Come inside and list the continuity issues between the OT and the prequals...

[Starquest aka AndyR]

One problem that just popped into my head was when Owen was buying the droids in ANH and 3PO introduced himself. Owen would know very well who he was after living with him for a few years....

And Owen knows very well that he can speak bocchi. :lol

[ReaperFett]

I would say there are many protocol droids, but he did call himself by name :)


There's the 1000 year/1000 generation one. Again, can be fixed, but it's sloppy to have this.


The fact Luke SKYWALKER lived on the same planet as famed Podracer Anakin SKYWALKER, but never thought about it :).


Obi Wan says Anakin was a good friend, although to me it was more of a strained father/son relationship.


If all Stormies are clones, there's a few more here (Why enlist incompetant Admirals? Why not clone them?)


Although it will be fixed, where do the tombstones go? Would Owen REALLY desecrate the grave of his own mum?

[Jedieb]

The clone troopers isn't a problem at all. Stormtroopers are the enlisted, and the Admirals and the rest are officers. The officers are drawn from military academies and other specific institutions. If you want to join the military and aren't a clone you more than likely become an officer. Those positions are bound to be political and highly sought after. you wouldn't clone them all. You could easily have cloned NCO's, but I think it's expected that commisioned officers would be non-clones. I think GL is going to leave us with the impression that most of the guys under the white helmets are clones. They've been grown to be grunts, not officers.

3-PO is going to be a problem. If they'd left the scene with Padme putting on his coverings then they'd have a better time explaining that one. But you're right, Owen does hear his name. How can he miss the name of his Tusken butcher step brother's droid? 3-PO lived and worked with him for YEARS. Did Owen and Beru have their memories wiped as well?

As for Skywalker, that must be the galactic version of Smith. Because if it isn't, then anytime Luke showed off in his Skyhopper someone was bound to put it together. Having Luke on the same planet really is streching it. If you think about it, common sense tells you they would have named Luke, Lars or some other name. They're trying to HIDE him, right? his sister wasn't named Skywalker was she? But there's the reality of making the film, and then the job of trying to make them fit together years later. Tough job, but I think they've done well under the circumstances.

[ReaperFett]

As for Skywalker, that must be the galactic version of Smith
We've met three unrelated ANtilles, I think that is Smith ;)



The clone troopers isn't a problem at all. Stormtroopers are the enlisted, and the Admirals and the rest are officers. The officers are drawn from military academies and other specific institutions. If you want to join the military and aren't a clone you more than likely become an officer. Those positions are bound to be political and highly sought after. you wouldn't clone them all. You could easily have cloned NCO's, but I think it's expected that commisioned officers would be non-clones. I think GL is going to leave us with the impression that most of the guys under the white helmets are clones. They've been grown to be grunts, not officers.
But why? It's obvious many Imperial Officers are incompetant. Dont tell me this clone technology wont work for them?

I personally see it there would be clones everywhere (Unless we see that they cant be cloned any more), but people would be enlisted everywhere also. Cloning costs a lot, so why have them on some backwater planet like Tatooine? Enlist cheap labour instead :)



Having Luke on the same planet really is streching it
Yeah :)

I am glad they used Tatooine. I like the planet. But it almost feels as if Lucas felt he had to make the land he'd bought get major use. COuldn't Watto have travelled to Tatooine with the pair in tow? THat way, they use it, but it isnt too convenient

[Jedieb]

Just because many Imp officers are blockheads doesn't change the fact that it makes sense that the grunts would be clones, and the officers non-clones. It's just like today's military. Walk into a recruiter's office with GED and you're a soldier. Go to college and get a degree and you're an officer who will one day command dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of the enlisted and lower educated soldiers. But just because an officer has that degree doesn't gaurantee he'll make a fine soldier. Any military is littered with well educated, but incompetent officers, but they're still officers. One set gives orders, the other follows them. Like the Kaminos said, the clones were made to be docile and follow orders, they're the perfect foot soldiers. You wouldn't necessarily start cloning officers because you want those positions filled out by political patronage and educated citizens of the Empire.

[ReaperFett]

But you could change the process so theyre not docile, and be making a great officer.

And what about those that do medial jobs, like pilots or Walker drivers?

[Jedieb]

All those jobs are handed out by specialized clones. At Geonosis you saw different clones performing different functions; pilots, squad commanders, gunners, ground troops, etc. They were designated different colors to denote they performed specific functions. But they sentient Jedi were still giving the orders. A modern military equivalent for specialized clones would be the NCO or the petty officer. But they're still commanded and outranked by officers. Take the walker assualt on Hoth. Plenty of cloned Snowtroopers, but who's in charge? Veers. The cloned Snowtroopers can be looked at as nothing more than walking rifles. I think that's how GL could easily let it play out. Anything under a helmet is a clone. But you don't make the ENTIRE military out of clones because you want to control the clones, not the other way around. How do you control your clones, with sentient (for lack of a better word) officers.

