The Sith Empire...

[TheHolo.Net]

...has made it known to me that their group will no longer be Role Playing here at SWFans as a group. According to what I was told individual members will be free to RP in both their new location and at these forums but the Universes will be considered separate.

As of tonight they have quit using their ezboard and made all links contained on that site point to their new vBulletin, leaving none to this board on it. As such I have now removed the link to their ezboard from our portal forum, seeing that their ezboard is defunct and the description for that ezboard link no longer accurate. Should they desire to have a new link on our Portal to their new forums, they are welcome to go through the submission process for adding a new link so that they may set the link's description appropriately as they see fit.

I am not certain how many of the group mods whom are aware of some of the recent events with TSE, but I will give a brief run down so that all here are aware of some of the things that have been happening in the last few days, which seem to have stemmed from Daegal being banned from these forums for invading the privacy of other roleplayers here.

Two nights ago an email was sent to a group of people, a few of which are group mods and or forum wide mods and a few others as well. Said email contained yet another full topic drawn from a private forum. this topic included in each post it contained the IP numbers of the posters whom had participated in the thread indicating the thread was pulled and spread around via an administrative account.

Marcus was one of the recipients of this email which invaded the privacy of roleplayers yet again to a degree even worse than the one in which Daegal was recently banned for as it was not just the contents of a few posts, but the contents of an entire thread. With Marcus’ help we were able to check the email’s server assigned extended headers and found much to our surprise at that moment, that it was Daegal’s IP down to each and every single digit. Needless to say, at first we had no idea who might have done it, but after the fact of finding the identity we were not surprised.

I have recently learned that Daegal possessed motive to attempt to shame all of the participants in the sent thread, which made it fit all the more.

A fact that makes this relate to the new SWRoleplaying board is this; The vBulletin board they are using for this new universe of theirs that they are establishing is a board he owns financially, as he is the one who bought the vB software and the hosting package for the site.

Even though TSE’s leaders and Daegal were approached about this instance, given the facts, he and they continue to deny that Daegal was responsible, but none have yet to come up with anything more than a claim of innocence, while we possess exact IP matching evidence from the email sent. He was caught red handed and much like the way he denied his guilt to Yog in the previous case of being guilty of infiltration/invading other roleplayers privacy, he is doing the same in this case while the circumstances and actions are almost identical.

And here very recently I have learned that even though he is claiming innocent and the TSE leaders are backing him 100%, he has said and by the looks of the new vB board they are using, made it appear, that he has relinquished administrative control of the vB board. Which seems very noble on the surface, but not nearly as noble as honesty, which I believe we have yet to see from him and in his attempt to make it look as if he has relinquished control of this new board I feel he is probably also being dishonest.

I know for certain that vB when downloaded as a complete software package includes a php source file that will allow a person with FTP access to the host site to regain admin access at any time.

Yes, much of the last few things I have to say about not believing Daegal are indeed based on opinion of my own, while the other things I said are based on fact. But I believe it to be well established that Daegal and his word cannot be trusted by many of his actions when dealing with the staff and in some rumors of things I have heard from things he has done to about a half dozen other people that back up this opinion of mine.

I am terribly sorry to waste everyone’s time with this really long and possibly confusing post, but I feel that our staff being informed of what is occurring is and always will be beneficial for our community. No one really need take any action, and all are encouraged to come to their own conclusions, but even though such things are not fun to discuss, communication is vital to a strong community and we as the leaders of this community must set the example and communicate well with each other.

Depending on your take on this situation and what you may or may not believe, I myself would recommend that if any of you do register at their new vB forums (which I have already been banned from without even making a single post or given any explanation as to why from those who banned me) that you choose an account password that is completely unique and different from any other password you may have.

