Sence we have Jedi Warriors....(An Idea)

[Verse Dawnstrider]

...like Marcus, Helenias, Xazor, and others. I was wonderin' if we should start a group of Jedi for teh opposite. Like Mr.Tondry talked about in that promotion thread. He called them Consulars. I noticed we have a good bit of warriors, but not as many talkers.

If we deside to add a section, title, group, forum, whatever you want to call it. I would like to be in it. I don't thinka person shoudl be in both groups, but it would give some Jedi a place to be. Verse really dislikes combat for the most part. He would rather talk something out. That means he really is not suited for the Warrior Caste. A Consular Caste would better suit him, as well as others. I am not sayinga person has to choice one, but if they do they shoudl not be able to do both, but it would allow this group of people do some Diplomatic RPs and such as a group like teh warriors do. Just a thought.....

[Sanis Prent]

:cry yes! Jubei is so lonely :cry :lol

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Jubei is lonely and wants Verse to join him, eh? Who'd have guessed that the son of Anbira Hicchoru would turn out to be gay?

:)

As a side note to this post, I figured I'd just say that Consulars aren't necessarily just diplomats. They can also be bargainers, economists, counselors, planners, or whatever you chose from the professional spectrum. The Consular focus is on mental attributes and the ability to get others to work as a unit while the Guardian (or in SWFans case, Warrior) focus is on physical attributes and the ability to directly confront evil.

That is all I wanted to say. Carry on, and ignore the Dark Jedi in your midst.

*Hob suddenly bolts for the window in a dramatic escape!*

[Verse Dawnstrider]

sweet. I got teo people to say it is a good Idea. The fact that they are more than just diplomats makes it even better. Thank's Hob.

[Sejah Haversh]

Well, Sejah would love to learn from these guys, but, I'm not sure if he'd ever be able to be one of them.

He's not terribly smart, and can only barely read now. He would rather talk something out than fighting, and doesn't like to fight unless he has to. But, he also doesn't seem to get along well with Jubei. So, even though I'm not sure if I could ever be part of this group, could sejah at least learn from them?

[Figrin D'an]

You mean Figrin might be able to pass on a lot of his knowledge as a historian and a diplomat?

;)


I do like the idea. Even if not a complete sub-group, like the warriors, at least some classes or discussions about those kind of topics would be beneficial.


I don't necessarily agree that you have to be one or the other, either a scholar or a warrior... it's possible to be both. For example, Figrin is a very skilled fighter, and an expert swordsman... he just isn't a part of the "Warrior" sub-group because he believes in different principles... diplomacy before combat, and that knowledge and wisdom can be just as powerful a weapon or defense as physical abilities. I guess, in short, I'm saying that you can possess a myriad of skill sets... it's more-or-less the mentality that is different... as to whether you shoot first or talk first, if you get my drift.


Again, I like the idea. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

Navaria has fit this role for sometime now guys :lol

[Figrin D'an]

That's true, Navaria... but I think the main point is that there is a lot of emphasis on combat skills, using the Force, using a lightsabre, and going out to kick some Dark Side butt, while there is little real training regarding the other aspects of being a Jedi... as scholars, diplomats, and advisors. Having a few people head up a class or group like this would be a good way to present a broader spectrum of Jedi philosophy, other than just "Let's go slice and dice the bad guys."


This is something that can be tied in with Ryla's proposed class structure idea, as well, if there is interest in doing that...

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Figrin: Not so, my good man. Guardians/Warriors must spend time developing their swordplay, and similarly must Consulars spend time working on their logic, their persuasive skills and oratory techniques, and so on. You have to firmly keep in mind that Yoda was a Consular and Mace Windu a Guardian, yet both were Masters on the Jedi Council. It is not that a single person cannot possess techniques of both fields, it is that if you chose to specialize in a particular facet of Consularism, you are putting that ahead of some part of your physical training- likewise spending extra time to master that particularly difficult lightsaber form means you aren't working on your debating skills.

I will provide you with a more concrete example. When Windu led the Jedi in an attack on the Geonosian arena, he was in his element. One must then ask- why didn't Yoda come? We all saw how skilled he was against Dooku- he could have made an invaluable fighter.