[ReaperFett]

Hierchy. Clone is above clone, is above clone, is above clone :)

[JMK]

To me, the Imperial soldier situation is not very complicated. At least it doesn't have to be. White helmet = clone. Lucas could play it out that way and keep it simple. He's got far more to worry about with Threepio and his situation with the Lars'. I have no idea how he will explain this one, and have it be plausible, but I think he should focus more on that than anything else.

[ReaperFett]

I get the feeling he wont explain it

[Doc Milo]

On Owen and Threepio:

Are we so sure that Owen doesn't recognize Threepio in ANH?

Bear with me here: Say Owen sees Threepio on the droid line-up. The last he saw of that droid, it was going off with his old master, Anakin. Since that time, when Owen knows what happened to Anakin, becoming the tyrant Darth Vader. He doesn't know what Threepio knows. He doesn't know if Threepio was sent in by Anakin to find Luke. He doesn't know if Threepio knows anything about Luke. All he knows is that this droid that used to work for him is back. And he has to find out what the droid knows -- or better yet, buy it, and wipe its memory for good.

As for the name Skywalker:

Why would it send up red-flags? No one knows that Anakin has become Darth Vader. To the galaxy, Anakin is dead. Darth Vader is a whole different entity. Skywalker wouldn't be a big name. To the people on Tatooine, Skywalker may just be the name of an ancient fallen hero. Darth Vader nor the Emperor knows that Padme had any kids, and are not actively looking for any. So, there would be no red flags associated with the name.

[darth_mcbain]

Originally posted by Doc Milo
Are we so sure that Owen doesn't recognize Threepio in ANH?

Bear with me here: Say Owen sees Threepio on the droid line-up. The last he saw of that droid, it was going off with his old master, Anakin. Since that time, when Owen knows what happened to Anakin, becoming the tyrant Darth Vader. He doesn't know what Threepio knows. He doesn't know if Threepio was sent in by Anakin to find Luke. He doesn't know if Threepio knows anything about Luke. All he knows is that this droid that used to work for him is back. And he has to find out what the droid knows -- or better yet, buy it, and wipe its memory for good.


That is a really good insight - it makes sense if you consider Owen's line "I want you to take those droids to Anchorhead and have their memory erased. That'll be the end of it, they belong to us now". He knows what happened to Anakin. Owen never wanted to be involved in any of the events of the galaxy - he wanted to be a simple farmer and not get involved. By erasing Threepio's memory, that will help to close that chapter in his life.

[ReaperFett]

If that was so, why even buy the droid? I dont beleive they couldnt have got a good deal from Mos Eisley

[Doc Milo]

He'd buy the droid because he doesn't really know if Anakin somehow found out about children. That would be Owen's constant fear. He sees the droid. The droid sees him -- and sees Luke. He wouldn't recognize Luke -- but Owen doesn't really know that, doesn't know what Threepio would recognize. So, he buys the droid to wipe its memory once and for all. To let it go with the knowledge that Anakin's step-brother was living as the father to someone the kid called "uncle Owen" would be a dangerous thing.

[ReaperFett]

So why didnt he go straght off to get it wiped? Instead of getting them cleaned up, then leaving it to Luke?

[Doc Milo]

Because he didn't want to make it seem like anything was wrong ... maybe?

[ReaperFett]

WHy would he think anything is wrong? Say he needs to go anyway, drop Luke off, WIPE EM! :)

[JMK]

Let's face it, we're grasping at straws here. We don't know what the hell is really going on, or what is really going to happen. I think its highly unlikely Lucas had a clear vision of where the prequels were going to take him, especially on the Lars/Luke/3P0 issue. Now he's got a huge continuity problem and he's going to have to be really crafty in order to pull it off.

But the name of the game around here is speculating, so game on!

[JediBoricua]

Obi Wan's line: "I don't recall ever owning a droid?"

But wait a second, wasn't R2D2 the one that did a bad job of alerting the jedi of the presence of those killer slugs in Padme's room.

I think the biggest problem with continuity will be the droids, I sure wish Lucas would not have brought them into the prequels, it forces us to make this explanations...Either he has something up his sleeves, or we will be resigned to believe some things simply are.

[ReaperFett]

Obi Wan was a natural liar though. And technically, he didn't OWN R2 ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

No no no.... he tells the truth... from a certain point of view.

Actually, I wonder if he DID recognise R2? Well, maybe he should have, definantly. Boricua, your quite right, continuanty probelms are mainly caused by the droids. And right now, we dont have a lot of logical answers, only guessing. OH, for the droids, its easy to wave their memory lapses, but for the humans? Not so easy. I'd also agree, Anakin would have been famous on Tatooine, even thirty years later. Another Skywalker, skilled at flying should have raised a few eyebrows at the least.

