Jonathan

[JMK]

That's perfect IMO. I agree, it should be a blunt PM telling him exactly what will happen if he doesn't change his demeanor around here. I'd send it exactly as is. Nice work Eve. :)

[Sanis Prent]

My gripes are with the government and military, Fett. In a jestful manner, I may take a jab at the culture, but those are always facetious. My grievances with the government are serious though.

[ReaperFett]

But it doesnt look like that. It looks like you just dislike the French. The only difference is Jon said it straight out.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think Charlie does, he never uses the word hate or anything of that nature, not liking the govt. is one thing, and I don't completely disagree with you there, I am no big supporting of Chirac either.

[ReaperFett]

As an aside btw, at TF.N they are arguing about France-bashing Mods too. COmmon concensus is that it looks like because a Mod does it, everyone else can. Just bare that in mind.

[imported_Eve]

So... about Jon... shall we wait until he makes his next remark and deliver?

[JMK]

Well he got off another huge France blast, he pretty much stated again that he doesn't care who he offends, France is a "piece of you know what". I say deliver it.

[imported_Eve]

Okay message sent. From your replies, it seemed you were all in agreement on the message, so I went ahead with it.

Fett: I changed "Notice to Ban" to "Notice".

We'll see if he replies.

[CMJ]

Oh I'm sure you'll get a reply.

[ReaperFett]

"Notice" is perfect.

[Jedi Master Carr]

YeahI am sure you will let us know what he says.

[imported_Eve]

His response:

This sounds like every other incredibly inaccurate message I've received without reason or cause, no offense to you personally of course. First, I never state any opinions as facts. That is impossible to do without explictly saying it. I have never said, "It's a fact that so and so is a great movie." That has just never happened. So that's wrong.

I have never become "hateful," either, though I have been flamed by other members numerous times WITHOUT the actions of moderators or administrators such as yourself even attempting to do anything about it.

If any of my posts piss people off, then perhaps it is good they feel that way. It's a reaction, which is better than nothing at all. Forums should be about inciting reactions and making people think or making them become involved in the discussions. If they feel passionately they can respond to the posts as I always do. I have rarely ever, except in defense, attacked anyone on that forum as they have attacked me. I have made comments and opinions about every issue under the sun but those have never been directed at any person, yet in return I have received very rude remarks where the staff either looked the other way or chose only to notice what I said back. In any event, it is poor leadership to carry a bias like that.

I have never violated the stated rule that you list in this PM. Not once have I posted something obscene, for instance, not once have I posted something that I meant as hateful. How other people take something is not honestly my problem. Some people saw Pulp Fiction as advocating violence. Does that mean Tarantino is guilty of advocating violence because a LOT of people say he is? Hell no it doesn't. That wasn't the intention of the film and most people are able to appreciate that. The vocal opinions of a few people are irrelevant, in both cases. Now it would be one thing if I made topics like "I hate (so and so group)," that would be terrible, but that's not the reality. If I make any type of comment that is negative, like against the French -- and I hate the French like every other true American should right now -- then it's only related to the topic as a side comment.

I always have tact when posting, so your suggestion is noted only so far as me saying that everyone should have tact in posting. What I won't do, however, is tame my posts for people who can't handle opinions or debate or can't handle the truth, as the case may be sometimes. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I never make rash and shallow posts, moving on to another point. My posts are typically extremely long, so they are not shallow by any means. They are not rash because I choose to respond, so if I choose to respond it means I've thought about what I'm going to say. I don't deny someone may think they're rash, but I also don't deny there are people who still think the world is flat, so there's little I can do about people misinterpreting reality. I don't see how that problem can ever be solved.

Now what the real problem with the forum is here you are not discussing, at least as far as I can see. The real problem is people who are incredibly biased in posting whenever I respond, yet I hold no malice or ill will towards them. I have said again and again that I don't hate anyone on the forum, but how about that incident with Diego a week back? Those were blatantly trolling, offensive, personal posts that were not only uncalled for but entirely inaccurate. My writing is excellent and unquestionably sophisticated (off forums, we are talking about here), so for Diego to launch personal attacks like that was, well, silly and amusing for starters, but ultimately inappropriate even as much as it may have been funny to me. I saw no actions taken by the SWFans.net staff in solving that problem. He was not sent a warning to my knowledge and nobody even mentioned it besides closing the thread, when no comments were made suggesting he refrain from such actions in the future.

There are two sides to these issues and if you guys (this is hardly your fault as you just came aboard) continue to ignore them, I don't see how you expect to have a good community of posters whatsoever.

Also, there is nobody who has avoided the box office forum because of my posts. That was a nice fabrication of reality, and funny even, but simply untrue. I know the main posters on that forum and there are none who have mysteriously gone missing and not posted there. If there are a few I've barely heard of, well, then why would that matter anyway? They could be gone for any number of reasons if they used to post only barely, and I have seen nobody like that, besides. The poster number and group has not changed.

I think you guys seem to be associating controversy with somehow mean-spirited posting, which is just not accurate.