The answer is that Yoda had a much greater effect on Geonosis directing the clones against the separatists than he would have going in with Mace, lightsaber flashing. By providing direction the clone army would not otherwise have received, Yoda was able to rescue the remaining Jedi from the arena even though they faced almost certain execution.

Anywho... this is all just information I present. :) Believe it, as you will or not.

[Salemn Lysce]

Verse, I'm glad you brought this up. I know that Salemn could probably fit into it, but she's also a healer (since I'm into herbs and such IRL). :)

Anyways, you've got my support

[Liam Jinn]

There were originally supposed to be more forums or whatever opening up for Healers and Scholars, don't know what happened though.

[Figrin D'an]

Those are all valid points... I'm mearly saying that it is possible for a Jedi to possess a variety of skills. You use Yoda in your example to show differences between he, in a "Consular" role, and Mace Windu in a "Guardian" role. One could easily use Yoda as an example to demonstrate that versatility can and does exist. Yoda is primarily a teacher, a leader in matters of the mind. But, as we saw, he has great skill as a fighter as well. His primary role, in his mind, is a wisened advisor. But, when necessary, he has the ability to take action in combat, and perform quite well.

Think about Qui-Gon as well. He's a bit of a rogue, a top-level swordsman, very in tune with the Living Force, and very impulsive. But, his role at the beginning of TPM was to be as a negotiator. The Council sent him and Obi-Wan to talk down the Trade Federation from the hostile move against Naboo. If Qui-Gon wasn't solid in this area of study, it seems unlikely that the Council would trust him with such a delicate situation.


Each Jedi has certain abilities at which they excel, and others with which they may struggle. A "Consular" may not be able to match up with the combat abilities of a "Guardian." Conversely, a "Guardian" will likely not be able to match wits with a "Consular." This does not mean, however, that said people of each persuasion, are one-dimensional. They simply may not be "as good" in certain areas as others. Given enough time and training, it's possible to become a very well-rounded Jedi, and be formidable in many respects.


Our opinions are closer to each others than is indicated by our words... we mearly are standing on slightly opposing fronts.

[Zeke]

Sounds good. We have too many fighters anyways.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Figrin: Indeed, they are close, but the dividing line is that I believe, in order to truly master a particular mental or physical facet of the Jedi way, one must exclude an opposing facet. There simply isn't enough time in the day to become a true master of BOTH physical and mental disciplines. Though it is certainly reasonable to develop skill in both, and indeed such is expected for Jedi, any given Jedi will inevitably favor one discipline over the other, simply because it is more in line with their temperament.

But such is the stuff good debates are made of. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

Honstly, I don't see why we need more forums :\ We have a lot anyway unless there is a way to make a subforum within GJO like the NR and have the forums for all the classes there, warrior, healers, counselors.

Fig- I didn't see your post when I posted otherwise i would have had a more concrete response then hey I fit the bill :lol

Ryla's idea could work well with this when new people come in, they can perhaps choose a path for their character and then a proper master could be assigned to them for RPing purposes?

I dunno, tis a thought

[Liam Jinn]

I'd say let the new people train in all basics for awhile, then when they reach the level of Knight, start focusing more on one area than the other. It's not a necessity for them to do it though, just an idea worth playing out.

[Marcus Telcontar]

In priciple, I agree with the idea. Marcus of course is the more kick the Sith out of em Jedi but he also does know about the consular bits - some of my favorite RP's were negotiations and it's a part rarely explored.

I'd like to throw this idea forth and see who salutes.

Change the Acadamy into sub forums - Fighting, Consular, Healing, other Force aspects. Masters can choose where they will look after or post in, Padawans will need to be aware and take some training in each before beginning to specialise. I would also think a Master, a truly senior Master like Marcus or Figrin have overall responsibiliy for the running of the sub forum for a particular skill set. Knights and other Masters are welcome to train other in those skills I will point out - it is just that some Masters are well above the others IC in knowledge on certain things. They can be advisors to those who train.

