Euro Reaches Parity Against Dollar

[Dutchy]

1 Euro = 1 Dollar.

Or actually right now it's $1.0070.

For the first time since February 2000 our new currency matches the US dollar, or actually slightly beats it.

Euro Reaches Parity Against Dollar (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=509&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20020715/ap_on_bi_ge/euro_parity_6)

[JMK]

Does every single European nation deal with the Euro? What about Britain, do they use it too?

[ReaperFett]

Nope, nor Greece, Denmark or Sweden. And only countries in the EU then, so a few others still dont

[Khan Surak]

The DOW just fell 280 points.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JMK
Does every single European nation deal with the Euro? What about Britain, do they use it too?

Nope, 12 countries have joined: Germany, France, Spain, Finland, Greece, Belgium, Italy, Austria, Luxemburg, Portugal, Ireland and The Netherlands.

The UK should join when they think it's safe, or so they said.

[Jedi Master Carr]

If the stock market keeps dropping at that pace I think the Euro will be way ahead of the dollar soon.

[ReaperFett]

"They" being Tony Blair and more or less noone else :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Funny how it's Blair only pushing the Euro. What's in it for him?

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
"They" being Tony Blair and more or less noone else :)

Of course not, the British rather stick to stuff they're used to for the past 1000 years. :)

Though in this case I can't blame them, because I definitely would have wanted to keep our guilder.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'm not really sure it's a great idea to hand monetary policy over to Brussels anyway, because that is in reality is what you do.

[ReaperFett]

Funny how it's Blair only pushing the Euro. What's in it for him?

Whats in it for him following Bush round like a dog? IMO, he wants as much power as possible. The Euro is step one to Europe being one large community. And they'd need a leader

[Jedi Master Carr]

With the other two most powerful countries in Europe in and one of the top 3 in GPA in the world, Germany, I think England has no choice to join, with them the Euro also will be stronger and it will make the European economy stronger too.

[ReaperFett]

Sure they have a choice. Does Canada and Mexico join with the US?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Whats in it for him following Bush round like a dog? IMO, he wants as much power as possible. The Euro is step one to Europe being one large community. And they'd need a leader

Somehow, that rings really, really true.

[ReaperFett]

Emperor Blair :)


He's already using his power. He's meade all the other parties worse choices ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Why does that not surprise me? Really, he's a bit like John Howard in Australia - just does whats good for him, not everyone else

[ReaperFett]

He'll let us vote if we should join, and will take it under consideration as he signs us up :)

[JMK]

You guys aren't apprehensive or disenchanted with your governments are you????? ;)

[ReaperFett]

DOnt worry, Im disenchanted about yours too :)

[JMK]

Ah, thank goodness, an equal opportunity hater.

[ReaperFett]

Damn right ;)

[JMK]

:lol
I can see how Jean Chretien could get under everyone's skin...

[Marcus Telcontar]

Gee, disenchanted with a butt kisser who lied about a refugee propbelm so he coud get elected? Nah, NEVER!

[JMK]

Is there a country that is satisfied with their government? I think not. :p

[Sanis Prent]

Sure there are....

...but they're the ones with state-run media ;)

At any rate, with an approval rate in the mid seventies...Dubya has as close to a full backing as any president since Roosevelt is probably going to get. Yes, he comes off as a buffoon at times (which is largely undeserved), but his real legacy will be his cabinet, which I must say, has done quite well.

If you surround yourself with good people, you can be a goofy country bumpkin and still be a good leader. After all, outside of the cabinet, the executive branch is really only there for veto power, kissing babies, and pressing the red button that should never be pressed :mneh

[JonathanLB]

"wanted to keep our guilder."

WTF is that?! lol. Nobody outside of wherever you are has probably ever heard of it, haha.

Personally, I was really happy to see the introduction of the Euro and I'm glad it has done well! I think it is a HUGE step for humanity becoming more like one planet instead of a billion different little countries that have nothing to do with each other. Eventually, we should have a common language, currency, and hopefully a peaceful world where countries are not at each other's throats. That's long off, and I don't mean utopia, but I mean if ever we are going to make real advances into space, the real frontier, I think the planet will have to be more united.

I personally don't care that much about sticking to "the dollar." I mean whatever, I think eventually we should all use one common currency. It'd be so much easier. I'd switch to another form of currency, I'm not stubborn there, hehe, whatever it may be, that'd be cool. The Euro is a nice step in that direction I think.

The dollar is not doing that well now unfortunately because of the weak economy, but eventually it'll rebound. The market closed down only 45 after being down as much as 439...

The problem with the currencies is that $5 is like 5 billion pessos or something. Those things are worthless except as kitchen tiles, x-mas ornaments, paper weights, and probably a few other things I haven't thought of. You know the joke... how do you start a parade in Mexico? Roll a quarter down the street! lol.

[ReaperFett]

WTF is that?! lol. Nobody outside of wherever you are has probably ever heard of it, haha.
Actually, probably ever person in the world who knows anything knows that. Of all the countries that took the Euro, I could probably tell you what currency they used to use for all but one. I dont know, they say ignorance is bliss ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'd rather be in a little place called Australia, with our own currency and under own government, with or own culture, than have any more of this Global Community crap. One people, one planet sounds like hell to me.

The Netherlands had the Guilder, France the France, Germany the Dueshmark, Spain Pesos, errr..... who else in the EU? Beliguim was the franc I think too. You were saying about no one knowing the currencies?

[Darth23]

Originally posted by ReaperFett


Whats in it for him following Bush round like a dog? IMO, he wants as much power as possible....


Who are you, GEORGE MICHAEL?

