Strike Date Set

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not sure if anybody heard but the players set a strike date for Aug 30, hopefully something will happen before then or else I think the game will be destroyed.

[Admiral Lebron]

Personally I say fire all of the ones going on strike and bring up minor league teams.

[Figrin D'an]

Neither side in the negotiations has the stomach to be remembered as the cause of a work stoppage. That's the main difference between this season, and seasons like 1994, 1981, etc... there are too many fans that would not be willing to forgive for yet another destroyed baseball season. The strike in '94 ruined what could have been a great season... Gwynn had a real shot at batting .400, Griffey and Matt Williams were both on pace to break Maris' home run mark, the Montreal Expos were on pace to win the most games in ML history... Imagine if a strike happens... no back-to-back 20 win seasons for teammates (Schilling and Johnson), Sosa's 500th career home run put of until next season, a great AL West title race thrown away, no shot for John Smoltz to get the single season saves mark, no shot for Ichiro to have 200+ hits in his first two ML seasons, and no shot for one of this years magical teams (Twins or Angels) to make a playoff run... a great season would flushed down the toliet.

Neither the owners or the players want that kind of blame....

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with you I don't think it will happen, but there is still a chance, the whole problem right now is the Luxury Tax, hopefully they will comprimise over this issue.

[Admiral Lebron]

Thats the problem. They compromise. All the time. Its too much. You need players who want to play for the game, not for money. Ugh. Pisses me off.

[CMJ]

They better not strike. I swear I might never watch another game if they do.

[Jedieb]

On the luxury tax the players are at $102M and the owners are at $130M. What I think is positive about that is that those are numbers that can be worked with. The players have at least accepted the idea of luxury tax. I think eventually they'll meet somewhere in the middle. The setting of the date today certainly killed the optimism Monday's postponement generated. I don't even want to see A SINGLE GAME lost here. But eight previous strike dates have been set, and we've had eight strikes. This time seems to be different though. I think there's a good chance we'll see a deal in place by the end of the month.

[JMK]

I still feel that baseball needs a major restructuring, and whatever deal they come up with now will only be a short term solution to problems that will never go away - unless a major shakedown happens.

[Doc Milo]

IMO, the owners own the leverage right now -- they are winning the PR war. More fans will agree that something has to be done about the system that baseball operates under. Even Yankees fans like myself can readily admit that there is something wrong when one team spends 130 million in payroll and the next closest team is something like almost 30 million less (that's the budget of some small market teams!) or that one team pays 100 million in payroll more than the lower tier teams.

What I don't understand is that the Owners put a minimum payroll on the table of $45 million. And the players rejected it on principle. They didn't want to negotiate a number for a minimum, they rejected the notion of a minimum.

The minimum would guarantee that owners had to spend the money they get in revenue sharing on player payroll, and not just pocket it as profit.

From what I hear, the players want a 130 M threshold and a 15% luxury tax. That is pretty much like keeping the status quo. The threshold only includes one team (the Yankees) and they are not going to be hesitant to pay 15% of whatever they spend over 130M, especially since their payroll, if it's over that threshold at all, isn't that far over it.

The owners want the threshold to be 102M and the tax rate to be 50%. This threshold includes like 7 or 8 teams. The tax rate is very high, IMO, and would not only make teams hesitant, but probably have the effect of making teams cut payroll in order to stay below the threshold.

I say they should come to a compromise of something like a threshold of 115M and a tax of 33%. That would be enough for some of the teams that are close to the threshold to be hesitant about going over it, but not incentive enough to actually cut payroll to fall under the threshold. And it will include enough teams to make the revenue sharing dollars mean something to the clubs recieving the funds.

But they should have a minimum salary regardless. Or have some safeguard that forces any team recieving the revenue sharing to put the money into player payroll.

If they go out, though, I want the owners to hang tough, even if it means they stay away for two years! If the owners cave now, when they have the PR leverage, they will never get a handle on any of it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually leverage might be more on the players side, I was watching CNN last night and they said if the world Series was lost, the owners would have to pay Fox 680 million dollars because of clausing in the contract, that is a lot of money and could easily bankrupt the league so they may have no choice but to back down, unless they are willing to destroy MLB and go bankrupt.

[JMK]

This is the most pathetic situation ever. It's lose-lose, regardless of what they say. If they come to an agreement, I guarantee we'll be having this same thread 5 years from now about another work stoppage. On the other hand, if they strike, even for one day, you can kiss 1000's of fans away for good.

