaptation for the sake of money alone. Ridley Scott is a visionary director and he certainly didn't just make the movie for the sake of making a few more bucks.
I think the Hannibal in the movie "Hannibal" was nowhere near as effective or powerful as that from SOTLI thought he was more-so. Because you got to see how he would live his life as a free man. Lecter only killed when he felt the need arose. Before the movie started, he had only killed a single person during his 8 year tenure of freedom. You got to see more of how he was a refined, educated man... the kindly old man whom may become a friend of the family or even a teacher. The kind of man who goes to Italian Operas and who gives thesis work on Dante.

And, since you brought it up: the direction in SotL was pretty ugly, for lack of a better term. More specifically, the lighting was incredibly weak, and made the film look much older than it really was. Bad lighting bothers me when I watch a movie, and it definitely reared its head in SotL.
the character of Clarice Starling is far more interesting and impressivePerhaps to you. But if you take Hannibal away from the movie and tried to let it stand on its legs as a murder mystery, I think it would have flopped. It was the concept of a refined, educated man who commits monstrous crimes that captured people's attentions.

If you liked SotL better, that's fine. Good for you. I hope you've bought the DVD already. But not everybody thinks it's this great Magnum Opus, or comtempary classic, or whatever you want to call it.

[Levi Argon]

You said everyone knows exactly what you mean. I didn't. As I love the film so much I felt the need to defend it with my own view on it, as such I have no idea of how much you read into the film, thought about it and whatnot. Therefore your "cross-dressing" comment can be taken two ways; some may know exactly what you mean and realise you are knowledgeable about the character of Buffalo Bill and are merely over-simplifying it whereas there are those such as myself who read it like you didn't really appreciate the depth of the character and had to provide a counter-perspective.


How? Because they're turning the other two books into movies? Of course they're ultimate goal is to make money, but Hannibal was hardly some cheaply thrown-together adaptation for the sake of money alone. Ridley Scott is a visionary director and he certainly didn't just make the movie for the sake of making a few more bucks.

I believe Hannibal to be a weak film, especially in comparison to Silence. The interaction and dialogue between Lecter and Clarice wasn't half as entertaining and the part where this genius was captured by a stun-gun really ruined the image of Hannibal Lecter for me too. The character of Clarice failed to grip me like it did in the previous film too. All in all, I found Hannibal a very mediochre film. Certainly, Ridley Scott is an impressive director but nothing about this film gripped me as one would expect from a film under his direction. All in all, I found the film to be cheap and was forced into a formula that would be appeal to a mass audience for the purpose of making money with the return of Dr. Lecter to the big screen.

Demme's presence could be felt in Silence, at least that's what I think, it's a much tighter, gripping movie. Far more atmospheric than Hannibal, there was no tension, no anticipation, nothing about Hannibal was original or refreshing.

To finish, I don't expect everybody to see SOTL the same way I do but I like to exercise my freedom to express my opinion of it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I would go see Red Dragon...but I'm too afraid to go. :cry

I enjoyed SotL more than Hannibal, simply because the gore factor in Hannibal was so high, I was grossed out for the majority of the movie. The brain eating finale was just chilling and disgusting and...and...

It would take a lot to get me to see Red Dragon, and I sure as heck am not going alone. ^_^;

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well personally I think SOTL is a classic and it is consider so by critics so far, a lot of people also might call it a classic. Now about the Buffalo Bill character he was explained better in the book really, and he was really a creepy character, even in the movie he creeped me out and he is played brillaintly by Ted Levine, sure he doesn't stand out but that is more becaue Lectar steals that movie away from him.
Now back to RD, I am curious has anybody seen Manhunter? I say that because some of the critics are pissing me off because they are going out of there away to bring up Manhunter and say that RD is a remake, that is a laugh, Manhunter was nothing like the book from what I have read (it changed the ending, Lectar has a very brief cameo even smaller than the book, The tooth Fairy's character is shredded and Graham's character is as well) I think these guys are in love with Michael Mann or something because its an old forgetable film, and I wish they stop trying to bring that up. Still the reviews have been good 69 % at RT that is a lot better than Hannible if that means anything.