Just the germ of an idea. Lets discuss, mainly cause Laim's point is a god one and deserves discussion

[Oriadin]

Im totaly for this idea. There is so much fighting in all the roleplays that a lot of people dont even consider trying to talk things out. If we start a group of Nogotiators and whatever then this will hopefully promote people to do this more in roleplays, rather than simply get the weapon out.

Marcus's idea is a good one I think. So far id say im for it, but id have to read what others thoughts are.

[Sene Unty]

I like the idea, but Sene isn't much of a fighter so, I dont think he will join. I like Marcus' idea of different sub-sections to the acadamy. I like it!!! :D

[Ryla Relvinian]

*reads forum, passes out, wakes up, reads it again*

This is a GREAT idea. I've been saying for a while that fighting isn't the only way for a jedi... Inventors, pilots, naturalists, investigators, mediators. All sorts of ways to branch out. Subsections for the academy is a great idea as well. I am looking forward to being a part of this. :D

[Salemn Lysce]

All I can say is, I think Marcus' idea is great. Go for it !! :)

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I'm going to do something I haven't done in a long time. All of you older GJO mebers that know me know what i am talkin' about.....

Happy Dance!!!!!!!!!!

::Verse gets jiggy with it and does his happy dance.::

I finally have a good Idea. I gots a question. If there is a mentalist area, can I help run that? I have been a Jedi Mentalist and havin' Verse IC Mastering that field for the year and half I have been at GJO.

[Ryla Relvinian]

So far looks like we'll need spaces for :

Mentalists (Verse)

Naturalists (AB?)

Warriors (the crew that does it so far)

Mediators / Counselor (Jubei?)

anything else? My guess is that we'll also need an OOC training forum as well as... well, what about a jedi tinkerer's place? You know, lightsaber maintenance, technical folks who would rather take their lightsaber apart that actually fight with it. Figrin, would you want an "Official Loremaster's Office" or something? :D

[Figrin D'an]

LOL, Ryla...


Maybe I should just change my custom title to "Ye Old GJO Storyteller." ;)


In all seriousness, I'll think about it... if nothing else, a combination of history and politics that could be a facet of the Counselor/Mediator mold, since a lot of those things go into being a successful ambassador and Jedi Representative in the Republic political arenas... we can mull things over and decide how it would best fit.

[Salemn Lysce]

I'm not sure where Salemn would fall into. In a way, she's like a 'mentalist', but also a 'naturalist' with her extensive knowledge on herbs. =/ Anyway, Ryla, I think that's all the subforums we need. :)

[Navaria Tarkin]

Navaria is like a counselor and also a healer.

[Liam Jinn]

Don't forget Healers...and I still say wait until the people get promoted to Knight before they can start focusing on one area. Padawan should be where they gain the basic skills and actually know how to use them.

[Kelt Simoson]

Kelt is a Crusader not a warrioir...two diffrent things really so i dont think Kelt would fall in there at all..

[Ryla Relvinian]

Yeah, good point with the Healers section... that's a very valuable skill.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Gotta HEAL before you CAN BEAT UP YOUR SITHY ENEMIES :p

:)

Anyway, nothing wrong with focusing on a particular area if a Padawan wishes it. I was only thinking it would help provide an RPing avenue for a player if they aren't sure what to do with their character.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Agh, I'm not wrroied if a Padawan wishes to specialise in somethign. That's admirable. To learn all skills takes longer and is definantly harder.

So, we like the idea of splitting the Acadamy into subforums, with Knights / Masters looking after the sections?

Mentalists (Verse)

Naturalists (AB?)

Warriors (the crew that does it so far / Liam - Xazor)

Mediators / Counselor (Figrin I would put here)

Healers / Health / Fitness

I'd say One Master looks after each subject, but there are Knights who also do so, in like an understudy role. Master teaches the Knights, Knights pass the knowledge on.

[Figrin D'an]

A padawan specializing in a particular area is fine... that's kind of the point of all of this in the first place... to give people a variety of ways to customize their characters...


