Ooc : Fyi

[Marcus Telcontar]

Seems I'm not being particualrly hidden or anything, nor do I really care OOC if you know - if you read what I write, you would know already anyways

http://meras.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=111

Welcome to The Lost Jedi. It's not meant to replace GJO or indeed to compete with it. It's a flight of fancy on my behalf

OOC YOur all welcome to watch the fun begin and I think it will be fun, because the Lost will see and do things very, very differently, whilst keeping appearences within the Jedi. The reason I'm alerting is simply laying down what the Lost are not - and it's something that has been brewing in my mind for a long, long time.

In a week's time, Dexter's Diner will open - it's on Coruscant, its not far from the Temple - and it could be a lot of fun OOC reading what goes on.

On thing I will ask is that although OOC we are being open about this, please do not use OOC knowledge for IC. Only Yog knws about The Lost IC.

If a quarter of the things in my mind come off, it's goign to be rather entertaining to say the least :D

[Figrin D'an]

hmmm....

I have... concerns.


But I'm not going to address them here, or now.

[Diego Van Derveld]

I think this is NJO, Redux, and is not a good idea. Then again...its the land of freedom and opportunity, and if you wish to do this, or put babies on spikes, then GO...its the AMERICAN DREAM! :D

[Loki Ahmrah]

That's vile. :x

I'm not sure what to make of the Lost Jedi idea yet. I'll have to put things into perspective first.

[Sene Unty]

Will the Lost Jedi be active on this forum or somewhere else?

[Verse Dawnstrider]

my biggest Question;

Will These 'Lost Jedi' be allowed to be on teh GJO council? The council is suppost to be the prime cut of GJO and follow it's beliefs. If you are a Lost Jedi, I do not see how you can be a Council member of something that you don't believe in, or follow there rules.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Thats a good question. If this is an inclusive thing to GJO, is it then one of those gentleman's club kinda things, so that we've got Jedi Freemasons or a Jedi version of the Skulls, etc. If thats the case, its even more unappealing than the prospect of NJO Redux :\

[Ryla Relvinian]

Uhm, yeah, good question. I'm all for freedom of opportunity, but if you decide to leave the Jedi you should also resign the council, just out of courtesy to other Jedi who could hold the office and keep with the ideals. I personally don't see any reason that those that leave should continue to hold office here.

This isn't, of course, a slam on anyone personally, but I'm sure y'all understand my POV here. Why would Jedi leave? It seems like a very major decision, with farther-reaching concequences than most people would realize. Why haven't these issues come up before the council before people run off? Surely, if a Jedi is at odds with a certain ideal here something can be resolved in a less-drastic way?

[Verse Dawnstrider]

My thing is the Lost Ones are suppost to be workin' outside of GJO. This is because they don't agree with stuff here. How can you be one of the Leaders (You know what I mean by this) if you don't follow the rules of the order. If you are workin' outside of the Order, tehn you pickin' what rules you wish to follow. IMO, one shouldn't be on the Council if they do that.

As far as the Skulls thing ( I wanted the Skulls 2 yestereday), I don't think it is like that. From readin' the OOC thing leads me to believe it is not like that. I see it as another 'Political Party' if you will. Verse may one day be The Supreme Jedi Master of Light and Honor or what ever, but it would be pointless to invite him to the group because he is a stronge believer in most of teh GJO standards. Jon doe on teh other hand is not as good, but doesn't agree with GJO stuff. He may be invited after a while. I could be wrong though.

[Sene Unty]

I think this is more for RP reasons than anything....but what do I know

[Oriadin]

Surly though, all the Jedi here would know they are part of 'The Lost' and it would be up to them if they thought they should be on the council. At the end of the day, its the people here who decided who they think is good enough both IC and OOC I think. It is possible that the people involved in the lost may not want to be on the council, as Marcus has done a few times now but I think the people who RP here should still be the judge.

[Sejah Haversh]

So, um, does that mean I'm a Padawan to a Lost Jedi now? OR what? I'm quite confused, and don't say that was the goal.

Organized confusion is one thing, but I am in a state of disorganized confusion, unsure of how my training is going to continue. That, and I'm not sure if Sejah will be able to maintain the same level of respect for his Master if the Lost Jedi are so different from what he wishes to become.

I don't know, if I knew more perhaps I'd be more comfortable with this idea, but as it stands, I have no clue what this means for any of us.

[Wei Wu Wei]

What is the Lost Jedi, anyway? Is it some sort of elite group or what? If I knew more about it, I could say 'yay' or 'nay' to it. But the name sure sounds cool.

[Liam Jinn]

The Lost?

So finally there is a name for the clique that you hang in? Riiight. Yeah, I don't believe that a 'lost' should be on the council, and won't stand for it.

First off, it appears to be more Dark Jedi than Jedi. Using deceptions and violence...? Second, the members of the Lost, are NOT members of GJO? Temple access should be taken away. I'm sure there's more, but I'll bring it up later.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Quote from OOC thread on Lost Jedi Page:

What are the Lost Jedi?

The Lost Jedi are ones whom have left the Jedo Order violuntarily - or so it was in the pre Empire times. Now, The Lost are Jedi whom do not agree with thier brother Jedi and seek to be Jedi their own way - a way that is violent, secretive, dangerous and seemingly close to the Dark Side. If we appear to be Dark Siders, then we have succeeded in our deceptions.

What do the Lost do?

We use methods not exactly Jedi approved and also our real enemies are not the typical Jedi ones. More than that, for now I wont say

/end Quote

[Sejah Haversh]

I'm starting to see this as more of a seperatist movement than a branchoff. Marcus, I believe that Liam is right, if you go on to lead this group, we should remove your access to the Temple and remove you from the council.

Which is a shame, because I like workign with you, and you're my master. But, if you want to go as far as to distance yourself from the ideal that Sejah was looking for, I'm afraid you'll lose him as a Padawan. The end does not always jsutify the means, and virtue ought to take place over the end result. What you propose is not quite virtuous, and is not very honroable, either.

And Honor and Virtue are two things very important to Sejah. Do this if you must, but, without knowing more than the mysteries you have shrouded, this seems to be only a way to give yourself more power without takign responsibility. I don't want to believe that is true, but, you make it very hard for me to understand what you are truly getting at.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Using that quote, I'd say that this would be a secession from this Order, but then again, there is much confusion rampant.

[Ki-Adi Kindo]

Its very,very hypocritical, but oh well, we will just have to kill you. (j/k)

[Figrin D'an]

okay... I'll give my thoughts on this now.