IMO, it is well established that Daegal enjoys stepping on the privacy of others and his setting up a script in the log in process for the vBulletin software to capture a password when a user is logging in is not completely impossible. Emailing it to the address of ones choice after capture. I am not saying such a script is in place, but I do feel strongly that it may be a possibility. And if you believe as I do please do warn you friends that may register there to do the same (create a complety unique Password). Having your privacy invaded does not feel good in the least bit and I would not anyone to be subjected to it.

Thanks for all your time and any who wish are free to ask questions which I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability.

[TheHolo.Net]

And as a quick aside which I failed to mention in my small book above. I am in no way discouraging people from RPing at this new board nor will I hold any grudge towards any that choose to do so. This Universe or both of them matters not to me, but facts need to be known.

shuts the hell up....finally

[Xazor Elessar]

:eek

So TSE is now not a part of the SWFans universe...anything that happens there IC is nothing to this place? That really sux, I was building a good Sith character there. :( So now they have moved to VBoard...and to get in there again, you have to register again.

What I don't understand, is why a whole community would move off of a huge web circle...because of one guy? Is that what you're saying? They all moved because Daegal is paying for the board? And on top of it all, they are backing his lies? :verymad This, IMHO, is...INSANE! I really respected TSE...but now, I am going to quite. I have a Sith at TSO, and personally now that all of this has gone down...I'd rather RP there because I am loyal to SWFans....this is a sad event.... :(

[TheHolo.Net]

Their (TSE’s leadership) past with myself, Nup, and a few others goes back a long ways with much animosity. So I would say this is not because of a single person but also because of that animosity. Yet in every single instance they ever had with me or any other staff member they were never able to produce anything more than their opinions, Not a single fact was ever given that backed their claims of wrongdoing. When we asked for evidence or facts, we were always told to wait or that they didn’t have it anymore, or some excuse. And in those cases we were asked to wait, we did, yet no facts or evidence were ever presented. Just a lot of accusations and suppositions.

Nup and myself have been accused of so many preposterous things in the last year by them with no shred of evidence or proof its staggering, yet when we catch one of their members and have proof both times, they back him all the way. :: shrug ::

I really don’t completely understand it, nor do I want to color them as bad people. I am more confused by them than anything or anyone else.

[Xazor Elessar]

::sigh::

I went to check out the board and they have really gotten themselves into some other RPing circle or something. I don't understand how they can ban you without plausable cause...which there is none. I guess they are just going to loose a lot of good RPers in the process....

[Taylor Millard]

It might be more leadership than the group as a whole. Although somehow I get the feeling that it's 'trickle-down' dislike there.

Dammit, I STILL have to do that one RP there. :lol

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Xazor Leo Dawnstrider
::sigh::

I went to check out the board and they have really gotten themselves into some other RPing circle or something. I don't understand how they can ban you without plausable cause...which there is none. I guess they are just going to loose a lot of good RPers in the process.... Yes, if you look at both Vega's and my profiles there you can see that we were both banned yet neither of us has a single post on the board.

http://swroleplay.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=3

http://swroleplay.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=14

That makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

And Taylor, I think you are correct.

[Xazor Elessar]

They must have banned you in advance. :(

That is very wrong and I guess by doing that, they're just making a "name" for themselves...and to me, it isn't a good one. Granted, I am a member of TSE...but if they're going to be this way, it would be an embarrassment to me if I continued to be a member. I really like my Master there, Lord Darkstar...great RPer he is and we have actually become friends...I hate to leave...but I don't want that kind of reputation for one of my characters. I really don't see why Vega was banned...the other day I saw he posted at TSE on EZboard and they closed his thread for no apparent reason. :( Bet they'd ban me if I turned or left or something. :( Why did they get rid of Blade Ice? I completely missed that whole deal until he was gone.....man, what has this galaxy come to? :huh

[TheHolo.Net]

They told BladeIce as well as Sieken, who were both removed from TSE membership by the leaders, that they were given their walking papers because TSE was going in a new direction and they wanted a smaller group. At least that is the story I got from Sieken and BladeIce. You would get more accurate information contacting those individuals directly.