This can tie in really well with the new class idea proposed by Ryla. Once a padawan candidate takes the intro classes, and becomes a full padawan, they should seek a master that will allow them to explore the given area of study that peaks there interest.

I'm genuinely excited about the way this is shaping up... this is a huge step in the right direction. :)

[Helenias Evenstar]

Interesting idea. Worth looking into

[TheHolo.Net]

Just to clarify some technical aspects/questions about these possibilities let me come in and say a couple things and pose a question as an Administrator.

If you have all seen the <a href=http://www.swforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=111>NRSF and Warrior Home Base Forum</a>, you can see what a forum here at GJO with one subforum looks like. That particular forum besides containing a subforum also acts as a forum, in the fact that topics can be posted in it.

Now this idea as suggested so far is completely feasible. The Training forum can contain 5, 6, or even 12 subforums (whatever is ultimately decided) with no troubles at all, but that leaves me with the question of; Whether or not you folks want to leave the base Training forum open for posting or whether you want all the posts to go in the subforums?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yu would want 1) if there was no catchall / misc forum and 2) if there was one. But I would think the five catagories would be fairly inclusive as they stood.

[TheHolo.Net]

<a href=http://www.swforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=55>GJO</a> itself is an example of a forum that does not allow posting yet contains subforums, just to try and make myself more clear to those who may not understand. The Training/Academy forum could either be like GJO (no posting) or be like the NRSF/Warrior forum and allow posting.

Hope all get what I mean. :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

I get what you're saying, and I think that it should be set up like the GJO forums (no posting) and include a general training subforum as a catch-all.... it's just easier that way, IMO, from a training standpoint. :)

[Master Yoghurt]

I like this idea of subforums a lot. Yog is a natural diplomat/mediator. Although, he got a range of skills, he would normally seek a peaceful solution to a problem.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

So........is it a go?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yes. I'll go get it organised

[Liam Jinn]

How about we just change the Warrior Forum into a specialty forum? Just put all the subforums in there.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The NR live under the Warriors forum - I also think it's best to split the Acadamy into sections. I would prefer Warriors moved into Acadamy and then the split up.

I dont think I made a lot of sense, did I?

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I like it. i say lets get this rollin'.

[Liam Jinn]

When do you make sense mate? :p

Aye, that'll work. I suppose we should mention something about the different things the padawans can specialize in with a thread in the Acadamy.

[Navaria Tarkin]

a sticky topic you mean?

[TheHolo.Net]

Before this can proceed with my creating the forums. I need the exact names of the forums that are wanted in there and forum descriptions for each.

From what I understand the threads in the Current Jedi Academy forum will be moved into one of these subforums. It will need a name and description as well. And something else to consider is modifying the description on the Academy forum on the main GJO forum index.

Please note that descriptions need to be kept to no more than three short sentences or one semi long one, as I am slightly limited in how long a forum description I can add. (One of these days I need to hack that limit out)

[Verse Dawnstrider]

an idea:

We can have the main Academy area for spars and such, and training from masters and classess in those Forums. That may be what y'all have planned though. I don't know.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Eh, the academy is not the sparring forum .. it is suppose to represent the learning of the Jedi ... I don't agree with that. The subforums should probably be broken up into the academy forum...

[Oriadin]

Yeah, I agree with Nav. So... what rooms are we having? Would it be an idea to have training room 1,2,3,4 etc and just have different descriptions so we know which is which. Im just thinking that this will be easier if say im talking to a padawan and want to start a training thread with them. Its easier to say

I'll meet you in training room 1 - A new begining (Closed)

Rather than

I'll meet you in the Mentalists forum, thread - A new begining (Closed)

[Liam Jinn]

Nah, I'd rather have the subforums named by what they specialize in.

[Salemn Lysce]

I agree with Liam. If we say -we'll meet you here-, then we can at least do it like this:

I'll meet you in the Mentalist section where your training will begin

[Navaria Tarkin]

academy should be broken into subforums explaining what it is each subforum speciality is :)

[Oriadin]

Yeah, we know that, but we have room names and we have a discription of what that room is underneath.

Just felt my suggestion may have made it sound more realistic but it really doesnt matter either way.