;) :p :D

[ReaperFett]

George Michael started saying that after most :)

[Doc Milo]

I'd rather be in a little place called Australia, with our own currency and under own government, with or own culture, than have any more of this Global Community crap. One people, one planet sounds like hell to me.

I'm in agreement with Marcus on this one. I absolutely hate the idea of a "Global Community." Why should the economic policy of any nation be determined by factors in any other nation. That's what Foreign Policy is for.

Jonathan, do you really want a welfare system that takes from your earnings to give to someone over in Amsterdam?

Another factor that will fall deaf on any non-believer's ears, one of the signs of the apocalypse as written in the Book of Revelation is a one world government under the rule of antichrist.

[ReaperFett]

one of the signs of the apocalypse as written in the Book of Revelation is a one world government under the rule of antichrist
See? Tony Blair again :)

[JMK]

Like the Galactic Senate??? o_O

[Lady Vader]

Man, if the dollar keeps dropping, I may just move to England, work there for a few years, and then move back to the states and be FILTHY RICH!!! BWAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHAAA!!!!

Of course, this is all in theory... :D

[ReaperFett]

lol :)

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
"wanted to keep our guilder."

WTF is that?! lol. Nobody outside of wherever you are has probably ever heard of it, haha.

The Dutch guilder is the most beautiful money this world has ever had. :)

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0702/guilders.jpg

Wooden shoe agree?


Personally, I was really happy to see the introduction of the Euro and I'm glad it has done well! I think it is a HUGE step for humanity becoming more like one planet instead of a billion different little countries that have nothing to do with each other.

As for language and money, yes, that would be convenient. I'd still like to keep our own language, though. I'm not too fond of this whole global thinking. Foreign countries are interesting because they are different. If they'd all become the same this world would be a much duller place.

I'm surprised you wouldn't mind giving up on the American dollar, by the way. Doesn't match your usual arrogant American attitude. :)

[Dutchy]

Hmmm... it looks like you have to copy/paste that image link to another browser window for it to work.

Well, it's worth it. :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

I rather like the plastic money we have in Australia - I think we were the first to have polymer and not paper.

[ReaperFett]

I like being able to waft notes :)

[Jedieb]

Sure there are....

...but they're the ones with state-run media

:lol It's really sad that that statement rings so true. People in China and Cuba are thrilled with their governments. But you'll have to wait until they get released from prison or the tank driver backs up to ask them.

So one government one, one world huh? Great, but I wonder how many of my fellow Americans would chant that tune if it involved giving up English as their language. Seems to me that kind of undertaking is going to require a lot of work. Anybody got a copy of Das Kapital lying around?

[ReaperFett]

Das Kapital?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Karl Marx

This one world thing reminds me of something Hitler said - cant remember the quote now.... but everytime I hear Global Community, I gets reminded of it

[Figrin D'an]

Karl Marx's famous book...

[ReaperFett]

So I havent heard of it's name! :)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Actually, that's not surprising. Considering Marxism has been discredited and I actually have not heard it mentioned for a long time now. However..... I dont know if he was entirely wring. A lot of his economic theories I think centreed on the problems with greed and the Bouswa (sp) enslaving the proles.

Maybe it should be relooked at, cause sometimes I wonder if he werent really saying something very insightful. The problem is, his work is associated with the failed regimes in Russia and other former Communist countries.

[Khan Surak]

The Japanese had an idea for one large Asian community back in the 30s, called the Co-Prosperity Sphere or something like that.

Marx's work was seen by people like Ulyanov, Ho Chi Minh, and Mao to be a way to end the problems of troubled nations while at the same time reserving power for themselves. The type of Communism now rampant in east and southeast asia is a mutation of what he wrote about. I can see sometime in the future all the Asian communisms becoming another Communist bloc. North Korea, China, Vietnam, Mongolia, and a couple others in the south.

[JediBoricua]

The problem with marxist theory and the communism that has been implemented troughout history is that Marx advocated for communism to be implemented on fully developed and industrialized countries were jobs were plentiful and the profits were enough to fairly distribute them throught the population. But all the countries in which communism has been established were not industrialized. Russia, China, Cuba all had an agricultural economy, and still do, hence socialism/communism has been unable to reach its fullets potential. There is also the problem of greedy dictadors who eat the biggest piece of the pie.

The irony of this is that no industralized country will embrace communish because those who have the power are those who control the industry. Take for instance the US were 1% of the population controls the 80% of the multinational companies and the revenues. No way in hell will the dominant class give up their wealth and mansions to give it to the poor. It just wont happen, and that is why you need a revolution, that will destroy the economy and once your done, you have a poor country that cannot fully implement communism. I don't know if I make sense, but it is a vicious circle.

[JediBoricua]

Wont happen, the Asian Block.

Three Reasons: WTO, World Bank and IMF.

[Dutchy]

Almost 9 months later and getting close to a war 1 Euro right now costs $1.10, which puts the US dollar at its lowest point since March 1999.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Well, the major catalyst in currencies is short term uncertainty. Ask almost any economist and you'll hear the same. When the Iraq issue is settled, you'll see a normalization of trading. Another aspect worth noting is that the French Empi...whoops...EU, is increasing its GDP not only with standard economic improvements, but by swallowing other countries whole. So while the short term seems to favor the Euro, the long term isn't so clear. What will be interesting to see is if there are any instances of pushing and shoving in Chirac's sandbox in the years to come.

[imported_Eve]

I can't believe and educated person would even consider Socialism or Communism.

They will look back and say that this is the time where people failed to look at Captain Obvious (or history for that matter) for answers. Jees people.

[Diego Van Derveld]

I used to be a socialist.

I also used to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.