I've gotten the short end of the stick (to use a cliche) on a lot of issues lately that I find funny, but disturbing. My take on humor is not just acceptable, but common. Tarantino (I have used his name before, but this seemed appropriate) was mentioning in an interview on the Charlie Rose show (Disc 2 DVD of Pulp Fiction) that ANY event or any situation can and even SHOULD be joked about, and I absolutely agree. Everything should be joked about. Nothing is out of bounds so long as the joke is funny. This politically correct idea that you shouldn't joke about race, shouldn't joke about political beliefs, can't joke about war, can't joke about anyone getting hurt, can't joke about people who are different, that's all a load of rubbish and really limits the human capacity to see the good and the funny in any situation, which is a shame.

I'd also like to mention something else, however, just because you seem to have this idea I am totally unwilling to try to post positively on the forum. Now I am a very busy man, extremely busy, and let me assure you that I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't like the people and the community and care about their well-being. I have made many efforts to fix various situations and amend problems when they arose. I have even tried to forget and forgive people when they flamed me and tried to move on in a humorous way so that perhaps such broken bridges could be fixed.

Now ultimately, though, it's impossible to force agreement and it would be wrong to do so. I mean, it would not be right to expect people to agree with me and be angry when they do not. If they choose to dislike me for my opinions, then I guess that's fine because it only serves to demonstrate their lack of maturity. We are all more or less adults, posting about various issues, and our opinions on these issues should not define who we decide to respect and who we decide to dislike. Every person deserves respect for their opinions, but you're not seeing the situation how it really is if you think that I'm actually afforded that respect. I post on the forum often times with the knowledge that whatever I say will be attacked, but what other people say, no matter if it's the same thing, even, will slide right by without notice.

I will gladly take a few days off the forum, responding to that request of yours, and frankly I'm not sure I'd want to post there myself if I'm going to get negative messages like this that do not serve to advance the forum and do not reflect the truth. I have added greatly to the forum not only with my film knowledge, but in what exactly you seem to think is negative, which is the controversy and great discussions that begin or continue with my comments. I never make posts with the intention of starting a huge messy argument, but I always hope to incite some good debate and discussion.

All this seems off the point. I just think it's ridiculous I'd be getting a message like this without having done anything whatsoever to deserve these comments. I could not be a more reasonable and rational poster on this forum and if you or any other staff member has a problem with what I say, perhaps you should not hide behind your nifty technological powers and threats, but rather debate in the threat like normal posters and lay your opinions out as I do mine.

-Jonathan L. Bowen

[TheHolo.Net]

This section completely cotradicts his first paragraph. :lol
Also, there is nobody who has avoided the box office forum because of my posts. That was a nice fabrication of reality, and funny even, but simply untrue. I know the main posters on that forum and there are none who have mysteriously gone missing and not posted there. If there are a few I've barely heard of, well, then why would that matter anyway? They could be gone for any number of reasons if they used to post only barely, and I have seen nobody like that, besides. The poster number and group has not changed.He seems to state that as a fact and its one that he cannot know for certain.

Jon = powderkeg, waiting to blow.

[imported_Eve]

I responded:


Thank you for your response. It has been noted, but the warning remains.

I think it useless and unprofessional for us to argue with him. That could go on forever. Unfortunatley, he thinks he has done nothing wrong, despite contradicting himself in certain areas of his reply.

I guess we'll see what happens. Although I don't have hope for anything.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well should we vote :p I don't think he will change he won't listen to nobody and he will keep acting the way he has, so I don't what other option there is. We either get it over with or wait until he does something again.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Eve
I think it useless and unprofessional for us to argue with him. That could go on forever. Unfortunatley, he thinks he has done nothing wrong, despite contradicting himself in certain areas of his reply.

I guess we'll see what happens. Although I don't have hope for anything. Agreed. I did not intend my reply as an argument to be given to him. I just found it very funny how blatantly he contradicted himself.

[Jedi Master Carr]

You must have posted before I did, well I think we should wait then, the next time he does something I think thats it.

[imported_Eve]

I wasn't saying anything about your reply. I mean my initial response was to argue with him - point out his reply's flaws. I also thought he may bring it up to his BO forums buddies, and arguments may result.

He'll just keep on about it.

[TheHolo.Net]

He has BO forums buddies? :lol

Sorry about being silly regarding a serious issue, but I do fully agree with your assesments and decisions. :)

[JMK]

Is anyone really surprised he did this? Of course he wasn't going to admit to anything.
Then he calls us all out and wants us to join him in posting hateful messages? C'mon, this kid has lost it. He's so incredibly blind. It doesn't matter who tells him, or how many people take offense to his posts, it will always be THEIR problem. I'm sorry, but the way he bashed France and French people is not a joke. Calling them worthless cannot be taken as a joke in any context.

He's going to continue to be Jonathan L. Bowen until we choose to stop him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not really :p The only person he seems to like is CMJ. He used to have a friend that came here FoxDVD but I haven't seen him around in ages.

[TheHolo.Net]

FoxDVD was not much of a friend to have. He was single handedly responsible for ruining a GJO ezboard because he was an <smallfont color=#997583>-Censored-</smallfont>.

EDIT: Goes to disable censor in this forum.

[TheHolo.Net]

We should now be able to cuss like fuckin sailors here if we so wish. Being a private forum I have no issues with occasional profanity.

EDIT: Censor/disabled test passed.

[imported_Eve]

Then it looks like we're waiting for him to get himself banned eh?

I got $100 bucks that says he'll do it within a week. I'd say 24 hours, but he said he was going to stay away for a couple days.

I wish he'd go ask some people what they think of him. I mean they say it all the time in post.