I am concerned that this group will give an impression of elitism. Hand picking existing GJO members that you deem worthy of joining the group... this troubles me greatly. The people that a given RPer chooses with which to associate themselves is, of course, a personal choice. Establishing an RPing group with those associates is fine as well. But... attempting to establish a sect, within another group, by which membership is chosen by existing sect members, without the consent of the rest of the group through a democratic process... I have issues with that.

Then, as have been mentioned, there are the IC concerns. Operating outside the confines of Jedi regulations and council mandate while still claiming to be Jedi, maintaining a prominate position within GJO while blatantly going against Jedi principles... that's not going to fly with most people.

I don't have a problem with making a new group, calling it "The Lost Jedi," or having current Jedi joining said group... that's individual player perogative. But, it should be a seperate group... not the "Freemasons" of the GJO, to borrow an analogy.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

::agrees::

[Liam Jinn]

I don't mind what he's doing as long as he acknowledges he and Xaz created a Dark Jedi group, has temple access taken away, and get booted off the council.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Oh, so that is what they are. They pretend to be Dark Jedi in order to get close to, and kill the Dark jedi. Assassins. I'll go visit, but I am afraid that Wei will not be joining. Maybe I'll make another character to do the Lost Jedi thing with, but that is only after I fully understand the whole thing.

[Figrin D'an]

Considering that Xazor is listed as a member of this group, I'd like to hear her thoughts on this, as well as those of Marcus. And Helenias and Yog, as they are supposedly IC aware of this group.

[Liam Jinn]

Agreed

[Sejah Haversh]

Yeah, let's wait on the talk about this group until they can further explain what it is. It is quite possible that we all read it wrong, and had mis-understood its meaning. Let's wait and hear them out before further grumbling.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Listen :

Judge it by it's actions. It's a roleplay action. It's supposed to invoke confusion and puzzlement and a who the hell are they? It's a challenge and a puzzle for others to try to solve. Just because I've laid out what that puzzle will be OOC in advance, does not make it less.

Sejah, I will speak to you privately.

And for crying out loud, I asked for people to watch ad see what happens and how it develops. I asked for that OOC. I'm presenting to all a puzzle. Right now, no more. I'm not out to replace the GJO, I'm not out to recruit anyone else from the Order (Although a few outside the Jedi, yes we are goign to target for recruitment / turning) and nor is it to go against the GJO. This is a personal idea that I'm now in position to run with and I've decided to be open and honest. that it's come about. I'm putting here that yes, OOC I'm acknowledging that things I am doing on a RP level and putting some sort of explaination.

[Levi Argon]

Marcus, you call it a puzle but - speaking from my perspective only now - I find that it is closed off, confusing and quite frankly not a puzzle I would be interested in solving. Why? Because a great deal of what you do tends to be very inaccessible to others so bringing it here and announcing it has done nothing more than stir up confusion. With all this talk of puzzles it does nothing but discourages my faith in this Lost Jedi project.

I don't even know what I'm talking about and that's the problem you need to tackle with this; the project is ambiguous, innaccessable and off-putting to me. As such it will not whip me into a roleplaying frenzy to find out what's wrapped in this shiny, shiny paper. A lot of people are confused about what your doing and yet you challenge to solve what is now a puzzle, I am far too discouraged by what I've read to engage such a task.

[Ki-Adi Kindo]

I guess the Lost Jedi are lost indeed.

[Levi Argon]

Ironically, I think we're the lost Jedi. :)

[Ki-Adi Kindo]

Good point, :-)

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'm just going to STFU. Watch for yourselves and judge then when it's developed more the concepts and the targets are clearer. I'm now regretting my decision to actually try to be open and potentially accomodating for once.

[Zeke]

No non-SW characters? Does that not exclude Garou as well?

[Levi Argon]

Can I just state for the record that I don't have any real qualms about the Lost Jedi idea - each to his own - but after having seen that there are many who have doubts and complaints about it I thought it best to just point out that calling it a puzzle to be solved doesn't ease their concerns but rather raises them. At least in my opinion.

[Levi Argon]

STFU?

[Ki-Adi Kindo]

No non-SW characters? Does that not exclude Garou as well? Very good point. Ahem, anyone?

[Pheonix Planesrender]

I agree on the Garou thing. Vamps and Garou/Warewolfs would both be listed under the Non SW Characters. Any comments from the peanut galleries?

[Marcus Telcontar]

SFTU = I'm going to Shut the Frell Up and let my actions speak for me.

Can I ask what business it is of yours what I do within my own little cyberspace? If I dont want certain things in a little place of my own, then that's up to me - is it not? I'm not dictating anything here, nor at SWForums, nor do I have the right to. At the Lost Jedi forums .... that's different and I make no excuse or apology for my behaviour at my little place.

[Pheonix Planesrender]

Its called being hypocritical. Saying one non sw thing cant be in there and another can. And cyberspace is not just yours. tons of people will be looking at that. It is stupid.

[Levi Argon]

I think what he is pointing out that you said no non-SW characters, Xazor is Garou which is essentially non-SW. I think in trying to be open and accomodating what you have unfortunately done is opened up a can of worms and now there are many here who are both confused anc concerned. I'm confused but not so much concerned as I have no objection to this Lost Jedi project, it's your ball to run with.

[Marcus Telcontar]

And......? What is your point Phoenix? I dont want certain character types to be there. So..... what's the problem? Does it affect anywhere else other than there? You know, it also means I dont want Star Trek or The Wiggles or Bananas in Pyjamas. If you dont like it, then dont go there, your quite free to exercise that right you know.

[Figrin D'an]

Marcus, no one is saying that you can't do this. Your RP path is whatever you choose it to be. We mearly have questions and concerns about how this is going to be developed.

Your openness is appreciated. But, you have to admit... as you have laid things out thus far, this venture is very vague from our perspective. We need more information. We want to understand the who and what and why, because it seems to have a definate effect on the GJO itself. If it doesn't, we need to be assured of that. If it does, then there are some concerns we have that must be addressed.

No offense, but taking a "STFU" attitude about this is not going to help. It's only going to make people raise more questions and greater concern about this. In your FAQ, you have stated things that would appear, as I said, to directly effect the GJO. When people see something that is going to potentially effect the group of which they are a part... they're going to want answers to all of those questions that I posed earlier.

[Pheonix Planesrender]

Yes I understand that you disagree with us "non sw characters" but it is a little pathetic to ban us like that. Should Das be baned from there because he is an elf? A non sw character? Or how about the mongoose guys? Or the cirs? You are excluding alot of people. Its being prejudice on them dont you think?