They all share in common the need for childlike, idealistic naivete. Socialism and Communism don't work, because the architechts fail to consider the nature of man. They want to believe that man is an equitable, and altruistic being, that is consistently able to look after the needs of the many as he's able to look out for number one. That, ladies and gents, is a crock. Were it true, the politburos of all these regimes would live a lifestyle in parity with the rest of the body proletariat, and (gasp) transfer power amongst them at some point. Most, if not all, of history's politburos have been fabulously wealthy dictators for life. It fails at the top, and keeps failing all the way down through the system. Nowadays, whenever I hear somebody tell me they're a socialist or a communist, I smile, pat them on the shoulder and say "Talk to me in a few years, after you live in the real world."

[JonathanLB]

Haha, for once, I agree with you.

And this was funny:

"I can't believe and educated person would even consider Socialism or Communism."

I agree with that, too.

I don't see that much difference in socialism and communism in that they are both so drastically idiotic and unacceptable that I would refuse to live in either such society.

[Diego Van Derveld]

There are drastic differences between socialism and communism...wider than the gulf between democrat and republican, at least. Socialism is somewhere between democracy and communism. It calls for massive government reform and intervention, but not so much the control of society that communism requires. Socialists are proponents of heavy subsidies to welfare, medical care programs, and unions. They also expound on salary restrictions, and other market controls above and beyond that. A good example of a socialist nation in action is Finland.

[JonathanLB]

You act like I don't know this already. The gap is not wide at all! In communism the wealth is entirely redistributed. In socialism, it is only mostly redistributed. Gee, big difference there. In Switzerland I think it is, your income is capped at $100,000 or whatever. That's not far from communism in effect.

The massive social programs that the government thrusts onto its people in socialist socities are not that much better than the total control of a communist society where "everyone gets what they need," or not, as the case always is.

[Diego Van Derveld]

If you look at the sum of all possible policies and worldviews, republicans and democrats are far closer in view than socialists and communists. While they do act in a "leftist solidarity" to a degree, there are massive differences in application (such as the lack of a market economy in communist nations) that aren't so severe in democratic parties. I could go on and on here, but suffice to say its a sizeable enough gulf to easily tell a difference.

[JediBoricua]

Not necesarilly Jon because in socialism private individuals own properties, corporations and other private venues. In communism that does not exist. With Socialism you don't have quotas of how much meat per family, or milk, etc.

Call me an idealist, but I do believe in social democracy. It would be excellent to live in a society were everyone has the same access to quality health, schools and the same opportunity to succed (ok this is not 100% true, but a child born poor in Helsinki has more chance at becoming something that a child born poor in New York). Findland, Denmark, the Neatherlands and most of the Nordic countries have a higher standard of living than the US. Of the top cities to live I believe 9 were from those countries.

On other news, the dollar being weaker than the euro is good news for the US right now. It means that their exports will be bought in other countries now with cheaper prices. I believe last trimester was the first time the industrial sector had revenues in about two or three years, which means exportations are on the rise. And with a war looming, weapon sales will mean big bucks for the US.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Weapon sales to who, though? Certainly not the EU. Their militaries don't have much revenue to throw away on new hardware acquisition. Most of their military spending goes toward soldiers' pay benefits, military union costs, and other manpower issues. If you want to talk about Social Democracy, that's it at its finest :rolleyes.

As far as said poor child in Helsinki, he might be better off at first, but end up getting caught up in an economic malaise that doesn't duly reward success. Its good for idealism, but I doubt its pragmatic use, to be honest.

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm not exactly sure how other militaries operate beyond what they field, but I do know many of the joint European ventures often end up in the toilet. A few notable exceptions like the Panavia Tornado crop up now and again.

Its little wonder the British invested in the Joint Strike Fighter project instead of another European venture. For those of you not in the know, the JSF is slated to replace the F-16, the F/A 18 and the Harrier, with minor airframe modications for each version. The Navy has sturdier landing gear, the Marines have full VTOL capability etc.

Moderate socialism isn't bad, in terms of things like education and health. I certainly don't think communism works at all beyond a scale of three or four thousand. You're too distant from your neighbor to really know or care if he has wealth parity above or below yours. It assumes everyone is good, and not trying to push their way to the top of the pile.

Anyone knows thats flat out not true.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Social democracy would be okay, were you able to pick and choose the good things from the crap-pile. I'd love to improve medical benefits and coverage, but I'd abhor subsidizing the big unions. They're already too damn strong. That, and salary regulation (blarg). They need to be more careful. Removing economic incentive for the "greater good" may work in the short term, but it's a recipe for stagnation over time.

I mean, we're already a social democracy in many ways...so I figure its just a matter of arranging the apples we already have in our cart.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Socialism can work in small countries like Finland it is just easier their, also isn't Sweden also a socialist state?

[Diego Van Derveld]

Not sure. Most "democracies" in Europe are social democracies though.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know France and Germany are I was thinking Sweden was more like Finland but I could be wrong.

[Diego Van Derveld]

Actually, I think its Sweden that's the socialist state, not Finland. For some inexplicable reason, I get those two confused.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I knew I thought Sweden was a socialist state, I actually have no clue about Finland :p maybe we need to ask Yoghurt since he lives closest to them.

[JMK]

Dutchy would probably know as well.

[JonathanLB]

"As far as said poor child in Helsinki, he might be better off at first, but end up getting caught up in an economic malaise that doesn't duly reward success."

I do think Diego is absolutely right here. He knows what he's talking about with regard to the dangers of adopting a socialist system. The U.S., as he points out, already has plenty of social programs and expansion of these further is bound to be dangerous.

You cannot have a society where everyone starts out perfectly even anyway, well ok that isn't true, you COULD, maybe, but we don't use eugenics yet, and the ethics of that are questionable (Gattaca). Furthermore, people don't like having their money taken away by the government. Taxes are already way too high and programs should be cut, not added.