[TheHolo.Net]

I'm not taking that bet because I agree. He won't last.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He did that last time so I am not surprised. I have heard about FoxDVD David mentioned him and I new he was trouble luckily he doesn't come around here.

[TheHolo.Net]

BTW: When the time comes for his banning, I will handle informaing him, seeing that he has not heard from me yet on any of these matters, and I typically handle such things.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That works for me

[imported_Eve]

Another reply from Jon:

It is not a problem. I won't be posting here for a while anyway, so I have banned myself.

Although I would contend that I add a great deal to the forum and always have, so such a loss is the forums and brought upon by comments that do not reflect the majority opinion. Most people on the forum feel that my comments, however controversial, keep the forum lively and would rather have me there than not.

I, however, would rather not waste my time if I am going to be patronized -- I'm an adult, and a professional, and a busy man, I don't need to be chastized.

Have a nice day and good luck as admin. You will do fine.

-Jonathan L. Bowen

[TheHolo.Net]

:lol

Now he's telling us what "most people" think. Will his desire to hear himself speak and pat himself on the back ever show any limits? :lol

EDIT: I think if he decides to "sass" a staff member again with such replies that his banning should probably happen forthwith so he can go on and devote his precious time to other endeavors.

Its quite obvious he has zero respect for others besides himself, that is something no amount of warnings or talks will ever change.

He will continue to do nothing but make our jobs difficult until and unless we are rid of him.

[ReaperFett]

Now what the real problem with the forum is here you are not discussing, at least as far as I can see. The real problem is people who are incredibly biased in posting whenever I respond,
I said that. Nice to see it notices it too :)

[TheHolo.Net]

It has been completely his own fault that people respond that way. His attitude is responsible. The typical person respects humility and open mindedness, but Jon displays neither of these attributes.....ever.

[ReaperFett]

Part true, but the problem is people with similar attitudes appear.

[JMK]

He will continue to do nothing but make our jobs difficult until and unless we are rid of him.I agree Mr. Swfans. He's said he won't change. He refuses to open his eyes. A self-imposed ban will last no longer than 48 hours as he will be back to place his oscar picks, then he will be back in the fray. I'm surprised he hasn't announced his second self-bannage.

[TheHolo.Net]

Part true, but the problem is people with similar attitudes appear.
That goes back to the ever famous "Golden Rule" and a reversal of it.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

People see his total disregard of their thoughts and opinions, often times coupled with insults of their intelligence, and as such treat him the same.

[JMK]

Correct. No one else states their opinions as fact, no one else is bashed for having a different opinion. Other posters around here don't treat each other like Jon is treated because ONLY Jon makes people that angry. Everything that has happened to him has happened because he asked for it by being a condescending prick.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Most people on the forum feel that my comments, however controversial, keep the forum lively and would rather have me there than not.

Should we make a poll and see who would rather have him here? ;)

IMO, if Jon is removed, then the "lively controversy" will die down to a comfortable murmur. Didn't we lose FILMKR something or other because of Jon?

Right now we have our hands full with the war controversy. We don't need Jon entering threads that are already a boiling point and saying something that creates WWIII.

The Time for Diplomacy is Over! I say we give him a 48 hour warning to evacuate the forums, before we bom- I mean, Ban him.

[TheHolo.Net]

If we do that then we are just asking to get his "high horse sass" reply in return. Warning time is over, action time is at hand, and will come swiftly if warranted.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was totally joking about the poll. :)

[TheHolo.Net]

I said nothing about the poll, just the "warning". ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, I was joking about that too. :p

[TheHolo.Net]

^_^;

K

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Let's say, "We're giving you a 48 hour warning, starting two days ago."

;)

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Let's say, "We're giving you a 48 hour warning, starting two days ago."

;) oo oo oo joke right? :lol

Is proud of himself for recognizing it this time

[ReaperFett]

Other posters around here don't treat each other like Jon is treated because ONLY Jon makes people that angry.
No, they just ignore me because they've had enough of me :)

[imported_Eve]

Guys/Gals - we gave him a warning. We said if he does it AGAIN, he gets banned. We have to wait for it, or we just look stupid. Don't worry, he'll do something again. I have no doubt. We'll give him a chance to make right. If he doesn't, he goes bye-bye.

I don't think Jon is the only rude-ass and cocky mo-fo in the BO forums either. He is the most horribly arrogant, IMO, but it's not consistent to not deal with other people too, at least on some level. But that's for the BO mods to decide.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

Isn't it nice too that Jon decided to leave a message after JMK left that must read at the top of the forum :)

[Sanis Prent]

We need to have a "serious consequences" phrase in the warning ;)...so we can give him one more, one more, one more, one more chance.

[imported_Eve]

Have you given him a warning before where you told him he'd be banned if he didn't stop? If so, that's the staff's failure. If not, this is the first ultimatum he's received, and I'm sure we'd carry out the banning.

[Sanis Prent]

I'm pretty sure there have been other warnings in the past. :\

[CMJ]

No warnings per se. We tried to be reasonable with him. He is usually one that will not respond to threats.

This time however I think he'll be sorta content to just lurk for a few days.

Anyways, he sent me this PM. The first 2 paragraphs were more personal in nature, but then he sent me his feelings about all of this. It's basically what he sent Eve, but I figured I'd share nonetheless.