[Xazor Elessar]

Because they wanted a smaller group? So they got rid of what, Sith Knights and Warriors? Why not knock off a few Apprentices if they really wanted a smaller group? I registered so when I decide what I am going to do, I'll see if they ban me...I registered both my Xazor name and Danya, my Sith Apprentice. It's funny, because now that Vega isn't there anymore...she really has no purpose there either...except to remain with Darkstar. Wow, I know someone who is going to be mad when he comes back from bootcamp and gets on that board.....::looks out for Chaos:: :lol I still can't belive this....it's just really disappointing, especially since I have a good character there!

[Marcus Telcontar]

So we are rid of the worst ones for good? That's a truly plesant day then. They made life here hell when I was admin. I cant say I am glad to see the backs of the gang of three, cause I am.

I'll back Mr Dot.net's statements the whole way. The email was truly off and the IP (which I might add was not forged, I would know the difference) went straight back to his machine which was logged on and active. I have no doubt Daegal was the source of the email and I find that he has not been kicked out of TSE interesting as the defence of him. Lynch had a conversation with me when the facts were laid out and he insisted I had to be wrong. In this case, I'm not.

There is absolutly no chance Daegal is innocent.

When you run a site or a network, you HAVE to trust the administrator. I believe Shawn and Chris have proven that they can be trusted and TSE's admins, namely Lynch, Dara and Daegal can not. Especially Daegal and he has now been caught red handed twice.

Charming.

I believe there are a few really good people in TSE who are either going to leave or be sucked in by a lie. I hope they dont get hurt or get turned on. This is just so the opposite of what I want GJO to be known for - an open and friendly place where everyone is welcome and has a place.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Xaz - if I were you, I would make sure your password at this new board and this one are completely different

[TheHolo.Net]

I will now state an opinion based on my knowledge of the TSE councilors, considering I was one myself for for around a year and know them failry well.

This opinion should not be shared with the two individuals who were kicked out of TSE because its just that, an opinion, but I feel I should share it here.

I think the leaders probably considered BladeIce and Sieken subpar RPers or "undesirable" and thus they kicked them out so as to make their group look better not having them around.

You probably recall a discussion we had once in Temple Avalon where I stated my opinions of GJO's open door policy and my firm stance that one's skill level should not disallow them from participation. and I still feel that way about anyone. No one should be treated as inferior based on the opinion of another, everyone deserves a fair chance in my book. I really truely feel that the TSE leaders decided that Blade and Siek weren't any good and gave them the boot.

But like I said, this is not a fact and is only my opinion.

[Xazor Elessar]

D'OH!!! I forgot to change my frickin' password!!!! Fudge fudge fudge.....

AUGH!!!! Now I'm screwed...okay, I am completely not going there anymore. I'll just tell DS it was nice RPing with him and we'll talk later unless he'll train me elsewhere. ::sigh:: Man, things just keep getting "better", huh....

That's wacko that he would send all of that to you Marcus, especially since you're like, a computer guy anyway...and he knew you'd give it to Mr. .Net and Shawn.... Man life is screwed up with that. People are just stupid these days, I suppose. And as for Siek and Blade being poor RPers, I don't think that they were. I have seen a lot worse from there...and those people were not removed....

[TheHolo.Net]

Kissing the right backside will take you a long ways in TSE too, from my experiance there. I saw it way too often.

[Marcus Telcontar]

He thought a hotmail account would somehow make him untraceable. He was wrong.

[Xazor Elessar]

:lol I suppose...Dara never liked me much....actually, now that I come to think about it...no one did. :lol I know what everyone there hates Xaz, IC....so that made them develope opinions about me anyway....

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I dislike their attitudes very very much, and am glad to see they are gone.

I'm sad that the people of TSE have nothing better to do in their lives than play with petty politics on a RPing board with absolutely no reflection in reality. What planets *are* they from? Its like Total Recall, they think its real, but one day they'll wake up, and find out what sad, sad excuses for people they are.