[Jedieb]

Its little wonder the British invested in the Joint Strike Fighter project instead of another European venture.
Lockheed won a close competition with Boeing to build the JSF. It's a rather amazing aircraft. It'll be the first vertical liftoff jet that can also break the sound barrier. That's one of the features that helped Lockheed beat out Boeing. I saw a great NOVA special on the project.

My experiences with Communism are through my parents. Communism never lives up to its ideals. In order to maintain power the state usually ends up repressing its citizens. Stagnation is often the result of massively controlled state economies IMO. All over Havana paint is peeling and buildings are run down in part because there's no incentive to maintain and repair things that you will never own.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Economic theory is jsut that - theory. It's not fact, it's not law. The standard joke about econoic professionals is that get 50 of them in a room, you'll get 51 different opinions.

Economics may give good insight at certain times, but all systems, capitalist, communist, whater-ist are badly flawed because of one simple fact - people are unpredictable. While you can say xyz will happen, if the people dont make it happen, it wont. People's expectations change and what they do changes. Communism is a good sytem if the people go with it and the leadership is not corrupt. Capitalism has to regulated as unrestricted, it's a disaster too - look at things like Enron or the greed and power hunger of businesses.

No system is perfect, no system can answer the problems. No system is right. A lot has to do with the fact your dealign with people. And the fact the peole who tend to get into positions of power are not the ones that should have it.

That really is the bottom line and know that someone will try to put forth theories and stuff to discount. Sorry, theorise all you want, the fact is while you have a system filled with humans, you stand two chances in a snowball in heck of getting it right and finding a system that works.

[JonathanLB]

I'm not sure I agree with you there. I think there should be far fewer restrictions placed on businesses. We should have more of a truly free market. I don't see anything wrong with what Microsoft has ever done, yet the government continues to punish success by trying to make idiotic accusations of monopoly.

Some restrictions in capitalism are probably for the greater good, but I think there are too many of them.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Microsoft hasn't done anythign wrong????????

There is no accusations. Microsft IS a monopoly and as any person in the computing industry can tell you, that is a fact. Beign a monopoly is not illegal. Using that monopoly power to crush competitors is.

Granted AOL / Su / Oracle are evil as well. But to say MS hasnt done anything wrong.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it's not restrained, there wont be a Software industry outside of Microsoft. They are in the position to do it. When you have a market by the gonads as MS has, you can literally do just about anything. Liek to have an ufettered monopoly control your computer? I sure dont.

[JediBoricua]

Jonathan what you saying, you wanna return to the lates 1800's and early 1900's when there was one or two railroad companies, one or two electric companies, one or two steel companies, etc. Where workers had 16 hour shift with a miserable pay, where there was no regulations on working enviroment, where there was no social security. C'mon you gotta be kidding me, I mean I know you control the ways of production, but what you propose (and I'm not using this specific thread to base my argument) is insane. Fact is neo-liberalism is not working.

[JonathanLB]

Oh god, whatever. The attempts to thwart Microsoft are just more idiotic government interferences into the private sector and the free market.

There is nothing wrong with their practices. A company should do EVERYTHING it can to crush its competition, as long as that doesn't involve breaking any other laws. It's not against any reasonable law to tell Netscape to get their stupid @$$ browser the heck out of a respectable operating system and include your own browser there instead. That's just good business. Any company of any size should do whatever it must to crush its competition and destroy them completely, ideally, forcing them to declare bankruptcy. This isn't about being nice or considerate -- it's about utterly annihilating your enemies.

If the competition cannot keep up, they deserve to be destroyed. If there ever was another damaging monopoly, there is plenty of money in the U.S., and the world, to stop that very quickly. If Microsoft ever raised prices to like $45,000 for Windows 2005 or whatever, then another company would just make another operating system that would cost $100 and Microsoft would officially be screwed. The market protects itself. That's the beauty of capitalism -- it works without restrictions. The days of the railroads are much different than now where money changes hands so easily and there are literally thousands of wealthy investors who could challenge any monopoly if it really threatened consumers. Plus, why would Microsoft ever want to produce an inferior product or a product that is too expensive? If they did, software is a cheap industry to break into with very little startup costs. It would be easy for anyone else to build an empire to challenge them. If they ever got complacent, the competition would sweep them away like dust on the floor of an Intel cleanroom.

No government policing is required in this case. Maybe in the most extreme cases, but certainly not with Microsoft.

[Jedieb]

People, you have to frame the discussion in terms that Jon can relate to!

Jon, imagine if there was only 1 studio in Hollywood and it WASN'T Dreamworks or FOX. In fact, FOX and Dreamworks have been run out of business by Gates Films. Lucas gives up on SW after ANH because he doesn't have the control he wants and Spielberg can only make movies that Gates thinks will make money. OH THE INHUMANITY OF IT ALL!!!!!! :crack

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah its called a monopoly and its wrong and its illegal, one company can't control all the market, because if it does it can charge what ever it wants.

[JediBoricua]

If the gvment allowed Microsoft to run rampant and 'annihilate' it's competitors who then would stop them from chargin 10,000 bucks for Windows 2005. On paper capitalism is self-governing, but in practice when another provider surfaces to the market the big and powerful corporation, Microsoft in this instance, would not let it see the light of day. And since the gvmnent can't intervene we would be all screwed.

Also capitalism is self-governing because of competition, take that out and it's nothing more than an economic dictatorship. The government is there to make sure that a competition will exist.

[JMK]

Yeah, a little healthy competition is good. Remeber Mr. Plow vs. Plow King? :D

[Jedieb]

:lol
That them song and Homer puttin' on the Mr. Plow jacket to get some. pure GOLD.