[Verse Dawnstrider]

That and the fact that one out of its two members is not a Non-Star Wars char.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Again I ask Phoenix - what concern is it of yours? If Das, or Sejah wish to stroll on by, then I woud welcome them. They have fitted themselves into Star Wars - but spirital based Vampires, ghosts, ghouls, Undead, Captain Picard and Pokemon, no. Garou are at theur heart shapechangers. Their form goes to wolves. Was there not a shapechanger in AOTC? Also, I have made it quite clear a "vampire" who physically feeds on blood but get no benifit or special powers because he / she is a vampire, isnt an issue in past discussions. It's where you start getting into the Undead, that is where I go no way. That is why I said Spiritial Vampires. There is a big, big difference.

Okay Master Figrin, I can answer that for you. I dont want to have a STFU attitude, which is why I do want to be open. And I do not mind questioning. I do however get my hackles up on talk of expelling.

1) Effect on the GJO - probably none. We're not recruiting from the ranks, nor are we training other Jedi in our ways. Nor are we leaving. The base premise is that there is danger coming that the Jedi ways are not really equipped to handle - and Marcus, who has never really followed the Jedi Code to the letter, sees this and is deciding to go against it in his own way.

Tjis might help - this is part of the synopsis and backstory I have been setting out. There is a lot more, but I think this is the pertinant part


"Now - the sword has been smashed, DT's soul released. Helenias and Marcus are reunited, Xazor now a third party and Helenias' daughter by adoption. However, Marcus really is begiing to realise his place is not amongst the GJO, because he thinks far too different and he is seeing the sign of danger that the other Jedi just simply dont. As he has a kindred spirit with Xazor, Marcus makes a move on somethign that had been on his mind (mine for about a year and been idly thinking of on and off), and begins The Lost Jedi. A secret Force user group it will be, dedicated to challenging the evil that is approaching, with vastly different means.

So where did that come from? The Warriors was intended to be this, but I've thought twice. The Lost are goign to use a lot of the resources and backstory I've developed and it runs on from Assasins Inc, the NRSF and the Warriors. It's basis in thought was about the time of RSO and I'm taking some of those ideas and placing them within The Lost. The Lost themselves are Force users who just dont agree with the teachings of the present, they just simply will not use conventional means and there is no reason a Dark Sider might be attaracted and find themselves turned, within a Jedi group - it would seem attractive, but at it's heart is a total commitment to the Light Side and what is right. It's intended to be a small group, a very secretive group, based on Coruscant and also having a refuge on Trilith. I've insisted that we both must still be in the Jedi Order, as this could be an intersting set of sub plots and we both must execute our duties totaly and not lead others down the Lost path (Dont really know how that will work, we'll work on that on the fly). Other prospective memebers must also do the same, be able to wrok independantly and stay secret, no matter where they come from.

The Lost will also learn a few powers Marcus has come up with or learned other Jedi dont know. One basic one will be the way Marcus Hides in the Force, not by willing himself to disappear, but to merge WITH the Force, to become one with it and not influence it it. This means we have absolutly no positive effect, but are able to sense and feel. Once we try to use the Force outside of reception, we give ourselves away. Now, Marcus IC knows a few anicent techniques (Malachi, Morischu and also he found out the ancient technique of the Death Touch, which he sure as helll aint going to teach anyone below Master), the is alos Shadowing. it's a very powerful Hide, with one big, big difference - you have to be cloaked and your face unseen. To expose your face means that the viewer will be seized by total irrational fear. One's tryign to touch the Lost with the Force, will be hit with the same irrational fear. While this is capable of incapacitating even powerful foes, there is no other Force ability allowed to be used when Shadowing is active. Even Danger sense is suppressed. It seems more of a Sith ability, but that's a result of Marcus never having a Master - he's willing to use techniques that are shady at best (no pun intended)

The question of if the Lost are Dark or Light is a theme I intend to use. When rumours of the Lost surface, I'd like doubts to their motives and questions on what side of the Force they are. I view The Lost as a wild card, a group without known affiliations. There is large business interests and the rabbit hole is indeed deep with them. A Jedi if they ever IC work out what is going on, will find quite a staggering set of deceptions, true to Marcus' deceptive and hidden history. "

[Lady Vader]

(Too lazy to switch names.)

Right, ok. I'm confused.

[Ki-Adi Kindo]

All I am saying is the following:

1)- No longer should members of this group be in any way affiliated with the GJO, we follow strict rules, and if you plan to stay around, so should you. The Lost Jedi ideals go against those of the GJO, so i guess you see my point. If you don't FULLY obey the GJO laws, dont follow us at all. Just last week the GJO denied padawan Ansatsu's request to teach a form of martial arts, but you go about creating a secret group cause you feel like it? This to me, appears to be some attempt to make a few chosen people better than the rest, which to me is what Marcus has always tried to be.(no offense, just tring to be honest) Play by the rules, thats all i gotta say.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I have no problem with the Idea of 'Lost Jedi'. For a while I would have said Verse fit in that catagory really easy. My problem, if you can call it that, is this. How can a person that doesn't agree with teh way GJO fully works be on teh council? If your char is goin' around doin' things the GJO would not do, one souldn't be on the council

s for Tempel access: We have had members of teh NR and Gungan Council in Avolon becaus ethey were allies. If teh Lost are allies, then Tempel access is ok with me.

[Diego Van Derveld]

I agree...if you're essentially going to drop out of existance and go "under cover" or whatever, then for multiple reasons, you should not be in GJO, first and foremost being that, to those of us left behind...you've vanished. Be it that we think you died, disappeared, betrayed us, etc...there's no reason at all to keep your seats warm, if you're so covert as to convince us that you are gone. The addage is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. There would be consequences for this disappearance, and that would be that your lives, as they had once been, would be over.

[Wei Wu Wei]

I don;t mind them having access to the Temple.

I would like Xazor to be taken off of the council because of the double standard that is set.

Why: The Padawans are having a hard enough time being good little Jedi. The council members set the example. Xazor is a double standard. It says, "You kids can;t be aggressive, or anything, but we council members can get mad and throw stuff and do things that tend toward the darkside."

I would like Xazor off the council, for the Padawans' sake. It's hard enough being a padawan and getting fussed at by the council as it is.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Really.