Hey, I think my review for The Quiet American should be on the site, but yeah, I saw it quite some time ago, I mean not forever ago, but back when it came out in Portland on its first weekend. I want to say later January?

I had been looking forward to seeing it for some time.

I am doing an incredible amount of writing this week to catch up on reviews for the site, then I have to edit about 150 pages of text to add to the site on Friday. At least, I dang better get it all up there on Friday before I leave for spring break and Mexico! I'm looking forward to getting this term over with in the next few days.

I'm not going to post on this forum for a few days while I do all of this work, but it's not just because of work. I am rather tired of having my posts misunderstood constantly and people not being able to handle tough stances. I say nothing that is that big of a deal, but people prefer posters who are wishy-washy and can't hold to their opinions, never saying anything definite. Thus when I'm willing to say something definite, i.e. I hate the French right now and I think they should all jump off a tall cliff, then it becomes a big deal when in reality everyone should be agreeing with me. Hell I've heard way worse things from people on AOL IM. The various people I know will say things I won't even repeat, lol.

I do not find the experience of posting on SWFans.net that fun when people single me out and ignore any flames directed at me. I think it's unfair, to be honest, and I'm never unfair with people here. Even the people who have said incredibly rude things to me and acted inappropriately, I honestly forget about that soon after and don't hold those types of grudges when posting in new threads. I only wish other posters could be the same way.

With 90% of the problems on this forum, though, it is simple misunderstanding. I make a lot of posts, most are understood fine, a few of them are not. I cannot help that some people misunderstand the intentions of what I write any more than a director, like Tarantino, can help that some people think his work is all about violence and promotes such acts. Some people thrive on acceptance and diplomacy and trying to be agreeable with everyone. Others, and I think the more successful and influential people, thrive on controversy and opposition. That's what breeds healthy discussion, after all.

Anyhow, I have a tendency to get baited by the people here who are looking for trouble, then I get in trouble and not them as the end result. That's just getting old. I know what I should do. I should delete this forum from my favorites and never post again. I really should and I'm not sure why I don't except to say that it is somehow habbit to post here and that I don't post on other forums, so sometimes like having one forum to post on at least. I know that technically this is a waste of my time and I shouldn't bother, but there are a few good people on the forum and I'd hate to think what it would be like without my beautiful debates.

On the other hand, joking aside, I really should leave. It's evident that peoples' biases against me right now make my posting unpleasant and no fun, so I'm an idiot to stay. It must mean I like idiotic comments being directed at me and that I like the abuse I receive, but I don't. I'm not sure what the solution is except to walk away and either not return or return only at such a point as a different group of posters (or a different mix) is on the forum. Who knows.

Whenever I state my opinions about something on this forum, I get blasted for it, that's all I know -- and to make excuses about that is unacceptable. Saying, "Well maybe you shouldn't call Casablanca a great film because you will be asking for a flame from someone who doesn't like it" is just ridiculous. I cannot help that people disagree with what I say sometimes, and agree others, but they need to be held accountable for their comments against me. I make a post discussing how I view movies differently since I became a reviewer, for instance, and let's say I get a response saying I'm acting elitist and being "stupid" about movies and that I am a lousy critic and don't truly understand how movies should be seen. That's a classic example that has happened before. Now where did I go wrong? I only had the kindness and generosity to give an opinion to the forum from my experience that was deeply personal and then I receive an attack on the way I review movies, yet I was only trying to add to the discussion. Now I fight back, perhaps, and we get ourselves a little flame war, thread gets closed, and it's ANOTHER incident of that damn Jonathan creating problems for everyone and being negative and ruining the forum. Somehow that is the perception that persists, yet if you look at the reality, *I* am the victim in most of these cases and all I try to do is nicely offer some of my time to talk about these issues, especially movies, and I get shot down because a few people don't like me, apparently.

I find it depressing and if I was smart at all, I would choose not to post anymore. Let's see how smart I am now, I suppose. Hopefully I'll be smart enough to know what to do.

[ReaperFett]

I honestly forget about that soon after and don't hold those types of grudges when posting in new threads. I only wish other posters could be the same way.
Least he still gets replies :)


Anyhow, I have a tendency to get baited by the people here who are looking for trouble, then I get in trouble and not them as the end result
I've been watching this. It's not as bad as it was.



If any of you reply to him BTW, can you just clarify the warning in the war thread about French comments was NOT just directed at him? I didnt state that clearly enough.

[JMK]

Thus when I'm willing to say something definite, i.e. I hate the French right now and I think they should all jump off a tall cliff, then it becomes a big deal when in reality everyone should be agreeing with me.

What? We should all join in with his bashing of other cultures that he doesn't find courageous? Don't look now, but he's the firstt person to say he wouldn't join the military.

[ReaperFett]

Least he's honest about it :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well he still doesn't get, IMO. Also I didn't just call Jon out I also called Lebron out who was saying the same thing about France.

[JMK]

Did anyone catch how long his 2nd self-imposed banning lasted?

[Taylor Millard]

I actually counted this time...24 and a half.

[ReaperFett]

Be fair though, he was as good as called out.

[JMK]

Granted, but why ban yourself if you're going to still hang around? It's not like he only responded to Eb's comment. He's in another thread as well. 24 and half hours? Hell I've gone longer than that and I've never banned myself.