[Sanis Prent]

Jon, you really need to read Sinclair's "The Jungle". Unrestricted capitalism = bad. This, from a major fan of capitalism.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah there were a lot of problems back in the 1890-1910 period. Sinclair changed a lot of that, the Jungle showed those dangers, if the govt. allowed captalitism to go unchecked we be eating who knows what in our food.

[JediBoricua]

The Mr. Plow episode was my favorite for some years, and the funny thing is that have only seen it in spanish!

"Me llama usted, allí yo voy, Don Barredora es quien yo soy!"

[Sanis Prent]

Yeah there's no question that some regulation is needed in the economy, because of people who would do something like that. I think the economy is a tad bit on the overregulated side myself, but that is to say that the things that are overregulated outnumber that which isn't regulated enough.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well if there is an area that should be overregulated it is food industry that is the area that is the most concern, IMO.

[Morgan Evanar]

Deregulated capitalism = blood in the streets. Read you some turn of the century history.

[JonathanLB]

"Unrestricted capitalism = bad"

I do think you are right here, unquestionably. I am just saying that SOMETIMES I think there is too much regulation today. You are all free to disagree and you may very well be entirely correct, and I wrong, but I think Microsoft is not a dangerous monopoly and does not need to be interfered with by our government.

As I said, anyone could challenge them on the software front if they were indeed the only company making an operating system. Do you think Dell would pay $5,000 for Windows 2005, or do you think they would just simply find another company to make a cheaper operating system? This is capitalism we are talking about here guys -- there is no way that any company would pay a ridiculous sum of money for that. They would, if they needed to, form their own joint-venture between, say, Dell, Gateway, Packard Bell, and IBM to create their own software company to make their own operating system. At that point, with the resources of these huge companies pooled, bye-bye Microsoft. Forever.

The pressures of the free market would crush Microsoft like a tin can under a semi-truck wheel.

Totally unrestricted capitalism would be dangerous, though, because you need regulation of food, drugs (and by that I mean legal drugs -- I don't believe in the DEA or anything they do and frankly think it's an idiotic waste of my money and everyone else's money, too), and other various parts of the economy. It would be dangerous to have companies able to do whatever they want, answering to nobody but consumers. The government should exist as a watchful guardian, but not an active participant. They need to stay out of business affairs as much as possible, only intervening when absolutely needed. I am simply saying we should have a freer market than we do today, not that we should let every company run rampant and do whatever the heck they please. Clearly, this would be bad. ;)

Oh as for competition, I absolutely agree. That's why capitalism works so well. Competition is wonderful! That is why I don't understand all of these people who make it out to be such a horrible, demeaning, depressing thing. Competition should be encouraged from a young age, though it's not like kids should be told what failures they are if they don't always finish first. Still, healthy competition is always good! My best friend and I met in a physics class where we would try to best each other's grades. Now I'll be honest, neither one of us liked this class at all and we both were not great at it naturally. I'm a great student, he was only a mediocre to barely above average student, yet that's only because of his motivation, not his intelligence. He's always been capable of anything he really wants to do, IMO. He had no problems beating me on many quizzes in that class on his way to an easy A, which I also got, though not very easily first semester. I studied my butt off and got a 97% on the final (I needed a 96% or better), which got me an 89.7% in the class, which he rounded up to an A. Next semester we both easily had A's. Because of the competition I got going with him, I helped him do well in that class and he helped me do well, too. Competition often brings out the best in people, I think.

If you have a group of five directors who are all great friends, they may be the best friends in the world, but they still want to beat each other, whether they admit it or not. You always want to do better than your friends, no matter if you're willing to say so. You wish for their success, certainly, and you wish for your own success even more! :) I think you get a better quality of work with that type of healthy competition...

That is honestly the main reason, IMO, why communism is so ineffective -- lack of competition = lack of motivation.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
why would Microsoft ever want to produce an inferior product

That's what I've been asking myself crash, after blue screen, after hangup, after ctrl-alt-delete as well. :p

[JonathanLB]

LOL, well that is what I said with WindowsME -- I HATE Windows ME. God what a terrible mistake on their part.

I have had great success with WindowsXP, but ME was the worst ever, by far worse than 95 or 98. I just don't get why you'd make a product so far inferior to your past efforts. It's perplexing.

[JMK]

Windows ME may be the worst thing I've ever purchased. It flat out sucks, no exceptions.

[JonathanLB]

Absolutely agreed. It's a terrible product. I have no idea what they were thinking. I've never had so many problems with an operating system before and it is just pitiful.

[JMK]

My computer crashes with every program I have open. Unknown errors, kernel32 errors, these never happened when I hafd WIN95. ME is satan.

[JonathanLB]

That's right, it is the anti-christ! BURN THE WITCH! ;)

I have so far been impressed with XP. Not had really any problems at all using it on either my laptop or my desktop. It's the best operating system from Microsoft so far in my experience.

The problems I have had with this Windows ME computer, which I am using now at home (I use my XP one at college; this thing sucks), are so weird it's just hard to describe. Aside from this being the only computer I've ever owned where the hard drive totally went bad, I constantly have explorer errors on this, the DVD drive works pitifully and right now the words "And that's Neptune, his mortal enemy" are BURNED onto the DVD screen even though those words are from "Contempt," which I had in the DVD drive before I put in Life is Beautiful and before I put in 2001: A Space Odyssey, yet they won't go away until I restart and I'm right now too busy to do that.

The errors on this machine are so consistent and idiotic that I keep a removable memory card in the USB port and back up my work after everything I do because my trust for this machine is about 0.