Kindo, you have no idea just how much I have a history of disobeying the Council and doing my own thing. That's plain outright Marcus. Other GJO characters I play follow the rules. Marcus is not a Padawan, not by any stretch of the imagination. A good deal of Marcus' ideals however ARE what the GJO is based on, becuase he (OOC and IC) is a founding member.

Now, I have gone off and even disguised the fact Marcus was even Jedi and yet still helped out the Order in more ways than I could swiftly list. If there is one thing Marcus has, it's loyalty to people and what he believes in, not words or rules. He has always been the Qui Gon Jinn of this Order and will always remain so. If he was a Padawan, then yes, smack him down. But he's not. He's a powerful Jedi Master who absolutly is committted to himself and also to his friends and what he regards as family - and has always, time and time again proven it, no matter his guise.

So his thoughts are right now -

"OKay, so I dont believe the Council are ever going to believe that the threat is no longer truly just the Dark Side. I have to do something about it. What can I do, the Jedi will never go with playing dirty? But I cant just sit by and not do anyhing, becuase it is not the Jedi way!"

What Marcus really wants is about 100 hectares of farmland and a few nerfs to herd. But, he's simply too driven to while he sees evil about. Marcus hiself makes a facinating (to me) mental study, because he is clearly not 100% sane and he has always had some strange knowledge gaps and differences in opinion.

And gor god's sake, talk of dismissal off the Council is plain mixing OOC and IC. Has she shown IC is? Or even mentioned it? Have we even said we are no longer going to participate? Ypu have not even seen us act fully, because this has not even begun! How can you judge someone's actions BEFORE they happen? Do not even think of punishing her for something she has not really even done, or for actions you THINK may happen. If you IC catch us doing something, then you have a point. Hell, I dont even really know what IC we will quite do as yet, I only have a few ideas and one of them is to pester Millard and Balmorra, and to IC offend a fairly major Cizerack.

[Diego Van Derveld]

So he has a Cinncinnatus complex? Ok. Been there before. I'll say this...the only reason action wasn't taken the last time you had an AWOL crusade was that we were all too confused at WTF you were doing to be able to comment on it. At least now, some advance notice is given, and we can figure out what you're up to.

Nobody's trying to dictate what you're doing with your Lost Jedi group. That is neither here nor there. But the consequences of that group do exist here.

[Wei Wu Wei]

That's right. IC Xazor is going to be doing some iffy things. So, it is for that reason that most of us ask that she step down. Do understand Marcus. Not meaning to rain on your parade, pal.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I say again - you have yet to clearly see what is going to happen. If you had, then fine, you might have a point. But you have not. Xazor may well act 100% within guidelines - just your judging her before the fact?

That's not fair in the slightest.

[Figrin D'an]

I think things are a little more clear now... maybe. :\


I'm going to have to think about this for a while... I see what you want to do here, Marcus, but I need to spend some time analyzing everything...



Hypothetical situation:

Let's say this works, and the Lost Jedi start to do their thing. The rest of the Jedi don't know IC anything about this, save Yog and Helenias? Correct? Okay. Let's say, for whatever reason, an series of IC events allows for the Council to discover that something is going on. They investigate, and find out that there is a conspiracy (from their point of view) going on, involving a few high ranking Jedi members. The Council then has to make a serious decision on what to do about the situation, and how to deal with who is involved.

What if the Council decides excommunicate the people involved? Is this something that everyone involved with this potential storyline is willing to risk and accept if it should come to that?



Again... hypothetical situation... I just want to explore the possibilities.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Figrin, I see that possibility entirely. Now Yog and Helenias know, they may even decide to spill all first.

I think you have the idea exactly Figrin and the IC potential consequences. You have hit the bantha square on the head - thats Exactly how things could go.

Or on the other hand you find out, think it over and nod in approval, if it's not that far outside guidelines. To me, that's the part of the idea and the RP senario - prolonging the point where discovery is made, then the questioning and then ..... well.... that depends on the IC actions to come. Whatever is written in the FAQ means jack unless actions square up. What's the actions goign to be? I actually dont 100% know, I cant predict the future.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Edit: Ok read teh post and thought about what I needed to post.

I agree with the thing about mixing OOC with IC. We can't touch your char IC for OOC stuff we now or our feelings OOC. I have no problem with a second 'group' that you are starting. I do not want to see Xazor taken off the Council yet. As it is, this new group hasn't done anything wrong. Now, if she starts to do all the stuff in the FAQ, I feel she should resign because she is not following GJO rules. If she does not, and the GJO finds out that she is apart of this group, wiether she is doin' all the stuff or not, she shoudl be removed from teh council and not allowed back on for a certain amout of time.

the same goes for ANYONE who knows about this group IC and does not tell the Council of GJO. If you know a dude kills someone, and you don't tell, your goin' to jail with him. I think the same should apply here.

This goes on teh same lines as what Fir said for teh most part.

[Diego Van Derveld]

I agree :)

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Me and Charely are agreeing on alot of stuff lately....tis very very strange.

[Sejah Haversh]

Okay, I think I understand a bit better now. I was so confused at first I didn't know what to think.

What has been revealed now makes me more comfortable with it, but, Sejah might not be. That's just the way he is. He never had anythign other than his honor and virtue, and he holds them very precious. I'll watch and let this unfold, but, Marcus, if anybody is going to be watchign you and studying your actions, it will probably be Sejah. He wants to learn, and wants to know more about Marcus to see what he can learn from him. Marcus doesn't know it, but, as Sejah learns to read, he's going to become quite the little detective.

So, OOC I understand this now, but IC, Sejah might be a bit curious as to know jsut where his master dissappears to all the time, and who he goes with.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Still, I am getting a very uncertain read off of this. To me, OOC, this looks a might like an "above the law" sort of endeavor... More than a bit to hazy/risky/unexplained for my tastes. IC, Ryla would feel that this is a slap in the face for all she's worked hard to earn. A very hypocritical double standard that, IMHO, does not justify whatever interesting end result you may or may not have dreamt up. I think that what the Jedi (whatever you call them nowadays...) need now more than ever is cohesion, not fragmentation, not breaking the group, separating the fighters from the scholars.

I'm not gonna tell you what you can and can't do with your ideas, far from it... Creativity is what makes this little place run, no? However, I would caution all of us to be more attentive of people that our outside of our own circle of friends. :)

[Helenias Evenstar]

He was Damned because he did and he would have been damned if he didnt. Not expected.

While I would agree some confusion at the early post and the deliberatly vague FAQ, I would say that some of you really ought to be reviewing what you have said in reply. It angers me greatly to see calls for resignations, all the more so because of what they both have done and will continue to do for you all here.