[Maester Wargrave]

First review of Red Dragon.

Frelling AWESOME!

The directing, the music (my gosh Danny Elfman finally had music that didn't sound like Batman), I knew where I was in the book when I was watching the film! I LOVE when that happens! :D

The actor who steals the show though is Ralph Fiennes. He's chilling...and Anthony Hopkins is as good as he is in Hannibal and in SOTL. You can tell he's having 'fun' with the Hannibal Lecter character.

This movie...is oodles of fun.

*has been inspired >D

[ReaperFett]

my gosh Danny Elfman finally had music that didn't sound like Batman
Army of Darkness didnt :)

[Taylor Millard]

Well Elfman has the same problems that John Williams can have. Their scores are instantly recognizable because of the chord progressions and the use of strings or brass, etc etc.

Both composers needed films to get them out of their current 'trends'.

With Williams it was 'AI' with Elfman it was 'Red Dragon'.

[CMJ]

Man...I'm not gonna add a whole diatribe to the SOTL vs "Hannibal" discussion other than to say to me "Silence" is a MUCH better movie.

That is all...back to regularly scheduled programming. ;)

[JediBoricua]

I hear you CMJ.

Hannibal was good, but SOTL was great.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Red Dragon was incredible! I believe that it eclipses SotL, honestly. The tooth fairy is much more dynamic and intriguing than buffalo bill, and the Hopkins/Norton pairing is just as intense as Hopkins/Foster, but in a different way.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I saw it today and it was awesome it was way better than Hannible and is close to SOTL. Where to start, first the acting, was terrific, Hopkins was great as Lectar good enough for a supporting oscar nod, have no clue if he will get one though. Ed Norton was great too, I really liked his character and he did a great job of acting throughout the movie. Still, the actor who was the best was Fiennes, man he was creepy and horrifying at the same time but his performance made you sympathize him because he was made a monster by his abusive grandmother . The supporting cast was great too Kietel, was good in supporting role, Philip Hoffman Seymore was great as the sleaze reporter Freddy Lounds his death was the one gross moment in the film but still not as bad as in the novel . Emily Watson also did a good job as the blind love interest of the Dragon.

Okay on to the plot, the movie was very faithful to the novel, there were some changes but they were mainly minor, I really liked the beginning I liked how we were shown Hannible, the scene involving the flutist was the funniest moment in the film. Then there was the scene with Graham capturing him, that was terrific. The other really good thing about the film was the suspense which is why it is better than Hannible, the movie is very suspensful espically the end when it appeared that the Dragon was dead and he than came after Graham and his family that scene was really intense. Also there were a lot of other scary moments in the film, the Lounds scene, every scene with Lectar, and in the burning building Finally I really liked the ending with Dr Childs, who played his part as well as he did in SOTL, telling Lectar that there is a young female FBI agent here to see him, and he than says, "what is her name" That really connected this film to SOTL, IMO

Overally, I have to say this is one of the three best films I have seen this year and if you liked either of the Lectar movies, I check this one out.

[Nupraptor]

Red Dragon was incredible! I believe that it eclipses SotL, honestly. The tooth fairy is much more dynamic and intriguing than buffalo bill, and the Hopkins/Norton pairing is just as intense as Hopkins/Foster, but in a different way. I agree 100%. I enjoyed Red Dragon much more than Silence of the Lambs.

The plot seemed to flow much better. When Norton's character was piecing together clues to try and track down who the Toothfairy, you could actually sit there and try to figure out the clues with him. And the "Toothfairy" himself is a much more believable, and thus much more terrifying, villan. The opening scene was especially great, since I remember reading about it in Hannibal.

Lecter's character was great, as you could see the full scope of his genius. Nearly the entire movie felt as if he had somehow masterfully orchestrated it from his prison cell. He felt little of the sympathy towards Graham that he did towards Starling and so it made the interaction between the two just that much more tense.

For those that are worried about the gore, don't be: There's hardly any at all. There's only one scene which could be considered gory at all, and it's nowhere near as bad as any of the ones in the previous movie.

