"A Jedi Shall Not Know Love"?

[Gurney Devries]

I know this may seem a bit silly, but I was thinking: Many of the members of the GJO (especially the Padawans, but not exclusively) seem to "hook up" - In simpler terms, they arrange to have their character romantically involved with another person's character. Now, with the advent of Episode 2's underlying theme, doesn't that give you reason for pause? Anakin's downfall is supposed to be directly or indirectly related to the fact that he fell in love with a woman.

Now, after finally having restored themselves to their former standing, you'd think the Jedi would be much more prohibitive about these kinds of relationships - I'm sure the memory of Vader's Jedi Purges will not fade quickly from memory.

Where am I going with this? Nowhere, really. Just wanted to bring the issue up for possible discussion.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Well, Mara and Luke are married Jedi. There are quite a number of Jedi that are married now in the books. So ... I guess not <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Considering a Jedi is to be always in control of themselves, the act of being in love changes that. Love is a powerful emotion that a Jedi might not be able to handle hence the Anakin scenario.

this is a good discussion idea

[Xazor]

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Shade and I are getting married, but I won't let that get in the way of Xazor's path. This is a good one for discussion....

[Gurney Devries]

Well, perhaps it's more of a danger to younger, untrained Jedi? Luke was a Jedi Master at the time, and Mara had quite a bit of training (some of which by Luke himself). I think it's safe to say that Anakin broke away from the Jedi while still a Padawan: "When I left you, I was but the Learner."

[Xazor]

Yes, that is true. Warren and Amalia are married and have no problem. Helenias and Marcus....

There are a few, but they aren't having problems, I guess because they are higher in the ranks. Both Shade and I are Knights.....I guess it helps. <img src=http://www.thegjo.com/forum/smileys/biglaugh.gif ALT=":D">

[Navaria Tarkin]

Well, not sure of Anakin was a Padawan still when he broke away. Most likely yes. He could have broken away from the Jedi just to marry Amidala for all we know. Unless you are spoiler freak like Charley <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

[Gurney Devries]

The Jedi of the Old Republic seemed to be a bit more... monastic to me. In fact, female Jedi seemed to be in short number (Yes, there were some - but not many). Not because of a lack of ability, I'd wager: Simply to exclude distraction from their lives.

Or maybe I'm just reading into it a bit much. <img src=http://www.thegjo.com/forum/smileys/magtongue.gif ALT=":p">

And Nav: <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> I know absolutely nothing about the movie. I was just going by what seemed to make sense: Would the Council really make the mistake of promoting someone who had trouble controlling their emotions to the rank of Knight? Also, the quote seemed to fit that theory.

[Navaria Tarkin]

<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Interesting point. Course we didn't see too many Jedi in EP1... that could change in this movie.

[Marcus QDunn]

Firstly I need to say this...


I TOLD YOU ALL SO!!!! Remeber those rather fierce arguments about Jedi relationships we had a few yearas ago? Neyh neyh I win!

:: Super secret Ninja comes out beats Marcus up::

OUCH!!

Anyway....

and secondly, points at himself for breaking Jedi code and wedgys himself


--


Seriously for a moment, I know Jedi relationships are frowned on in the prequels, and to be honest, if you read the Q'Dunn story, we're not actually "together" at this point. As a plot spoiler, we to examine this thing where Marcus believes that he cant be a Jedi and be in love or be married. To find that his love is alive is going to cause a problem in what he believes in - the conflict between the Jedi shall not know love and the fact he does. How Helenias is playing that.... not sure but I think similar.

Personally, Jedi should remain not in a relationship. How people want to roleplay it, well that's up to them to be honest. The Movies and the EU give conflicting views on this issue - the movies do give an authorative answer on this issue now, But we are in the EU timeframe.

I think it be left up to players how it's done. I do think Dark Siders in love cant be done, but again, that my personal belief only. I have to say Deville palys the "torn between love and the Dark Side" well.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I think its proportional to a Jedi's experience and self-control. For a padawan, it would be a dire and dangerous conflict of interests. And Anakin's fall to the dark side is largely resultant of the fact that he cannot let go of the material...be it his mother (think when he left in TPM), Padme', etc.

[Morgan Evanar]

I agree with Charley.

[Marcus QDunn]

No, I think a bit differently. It's commitment to the Jedi as well as emotionally that is the key. In EPII, all Jedi are not to love as it weakens the Jedi in qquestion I think. It's really on the principle of you cant serve two Masters.

One the one hand, you have your vows as a Jedi


On the other, you have your heart.


Which one serves the Jedi better? How exactly can you be fully committed to the Jedi AND try to be committed to someone else? I dont think it would be easy and even Masters would be in trouble trying to strike a balance.

And I couldn't imagine Yoda going the sword fest anyway

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Phew...Obi and I are safe being Jedi Masters!! ;)

Oooh..but Yoda will weild the mighty saber <img src=http://www.thegjo.com/forum/smileys/biglaugh.gif ALT=":D">

[Marcus QDunn]

:: Puts on Yoda voice::

Come up to bachelor pad you must! Show you sabre I will! Judge me by my size you will!!