[Doc Milo]

I'm not sure about that JMK. The players and the owners probably both see the fans in the light of: "They'll come back. They always do."

And they are right. The fans will come back. Sure, there will be the few that say, "That's it! Never again!" And then stick to their guns. But most fans, even if they are voicing that opinion now, will come back eventually. Because they love the game.

I know I will be back -- I won't even voice that opinion no matter how much I want to. I will be back, because I love the game. I don't go to many games now, I enjoy the games on TV. I play fantasy baseball. And that is what I will be doing even after a work stoppage and they come back. Because I love the game. I hate the business, but I love the game. I won't be a hypocrite and say I'll never come back because I just know, deep down, that it's not true... (No matter how much I wish I had the strength to just say, "the hell with it!" and never care about the game again...)

[JMK]

I wouldn't say it either, because I love the game too much too. But I really get the sense that alot of fans are fed up with the business side of the game. I mean, attendance is already down across the league, and the strike hasn't even hit yet. Why the drop? There's so much to cheer for this season, as D'an outlined in his post earlier. If the players strike, it really shows that they don't care at all about the game, nor the fans. Granted, most fans will probably come back eventually, but they'll always wonder how long it will be until the next stoppage hits.

[Jedieb]

I'm always puzzled by the look of disdain and horror certain MLB player reps have whenever the term "salary cap" is mentioned. Do these greedy freaks not pay attention to the NFL? A salary cap wouldn't keep player salaries from rising. What it would do is keep the top salaries from rising 100% every 5 years or so. Oh, the horror!!!! I'm lucky if I get a 2% raise every year, but players fear their not going to be able to average $5M in 5 years! Hell, I lost ground to inflation just about every year I've taught. People all over the country are in the same boat. But again, player reps act like the owners are trying to steal money from them. It makes me sick. Like Doc said, set the tax at around $115M, put a minimum in, and then shut the hell up and play ball. I know that I can say this for certain;
I will NEVER pay to see a baseball game in a MLB stadium again. They're not getting my money. I'll watch it for free on FOX and that's it. The 10 year old Yankee cap I have now will be the last one I ever buy. I'll have Little League games to enjoy, screw a trip to the ballpark. There's a minor league team 10 minutes away I can go see when I get an itch.

These 8 work stoppages in the last 30 years HAVE had an effect on fans. They helped MLB fall behind the NFL and the NBA as the dominant sports leagues in the U.S. The strikes haven't been the only reason, but they've contributed a great deal.

Good God, HOW THE HELL CAN YOU NOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO SHARE 3.5 BILLION DOLLARS IN REVENUE!!!!!!:shootin

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not sure if I will pay to see any games either, at the most I pay for one game a year and I might not do that again for a while, I might follow it on the Internet of read it in the paper but that is about it for me.

[JMK]

For several reasons, I probably won't be going to an MLB game. I would if I thought that a rise in attendance would save the Expos, but I'm not going to kid myself.

Besides, I've got my women't softball team to manage (we're in the finals, second time in my two years of coaching!!!), and I play in another league, which is way more entertaining than those money-hungry pantywaists. Geez, as an outfielder especially, how can you worry about your zillions of dollars when half the time, or more, you look like you could use a lawn chair in the pasture? Sure they are in the entertainment business, and should get their share of the pie, but like you said Jedieb, how can they not figure out how to share that much money?

Part of me wishes that MLB would go bellyup just so we could watch minor league ball, full of kids who play their hearts out, and haven't lost touch with reality yet.

[JMK]

8 days left and still not much hope.
It baffles me more and more each day that these guys that have it ALL in life, still can't figure out how to share billions of dollars.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they did say they were making some progress and I think they can get it done, hopefull they will strike a deal early next week.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Less than 48 hours to go here is how they stand
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0827/1423631.html

Things don't look good really but a deal could still get done, I guess we will have to wait until tomorrow to see how close this is going to be.

[Jedieb]

If the players were smart they'd postpone the strike and say something along the lines of;
"As a gesture of good faith and because we're making progress, we're extending the deadline X days."
But I doubt ANYONE over there is smart enough to pull that off.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Jenkins told them to that, but I don't see them doing it either, if something doesn't get done by tomorrow then I think the players will walk out Friday and the game will be greatly damaged.

[JMK]

We're about 33 hours away from the strike. I don't think any settlement will arise, and we'll get screwed again.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Jason Stark on ESPN thinks a deal will happen also when will they strike 12AM or in the morning? I haven't heard what the deal is there. Lately I haven't carred the way my team has been playing.