That must really leave a sick taste in the mouth to see that, especially given the hours Marcus puts in and also his personal loyalty to the Jedi concepts over the years. It is even more sickening to see calls for Xazor of be offed from the Council.

That is low. That is truly a low and disgusting act and you should be ashamed for such calls. She has a far better heart - and a good heart mind you as well - than many others do and I'm afraid it's been shown already. If anyone else had said anything like this, no matter their position, I know what they both would have said - Marcus especially would have gone out of his way to help out, to question and to make suggestions.

I'll put it much more bluntly - grow up. Calling for resignations is not of the group I first joined and it is not traditional of the group I viewed from afar. I honestly think that Xazor, whom is in on this as a roleplay and for fun from what I know, is going to be very, very bitter and upset. Rightly so too. Who gave any of you the right to sit in judgement, especially as I have seen others act contrary to the Jedi and then Marcus personally welcome them back?

Alright, enough of the rant.

I personally know the real intentions and I would say that they are not to harm the Jedi - if anything, it is to build them up. To myself, it's an interesting idea we have both worked on and planned - while it's unusual that he should forewarn, it's an interesting idea - what happens if a Jedi Master starts to question himself and that around him? What would he do?

And why has he decided to stay within the Jedi? Well, because I know he loves this place and wants to be a part of it.

I would finally add, what he and I tend to do (and you may believe this or not) is that we personally have no interest in power, despite words contrary occasionally - Marcus is a character study, it is a figment of his imagination - as are all characters. This is a game, a roleplay. Some of you seem to forget that and are taking this as a personal slight. It is not - it is a continuation of the game. Reading more than that into it and you are wrong. Game, people. This is not fighting for sheep stations.

My apologies for being outspoken (as I am want to do I guess), but I do take exception to some very, very uncalled for statements that in my opinion, must be withdrawn and withdrawn immediatly.

[Oriadin]

I think things have gotten a little out of hand here. Ive read over a couple of RP's where Marcus has mentioned The Lost so perhaps my understanding of it was a little better than most.

The way I see it is that Marcus seems to want to take a much more hands on approach in solving the problems in the Galaxy. The Jedi Council want to talk about it more. Im not saying that either side is right or wrong, thats just the way it is. Qui Gon always said should do what he must. The force would guide him. Marcus is very much the same.

Now, OOC we all have a rough idea of how we think this group will act and go about thier business. Some, think it is against what the Jedi stand for. Fair enough. IC none of us know anything. None of us know whats going on and I doubt any of us will for some time. So in that respect we cannot say whether or not Marcus and Xazor should be allowed on the council or infact in the temple. They have done nothing yet, right or wrong.

Even IC, they are still Jedi. They are choosing to take a more aggressive role but they are still Jedi. This should entitle them to still have access to the temple. Anakin killed several Tuskans and was still a Jedi. We dont just throw them out, we try to council them and try to reason with them. We find out why they do certain things and then if there is a good enough reason for them to not be part of the order. As it stands though they have done nothing at all wrong so we can not take away their right to post here or be part of the council.

Even if a member has taken a darker route to using the force, if they are still amoung us, it is the Jedi who vote who decide if they should be on the council or not. If I thought that Xazor was to violant to be on the council, I simpy dont vote for her. This is a democract after all.

As it stands I think we should all take a step back, allow Marcus and whoever else to do what they want to do and see how it develops. In the future we may decide they are not in the right frame to be amoung the Jedi and expel them from the Temple but as Marcus said, that could make very interesting RP and is possibly part of his plan.

[Helenias Evenstar]

The way I see it is that Marcus seems to want to take a much more hands on approach in solving the problems in the Galaxy. The Jedi Council want to talk about it more. Im not saying that either side is right or wrong, thats just the way it is. Qui Gon always said should do what he must. The force would guide him. Marcus is very much the same.

That's not a bad way to say it. You have a good way with words.


Even if a member has taken a darker route to using the force, if they are still amoung us, it is the Jedi who vote who decide if they should be on the council or not. If I thought that Xazor was to violant to be on the council, I simpy dont vote for her. This is a democract after all.

Oh, I have seen some of the Jedi that have sat on the Council. She's a peacemaker in comparision.


That's right. IC Xazor is going to be doing some iffy things. So, it is for that reason that most of us ask that she step down. Do understand Marcus. Not meaning to rain on your parade, pal.

No Wei. Nothing is done. You do not have the right to ask of that. None of you do. What you do have the right to do is to say, well I dont quite understand. Could you please explain? I would say Figrin, yet again shows the way it is to be done.

Now, what if say someone on the Council comes forward and says"I am going to go to the Dark Side, but I wish to do so in this manner (say, because going insane, or something happened and gets consumed)....." - you would even then not have the right to call for explusion or a step down, not without a hearing and not without putting forward ideas and a why and wherefore. It would even be an interesting roleplay set to view.

Well, in this case I await to see what unfolds with interest and what part I could possibly be of it. No, I'not part of it, except for planning up to now. What is in the maniac's mind, I do not presume to know.Whatever it is, it will be interesting and possibly quite different and compelling to read - least I hope so.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

No one is trying to single Marcus,a nd Xazor out, and people are only expressing what they beleieve should be done. They Opinions. Inshort, someone else needs to 'grow-up' as well.

On that note I will adress a few things again. I still believe one can NOT dance on teh line between Light and Dark, play Rambo one minite and Hippy Flower Child the next, Do thing syou know are VERY much against GJO rules, and still be on the council. If she is doing all of this, and she knows it, then she should remove herself. If she doesn't she is being two-faced and not honest about it. The same goes for if she knows about it and doesn't say anything.

As for what Oridadin said On the Anakin thing, That anger he showed while killing the Tusken Raiders is suppost to be what causes him to fall from teh Jedi and change into Darth Vader. The Council did not find out about it as well.If you read the book AOTC, he find he was in a rage and killed woman and child with no regret. Also keep in mind Anakin was a PADAWAN. He was in hi slearnings tage. He was not a Knight, a Master, or a Council Member. If Yoda desided to do mass genocide on the Trade Federation, I am very sure he would have been off his Council spot and under investigation.

[Wei Wu Wei]

I think that this is not a question of whether or not the Lost Jedi are ok to have around, but the focus is instead on Xazor. I know that there are a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people that do not like her IC or OOC. The council issue is just another thing that they can find wrong with her.

