70 000 Jedi in Australia

[Xenodoros Stormrider]

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/news/aug02/209.html

This was posted at SWRoleplay. Heh, I guess it's more appropriate here.


I'm sure Marcus claimed his religion was Jedi ;)

[Santhia]

:lol

awesome. I wonder if they made a church, if they would get tax exempt status :)

[Salemn Lysce]

LmAo :rollin

[Marcus Telcontar]

Like hell I did. I can't believe there are 70,000 idiots that would do such a thing here - I would add that each one of them are now liable for fines in the order of 1000 dollars for giving false info. Census information is not a joke, nor should the answering of questions on the said Census be treated as such.

[ReaperFett]

But the dictionary definition of a religion is "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". So surely, you can put what you want. Why is aethist (Not religious) considered fine, while Jedi, Manchester United or Bruce Campbell isn't?



Thats not about the actual doing, just the fining.

[Marcus Telcontar]

There is also intent. Knowingly Filling out a census form with incorrect information is finable. Jedi is not a religion. There is a great deal more to a recognised religion than just saying this is what you believe in - there is a pre-set rules and regulations and requirements for organisation, as well as length of time. You must alos register to be recognised as a valid religion.

And why do you have to do that? Religious organisations have certain benifits, rights and recognitions, plus obligations under Australian law. One thing that cancels out Jedi is that it is clearly a work of fiction, based on a movie. Yes, I am quite sure other religions could be accused of that, but in this case, Jedi is very clearly not a religion as defined in the Australian Constitution. It does not matter what the dictionary says, if it is not a religion under Aussie law, tough luck. Under the law, Jedi is clearly not a religion.

It was pre-mediated attempt to present inncorrect info on the Australian census and no matter of stupid argument or justification is going to change that.

[ReaperFett]

There is a great deal more to a recognised religion than just saying this is what you believe in - there is a pre-set rules and regulations and requirements for organisation, as well as length of time. You must alos register to be recognised as a valid religion.
So why does Aethist get allowed?

Its a hypocritical law. One person can say something and it is allowed, but another cant?


Anyway, info like that I wouldnt fill out. I dont see why it is needed, so would ignore.

[Loki Ahmrah]

In any case, ethical and moral issues aside, it's just sad.

[Xenodoros Stormrider]

Just think about it


The prank began early last year when "Star Wars" fans circulated an e-mail across Australia saying the government would be forced to recognize Jedi as an official religion if at least 10,000 people named it on the census.

Don't you think there would be a more 'official' way to set the religion instead of forcing everyone to do so?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Yes, there is official ways actually. Religions in Australia are not formulated just because you say so.

Honestly Fett, it;s not bloody Hypcracy - it's a decent law enacted to stop cults and idiots like this who want to rort the tax breaks an official religion gets. Athesism simply says you dont believe and it is a valid POV. Yes, there is a registered Atheism religion and yes, they get the same breaks as well. - before passing comment on Australian laws, how about learning why they are about.

Why do religions get tax breaks and other valuable concessions from the govt? Cause the religion has an obligation and an expectation they will be a) Not for profit, b) Monies they have are used solely for the religious organisationa nd it's members and c) Religious organisations carry the burden of 30% of schools, plus 70% of all charity work like feeding and clothing homeless. So if Jedi want to set themselves up properly and abide by the laws of Australia, hey, who's stopping them?

What this was instead was a stunt and an illegal one, one that makes them look like morons.

[ReaperFett]

it's a decent law enacted to stop cults and idiots like this who want to rort the tax breaks an official religion gets
"Idiots like this" werent doing it for the tax breaks.



See, here is why the rule doesnt work IMO. As I said above, a religion is basically a set of beliefs, or a cause. Now, lets say that I follow Buscemism (Yes, I made that up:)), which is a set of beliefs that I personally believe in. Hence, my religion is Buscemism. Im not looking for a tax break by putting this down. I am telling the truth. And for telling the truth, I get a hefty fine, and have people seeing me as a "moron" just because I dont pick one of the larger religions. And this is fair?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Then say "Not Specified" or "None of the above". By specifically listing Jedi, you break the law. Jedi is NOT a religion and I might add, neither is Busemism under Australian law. Your definition does not matter if the law says otherwise. And hence, neither does your supposition.

The law defines what a religion is and there are certain other points it must pass, other than a very loose set of beliefs. I believe that scratching my a@@ is good - by your definition, that qualifies as a religion. Well, it certainly does not under law. The law is in place to stop cults and stupid fairy worshippers. Jedi is akin to bum-scratching and fairy worshipping in the eyes of the law.