[ReaperFett]

He said himself hed be lurking though.

[CMJ]

Eb baiting him was such a cruel move. He KNEW Bowen would come back.

The countdown to ban Jonathan has commenced. :p

[ReaperFett]

So how can you blame Jon, when Eb did it deliberately?

[CMJ]

I don't blame Jonathan for his initial stuff. But look at his more recent rants. He's asking for it...

If you see I voiced my displeasure with Eb in the thread.

[Sanis Prent]

LETS ROLL!

[ReaperFett]

Opinion........flame


One is Jon, one is everyone else. And just so you all know, one Im going to start deleting, because Im really getting sick of it.

[JMK]

One is Jon, one is everyone else. And just so you all know, one Im going to start deleting, because Im really getting sick of it.

Could you elaborate please? I have no clue what that meant. :lol

I know Jon said he wasn't going to post but rather hang around and read, but why bother? We knew, and he probably did too, that he would not be able to stay quiet for long. Granted Eb baited him, and that was wrong, but he's gone off since then. Besides, even if Eb baited him, wouldn't an extremely busy man not bother replying to that? Wouldn't a more mature person have ignored that compleltely? I'm not excusing what Eb did, but Jon didn't have to reply.

[ReaperFett]

Im getting sick of people flaming. Not making a comment EXCEPT for a flame. Jon may have daft opinions, but that is all they are.

[Taylor Millard]

Well Jon needs to just shut up.

But Eb shoulda kept his mouth shut also.

[ReaperFett]

And all the people flaming need to as well. Cant win, eh?

[Sanis Prent]

:grumble

<img src=http://www.panic.hopto.org/swf/charley/strangelove.jpg>

[Shawn]

Although I would contend that I add a great deal to the forum and always have, so such a loss is the forums and brought upon by comments that do not reflect the majority opinion. Most people on the forum feel that my comments, however controversial, keep the forum lively and would rather have me there than not.I cannot even fathom how anyone can be so full of themselves.

[imported_Eve]

I agree with Fett. Those threads are filled with insults, and Jon isn't the only one. When you read it, it just pisses you off. It makes you want to respond the same way. Anger feeds anger there.

I've had it with Jon. His comments about women needing to stay home with kids just pissed me off. I'd spit in his face if I ever had the misfortune of seeing him. He needs to go. Here he is doing what he told him not to do.

I move to ban.

[Sanis Prent]

LETS ROLL!

[imported_Eve]

Ya know, there is having an opinion, and there is being out-right rude. His audacity(sp) is stunning.

You say: I am not for war.

I say: I am.

He says: You're a woman; you can never make any important decisions; and French people are stupid; haha; and if you don't like Star Wars more than Fried Green Tomatoes you're diseased; haha; you're poor and therefore a dumb jock.

Gah. I'm being extreme, but you get the "haha" don't you?

[TheHolo.Net]

I am for banning.

It is ludricuos to try and make a topic about the war all about him, which is exactly what his last few posts =have been.

Come on, eight plus paragraphs in defense of himself, nope, eight plus paragraphs of him kissing his own ass and refusing to believe there are others that act any differently than he believes.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ban. Please.

[Taylor Millard]

Get rid of him. But also tell those who don't like him to shut up and not speak 'bout it.

I don't want any "Well it's about time." posts.

[Shawn]

^ Seconded.

[Jedi Master Carr]

His posts have been awfull lately, I am for it.

[Sanis Prent]

*insert Rumsfeld line here*

:thumbup

[JMK]

Load the torpedo in tube #1. I'm all for it.

[CMJ]

I can't believe I'm saying this...but I don't agree with the vote to ban. I'm sure this sounds strange coming from a guy who has wanted him banned on several occassions, but right now...I just don't feel it. You guys don't need my vote, it doesn't have to be unaniomous.

Saying all that, I won't be sad to see him go.

[Taylor Millard]

mmkay why don't you want him gone at this point CMJ?

I'm curious is all.

[ReaperFett]

Charley, would you shut up with all the war comments? Actually put points forward.



So, you guys want to ban him because Eb goaded him out, and then he carried on posting his OPINIONS? CHarley linked to pictures of dead people, and noone so much as batted an eyelid.

[JMK]

I still haven't changed my mind to ban from the "French people are WORTHLESS" post because as of yet no one has given me a reason as to why that was ok. He can have whatever opinion he wants, but that IS disgusting.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Charley, would you shut up with all the war comments? Actually put points forward.



So, you guys want to ban him because Eb goaded him out, and then he carried on posting his OPINIONS? CHarley linked to pictures of dead people, and noone so much as batted an eyelid. His comments went way above and beyond being "called out by JediEb". He offends far too many people in his worthless ramblings to be given any slack. He has no respect for others just far too much ego and as such has been "being talked to" by staff members since shortly after this board opened.

Dave had many a talk with him in the past, and other mods and admins have also tried to talk some sense into him. Simply put, its not happening, its just going to continue to get worse, and its his fault, not the fault of those reacting to two plus years of his BS.

[CMJ]

Two? Try nearly four. :lol

[Taylor Millard]

So we ban him, explain the reasons, and make sure we get no "Hallelujah" or "Ding dong...the witch is dead" posts.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah lets not spread this around I am sure it will get out though but lets not have people having partying threads, I can think of few posters who would ;)

[Taylor Millard]

*cough*Eb*cough*

[Shawn]

Do you wish to notify him before the banning? Or vice-versa?