[JMK]

That's the reason I no longer do any work on my computer at home. It too frustrating to have it shut down every 20 minutes, even I have been pretty diligent with saving the files. Microsoft really screwed the pooch with ME. There's supposed to be tons of patch files on microsoft.com, but I doubt its worth the effort to fix them.

[Sanis Prent]

XP is probably the greatest OS...ever. I can't think of anything more useful, stable, or cool. I love it. Absolutely love XP!

[JMK]

Ugh, quit rubbing it in! The more I hear that the more I feel like I need to go out and spend another 1000 dollars on a new computer!

[Jedieb]

I've run XP for awhile now and it's one of the most stable operating systems I've ever worked with. I've also been an Apple user for years. Their new operating system, OSX, is getting mixed results from many old time Mac users. I don't like it much myself.

Competition=good
Monopoly=CRAP

[imported_Marcus]

Originally posted by JMK
Ugh, quit rubbing it in! The more I hear that the more I feel like I need to go out and spend another 1000 dollars on a new computer!

Franky, if you pay 1000 dollars these tdays, your getting ripped off. The last PC I built for a cliet a week ago cost 486 in parts. Add two hours of my time and an OS (XP), you have a non monitor included total of 820 dollars - Australian. That's a AMD Duron 1.3 Gz with 256 mb, 40 GB Hdd, keyboard and mouse. It's the low end, but low end these days is frankly amazingly quick.

My borther in law got a AMD XP 2100+ for 1000 AUD. It's mind blowingly fast. That is 612 dollars USD. The Duron is probably under 500 USD. The Duron is perfect for anything other than the absolute latest games. 10 second boot time with XP. The 2100+ with a decent vid card will be a great gaming platform.

[JonathanLB]

I would agree, XP has really been great. I've had nearly no errors with my newest computer, though something I downloaded screwed up my file extensions.

I don't actually know how to fix the problem, but basically what happens is if I see a JPEG online, let's say at StarWars.com, and I try to click "save as," well it tries to save EVERYTHING as a .BMP instead and it's just incredibly annoying. Even this computer doesn't have those problems. The only way I can somehow manage to get the files to be JPEG is if I download them with a program like I would download an MPEG, where if the transfer breaks it can resume download, but that is an idiotic pain for a simple image. I'm not sure how to fix the problem though, so... I just let it be :\

[Morgan Evanar]

Try a different browser. There are 2 browsers that are better than IE, such as Mozilla or Phoenix. Opera is... broken. Interesting, but broken.

[JonathanLB]

That would be a major pain. I think there has to be another way to fix the situation, but I doubt it has anything to do with the browser really. It's just some screwed up file extension problem. I have no idea...

$1,000 for a computer would be remarkably cheap. I have never paid that little. The cheapest computer I ever got was this laptop I just bought for $1,500, which was quite a good price for a fairly powerful little machine. I didn't need it all decked out, just so long as it had DVD, ran smoothly, etc.

I paid $3,000 for my desktop back in August. 2.5 ghz, 1 gig of RAM, DVD burner, CD-RW, 19" flat screen, 120 gig hard drive, pretty awesome surround sound (weighs a lot though, lol), etc.

Good computers still cost a lot of cash, but the price for decent machines has fallen drastically. It used to be that you couldn't get a good laptop at all for less than $2,500. Now, $1,300 to $1,500 will actually get you quite a good machine for most purposes.

[Morgan Evanar]

That would be a major pain. I think there has to be another way to fix the situation, but I doubt it has anything to do with the browser really. It's just some screwed up file extension problem. I have no idea...

Why? They're both better than IE.

[JonathanLB]

Nothing is better than IE.

haha, look at the stats, 95% of people use IE, it's gotta be the best. Look at McDonalds, they sell the most hamburgers, they're the best hamburgers :lol

j/k, but seriously I like IE, wouldn't want to use anything else. I don't see why I would be inclined to go through the trouble of switching.

[Morgan Evanar]

Because its better?

95% of people are really lazy. I'd do all kinds of crazy stuff with the png image format if IE properly supported translucency.

Moz is the most standards compliant browser on the internet. Its updated frequently, and it has tabbed browsing. If you spring for Phoenix, its got a built in popup killer. Its skinable.

Phoenix is basically a trimmed up browser componet of Mozilla. Moz is a browser suite, with mail client, HTML editor etc.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Mozilla blows IE off the planet. It is a mile better

[Figrin D'an]

It's takes just a few minutes to download Mozilla, a minute to install and about 15 seconds to find the "Import Favorites" option to transfer your bookmarks. Boom. Done. Ready to go.

It's worth the little bit of time and effort.

[Morgan Evanar]

MSIE: 88.71 % (6065252)
Netscape: 5.998 % (410121)

Netscape 7 (or whatever it is) borrows the rendering core from Moz and Phoenix.

[Sigil Roland]

Originally posted by JonathanLB
Absolutely agreed. It's a terrible product. I have no idea what they were thinking. I've never had so many problems with an operating system before and it is just pitiful.

Well they were trying to prepair people to buy XP. I know I jumped ship when I did. What can I say it worked.

Now If I can only figure out how to install Linux...

[Darth Turbogeek]

Wait till the next kernel Sigil, The present Mandrake and redhat are good,but the next one will have some highly worthwihle desktop additions.

[JonathanLB]

"If you spring for Phoenix, its got a built in popup killer. Its skinable."

Umm, that's retarded. I hate pop up killers. First, they destroy what little ad revenue is left for honest Webmasters who barely make enough money to have YOU look at their content for free, and second, many respectable sites use popups as part of their content.

People always used to send me these idiotic e-mails saying there were too many popups or too many banners or whatever. Oh yeah, I run this site for your amusement people, not for the money, that's right, it's FREE to run sites online! Really! My god people are so stupid. The more people who use popup killers, the more alternative advertising will creep in and be even more annoying. You either accept the popups, or you pay the site cash for what they give you. You can't just expect a free ride and free information and free entertainment without supporting the sites and people who bring you that.