[Xazor]

<img src=http://www.thegjo.com/forum/smileys/hideing_behind_computer.gif ALT=":hiding">

[Figrin D an]

The relationship thing has been rehashed many times, and each time, I come to the same conclusion...

Even though we use the films as a basis for our entire community, we also incorporate other Star Wars influences (EU books, comics, video games) and many non-Star Wars aspects. That being said, and considering the number of "relationships" that already exist... I don't think it's something that requires a massive policy revamp. It might be prudent to 'discourage' relationships among the younger Jedi, until they have undergone significant training... but, ultimately... nothing that the Council decides to legislate would really prevent it anyway.

It's a personal choice on how a player wants to develop a given character... if that includes a love interest, that is individual perogative.

[Navaria Tarkin]

Yep, I am with Fig... I intend to have a discussion with my Padawans about the dangers, but I cannot say NO bad for you..

All, in how you want to play. I agree with that alot.

[Sage Hazzard]

I read on the official site that Ki-Adi Mundu has multiple wives and children. Or maybe I'm imagining things.

Lucas says that Anakin's problem is he can't let go. He clings to people like Padme and his mother, this is why love is dangerous for him.

Also, I think that if we factor EU in, we have to say it's totally acceptable. Because I don't think Yoda had time to cover everything about a Jedi before Luke rushed off. He's left with a different look about what a Jedi can and can't do, so he makes up his own rules IMO. Which is why he marries.

I say it's acceptable. Especially since no matter if we tried to stop it, it'd still continue in some way. People just love to roleplay love.

[Marcus QDunn]

Straight from Starwars.com



A contemplative Cerean, Ki-Adi-Mundi was the sole Jedi Knight serving on the Council during his tenure, sitting amongst an assemblage of Jedi Masters. As a four year old, Ki's raw talents in the Force were discovered by the mysterious Jedi Master known only as the Dark Woman. Ki's family, realizing that the galaxy needed protectors to save the innocent from such threats as Cerea's own unscrupulous raider Bin-Garda-Zon, allowed Ki to be taken to Coruscant to undergo Jedi training.

Upon entering the larger world of the Jedi, the Council assigned Ki-Ad-Mundi to Jedi Master Yoda. Decades later, Ki-Adi-Mundi returned to Cerea to help rid the world of the marauding raiders. Ki became watchman for the Cerean system, watching his peaceful world undergo the growing pains of joining an increasingly advanced and busy Republic.

Despite adherence to the Jedi philosophies, Ki was, in his hearts, a Cerean. He followed the Cerean custom of polygamous marriage, taking a bond wife, Shea, and four honor wives. He fathered seven daughters and became a strong community leader.

Around the time of the Battle of Naboo, Ki was embroiled in a political struggle as proponents of progress sought to change Cerea's serene ways. Ki's own daughter, Sylvn, joined the radicals, placing her life in danger as she became kidnapped by the criminal gun-runner Ephant Mon. Ki tracked Mon to Tatooine, discovered the duplicitous involvement of the Trade Federation, and rescued his daughter.

Following his exploits on Tatooine, Ki-Adi-Mundi was invited to permenantly join the Jedi Council, filling a space left vacant by the recently deceased Master Micah Giett.

Ki-Adi-Mundi returned to Tatooine, searching for the missing Jedi Master Sharad Hett. After adventuring in the deadly desert sands, Ki-Adi-Mundi found Hett and his son A'Sharad, who had been living with the native Tusken Raiders. Hett was killed by the Jedi hunter Aurra Sing, and Ki-Adi-Mundi took A'sharad as his Padawan, continuing the young Jedi's training.






--



Well........

Klo Poon was a Warrior

Ki-Adi-Mundi was married.

Both are indesputably Canon as they are in the movies. And both on the council

Hmmmmm.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Personally, and I see that I'm not alone, I'd agree with the fact that padawans, or even "young knights" shouldn't have serious romantic distractions. The point is not really wether you are serving two masters, but rather that you are old enough, and trained enough to control emotions in every realm. I always got the feeling that in training Jedi padawans, they are kept pretty much secluded from the rest of the real world, so as to focus their priorities. Now, I don't suggest that we do that here, but maybe those of us training padawans should mention something to them about the devotion of a Jedi, and the need for focus. Just a thought.

[Estelle Russard]

I think the whole love angle is what basically Fig and Nav covered- that its up to the rpers how they wanna develop their char.

Its like how there is a spectrum of Jedi here..some very peacelike like Jubei, others agressive like ol Marcus QD and then the others that strive for the balance in between like Sage.

It takes all different kinds of perspective on things such as love, and agression, to make it interesting to rp. And thus individual choice is best. I also think that some relationships open up opportunities for some interesting plots and twists etc to happen. We already see that in quite a few couples.