[Taylor Millard]

I would just make it clear, the staff wants no comments about how 'relieved' they are to see him go.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Me and CMJ can handle him we talk to him the most, unless somebody else would like to warn him.

[ReaperFett]

Can we threaten people to not make comments please? Actually make it something serious rather than "Or we'll be very upset"

[Jedi Master Carr]

We can, who else do you think might say something other than Jedieb? I can't think of anybody else, I know there are plenty of people who don't like him but not sure if any of them will saying anything, actually Jedieb I don't think will either really he might snicker to us on IM or something but I don't think he would say anything here.

[ReaperFett]

Marcus, Eb, Dutchy, Marcus (Double the chance:))

[Taylor Millard]

This might be too harsh but....

First time...warning

Second time 24 hour spank

3rd time- we talk ban from Box Office'

might be too harsh but just an idea

[ReaperFett]

Wouldnt say that's harsh at all. Lenient maybe.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Wait, are we talking for people who will rejoice at him being banned, or is that a plan of action for banning Jon? o_O

[ReaperFett]

People who rejoice :)

[Shawn]

JMC: How were you planning on talking to him? Over AIM?

[Jedi Master Carr]

On MSN I talk to him occasionally usually about sports and stuff. Me or CMJ could do it. Not sure about Dutchy and Marcus, do we need to tell people that we are banning him? I am not sure if we should do that or not, we could always wait until somebody says something, tough call there.

[Taylor Millard]

Access his account...

Make a post saying he's leaving and not coming back...

Then ban it.

Mm...nah...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah that would be a bad idea. :)

[Taylor Millard]

Yes I know...Lack of sleep bringing forth terrible ideas

[ReaperFett]

It'd be like how they got rid of Poochie in THe Simpsons :)

[Shawn]

I think it would be better to do the actual banning before telling him. Otherwise, he might make posts like "I'm getting banned because no one likes my brilliant insights and opinions, haha"

[JMK]

I agree with that. The problem being is that he is in Mexico right now and wouldn't be alerted to it until late this week, if memory serves...ah...who cares.

[imported_Eve]

Better to act sooner then later, cause then they always ask why we waited so long.

Anyway, I though Ogre said he wanted to do the final thing.

[Taylor Millard]

Well let's do it and get it over with

[Shawn]

hmm... it would be strange to do it while he's not even here. But I'm not willing to wait a week or so and have it not get done at all; I'm very opposed to dilly-dallying. So I'm going to go ahead and do it.

I believe Ogre said that he wanted to be the one to discuss the banning with him, since he hasn't had previous relations with him. If he still wishes to do so, he can.

I'm not 100% sure that it's a good idea to ban him while he's not here. But I'm going to classify this one as "Preventative Measures". If it's really going to cause a headache, you can direct him or any other complainers to me.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't see a problem there Jon will be the only one to complain, CMJ you will be getting some email from him I bet because Jon seems to like him the best.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

What!? A pre-emptive strike against a hostile natio- poster? Do we have proof!?

Where is France to save us from tyranny?!

(this post was entirely a joke)

(wait this part isn't:

We've waited far too long already, although I also think it might be better to wait until he's actually back. But then again, if we wait we'll lose our momentum and it may never get done.

[Taylor Millard]

:lol :lol

Yeah I don't think we have anyone t'really play France right now.

[Shawn]

Yeah, there was a bit of mockery in my post when I used that term. :p

The way I see it, there's not a doubt in my mind that he WILL make more trollish, insulting and vulgar posts once he gets back. He's been talked to about it several times in the past and not even made the slightest effort to change his ways.

So I chose to do it now and deal with the headaches rather than waiting 'till he gets back... at which point we'd probably have just gone "Ah, let's wait until he acts up again before banning him".

He's had enough chances.

[JMK]

So as of now JLB is history?

[Shawn]

Correct.

[JMK]

So now you wait for him to get back and PM you with his outrage?
And as for the other members, we let them figure out the banning for themselves?

[Shawn]

That's basically what I had in mind. I'll leave it up to the BO mods if you want to make an official announcement.

He won't be able to use the PM service when he gets back. I'll compose an e-mail and send it his way.

[Shawn]

Ok, this is the e-mail I just sent him:

--

Notification of Banning - SWFans.net Forums

This is to let you know that you have banned from the SWFans.net forums. This is not a matter taken lightly, and has been discussed at length with the entire staff. Your trollish, vulgar and insulting comments have stepped clear past the acceptable posting guidelines. Numerous moderators have discussed this issue with you in the past, and there has been no visible change in your behaviour.

If you wish discuss the matter, you may do so by contacting me directly, via either this e-mail address (Dark_God@DeadlySins.co.uk) or AIM (s/n: Lord Nupraptor). Be aware, however, that the issue is not up for debate: The banning will not be repealed.

On behalf of the SWFans.net staff, I wish you luck with your endeavors.

Sincerely,
Shawn

[ReaperFett]

I say we just dont say.

[JMK]

I agree, it will just open the door for unwanted "finally" and "good riddance" comments. Once someone asks we can answer and close the thread. ;)

[Taylor Millard]

Yup. I agree

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree Kyle no point in getting into that headache.