[Helenias Evenstar]

Verse, I hope that you realise that nothing has happened apart from some talk. I also believe these so called rules dont exist, for I have not seen them. You have your tearing warriors, and you have your whacky weed smokers here. Good mix I say. I have my own idea on what a Jedi is and it would not tee up with the ideal. Does it matter? It's a game and we all have our different ideas and ways to do things.

Do players do stupid things? Yes.

Are they stopped? No

Are they punished? IC or OOC? I hope not. That's an even worse mistake for a Jedi to make.

Tell me Verse, are you one of the many people here whom has at one time been in the Dark Side and then welcomed back? Have you been always mistake free? Have you been totally clean and totally Jedi like? Tell me of your history and tell me if you have done somethign wrong or non Jedi like. Me? Oh, I have. I scored myself a nice Jedi temple that is probably still smoking three years later. I guess that leaves us out of the Jedi, does it not?

But I was welcomed, that I like. I would hope anyone else would get the same treatment. Another principle of the Jedi is forgiveness and a willingness not to judge until acts are committed.

If your opinions are not matched by facts, then the discussion is mute. Opinion is..... xxxxxxxxx. The facts are..... nothing has happened. Until facts meet opinions, then there is nothing to comment on.

[Helenias Evenstar]

I think that this is not a question of whether or not the Lost Jedi are ok to have around, but the focus is instead on Xazor. I know that there are a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people that do not like her IC or OOC. The council issue is just another thing that they can find wrong with her.

So, your suggesting it's used as an excuse for this with IC and OOC dislikes to be rid of her? Your being brave if you are.

IC, well, whatever. I'm sure IC there are those that dont like others. Using Out of Character dislike to rid of her? Wei, I honestly and truly hope that is not the case, because that is a low act. That is TSE material. That is TSC. That is scum material. Please, that can not be case. I refuse to accept low life like that would be here.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I am sorry miss high and mighty. Also me to kiss your feet for I have sinned.......

Read what I post and then THINK about a reply before you make one. I NEVER said they should be expelled from GJO. I said I beleive they should be allowed Temple access because they are allies of GJO. I ONLY said that people that support this IC should be be allowed on the Council. I agrued a point simlar to this only a few days ago. Everyone, Including Xazor, said that GJO follow it traditions. Just because you wish to only see teh ones you beleive in is not my fault. I believed, and still strongly do, that Anu should have been allowed to teach that ninja class even though he is a padawan. Why? It is not a Force class and therefor being a padawan had nothing to do with it. You kno what everyone besides one other said? We follow traditions here at GJO. I did not, and still do not, agree with that tradition, but you know what? I had to suck it up and deal with it. Why? Because they are right. It is a tradition. I may not agree wth it, but I have to follow it. And....well I follow it.

As for my 'story', No. Verse never once fell from Grace, then returned to the Jedi. Verse's brother was a member of TSE and caused havok over here, but he wasn't Verse. Verse came from Eden...straight to here. Have I done stuff Un-Jedi Like? Yes. Have I been punished for it? Yes. I have punished for the stuff I have done. I had to work my way back up to let others know I would not do it again. I am not saying one should be perfect, but on a subject like this one should be punished.

If you look at what me and others have said fully and not with blinder on, then you will see that I said action should not be taken till IC we learn what is goin' on. No one said "Xazor is off right now." People are just letting ya'll know ahead of time how we think and will react. This was placed here because Marcus wanted us to know before hand, well I am just returnin' the favor. I am lettin' youknow how I will react before hand.

Xazor nor Marcus are innocents victems. You can say all you want, but I have seen how Innocent Xazor is. She called a woman to teh table and verbally, and physically, attacked her because she felt this woman had no rigth talking to verse. The woman said she grew up wth verse and only sihe dto see an old friend. Nothing sexual or anything. Xazor said she didn't care and attacked her. I am not only picking out parts of that conversation. that is how it really went. Behold the wonders of a Peacemaker.

I am not the only one that holds this opinion. You notice almost everybody that has replie dto this trhead does not agree with it this idea dn have said when the time comes IC then they will act no different than they are now. One a couple of people that have replied to this thread agree with y'all.

Hell, I guess if almost everyone in this thread sees the same view on it (against it) then maybe it is GJO tradition that our council memebrs and Masters not dance on the line between Light and Dark. Or all of us could be wrong and you three be right. I am betting on the former though.

[Wei Wu Wei]

IC, well, whatever. I'm sure IC there are those that dont like others. Using Out of Character dislike to rid of her? Wei, I honestly and truly hope that is not the case, because that is a low act. That is TSE material. That is TSC. That is scum material. Please, that can not be case. I refuse to accept low life like that would be here.

Well, IC and OOC I have no real opinion of Xazor.

IC, I have only sparred with Xazor, and she was a little loud and harsh involving a thread concerning the custody of a kid.

OOC I have only really posted with Xazor in the thread wreck. So, I will remain neutral on Xazor. I just felt like Xazor deserved a fair warning for when the others come and are "low."

[Sene Unty]

I find the whole concept behind the Lost Jedi to be a very tempting idea. I will watch for the coming actions with growing intrest. I am here after all to write stories.....not to get into the philosophy of what is right and wrong in the world. I also would like to commend Marcus for his brutal honesty in this matter. I like how he simply came out to tell us rather than leave us grasping at strings in the dark. Thank You. :D

[Marcus Telcontar]

I think that this is not a question of whether or not the Lost Jedi are ok to have around, but the focus is instead on Xazor. I know that there are a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people that do not like her IC or OOC. The council issue is just another thing that they can find wrong with her


:: Steps back slowly from lit bomb ::

Wow. That's a thermal det thrown into the Council room if i have ever seen one.

Only comment - IC reasons, yeah whatever. That just roleplay.

OOC BS reasons - low act. Very low act. About as low as you can go. Yeech. :x But, we are all above that, aint we?


I just felt like Xazor deserved a fair warning for when the others come and are "low."

Oooooooh boy. Xaz, please dont post. I know that's going to make you go up like bomb and I think you have a right to do that.... but..... please dont. Not on that. If you want to vent, PM me.

I think we shoul dbe steering clear of that> It has biiiiiig argument written all over it.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

::doesn't like that bomb as well.::

I will say this right now. I have NOTHING against Marcus, and Xazor, IC and/or OOC. Both have well played chars and are good members of GJO. I do not know anyone that wnats them bthgone ASAP and are desideding to use this against them. I am sure GJO will mourn if they left and many want them to stay.