[darth_mcbain]

I'd be willing to bet though, that a a lot of the astromech droids look pretty similar. Just because we haven't seen one that looks exactly like Artoo doesn't mean that there couldn't be thousands of mass produced R2-D2 units that look completely identical. I don't get the impression that Artoo was a custom job, so to speak... So Obi-Wan may see Artoo in the OT and think, well, its just another one of those R2 units, seen hundreds of those before - why should this one be so special... And, as Reap pointed out, he never "owned" Artoo. In Ep. I and II, R2 belongs more to Padme.

[ReaperFett]

But the range is R2, not R2-D2

[Miklon]

I would assume that during his time in the Jedi Order and spaning the galactic, Obi-Wan had seen and met hundreds of R2 series astromechs. And he had interaction with R2-D2 for a total of, I would say a month in the PT. So I doubt Obi-Wan committed his identifier to memory.

As for the missing graves in OT: I think Lucas will go back and add those in for the DVDs.

[ReaperFett]

Maybe we will see who was in the Graves. My moneys on Shimi, Owen's mother and Clegg's leg :)

[Starquest aka AndyR]

I think I just figured an easy way out for lucas.
He should have owen do the memory wipe at the end of ep III. That would sum it up just fine.

It would play out kind of like in total recall. "I want you to erase any knowledge of us or recall, refund his money. and if anyone comes asking, we never heard of douglas quaid. "

Owen "We need to erase the memory on those droids, in case they ever come in contact with Anakin again."

Padme "But what if someone comes looking for them?"

Owen "If we ever see them or anakin again, we just pretend that we have never seen them, and that will be the end of it."

*ended with a trademark owen line... :lol *

[JMK]

Hmm, very possible Starquest. Maybe all those questions that Owen was asking 3P0 when he was buying them was more of a test than anything. Perhaps he was prodding him to see what kind of programming he had, or what he actually knew.

[JediBoricua]

It's actually no problem having another skywalker in tatooine. Remember that Owen and Luke liven in the wastelands of Tatooine, far from any urban center, and Owen does not seem to like any attention whatsoever. So he flew with his friends, it does not mean that he was a racer of any sort. It also seems that Mos Eisley and Mos Espa are far apart, or so Watto says in EPII.

[JMK]

I would think word spreads quick on Tatooine. Biggs called Luke the best pilot in the outer rim territories. For sure he isn't the only one who thinks that.

[JediBoricua]

Maybe, or because he had flown with Luke frequently and he considers him the best ace in the outer rim. It does not mean that his womp rat killing techniques are universaly renown.

Anyway I have the feeling that there will be many inconsistencies left unanswered so we might me having this debate for ages.

[BUFFJEDI]

Maybe we will see who was in the Graves. My moneys on Shimi, Owen's mother and Clegg's leg that's wrong in so many way's :( But so Dam6 funny :lol :lol


no matter what you guy's say Starwars is PERFECT , you hear me PERFECT:cry

[Jedi Master Carr]

Its hard to say how rememember the name Skywalker would be but as Doc said most would have knew Anakin was dead and Vader or the Emperor wasn't looking for him so I don't think it mattered. 3p0 is a different matter that is the only major contunity problem that I see at the moment but that could be fixed easly in Ep 3.

[ReaperFett]

"...you were always there for me. You gave me balance, and helped me kick stuff. A little peice of me died when I buried you, Leg. I'll never forget you"

:)

[Jedieb]

:lol

I don't think Owen had ANY recollection of 3-PO when he first purchased him. The only thing that set him off was the mention of Obi-Wan's name. That's what prompted him to have the droids' memories erased. If the Padme & 3-PO scene had been kept then it would have been easier to explain Owen's lack of recognition. Owen would have only seen 3-PO with coverings for around a day or so. That's not enough time to make an impression. Plus, 3PO does have different coverings, except for the leg, by the time we get to ANH so he doesn't look exactly the same. I think that droids are so common place that they all start to look alike. Although technology sure evolves slowly in that galaxy when you consider old droids can still perform technical tasks DECADES later. I mean try logging on to these boards with a Commodore 64! Doesn't anybody update anything in that galaxy? :p

[JMK]

I think that droids are so common place that they all start to look alike.
Are you becoming droid-racist in your old age???? o_O

:lol

[BUFFJEDI]

Dam6 , does that mean I'm going to have to hate Eb(s) too ??^_^;

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the droids can be upgraded (new things added to them, new software etc) it would probably be too expensive to make new ones, that is just my guess.