I'm just glad they haven't messed with me. No, wait, i wish they would! Jesus loves them..but I sure can't find any redeeming qualities.

*le sigh*

[Darth Viscera]

Well, I'm not really fond of Sieken either, I can see how TSE would have wanted to get rid of him. He was constantly harassing me (and from what I've heard from Charley, him too) on AIM, and he refused to use the spell checker. That's really all I have against him, and I don't even know BladeIce.

In a way, I am glad that TSE is gone, in the same way that I found it prudent to send all those 3,000 ships from TGE away and start off again with warlordism. IMO, it's a chance to start over.

I hope that the new Sith group that takes TSE's place will be a good place, and I hope that I can be a part of it.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Siek is a Padawan of mine under a different id and I have to say he has improved a lot. I always believe anyone can improve if given a chance and I usually can be quite willing to do so. There have been only a few totally hopeless cases, but mercifully few. Basically, if Sieken is correct in what he said was the reason, this was simply TSE's way of getting rid of players who did not "fit" with ones like Lynch and Dara.

Fine. If TSE dont want em, GJO will take em and welcome them as they always do with anyone.

[ReaperFett]

Can I just point out that making comments about TSE as a whole is wrong.

[Darth Viscera]

My comments were directed at the establishment of TSE rather than the members.

[Morgan Evanar]

Fett, for once, please shut up. I can't comprehend your problem, but try and do a deep introspective and attempt to start making some sense.

I've thought it would be kind of nice during my more bitter, angry moods to get rid of a few people at GJO, but I always ended up deciding it was a bad idea, simply because hey, they want to have fun too. Its not my right to say "hey, even though you've been doing this for about a year (or six months in some cases, my dislike usually is earned), well, we've decided you aren't welcome anymore. Piss off."

I would have found that really dishartenting, if had that done to me.

What I find even more dishartening is the fact that TSE continues to support Daegel without even acknowledging this information as slightly valid.

It just furthers my theory that they are insane. Good riddance of bad rubbish.

[Xazor Elessar]

So, I am traceable even with a hotmail or yahoo account??? Okay, question....if they get my password and all my info about me, etc etc....what is the worst that can happen to me? Just curious, I guess I missed that part and I don't understand.

I completely agree with Morg on this....it is wrong to make people leave a group....they just want to have fun, and if we did that for the people we didn't like...one day it could be done to us too, and it is extremely disheartening. I know there are some wackos on the boards whom we would rather get rid of than to deal with, but what if someone thought that way of us?? It isn't fair that TSE is knocking off people because they are not like Lynch and Dara...that would be like GJO turning away people because they are not like...I dunno, because they are not like Yog and Morg...or not like me and Leia... :lol It's such a random thing...who wants to be like someone else anywayz? Indeed....they are very crazy people and I hope that if a new Sith board fills their place...it'll be a good one I can get my other character involved with....::sigh::

[Lilaena De'Ville]

TSO banished me.

But then, I deserved it. :)

Xazor, the worst that could happen that I can think of is that they could access Temple Avalon through your account.?? Or whatever else secret forums...like this one right here.

[Morgan Evanar]

Yeah, but it wasn't like you couldn't start another character and RP there.

[Ryla Relvinian]

*sigh*

I just finished reading this whole thread. You know, even though I am not the most active person outside of the GJO, I still am glad that they are parting ways. I, for one, personally find it sickening that the powers-that-be of TSE would sink that low. The evidence is clearly against them, and yet they continue to be dishonest. I guess some people can't tell the difference between IC and OOC.

One of the greatest things about this community is the trust... We all are putting ourselves on the line, and expecting others to have the common courtesy to respect that. Sad.