The issue is not about Xazor, it is on that fact a 'seperist', if you will, may be on the Council IC in some time. It would not matter if Marcus, Me, Laim, Xazor or anyone was there. The same conversation would be taking place. What do we do when a Master and a Council Member start doing things GJO do not believe in. That is what I am arguin' about. I love Xazor/Barb IC and OOC. She is just stuck in the posision in question. Not just because she is Xazor, but because of the path she may take IC with the position she holds.

[Sene Unty]

I think we shoul dbe steering clear of that> It has biiiiiig argument written all over it.

yes I agree. we should be talking about the IC decisions that are being made...not the OOC actions that may have happened.

[Marcus Telcontar]

It's more likely that discussion, if it took place would be about me - and that is what it should be. IF I acted out of line and IF I was IC caught. That's ifs tho. Maybe I behave actually really well. Maybe Xazor is a shining light. MAybe we set an incredible example - that's just as likely to happen. Lets not talk about events that have not yet come to pass - cross that when / if it comes to that. At the moment, it's an OOC notification we're doing smoething on our own. I did not need to give that, but I have. I wanted openness and I wanted t be straight up.

Really, in the end.... it's more likely I would be under question if things got out of hand. Not her.

[Oriadin]

I agree with you on that Marcus. Im keeping out of that one. I think some people are getting a little wound up by this thread and I see no reason why. There is no need. Lets just talk about this sensibly and calmly without making it personal to anyone.

Now, Verse... What exactly is it your saying. What is your opinion on this. Are you saying you dont think this should go ahead? Are you thinking Xazor shouldnt be on the council, im not sure im exactly clear.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

The idea of a group of people workin' alone does not bother me to much. The fact Xazor is on teh council doens't bother me to much. The thing that worries me is that they even said they may do some things that are very close to the Dark Side. When they start to dance on that line I feel action should be taken.

If this Group does not do anything that contridicts GJO tradions, then I don't see a problem. The OOC at teh page leads us to beleive that is excastly what they group is about. They don't agree with GJO traditions so they plan to do there own thing. If tehgroups, with xazor in it, follows that path I do not see how she can be on the Council? She woudl be makin' important choices on issues she joined a second group because she doesn't believe in them.

Marcus said this group will be addressing more things than just "stoping the Dark Side." He gave examples of thinsg with teh Ciz and stuff. I see nothing wrong with that. GJO has had many branchs dealing with that in teh past. Ravenwing, GJO Pseiecal Forces (which I was a member of, as well as Liam), and now a warrior caste.

I have nothing against the fact the plan to work alone for a bit. I just have problems with teh means by which they want to use in order to address the things they wish.

I'll PM you in a sec Marcus about something to clear up anything between us and some questions I have.

[Oriadin]

So in that case, by what your saying, it should go ahead without any initial problems. IF the council find out about it and IF Marcus and Xazor do something against the Jedi ways, then I belive there will be something to discuss. But not until then.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

There should not be an IF. All that have spoken, and I will say again I am by far not the only one to hold this opinion all the other Jedi save a few has agreed with me and posted similar, can only go by what we know. That is that this group is wanting to tread on VERY thin ice. They want to dance on the line between Light and Dark, while havin' one of there members on the council. Alot of people do not agree with that.

I will also stress again. If you FULLY read what me and other have written, all of us have said we will see IC what will happen before taking IC action. Fig' even came up with a IC story idea. Most everyone only wants it to be known that they don't agree with this groups possible ways of doin' things. The OOC states the group was made because there memebers did not agree with GJO stuff. If they don't agree with it, and make a privite group, most see that as a seperatist movement. That is teh problem people are having. Not that he wants to do his own thing, but that way he wants to do it.

[Kelt Simoson]

Im affraid if Marcus so wishes to do this Kelt will be looking for a New Master also....

[Sanis Prent]

My beef with it is that the Lost members are disappearing. Whether they just go awol, fake their death, or whatever, it is the appearance of vanishing from the order. Whether they actually have or not isn't necessarily at issue. Its what do we do with that perceived, IC action? Well we'd have to do something regarding these absences. We can't hold seats for somebody. We can't retire jersey numbers. Nothing immediate...I'm talking about when such action was taken and felt by the council.

As for IC/OOC beefs with Xazor, yes, there are a lot of people with them. But nobody comes through here without attracting such things. Its not the issue. IC, Anbira thinks she's a liability with one foot dragging in the darkside. OOC, she is an eager, enthusiastic person, who's only discernible fault is that she needs to learn how to laugh at herself and take occasional constructive criticism. OOC has no precedent in ANY of these decisions. IC could...but only under the most particular of circumstances. There's a plethora of checklist items that would have to be checked off before you could look at the big picture and decide to take action here. The mistake that we shouldn't make is to take what is potentially IC in theory here, and act on it now. Nothing is written in stone, so sit back and see how it progresses.

[Oriadin]

Exactly, I think Sanis has it. Verse, there are only IF's at the moment because they havent done anything yet. Your forgetting that your characters have no idea what is going on yet. You cant decide whether you agree or disagree with what they are doing if you dont even know what they are doing. So as I said above...

IF the council find out about it and IF Marcus and Xazor do something against the Jedi ways, then I belive there will be something to discuss. But not until then.

[Sanis Prent]

Precisely :)

Its all the intangible future. Such as what I plan with Anbira in the Laenos Lith. I honestly have no idea how that would be taken, but I've been planning that damn thread for a year and a half, and still hasn't come to fruition.

I admittedly do take a bit of pleasure in the IC prospect of possibly finding out that Xazor is doing naughty things. Anbira's developing a kind of hellfire & brimstone demeanor, and the thought of being able to stand up and shout "Aha! Infidel!" is kinda worth a chuckle.

[Wei Wu Wei]

Thank yu, Sanis Prent. I now have nothing else to say. I am satisfied. You kids have fun with your new group!

:)

[Figrin D'an]

alright...

I've spent some more time thinking about this, and I think I have a reasonable solution, as well as a few observations...


Firstly... there is still a lot of jumbling of IC and OOC information. Everything that has been said here is OOC. I think, and hope, that everyone understands this. Nevertheless, there is still some issues here that need to be clarified, most of them surrounding the status of Xazor as a council member and a member of the Lost Jedi. I'll get to that in a moment. For now, let us understand that there are differing perspectives on this. The major issue: Those with concerns are treating this as an OOC matter involving member status and position, whereas those without see this as a strictly IC matter, and part of individual character development.