I think, though, some new ppl come and just think that getting a partner asap is just the thing to do. The see ppl hooked up and it just comes natural. I agree with Nav that she instructs her padawans that this isnt necessarily the "how to" to Jedi life.

Do all Masters/Teachers do this?

[Marcus QDunn]

What I think might be a good point is that the TPM Council was a eccletic mix of styles and types. What one problema few other Jedi Councils on the 'Net have is that they stick to the Yoda ideal in ESB. The GJO hasn't.

In a lot of ways, we have a big mix and no real overriding attribute. While we do have our Jubei's who are full on pacifists, it's balanced out by likes like me. And you have the staunch singles, and then there is the married. It's a real mix and that is what makes us good.

One of the things that we have here is freedom to Rp to a great extent as you see fit. Sure, some need correction, but it's excellnt to see the different ideas and beliefs flow. The more I see in the Prequels, the more you see the Jedi there have differing beliefs and ideals as well.

As for estelle's final point - I havent trained anyone from scratch for so long, I'll need to rememebr that!

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Very good points here. I have to agree Jedi are diverse in their beliefs ex. Qui Gon & Yoda...etc. Its a good thing to have that.

Estelle is right about that and Nav does train well. I too, try to instill the Jedi Beliefs, but I have yet come across a padawan ask me about love relations. Although...a way back I had one ask Leia out. In that type of situation, I did not feel that was a good thing. A master and a padawan. So, I explained my beliefs and let it be at that.

Anyhow... ::rambling mode off:

Thats all for me <img src=http://www.thegjo.com/forum/smileys/biglaugh.gif ALT=":D">

[Oriadin]

First line of the Jedi motto (if you like) is There is no emotion; there is peace.

Love is an emotion. In the trailer for EPII it says its forbidden for a Jedi to love. When your in love you do things for the other person, in a way you live for the other person. Ive heard a few people say that perhaps it would be advised if it were only Jedi Knights or above that can fall in love as they can control thier emotions. If your in love with someone and you see that person with someone else, naturally your going to feel emotions such as jelousy, hate, anger and you will have a fear of that person leaving you. If you didnt feel these things then it wouldnt be love. These are dangerous feelings. Its not for me to say if we should allow love or not but I do feel it should be discouraged as far as possible. Dont forget though that if two people are in love and are told they can not be together this could also lead to a lot of negative emotions.

Im probably blabbering so I'll shut up now!

[Eldrak Gruuhl]

IC: Emotions are a very volatile and unpredictable thing, which I am sure I do not possess the ability to control well enough to let myself express and control unabated in any fashion at this time.

Perhaps at some point in my future I will have developed enough understanding to be able to let myself feel such things as Love for a single special individual, but as of now, the Force is my guide and emotions would only cloud my bond with the learning and use of its ways.

OOC: I agree that IC relations are just a matter of personal preference in how a person wishes to RP their character. I myself have some characters that are in them and some that are not, so I can see all viewpoints from all angles. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/image/emoticons_classic/smile.gif ALT=":)">

[verse dawnstrider]

My opinion is simple. Jedi are People. If they wanted Defenders that are just mindless zealots, then they would all be clones. As far as love goes....

I love my cat. I am sure Jedi had pets.

I love my long time g/f. Ki-Ad-Mundi had a wife.

Then there is obsestion(s/p). Anakin was obsested with Padme and his mom. That is where I think the problem was.


Dark Sider in love: I can see some. I will use my other Chaos Alexander. He is a Sith. A knight at TSE. He is only a darksider because he feels that raw emotion (Hate, Rage, Anger, Fear, Lust) are the only true ways to be one with the Force. Sence he can't use them as a Jedi of "The Light" he does through the Dark. No one said you have to be evil to be a Dark Sider. Luke warned Corron Horn in 'I, Jedi' that his illision and aborb enery tricks were very close to the dark side.

[Oriadin]

Yeah but saying that, Jedi are taken away from thier families at a very young age and for a reason. Anakin loved his mum and thats why it was difficult for him to let go. He wasnt obsessed with her he just loved her. Anything you love you are attached to and that causes problems. Like I said before though telling two people they cant be in love will also cause problems. I dont think love should be disalowed but it should be discouraged as far as possible.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I don't think that true love can exist within the Dark Side. When Anbira was a sith, his feelings for LV were more of a weary desperation, because he knew in his own mind he was slipping and so was she. But he couldn't even save himself, much less her.

Vader is the epitome of what I think "feelings" should be expressed as, through the Dark Side. There is no love between him and LV. Its jealousy, greed, envy, lust, all coming together to draw him to her. But none of it is love. He sees in her what makes her great, and wants it for himself.

[AmazonBabe]

That's a good way of defining it. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[verse dawnstrider]

I can see your point well Oriadin. I just have a different view. I feel they were taken as children to be taught disipline. I can't stand to be told "No, don't do it that way." Why? because I am 17 and know all. In short, I suffer from being a teenager. Do I really know all? No. As a undisiplined teen, so I think I do? Yep. You may be 110% correct though. I am not really a Jedi, so I don't know.