Why?

Becuase Jedi is clearly from a fictional work and clearly stated by the inventor that is is a work of fiction. Now it's debateable if Islam or Wiccan or Christianity are based on fiction as well, but the point is, Jedi is clearly based on that and no attempt to say otherwise is made. Your also not allowed a cult of personality and a ereligion MUST hold certain rules and regulations and I keep pointing out, but you keep ignoring.

[ReaperFett]

How can I be ignoring what I am debating about? You see, these regulations make the law, which Im saying is unfair. I dont deem that as ignoring.

[imported_Lance Stormrider]

Lol, Jedi is a religion. It had been considered as such even by the newspapers. Yeah I read a lot of the news and crap and Jedi IS considered as a darn religion -_- Even if IRL it sounds realy GAY

[Xenodoros Stormrider]

It may be considered as people's beliefs. But it is not an 'official' religion that can be stated on a census.

[Kelt Simoson]

Bloody aussies.....:grumble



MARCUS LOVES DRINKING FOSTERS!!!!!

[Oriadin]

Ooo, that'll go down well.

[Helenias Evenstar]

Oh dear, someone is going to be in a lot of trouble soon.....

And I would agree. Stating Jedi on a census is a ridiculous and I might add illegal activity. Honestly, some people.....

[Loki Ahmrah]

Like Marcus said, Jedi isn't a recognized religion within Australian law. Now if these idiots took themselves seriously which they don't seem to be doing because they are merely immitating a fictional faith then they would go to some sort of registry office and campaign for it. By encouraging 70,000 people into doing this they are merely being arrogant and giving the govrnment the finger and causing a -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-load of trouble. I hope the government fines the ass of these sheep - it would be a nice $70,000,000 in the pocket.

[ReaperFett]

I dont see it as arrogant, just having fun :)


So Loki, IF they were doing this seriously, would you say it would be right for them to put it down?

[Loki Ahmrah]

No, because it isn't the correct way of making a new, recognized religion. They have to go through an offical avenue of legalising the "Jedi" religion. What they have done is childish and has done nothing more than make it impossible to have a reasonably reliable census. I think it's right to fine them $1000 each, the problems they've caused for their government.

[Salem Ave]

This happened in the UK too I think, people were trying to get it made an official religion

:lol weird.

[ReaperFett]

Okay, let me try again, I worded it wrong :)


Forget this entire Jedi idea. Im saying if someone REALLY believes in THEIR religion, but their religion isn't what you would call one of the standard ones, do you think they should put it down? If you want a reliable census, you must allow people to answer truthfully. Maybe they plan on becoming official.

So basically, forget the Jedi part, Im just talking about people seriously putting their beliefs :)






This happened in the UK too I think, people were trying to get it made an official religion
More Jedi than atheists :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Same still applies. You hit the nail right on the head: "Maybe they plan on becoming official." But it isn't YET official and that makes all the difference. So until it is a recognized religion the people should just put it under "Not specified" until it becomes legalised.

[ReaperFett]

But if you want a reliable census, how would that work?

[Salem Ave]

So until it is a recognized religion the people should just put it under "Not specified" until it becomes legalised.

Isn't the only way it can become official if enough people put it down as there religion? o_O

[Loki Ahmrah]

I was going to elaborate on that point in my previous post. I knew this was the question you were going to ask. :)

Well, a census is only concerned with legally recognised religions and as such doesn't require any further information until these "Not stated" religions are made legal. Because regardless, those "Jedi" religion people will now be sorted back into the "Other/Not Stated" bracket causing the census-takers a great deal of extra work which is really unfair on them.

[Oriadin]

If I remember correctly the email being sent round said that if 'x' amount of people put down Jedi then it would become a recognised religion. Perhaps they wanted this put down as a proper religion but they werent aware that this wasnt the way to do it. Lets face it, how many people here really know where to begin starting up a new religion?

Im nether condeming them or supporting them incidently. Just thought id mention that point.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Then when it comes to the law, one should make enquiries about how to go about starting a new religion. It wouldn't be hard to find out if you were serious about it. I think they just thought: "Oh this will be a laugh!" And now have themselves in too deep and if they were serious about it they should be fined anyway for being ignorant of what needs to be done to avoid prosecution.