Secondly... let's avoid the personal cuts and insults... for the most part, this hasn't been to much of a problem... but I have noticed a couple in some of the more recent posts in this thread... anyone who tries to turn this into a flame fest is going to get the administrative boot... that includes anyone that feels they have the right to "defend" themselves from existing comments... that is not an excuse... it will all stop here and now. I suggest you all comprehend this before you start typing your latest replies.



Now... the real issue.

This seems to have been one big ugly misunderstanding. Unfortunately, these things happen. Marcus wants to take his character in a new direction. He wants Xazor to be a part of that, and she has agreed, from what I can determine. Helenias and Yog both will be a part of this, at least on the periphery by having IC knowledge of certain plot points. Those facts are not disputed.

Let's remove the title "Lost Jedi" for a moment. Don't think about that. Focus only on the proposed plotline. A few Jedi choose to change some of their philosophies in order to take on a challenge that they feel threatens something that they care about. Moral questions arrise. Conflicts of interest become inherent. Danger faces them on multiple fronts.

Sounds like a pretty decent story... perhaps something that is not so different from the general frame of plotlines that many of us come up with for our own RPs.

The sticking point has been with the idea that this a new group. At first, this was how I interpreted this annoucement. With a little more information, it seems to be more of a small cadre of Jedi on a mission or quest. Many times, we have had Jedi that go on missions that lead them to make "questionable moral decisions." It's a good way to make you character more interesting. At the core, this venture does not seem all that different.

Okay... the other major point of controversy...

It would seem inappropriate for someone who is going to be defying Jedi principles and skirting the Dark Side in their actions to serve as a council member. I would agree with that assessment. From an OOC point of view, the choice is clear... expulsion. Now, that said, let's consider a few things. Firstly, the IC knowledge of the aforementioned behavior is limited. Few people know, and the whole of the Council is not aware. This begins as a quite secretive matter. Secondly, the person in question has not exhibited suspect behaviors IC yet. From my understanding, IC events of this plotline are in the most prelimary stages at the moment.

If a Council member were to simply annouce that they were leaving the Order, or turning to the Dark Side... the issue is moot, because the necessary action is clear. In the past, we have had Jedi do things IC that were later questioned by the Council, leading to punishment of varying degrees. The key word being "later." We all know what is going on OOC... this thread is evidence of that. But, IC, we are all essentially in the dark. Until we have IC evidence demonstrating that there is reason to investigate a given Jedi... there is no probable cause for IC punishment. (Lets be clear as well... there is a difference between IC punishment and OOC punishment, and distinct barrier between them. There seem to be calls for OOC punishment for IC deeds... that isn't appropriate. The only time when there is a reason to cross that line is when dealing with infiltration.)


From my POV... I am tending toward letting this play out and see how things develop, with the understanding that I now have of the intent of this venture. This discussion thread is important, because it has place some issues on the table that should be thoroughly dissected. There are some additional questions for which I need answers, but I think we are on the right track.

As I stated in my hypothetical situation, if IC evidence arrises that prompts suspicion, and leads to an investigation... those involved with this plotline simply need to understand that there very well could be major IC consequences for your actions. This isn't going to be a detatched storyline that, when over, drifts away and allows you to return to normal Jedi duties. Some characters have staunch devotions to Jedi tradition, and they will push for not only removal from the Council, but expulsion from the Order, if this is revealed. I know Marcus understands this. I want to hear confirmation from the others on this as well. Even Helenias and Yog, be they as respected IC as they are, may be subject to major punishment if it becomes known that they had knowledge of this, and chose not to come forward.


Sorry for the verbosity of my post, but hopefully it clarifies some things...

[Ryla Relvinian]

Thank you, Figrin. You are the rational voice in this place. Let's hope this calms some people down. I know I am. :)

Let's just see how this goes, ok folks?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Im affraid if Marcus so wishes to do this Kelt will be looking for a New Master also....

Nah - I'lll have a chat with you. Already chatted to Sejah. We have worked something out.

One misperception - Marcus will still be in the halls of the Temple. How often, that I dont know. We are not IC packing our bags and leaving. In fact, I've placed the Dexter's bar close enough to The Temple that it wont be a problem commuting.


And.... nicely said Figrin, once again. Nail. Head. Smack :)

[Figrin D'an]

That was actually one of the questions I still had about this... the actual physical presence of Marcus and Xazor, ie. if they were going to vanish for a period of time, or if they were still going to remain at the Temple most of the time, while conducting operations of this storyline behind the scenes. A definative answer to this will help to clarify things even further.


Another is time frame. Is this a short-term, one or two RP concept, or is this going to be a long-term project, covering months or years of RP time?


My other major question/concern has to do with the characters themselves. I understand that you intend to keep this as secret IC as possible, by covering you tracks and limiting knowledge of your intensions. Despite this... if you are going to be pushing the limits of a Jedi's ability skirt the edge of the Dark Side while still maintaining control... there will be people that notice IC. Marcus has powerful abilities, and Xazor has talents as well, but there are some very powerful and perceptive Jedi about that would be able to pick up on even the slightest of changes. While they may not be able to immediately know what is going on, over time, they may begin to suspect and begin to put some puzzle pieces together.

Whether or not that puzzle is solved or not is another matter. But, for this idea to work effectively, I think there has to be room for other Jedi to participate on the periphery by noticing things... unexpected departures, uncommon aloof behavior... it will make things more believable all around, not only for the GJO from an acceptance perspective, but also from the standpoint of the "Marcus case-study" concept.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I will only say this one more time Oriadin and one more time only...

I Never said to take action Now!!!!!!!!!!!! I said we would have to wait till more IC stuff came up. I must have said that at teh begining of my last 5-7 posts. Jeez. Do I need to stress that point? Don't put words in my mouth.

[Oriadin]

Ok, whatever...

[Estelle Russard]

My opinion, for what its worth, is to agree to just let this thing RP out and see what comes of it.

As with all characters who take risks in their stories, ones who attempt to teeter so close to the darkside will feel the consequences from it - whether in their personal experience, or in the reactions of their peers.

Bring on the story, say I.

[Hunk]

I'll save time and bandwidth by saying Verse's last few long posts echo my thoughts exactly.

[Navaria Tarkin]

I think that we should let this play out ... I read this entire thread a day or so ago :lol and caught up with Fig's and a few other people's posts now.

But a request... all threads related to this Lost Jedi plotline be found in a thread somewhere and linked so we all can read and watch how things progress.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I agree with Nav. I would like to have a thread with the link to all of the plotline threads. That would help us all.