[Sanis Prent]

So as long as we keep our "Finally" and "Good Riddance" comments in here, we're all cool? :)

[Taylor Millard]

I think someone wants t'say something :lol

[JMK]

C'mon Sanis, tell us how you REALLY feel! :lol

[Sanis Prent]

<font size=40>SWEET JESUS, THANK YOU!!!</font>

[Taylor Millard]

Gee and I thought there'd be more lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL

[CMJ]

I think Charley put on Handel's "Messiah". ;)

[ReaperFett]

Eww.. Visc is canadian = french = eww
Lebron said that. You let him off once, he just carries on.

[JMK]

I JUST read that when I got home. I've officially taken offense. No different than what Jon said IMO. Except I'm not going to say anything to him because if I do I'm going to get myself banned in the process. It's a little too personal for my liking so I'd prefer to hold my tongue.

[Shawn]

I just thought of something: Have a look at the war thread. Look at Jon's posts. Check out his CT.

...

Someone is going to notice that eventually.

[JMK]

His CT?

[Shawn]

Custom Title. When a user is banned, all of his posts are updated with the Banned CT. So they're bound to ask eventually.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah everybody will see that, I think most will figure out why :rolleyes hopefully we get no celebration threads their are four posters who would celebrate at least.

[Taylor Millard]

I've had a couple people go, "JonathanLB was banned??" to me in chats or over IM.

I tell 'em if they have any questions to PM the Box Office Mods, but I've had only one person ask why. The other was like, "Eh okay."

[CMJ]

He sent me an email expressing his shock and disappointemnt over the banning. How he got that email account, I don't know. It's not my main one. :\

Anyways, I guess that kinda closes up this case. Back to Lebron. ;)

[JMK]

Are we talking about Sirdizzy asking questions over Jon's banning?

[JMK]

So now Dutchy and Sirdizzy have noticed the CT and are wondering. I took the liberty of pm'ing them and giving them a quick version of what happened. They'll write back if they've got any questions but I didn't post any further comment in the "Citizen Kane" thread.

[CMJ]

Good call...it's what I woulda done.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thanks for covering Kyle, has Dizzy and Dutchy said anything else to you about it? I am surprised Dizzy thought Jon was a good contributer wasn't he over at cc.net when Jon was banned there (I could be wrong about that)

[JMK]

Well Dutchy is not upset to see him gone, he enjoyed some of his stuff, but knew he was mostly trouble. Sirdizzy on the other hand really thought of Jon as a great contributor and said that he always just looked past his dumb posts.

[Shawn]

Jon asked that we make a post about his banning with his e-mail address so people can contact him. Thoughts?

Edit ~ I'm going to go ahead and post a notice in the BO forum. I can't think of a polite way to say "No Celebrations", so I'm just going to close the thread I'm posting and hope that no one says anything further.

If someone posts something like "Good Riddance", please warn them sternly about it and ask them to edit their post.

[JMK]

I have no problem with him asking to do that. I think it was a good idea to close the thread, there are no comments needed.

[Shawn]

I'm also going to post all e-mail exchanges between us. I have the feeling that there will be at least two more. I realize that I may not have handled my responses in the same way that everyone else here might have but I was trying to make it clear that we weren't just jumping on his back for no reason.
Hello,

I have already defended myself against the accusations you have made before, so I hardly need to go into those again. I do not make vulgar or trollish comments. I've been a long-time member of the forum (4 years), so to suggest that I am a troll is just silly. My time is way too valuable to waste harrassing people on a forum.

I was on vacation in Mexico when you sent this e-mail, so I was not checking my e-mail during that time. Anyway, it is your forum, you guys absolutely can do whatever you want and I have to respect that, but I wanted to raise one issue/question. When Eve sent me a PM, I agreed to take some time off from the forum and decided not to post because of the recent events and just to let things cool down. I complied willingly with Eve's suggestion and before I did anything else, I was banned. So you warned me, then banned me without letting me respond to the warning. I don't see how that is fair by any stretch of the imagination. You do not tell troops to surrender and then fire on them simultaneously. You tell them to surrender, wait for a response, then either fire or accept their surrender.

Ok that being said, I certainly don't expect you to reverse your decision or anything because you guys seem set on banning me, despite my numerous contributions to the forum, which you could have at least noted instead of sending me an insulting e-mail. This leads to my next question, which is hypothetical because I'm not sure I'd really be interested. Anyway, at some time in the future, be it 3 months, 6 months, or a year, would you consider re-evaluating the situation? I happen to have a few friends on the forum at least. I mean, it would even be nice if you could just post something about the situation as simple as “Jonathan is no longer a member of the forum, but you may reach him at Jonathan@jlbmedia.com“ or something. Otherwise, I cannot send PMs to these people, I can't access their e-mail addresses, etc.

Oh well, I know you are the God of the forum, hehe, and I respect your wishes. I will not cause you any problems or anyone else any problems, I only wish you'd take my words into consideration at some point in the future.

Until then, May the Force Be With You.

-Jonathan L. Bowen And my response:
First thing I'll respond to:

>> When Eve sent me a PM, I agreed to take some time off from the forum and decided not to post because of the recent events and just to let things cool down. I complied willingly with Eve's suggestion and before I did anything else, I was banned. So you warned me, then banned me without letting me respond to the warning. <<

Yet even during this “time off“, you have still continued posting on the board, including comments which have incited arguments. Eve even told you to “keep lurking“, yet you couldn't keep yourself away from the boards. You personally offended many posters.