[Sanis Prent]

Then you may kindly keep your pop-ups. The rest of us, however, will be stopping that annoying, horrible solicitation.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Jonathon, shut up about popups. Unlike you, I have to PAY for my bandwidth at home and I do not appreciate websites thieving MY bandwidth with things I did not ask for. Nor do I appreciate Pop-ups loaded with tricks and trojans, nor do I appreciate popups that demand I download spyware like Gator. Nor do I appreciate the fact soem popups run scritps that spy on my machine.

The fact is, when I pay for my bandwidth, every pop up is thieving money from my pocket. I reserve the right to stop that theft with popup killing software. There is no way known I will allow such things to get near my computer

[Sejah Haversh]

I hate pop-ups. I realize their possible good intentions, but after a half-million "adult" pop-ups, I am just flat out sick of them.

If they had a good product, odds are I would ahve heard of them by now. I don't get swayed much by advertising. If I want something, I get it. Simple as that. And I aviod buying products that I've been hit with a pop-up about.

[JonathanLB]

First, no respectable Web site allows adult popups. I don't, nor do any companies I have ever worked with in the past or the present.

As for bandwidth, don't be ridiculous. It doesn't cost any money to use bandwidth, lol, my god. It costs money on a per month basis. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Next, you are stealing from any Website when you block their only ways to make money. So don't give me that crap. You wouldn't know the first thing about running a Website. Do you even have any idea, or do you realize, that us Webmaster PAY for our bandwidth too? Jesus, don't be a hypocrite. For a guy who supposedly works in technology, you know absolutely nothing about the Internet or about Web sites apparently.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Jonathon, dear oh dear. I'm sorry, but you do realise that I do know what I talk about becasue I've been running mainframes and networks since the time you would have just got out of diapers?

Firstly, you have no real control of your popups. Only the ad company like Doubleclick do. They can and do some rather sneaky things like Gator and scripting to get details of the person viewign the page they should not have access to and in some countires is illegal. Or, in some cases, take control of your surfing habits. What, you dont think it's possible? Oh, but it is. I could load this post (via my sig) with a script that would allow me to control your PC. I dont because I'm not malicious. I regard things like Gator as malicious payloads and they die.

Second, in australia, you pay for you bandwidth by the Mb. Now, as I am a heavy user, I watch my surfing. And I get annoyed when popups keep turning up and costing ME money in MY bandwidth. You, do not know as to how it works here, so I request you not commetn unless you do know.

Third, how do you think SW-Fans is free? Why is there no pop ups or ads here? Ask around. While it's not used to make money -far from it - subscriptions and user pays also can make a website earn money. Now, dont tell me they cant, I know that things like crikey.com make quite a nice bit of money. http://slashdot.org is subscriber / banner add and it pays it's way - or maybe fark.com as another popup free example (They have classifieds and ads in content)? Huge websites, no popups. They do okay. Online news is switching to subscriber. So they seem to think it works.

So, in quite simple few examples I have cut down your argument that popups are the only revenue stream.

I do have an understanding how websites work, because, unlike you, I've built and run big ones. No, not the html, the servers, the infrastructure, the underlying OS server. I very much know how to run them. Much, much, much more than you do.

So in this case, your wrong, I'm right.

[JMK]

Popups are ridiculous. They're invasions of privacy in alot of cases with their BS scripts. When one comes up on my screen I'm clicking the X button before I can even see what's being offered. Infact, I would boycott almost anything that appears on a pop up ad.

[Jedieb]

Score one for DT. I detested popups before, now DT has me positively terrified of them. O_o

[Morgan Evanar]

Arstechnica is another large website that doesn't need popups. They rely on banner ads (not so bad, they're in context) and subscription.

SWF is free because some people have been paying out of pocket to keep it that way. Popups are the absolute worst way to advertise on the web.

[ReaperFett]

I use IE, and wouldnt change it, simply because Im comfortable with it. I cant stand Netscape, but use it for Yahoo games.


And while I dislike Popups, I see them as a neccesary evil. They make more money than banners, hence giving you a better service. Providing they only appear on the front page, I dont mind them. And I pay for my ISP too.

The ones that annoy me are the ones like the IGN ones. They're like popups, but IN the webpage, meaning you cant see the actual page.

[Morgan Evanar]

Netscape blows, thats why I'm not reccomending it.

Sorry Jon, there are other, much more valid ways to generate revenue than popups.

And guess what, you can't do dick about me using a popup killer.

[JMK]

starwars.com also has the type of popups that land on the page itself and cover up the content. Very irritating.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Oh I hate those, it seems a lot of entertainment pages are using them, to advertise movies. I also despise Gator I downloaded that by mistake one time and regretted the darn thing is horrible.

[ReaperFett]

My dad relies on it. He knows its Spyware, but his work firewall deflects it :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Mozilla's form manager is a great replacement for Gator.

[Dutchy]

Today the Euro reached a new highpoint: $1,1951 dollar.

[JediBoricua]

Really this isn't that good for Europe right now.

Wary americans, with the war and all, tend to lower their travel abroad. Add a higher euro, and that's all the incentive americans have for staying home and visiting their own country, or they could come to my country, which is their own country, only different, wait I'm confused...anyway.

I've read a couple of articles on how many restaurants and tourist attractions have a lot less american tourists than before. One article made specific emphasis on restaurants, and how waiters miss the big tipping americans (europans don't tend to tip, right?).