I went into the theater expecting Red Dragon to be "pretty good", but nothing outstanding. I was pleasantly surprised with an oustanding film that I'm definitely buying the moment it comes out on video.

8/10

[Diego Van Derveld]

In contrast, it kicked the pants off of Hannibal, I think. I finally got to see it this afternoon. Its just not the same feel. That, and it was really way too hideously gory :x

[Nupraptor]

I really enjoyed the book, so I think that contributed to my liking of the movie adaptation of it. I especially liked the ending of Hannibal.

[Diego Van Derveld]

There was a lot left unresolved. Especially regarding Clarice's professional aftermath. I was left wanting.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Hannibal was sooo gory! The scariest thing was being in the theatre with a couple of my girl and guy friends, and seeing that the guys were just enraptured by the gore. Freaks!!

Ok well one of my guy friends was saying that he was about to puke, and kept hanging onto my arm...but he doens't count.

ANyway...

[JonathanLB]

"Perhaps to you. But if you take Hannibal away from the movie and tried to let it stand on its legs as a murder mystery, I think it would have flopped."

I agree totally. I love Hannibal, he is my favorite character. Without him, SOTL is like Blood Work or Murder By Numbers, sorry to say. Direction was not incredible at all, it was sufficient. The film succeeded from its great acting and, I am not among those of you who bash SOTL and love Hannibal...

Actually I gave them both four stars, but I liked Hannibal better.

I really enjoyed Red Dragon. I know this may sound stupid, but it was better than I thought, yet I "only" gave it 3.5 stars. I just didn't expect it'd be better than 3.5 stars, and it was very nearly 4, so to me, it was better than expectations. I really enjoyed it. I thought the ending just rocked, the very very ending I mean, sets it up so well for SOTL, and actually that is not a spoiler at all if you've seen SOTL.

Anyway, wow, what a GREAT cast! I thought it was all very well done, but to me, it didn't say "FOUR STARS," and I know a four star movie when I see it, I never have to think, "Does it deserve four stars?" If I have to think about it, the answer is no.

I felt it deserved a strong 3.5 stars and is one of the best 15 movies I have seen this year, of about 120 I've watched. I will absolutely be adding it to my DVD collection and I'd strongly recommend it to anyone. Best film of September and October so far.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Red Dragon broke the October record and made 37 million for the weekend. I think it made less money this weekend than Hannible because a lot of people displeased with Hannible. I think WOM will be big and it will do very well in October, it should make a 100, I am thinking somewhere between 120-160 depending on WOM.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

WOM ?

[CMJ]

Word of Mouth. ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ohh. ;) Nice sig. ;)

[CMJ]

Yeah...don't you think?

These will be a very long 2 weeks :p

*looking off into the distance*

Eb will rue the day he leveled this torture. ;)

[JMK]

Hey, look on the bright side; if you actually knew each other personally, imagine what he would have you doing right now! :lol

[JediBoricua]

Saw Red Dragon yesterday. What a great film! My g/f almost crushed my hand on some scenes. Norton stole the show with his perfomance, and Hopkin's once again did an excellent job with Lecter. Really scary stuff. I loved Watson's character also.

Not as great as SOTL, but nearly. I think for Silence is the best of them all because I was like 11 when I first saw it, and I was so scared/shocked/intrigued, some images of that movie I will carry for the rest of my life.

[Sene Unty]

I just saw it! Wow what a fantastic movie!!! I loved the characters in it. It was creepy without being too gory and overdone like Hannibal was to me. I give it 3.5 out of 4 stars. Fantastic!!!! Edward Norton is the bomb.....

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ed Norton is great in it, I can't decide who was better him or Fiennes.

[JonathanLB]

It is good to see that most of you agree with what I said, roughly. I love these movies where people will actually agree with my review, LOL, it is a pain to have major disagreements with every movie, which is why I like to see Ebert agree with some of my reviews sometimes even though I think the guy is off base a lot lately.

"I give it 3.5 out of 4 stars."

That's what I said.