To use your analogy, you “surrendered“, we waited, then you reached for your gun and fired off a few more shots for good measure.

This, alone, would not have earned you a banning. But given your track record and the numerous warnings you've received in the past, this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The decision was nearly unanimous among the staff.

You've been warned about your behaviour in the past, so this is shouldn't come as a surprise to you.

My e-mail was not meant to be insulting or anything else: It was simply a formality notifying you of our actions and explaining our reasons. Bannings have never been reversed or repealed before at the forums, to my knowledge, so I wouldn't expect that to be a possibility now.

As for posting a notice on the forums: I will see to that after I send this e-mail.

On a more personal note, Jon: It is my understanding that this isn't the first forum you've been banned from. Perhaps, instead of focusing on how unjust this decision may seem to you, why don't you consider what kind of behaviour might be prompting such action? This isn't meant as an insult or flame, simply person-to-person advice for when you register and begin to post at another forum.

Regards,
Shawn
I deliberated about that last part for quite a while, but I feel that it's something that needed to be said. He honestly thinks he's done nothing wrong, despite the fact that 3/4ths of the staff has had to talk to him about his posts in the past; I think he needs to stop focusing on how "the man" is trying to "keep him down" and realize that he was banned for his behaviour - nothing more, nothing less.

[CMJ]

Interestingly enough he mentioned in an email to me that he's somewhat embarrassed by his "luck" in forums. The kid is more self aware then he let's on. At least about how he's regaurded.

He just doesn't understand what does and does not incite people.

[JMK]

I believe its because he's had his way all his life. He's probably gotten away with murder and he's miffed as to why "suddenly" he's being penalized for his actions. He's a member of an online forum, his social status and bank account mean nothing here.

I agree 100% with Shawn, this is the 3rd forum he's been banned from. Soon his reputation will precede him and he will have 2 strikes before even making a post in his next forum. He's got to wake up and realize the world doesn't revolve around him and his film studies.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I also wonder if he acts like this is real life or he does this because he is shielded by a computer? Some people act a lot different on the internet.

[ReaperFett]

He's a member of an online forum, his social status and bank account mean nothing here.
Why does that mean ANYTHING? THe most spoilt brats I've ever met haven't come from wealthy backgrounds.

[Shawn]

But he did, and it's obviously affected him.

[JMK]

Reaper if you had a nickel for every time he explicitly or vaguely referenced how rich he was you would be rich. Obviously I'm exaggerating but let's get real everyone has heard him boast about his dad's wealth. It HAS affected his behavior, like it or not.

[Shawn]

Ug... Jon is just TOO much sometimes.
Shawn,

The last time I was banned at a forum was when I was about 17 as I recall. It has happened probably three times before, but I had been banned from SWFans.net before, and have returned before, too. I guess you have to know the history of the forum to know all of that. It has been ages since I've been banned from any forum permanently, actually.

“You've been warned about your behaviour in the past, so this is shouldn't come as a surprise to you.“

That's not really true, no. First, I don't know what “behaviour“ that would be -- you have seen there are many posters who appreciate my contributions, even if the moderators and admins are mostly against me or whatever you might say. After Eve sent me the PM, I did not make one single inflammatory post, so I have no idea what you mean. I made all of about 5-6 posts -- 2-3 in a thread where Dutchy asked me why I was taking time off, then 3 in the thread where Jedieb made a comment directly referring to me and I responded to his comment. That was it. I made no other comments or posts and did nothing whatsoever to break any rules.

I have done nothing wrong on SWFans.net. Making other people angry is not a crime, as far as I'm aware, and it isn't against forum rules either. I do not flame people, I do not insult them intentionally or directly at all, and god forbid anyone have to think once or twice about a controversial issue! I can't help that you or others don't like the occassional provocative post. That's really not my problem; it is the lack of ability for several people, moderators and admins apparently especially, not to be able to deal with reality or not to be able to take a joke, either.

I'm one of the most agreeable, polite guys around. I don't need to change anything I do, actually. I would never change who I am for some people on the Internet, no offense. I'm a productive, intelligent, talented individual with the greatest possible potential -- I answer to nobody but myself.

-Jonathan I don't have any intention of responding at this time. There's nothing to say that hasn't already been said.

[JMK]

It's evident that he will NEVER change. He made insulting, sweeping generalizations almost on a weekly basis. It's HIS problem if all he does is offend people. Lots of people here have different opinions, but his always seemed to strike a nerve with more than one person. When called out on it, he took an overly agressive, defensive stance and put his blinders on.

I wouldn't respond to that email either. He keeps re-iterating how busy and talented he is, he can't *possibly* have the time to type ANOTHER long-winded email to you Shawn. :rolleyes

[TheHolo.Net]

I myself wouldn't have posted regarding his banning as it only servers to possibly draw the type of symathetic attention that Jon may want to try and pressure us to reverse our decision, but its cool.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I doubt there will be too many people who want him back :p Though Dizzy seems to think he is okay but Dizzy is a little odd himself.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Has anybody else noticed that Jon is posting over at CC.net? I find it funny I thought it was banned from there. Interesting enough he started posted not long after we banned Dizzy, not sure if Dizzy decided to let Jon back or if he wasn't actually banned from there.