Discussion: Chase and Lance

[Figrin D'an]

This needs to happen eventually, so we might as well start talking about it now...

Some decisions need to be made about an appropriate punishment (if one is deemed necessary) for each of these two, and the future of each in GJO.

Now... Chase has stated that he, essentially, is done at SWFans... we can assume that this means he is finished at GJO as well. Some people have claimed that they will attempt to convince him otherwise. That being said, and given that many people who post "I quit" letters seem to pop up again at some point in the future, we need to devise an appropriate course of action... be it temporary banning, total forgiveness, delay of potential promotion, or the like. Considering that he has lost the trust of nearly everyone in this community, he already will have suffered a form of punishment (which is something to consider as well).


As for Lance... apparently, if Chase decides to leave "for good", Lance will as well. As with Chase, that is his perogative. If, however, they decide to stay, again, we will need some kind of punishment...


My personal opinion:

These two have shown an amazing lack of sensical judgement... as has been stated many times, I'm sure there are a lot of us that can empathize with handling the stresses of life, and have thought of doing something similar to what Chase did... however, there is a distinct difference between thought and action.

In my mind, they have both have already suffered (or will suffer through natural progression) a fate worse than any punishment we could bestow upon them... the loss of the trust of their peers.

If they choose to stay, it is my opinion that they not have any official sanctions of any kind imposed upon them... they will simply have to cope with the notion that many people will not want to associate with them, be it in casual conversation or RP. The realization that they emotionally harmed others will prove a far more useful lesson and a far more appropriate "punishment"... certainly when they begin to experience the type of isolation they brought upon themselves.


so... let's open the floor for discussion...

[TheHolo.Net]

Even though I am no staff member of GJO, I would like to recommend one thing. Both should lose their access to Avalon.

Just my opinion, seeing as they have both completely trampled on the trust given them by the community.

[Figrin D'an]

That's not a bad idea... it would be an important symbolic gesture, if nothing else (considering that nothing really secretive occurs in Avalon anyway).

[TheHolo.Net]

Access to Avalon is a trust thing as far as I know, even though I agree, nothing secretive is really posted there.

[Xazor Elessar]

I agree that something needs to be done.....and the priveledge of Avalon should be taken away from both....even if it's just for a short time. That's indeed a trust thing....even if nothing secretive goes on in there.....it's a place where the Jedi are in their own state.....no Sith nor any others are there and they can discuss things freely without interruption....such as important information like promotions and the like.

So to take that away from them would be a good notion.....for I too think that they will punish themselves far worse than anything we could ever do to them.

And if you don't mind my asking.....where was it stated that Lance would leave too???? :\ This situation was out of control to begin with....but everything has just exploded....and it still has me down for some reason...... :(

[TheHolo.Net]

Lance's two resent posts in Avalon have forced my hand. I have disallowed his access to the forum as well as Chase's.

He is doing nothing but trying to start a flame fest. I will continue to watch for him trolling in other forums and if he continues, he will be warned and then if he still continues, banned.

[Xazor Elessar]

o_O I guess I'm missing this.....I'll go look again......

This is waaaay out of control.....and it's ruined a lot of people's days in the recent....mine included. I wish non of this would have happened......*sigh*

EDIT: Okay, I see what you're talking about.....and I agree with you. He was trying to start one helluva big flamefest and that's not how we operate here.......he's adding fuel to the fire that had begun to smolder a bit....... :(

[TheHolo.Net]

Lance basically said in the Chase thread in avalon that ha ha he knew all along and was in on the "joke" *shudder*, and some people replied to that, which is acceptable, but Lance's trying to egg them into a flame fest cannot be tolerated.

He is screaming for negative attention and deserves no attention.

[Xazor Elessar]

Yeah, I edited my post above yours.....so I see what you're talking about.....a very bad idea he had about that.

I can't belive that he's saying all that for attention. How stupid can one person be? Sure, I had my doubts.....many of the same reasons he had listed about it went through my mind, but then I thought, "Hey, all people are different and maybe that was his parents way of dealing with things....." but I guess my sixth sense told me it was fake as well....it just didn't feel right.

*sigh again* It's a terrible thing how everyone is calling this a joke and whatnot.....I guess I don't see what's so hard about asking for a LOA. :\

[TheHolo.Net]

Just so its known. My decision to remove Lance and Chase's access to Avalon is reversable by the staff of GJO. I really have no say what goes on here but was asked to keep an eye on this situation by a GJO staff member, so I have tried to help according to the rules as I know them.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yep, SWfans was watchign the situation at my request, because I just had the feeling it would go nuclear while I was asleep and I did not want to come in and wade through a battle.

I say the loss of access to Chase and Lance stands. They both have to realise that to continue on with this is totally wrong and just wont be tolerated. I'd also agree that they have inflicted more punishment on themselves, cause everyone is going to view them very badly. Chase, okay, that was sort of understandable. Lance however? That was not.

I authorise banning if they try anything else. If they shut up and just roleplay, good, access can be granted back.

[Navaria Tarkin]

trust was broken and my god people, this is a game. You don't play games like this and espeically with Lance egging people on.

Avalon is so open compared to other RPing forums that is used for IC and OOC fun. They broke that trust and the community is based on it.

I agree completely with there access being revoked. Perhaps in time it can be given back but not until A LOT is shown to make up for it

[TheHolo.Net]

I received a PM from Lance as follows:
Hello Mr.net, I guess you know as to why I am PMing you. Yeah you banned me from the temple, which means I've been banned from GJO o_O Yes, why?