[JMK]

I don't know how anyone can see a deal being done in less than 24 hours with this circus of greed. Especially now that the inept Butt Selig has joined the talks (although I don't know in what capacity), it's going to be even harder to agree to terms on
something.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Some of the players said that a deal could be done pretty quick, so I don't know, they have agreed on just about everything except the Luxury Tax and Revenue Sharing, but they are very close on Revenue Sharing, its the Luxury Tax that needs the work, I guess we will know soon, if nothing happens soon though I expect a strike.

[Jedieb]

My Dad's birthday is tomorrow. If they strike on his b-day.... :shootin

[JMK]

I've been watching the Blue Jays vs Yankees tonight, and during the pre-game show, they were saying that it was looking pretty bleak. Now I just got an update and heard that it's looking pretty good that they're going to get a deal done. Apparently the players have come down with their demands on the salary tax and all that stuff. I hope they come down more.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Right now I have no clue what is going to happen, Stark who was very optomistic this morning is saying that the positions had hardened in the last 12 hours and he is not sure what will happen, I think this thing will go into late tonight, and we might not find out till morning.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I didn't see that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is going back and forth like this, as I said I think this will drag on until the wee hours until something is done.

[JMK]

They'll strike the deal at noon tomorrow, if at all. If they do strike though, I hope its a long one and that the fans really punish them all by not coming back as fast as they think they would.

Did that make sense?:x

[Jedi Master Carr]

If there is a long strike I think there will be teams not coming back, I have heard rumors that the Devil Rays, Diamonbacks, Brewers, Pirates, Marlins, and the Tigers all might not becoming back if the strike goes into next year and heck there could be more teams from what I heard, Campbell was talking about it on a chat on ESPN, the Doomsday Scenerio. Man the more I think about it I wish the Owners would have used replacements in 95, so they could have crippled the union much like the NFL owners did in 87 forcing them to accept a salary cap.

[JMK]

The part that baffles me almost as much as the inability to share such an enormous amount of money is the fact that salary caps make leagues more competitive, and these ball players don't get it. They really don't seem to care much for the game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It hasn't hurt salaries too much in Football, I think the average Salary is a lot lower but the miniuimum is higher I believe, I think you just have fewer big salaries, to me Salary cap helps the league because I can't see how it can survive with these huge salaries some teams might just end up going out of buisness.

[JMK]

If it stays like it is, and the strike does put all those teams out, that's it for ball. If getting rid of the poor teams is what they want, then baseball will cannibalize itself until only the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and Mets are left. Possibly the Cubs and Cards too, but not much else.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heck you could even see some the players start a counter league which wouldn't surprise me, not sure if it would work I think you will see less fans at those games than at the Expos games.

[JMK]

There's more people at my ladies softball games than at an Expos game!

The Expos are drawing an average of 13,000 a game now, which surprisingly, is not last in the majors.

Another update: I'm listening to it as I type, and it sounds like they're going to go all night long because they're so close to a deal now.

I just hope its a good one that will really help the game be more than 10 team league, because essentially, that's what it is once opening day comes. Most teams are eliminated before the they end their first road trip.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Just curious are these updates from ESPN? Just curious because the web page hasn't had an update in a while. I still think it could go either way.

[JMK]

I'm getting them from CTV Sportsnet, one of Canada's 2 national sport channels. They've got 2 guys standing across the street from the building where the negotiations are happening and they give periodic updates when they hear something.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Oh Okay, I wondered especially after I posted it I turned on ESPN and they had a college Football game on, (its still on I wanted to watch Sportscenter to see the latest) have you heard anything new?

[JMK]

I did hear from one guy who left the building that things were going well, but he didn't want to mislead people because they were still far apart, but progressing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is what Jayson Stark just said (he was on ESPN 2 during halftime of some college game) he said they would probably be there all night, have no clue though how they can get a deal done like that but, I guess they could negoatiate all morning and get it done by tomorrow morning.

[JMK]

Yeah, well they'll probably stay up all night and just come up with this lame plan to save the game for another couple years...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Probably or the deal will collapse and the game will be destroyed either option doesn't sound very good.

[JMK]

Nope, that's why I'm hoping for a (part of me anyway) huge strike that forces them all the re-structure everything.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*watches the Sandlot* Why not destroy what baseball is now, and go back to the GAME! *sigh* I just watched The Rookie, and I hope baseball survives. I'm such a sap. :D

[CMJ]

It's a good thing I've been on set during most of this mess or I'd be even more pissed than I already am. :p