And worse, countries that used to buy products from Europe will now look to ones made in the US, because they are now cheaper. Remember that even if the euro has higher value than the dollar, the dollar still is the international coin, and thus all coins are measured against it.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I've read a couple of articles on how many restaurants and tourist attractions have a lot less american tourists than before.

These wouldn't happen to be French restaurants and tourist attractions would they? ;)


(europans don't tend to tip, right?)

Everyone I know does, but only a certain %

[JediBoricua]

No it was in Italy, who has troops in Iraq if that is what your implying :p.

About european tipping, maybe it's just the spanish. I have some spanish friends that when we go out to eat, I have to force them to tip.

[Charley]

The issue with Euro values is that there tends to be an issue in reporting value when you introduce assets. It doesn't really compare exactly, but in the securities market, if a company issues first run stock, then it has to get its book value of equity appraised, which is then transplanted onto the market. Trouble is, this effect, for reasons that are largely unknown, inflates entry values. Its the IPO inflated value phenomenon, and one reason why IPO's are so profitable.

As I said, it doesn't directly correlate to the currency market, but its a good example. You've got all these new member states and those applying which are adding their GDP toward the Euro's value. The methods of approximation aren't the same as market forces in the currency market, so there will be a discrepancy. Unlike the IPO effect, which lasts days, there's no telling how long such an effect in currencies will last.

This bubble is in a dangerous position to be popped, especially in financial centers such as Frankfurt, where unprecedented funding operations are going on in order to strengthen the underdeveloped economies in the east. This means loans. RISKY loans. Banks such as Deutsche Bank are going to have to be very careful in speculating their loan-loss ratios, or they will lose their capital structure in the blink of an eye.

Very dangerous waters ahead, IMO.

[Master Yoghurt]

As far as I can see, its the dollar which is on a low rather than the euro being on a high. A few months ago 1 dollar was worth 7 norwegian kroner, now its more like 6.8

What does this mean? For the Americans, it means an increasingly competitive export industry, and imported goods become more expensive. Less americans traveling abroad but more foreigners traveling to the US. If this is a continuing state, you are likely to see some noticable price inflation. Interest rates will likely not be lowered for some time now, which in the long run may lead to higher percentages of unemployment..

This is not good news for American economy at all

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by JediBoricua
About european tipping, maybe it's just the spanish.

No, actually I think it's the Du... umm... never mind. :p

[AmazonBabe]

Hmmm... I dunno. I was under the impression that the economy was actually starting to come back up from it's slump.

A year ago, I was desperately looking for work. And then about 4 months ago, I had about 4 jjob offers slammed into my face all at once. And as it is, the company I work at (Raytheon) is desperate to hire some ungodly number of new employees, preferably right out of the universities... and not just for small positions, but also for large ones, like mamangers, supervisros, and I heard there are even a few VP positions open.

And it's not just Raytheon. I've been hearing the same story from various companies, large and small.

But then again, I'm not one that pays much attention to the stock market or politics or what have you. All I'm interested in is winning the lottery, buying my own island, and creating my own country: Strongbadia!... oh wait, that's already taken. Hmmm... I'll think of another name... :p

[Charley]

Economic indicators are showing signs of recovery. The issue at hand is response lag. Rates have begun to increase since june, and there are some employment-related ratios that show favorable turnouts. The recession has ended a while ago. Recovery is being mapped out as we speak.

[JediBoricua]

Charley speaks the truth.

Last trimester the economy grew by leaps and bounds (7 something percent), now all we have to see if that was just a hiccup, or if it's a sustenaible recovery.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Today the Euro reached a new highpoint: $1,1951 dollar.

Today it crossed the $1.20 mark.

[Darth Viscera]

Originally posted by JediBoricua
Charley speaks the truth.

Last semester the economy grew by leaps and bounds (7 something percent), now all we have to see if that was just a hiccup, or if it's a sustenaible recovery.

8.2% :) So that means the GDP increases from 10.4 trillion to 11.25 trillion, if I understand it right.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Dutchy
Today it crossed the $1.20 mark.

And today the $1.25 mark.

[ReaperFett]

Originally posted by JediBoricua
(europans don't tend to tip, right?).
They do, although mandatory tipping (IE, a certain amount is added to your bill) is a dislike for many. Most would tip a good meal, a large number would tip any meal.

[Dutchy]

It's usually a matter of rounding the amount to an convenient number when you're with a group of people. Let's say you have to pay 46.70 euros and you're with 5 people. Then everyone throws in 10 and the tip is 5 x 10 = 50 - 46.70 = 3.30 euros.

Or something similar. Bottom line: the rounding makes the tip.

[JMK]

Today the Euro reportedly reached 1.28 and the Canadian dollar hit just over .78. That's as high as it's been in years as far as I can remember. What's going on with the U.S. dollar? Is it's status as a safe haven declining? Are investors losing faith in it?

[ReaperFett]

1.80 to the pound. So to order DVDs, I now dont work the price out by 2/3, I do it be 1/2 roughly. That's a big change.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by JMK
Today the Euro reportedly reached 1.28 and the Canadian dollar hit just over .78. That's as high as it's been in years as far as I can remember. What's going on with the U.S. dollar? Is it's status as a safe haven declining? Are investors losing faith in it?


Lag factor, as mentioned previously.

[JediBoricua]

As I stated earlier, a cheaper dollar is not necesarilly a bad thing for the US.

Al least for us (Puerto Rico), it has been great. WE have gotten twice more european tourist this high season, than last year. Our hotels are at 95% capacity 'till March.

Really people, this is just momentary. Twenty years from now the Euro could be the intl. coin, but not now. The EU is still too fractured, with Germany and France bickering about the new members, etc, to be the economic power that topples the US. As stated earlier as long as the dollar is the intl. mean of all coins, the US is at an advantage.