[Figrin D'an]

I've tried to stay essentially neutral in any of the issues involving TSE and some of the members of this community. I know some people in TSE, and I chat fairly regularly with one of the leaders of the group. So, as you can imagine, I hear some interesting perspectives on these situations, including the infiltration incident regarding Daegal. It's really depressing to listen to all of the anomosity and backroom scheming and mistrust that permeates all of these incidents. Despite all that, as I mentioned, I just remained a neutral listener, because I just wanted to post, RP, and be happy.


It's unfortunate that it has to come to this... an entire group of people leaving the community... but, this has been building for quite a while. If they choose to support a person found guilty of privacy invasion... that's their perogative.


I'd like to thank the board staff for being on top of this. It was entirely unpleasent to handle, but it was necessary. The integrity of the community comes first, and it has been maintained. So, as I'm sure many people would agree with me, I'll say, "Thank You."

[TheHolo.Net]

Thank you for the vote of confidence and reassurance that our labors are for and in the best interests of the Community. :)

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ditto to that... it's gonna seem like you have to be the big bad nasty admin, but you're not. You have people who agree with you and will support you, no matter how immature some others choose to be. :]

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Morg: Correct, I was banished, but not banned from the board, by TSO. It was an entirely IC thing, not OOC.

Figrin: I agree. :) Thanks to the staff. :)

[DarthHERA]

I dont have anything against TSE - I have not interacted with that group in a long time, although I have rp'd with individual members and even now have some current threads going. But I have been privy to alot of what has been going on from some and can say, Im not surprised that this is how things are working out.

As long as they take all the nasty crap with them, then this is not a bad move.

No one should have to endure some of the stuff people have been put through by some of those folks (speaking from experience), and such as this latest incident with Ogre and the email, and the way it has been handled. If this move results in this ending, then so be it. Better for everyone all round imo.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Good riddance. Having been a member for about half a year...I can't abide their underhandedness.

As for Sieken, Visc...he's improved a helluva lot. There are RP's I did back in the day that make me shudder. Eventually, people hit their stride.

[Lady Vader]

Head...aches...:x

Well, in all honesty, I'm a bit saddened that a whole group up and left, but at the same time, I'm glad. Because it just seemed like their group had some major internal problems (saw one too many when I was a part of their leadership), and it just seemed to seep out into other ppl. Kinda like a disease.

[ReaperFett]

I registered there, I wasnt banned. I see this as a sucess on my part :)

[Taylor Millard]

I wasn't banned either. I don't necessarily intend to visit there...only do one RP there.

What I find so funny it appears they may not let any of their members post here...

*Shrugs...not my decision.

[Marcus Telcontar]

What I find so funny it appears they may not let any of their members post here...

I hope that's hearsay. I cant imagine them being so daft as to say that

[Darth Viscera]

You can't?

Let's see...didn't TGC do that when it split off from swfans.net? And TMC? And then TGC split into itself and TRF, and TGC did the same thing yet again.

Bah. I think that they are so daft as to say that. They yelled at me because I had Governor whatsisface escape on a cloaked shuttle. They yelled alot :(

[TheHolo.Net]

Too much yelling and not enough fun role playing or fun interaction and plain good communication from them, IMO.

[ReaperFett]

They havent said that that I have heard of.


To be honest, this was quite a clean split. They havent done a Ceel and started trying to sound better than us. They just went and started.

[Taylor Millard]

Fett is right it was a clean split with the group as a whole.

Are there some problems with TSE and their leadership? I think there definitely is.

BUT...they are no longer a member of the SWFans community and I reccommend we just not worry about them anymore (save for me who has that RP to do there. :lol)

I think the circumstances that led them to start a new board is their own business and situated in their leadership not the group as a whole. But let them have their own board, their own fun, and if they succeed then good for them. If not...ah well. They spent the money it's their choice.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Taylor, my word of advice: DOn't worry about getting permission to do an RP there. THats Stupis, IMO. Just DO it. Or get Athena to do it here.

:)

[Taylor Millard]

Well to quote the came, "Where in the world is Athena Lady Darknss?"

Where's Rockapella when I need 'em? :lol