[JMK]

Also remember that it was hard for anyone outside of the Empire to get their hands on new technology, so they were stuck with improving what they already had.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thats true, also the Imperial droids did seem more advanced than the Rebel's.

[Doc Milo]

The Owen/Threepio thing really isn't a "major problem" continuity wise, because it can be explained with a simple lack of memory from an crabby old man who's led a hard life.

I don't remember -- haven't watched ANH in a while. Does Threepio tell Owen his designation? Like everyone else has said. All protocol droids pretty much look alike. Slightly different coverings, and Owen doesn't recognize Threepio any more than I would recognize a car I owned 24 years ago from another car of the same model, make, year -- especially if the color had changed.

[ReaperFett]

I believe he said "Hello sir, I am C-3P0, human cyborg relations", although he might have been asked without saying.

[darth_mcbain]

Owen: You... I suppose you're programmed for etiquette and protocol?

Threepio: Protocol? Why its my primary function sir.

Owen: I have no need for a protocol droid.

Threepio: Of course you haven't sir, not in an environment such as this. That is why...

Owen: What I really need is a droid that understands the binary language of moisture vaporators.

Threepio: Vaporators? Sir, my previous job was programming binary load lifters, very similar to your vaporators in most respects.

Owen: Can you speak Bocche?

Threepio: Of course I can, sir its like a second language.

Owen: Ok shut up I'll take this one...

Threepio: Shutting up, sir!



He never mentions his designation to him that I can recall.

[JMK]

I don't think he does either. The first time he introduces himself is to Luke in the garage.

[Jedieb]

Here's another continuity issue for you;

That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

Now, if you work hard enough, you can come up with a lot of convuluted explanations for that, but the INTENT of that line is pretty obvious. At the time, Lucas probably envisioned Anakin and Owen living on Tatooine together for some time. Then Anakin leaves to fight either in the Clone Wars or with the Jedi in some other battle. Owen obviously thinks Anakin should stay put and not get involved. If just goes to show that while Lucas had an outline of a backstory, he didn't have the details of the prequels nailed down. It's interesting though that in the same scene you get this beauty;

How did my father die?

BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.
What's so great about those lines is that Guiness plays them BEAUTIFULLY. You can tell by the expression on his face and the pause in his delivery that he's LYING. So Lucas has major plot points like 'Darth Vader is Luke's father' in place, but prequel backstory specifics are nothing but a hazy outline. There's only SO much he could set up. When you consider that a lot of those lines were written by other people you can see why it's so difficult to keep everything straight. I think they've done a pretty good job over all. It's just impossible to have everything fit together over the course of 6 movies and 30 years. Especially when you consider he didn't know if he'd even be able to make all 9 of them. That plan certainly changed, didn't it? No matter how much GL tries to change with the OT they'll always be some little thing that on the surface seems out of place or slightly contradictory. It's a FANTASY after all, not something he intended us to study like the Zapruder film.:cool

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is a good point Jedieb, though I guess Obi-Wan was just lying other wise he might find out too much information. Of course in EP 3 Owen could say something like that, Anakin shouldn't have gotten involved. But we will have to wait to see on that.

[JMK]

Maybe Anakin returns to Tatooine to mourn with the Lars family after his wedding. There they get to know Anakin a little better and that's where Owen learns about Ani's "ideals". But you're right Jedieb, Guiness, in hindsight is clearly selling little white lies and not telling the whole truth. Also, the way he describes it, saying that Darth Vader killed your father is more motivational to become a Jedi than Darth Vader IS your father and be pissed scared of him.

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

Yet if Anakin did that, then Owen would have yet MORE time to get to know 3PO and remember him. Meh. Who knows?

Twenty-five years is a long time to remember a piece of machinery. Would any of you remember an old computer you had twenty-five years ago, as a middle-aged man? Maybe computer is a bad example. A dog, assuming one could live that long?

Those bits about Clegg's leg are hilarious. :) Concerning the tombstones, though, Jawas/Sandpeople could have stolen them, or sandstorms have worn them down to nothing.

And concerning why the Skywalker name is not known planet-wide and recognized... even fifteen years is quite a while to remember a name. Anakin won only a SINGLE podrace in his entire life, after all. Not to mention that Tatooine is a big planet. Would you remember the name of some racecar driver in China, assuming they had them, after fifteen years? Luke is probably only known to be a great pilot by his friends, although even the recluse Ben knows of it (though he's obviously keeping an eye on Luke while hiding out on Tatooine). Biggs was much more experienced in the ways of the galaxy than Luke, he joins the Academy and everything - so even if just he knew that Luke could shoot up womp rats really well, he could realize Luke was a better pilot than most others he'd ever seen. It's a personal opinion, anyway, so there is no definate indication that Luke is renowned even all over the wastelands, let alone the entire planet.