[ReaperFett]

Because regardless, those "Jedi" religion people will now be sorted back into the "Other/Not Stated" bracket causing the census-takers a great deal of extra work which is really unfair on them.
They said that over here, they didn't :)

[Oriadin]

I dont think you can fine people for being ignorant. Although I do agree that most people probably decided to put down Jedi for a laugh, which I must say is wrong. If your going to fill in the form for a laugh then there is no point.

[Loki Ahmrah]

I think the government should fine em for being ignorant of the law and what it requires of them. Regardless of whether or not they were knowledgeable that they would be fined for their actions, they caused a load of trouble for the people who have to sort out those statistics. That still stands and as such I think a good fining would be a good deterrant from idiots trying to pull a stunt like this again unless they go about it in a serious manner.

[Oriadin]

Yeah but if they thought they WERE going about it in a serious matter, I still think its pretty harsh.

[ReaperFett]

Indeed


they caused a load of trouble for the people who have to sort out those statistics
Why? None of the above gets put awya, Jedi gets put away. That was hard :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

I still think they should be fined if they thought they were going about it in a serious way - although where they would get the idea from that doing the opposite of what a census sheet instructs is the right way to go about things I'll never fathom - but naturally the fine should be substantially less.

But then the people who composed the email should be fined heavily for inticing thousands to effectively go against the law, knowledgeable of it being illegal or not. They should be willing to take it on the chin if they think they're big enough to innitiate such a big thing.

[ReaperFett]

But then the people who composed the email should be fined heavily for inticing thousands to effectively go against the law, knowledgeable of it being illegal or not. They should be willing to take it on the chin if they think they're big enough to innitiate such a big thing.
That is more reasonable

[Oriadin]

Yeah, I agree with that too.

(Oriadin enjoys putting the world to rights!)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

And to think I didn't read this thread. :p

[ReaperFett]

you have now :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*sigh* yes.

[ReaperFett]

WHy sigh? :)

[Arya Ravenwing]

I dunno. :) Its all resolved now, I missed out on the good arguements. :p

[ReaperFett]

Could start another if you wanted :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

really!?!? :D

[Oriadin]

Bet you couldnt - fighting talk.

[Kelt Simoson]

Puts boxing gloves on LD* "Okay gurrrrrl you go out there and smack him sqaure in the eyes?..then a right, right and then a quick left hook and hes out for the count!"

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:D

Nah I hate arguments. Starting them, that is. :) I'll continue an arguement if need be. :D

[Loki Ahmrah]

No you wouldn't! >D

[ReaperFett]

Well there's one thing Loki, YOU wouldnt!





:)

[Oriadin]

Ooo, now were getting really nasty! :lol

[Loki Ahmrah]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Well there's one thing Loki, YOU wouldnt!

:)

I know.

(Expecting me to argue, you were, hmmm, yes! :p)

[ReaperFett]

You realise you can't argue :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Yep. :p

[ReaperFett]

I win then :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Good for you. :mneh

[ReaperFett]

Indeed it is :)

[Oriadin]

Told ya you couldnt pick a fight! :p

[ReaperFett]

lol :)

[Seerrasseei Tsseerra]

:lol

[Loki Ahmrah]

(Does dance of joy)

:D

[ReaperFett]

You cant dance either! :)

[Seerrasseei Tsseerra]

*laughs thinking of what Ani would look like doing a dance of joy*

[Loki Ahmrah]

What exactly is the dance of joy? Is it a specific dance?

[The Messenger]

Chickin dance with a added twist...

[Loki Ahmrah]

:x

[ReaperFett]

Loki, your vision went again!



What were you doing? :)

[Loki Ahmrah]

Rank!

[ReaperFett]

lol:)

[Bette Davis]

o_O You know, doing some things will make you go blind.

Like sticking hot pokers in your eyes.

Stuff like that.

[Oriadin]

I wouldnt advise that.

[ReaperFett]

From experience? :)

[Oriadin]

No comment! :lol

[ReaperFett]

lol! :)

[Chance]

heh heh

[Oriadin]

ho ho

[ReaperFett]

hee hee :)

[Oriadin]

ha ha!

[Loki Ahmrah]

I love to laugh. HA HA HA HA! Loud and long and clear...

[Oriadin]

I love to laugh, Ho Ho Ho Ho, It’s getting worse every year...

[Loki Ahmrah]

The more I laugh, Hee hee hee, the more I fill with glee...

[Oriadin]

And the more with glee, He He He He, The more I’m a merrier me!

[Loki Ahmrah]

Some people laugh through their noses, sounding something like this: Ahm-ahehm-huhmahm!

[Seerrasseei Tsseerra]

:lol