1-I got 4 padawans
2-I cant promote them
3- I cant vote
4- I cant participate to general discussions

and finally I've been banned for a really unfair reason. I mean you just bane me like that I'm not mad I'm simply dissapointed because Im gonna have to quit GJO and swfans.net. I really liked it here but now I lost access to the temple I can't continue. Plus a lot of ppl think that what I did was probably the best thing to do. (I will not name them because they precised they didn't want sh-t)Because if I wouldve said "Hey Chase is a liar!" Then you wouldve banned me and dont say its not true. Cause it is ,YOU WOULDVE banned me. WHy? Because everyone believed that it was true. And me just bumping outta nowhere to say"Hey Chase is lying!" That wouldve been really a piece of sh-t from me offensing his memory. But if there is a way for me to regain access back to the temple then tell me. Because I've been working very hard on my character for the past 5 months don't do something like this to me. Plz.

-BrianMy reply to him was that he would have been notified had he been "banned from GJO" and to contact Marcus if he wished to contest his removal from Avalon.

[Figrin D'an]

How hard would it have been for him to contact the board admins, via email, PM, or AIM, and inform them *privately* that the Chase death thing was a fraud? Or perhaps even just request that they look into the possibility that not everything was on the up-and-up in that situation?

He had options besides keeping his mouth shut and letting the facade continue for as long as it did. He knew the truth, and he chose to keep the little secret to himself rather help to defuse the situation before it got ugly.

He can appeal the decision if he wants to. Maybe he'll be re-admitted to Avalon eventually. It doesn't change the fact that he acted foolishly. Maybe when he realizes that, he'll grow up a little...

[Navaria Tarkin]

He can go through the mods here. I agree... and with the promotion and voting well, voting is a priviledge being in avalon.. so he doesn't get it. As with the dicussions because once again, he acted in poor judgement

As for the padawans, if he wants to bring up his students he can ask someone that is in avalon to do the vote for him.

[TheHolo.Net]

I removed his access because he broke people's trust and then came back and tried to start flamewars. Here is the exact text of my response and his subsequent one, which I am chosing not to reply to:
SWFans.Net wrote on 09-20-02 05:07 PM:

If you had been banned you would have been informed. Your access to Avalon has been removed. If you wish to contest that take it up with Marcus.
Lance Stormrider wrote on 09.20.02:
:huh Marcus aren't you the big boss, oh well thanks.I myself though not a staff member of GJO on normal occasions, do agree that he could have gone to the GJO staff and said something to them in confidence, especially after seeing the lengths people were going to in commemoration of Chase. It would have been the honest, upstanding, and right thing to do to proliferate communication and trust.

[Morgan Evanar]

Tell him that he just broke the trust of fifty people at GJO alone, and therefore Avalon access should remain revoked for three months. What they did is pretty much just short of absolutely reprehensible and should be treated as such. Its a privledge, just like driving is. NOT a right.

Do it quietly, but if anyone asks, just say this is what we decided to do. We are going to give them all the attention they deserve: next to none.

Besides, his logic is flawed, and it would boil to word against word - eventually we would have caught Chase. The reality is that he didn't have the spine to speak up when he should have, and now he's trying to whine his way out of it.

If you think I'm being to harsh, you're probably right. I've had a rotten week.

[Marcus Telcontar]

He contacted me. This WOULD be my reply if his frelling mailobx wasnt full.




Lance Stormrider wrote on 09-21-02 11:07 AM:
Woha woha woha caramba. I come back from to discover I've been removen from Temple Avalon Hey why didnt you say "Lance your banned from GJO" Cause thats what you peeps practically did. I spoke with Charley he said "Talk to mr.fans" He said "Talk to Marcus" Very well then.
1-With no access to temple avalon I can't promote my apprentices.
2- I cant vote
3- I cant debate on importasnt topics
4- Im practically not even a member of the GJO

Ive been rping like psycho for the past 5 months. So what do I have to do to get back my access back, because if im not given it back I'd rather quit right away.

-Lance


Dont be making threats to me ever trying to get access back. I'm not the one who has a lynch mob on their tail. While I'm not the one who removed access, I 100% agree with those actions.

Alright, I am simply goign to be blunt. GJO is built on trust and I foster that trust and actively promote it. You, Lance, broke that trust rather badly. You angered a lot of people with what your wrote and your actions and I believe that you owe us all a sincere apology. You have hurt a lot of players with that breaking of trust, both you and Chase. I really dont care what motives there are, there is no excuse that will reparate what has happened.

You will get your access back once an apology is made to us all and not a second before. Once you have done so, I will give access back as soon as I see the apology and I will forget this incident ever happened.

You are not banned from the GJO, you have been removed from the Avalon access list.

Marcus


--

I'm not goign to even think about giving him access to Avalon until I see an apology and I sure as f'k dont take kinfly to what I see as a percieved threat to leave "unless he has access". Stuff him.

When he apologies (When I can send a damn message to him, SWFans, can you see what you can do there?), then he gets access back. Not a second before.

[TheHolo.Net]

About the only thing I can do with a full PM box is raise the limit temporarily.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Can you? Otherwise, I'll post a request for him to empty his PM drop out

[TheHolo.Net]

I just posted a mass request for people that have 90 or more. :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

*Laughs*

Nicely done :)

[Master Yoghurt]

Very clever :)

[Figrin D'an]

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23063

Seems to me that Lance's apology is half-assed at best, and is an attempt at self-justification...

[Navaria Tarkin]

Now the thing is would he have apologized if his access wasn't revoked :p

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Navaria Tarkin
Now the thing is would he have apologized if his access wasn't revoked :p

nope... I guarantee it.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Allright, I'm going to give him his second chance I said I would

Your quite right, of course he would not have. Still, I've seen other RP'ers that have done worse turn out pretty well in the end if given a chance.