All RP staff!

[TheHolo.Net]

I have thought long and hard about this and feel it must be dealt with since it does nothing more than blight our role-playing community with negativity and mistrust.

I have recently been given irrefutable proof that one Daegal Murdoch has in his possession, the text from several topics within a private forum that he never had legitimate access to.

In a PM conversation he showed me this evidence while discussing my own ethics, which he was questioning. While his and my own opinions on my ethics do differ, the fact remains that he has proven himself guilty of infiltration and action should be taken so that such seeds can be removed from our community as the SWFans FAQ clearly lays out.

I am unable to say for certain how he acquired this private information that he should not have, but regardless, I can prove he has it via the PMs he sent to me himself. He is guilty of infiltration and should face the appropriate recourse, which all posters would in such a case.

So I now leave it up to the Roleplaying staff as a whole.

Should Daegal be banned for infiltration?

Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like before giving your answer.

This is a very serious issue and not something I care to do, but I cannot sit on my hands in regards to infiltration any longer. It does nothing but sully our community and as one of our long standing rules it must be enforced, else it be taken advantage of time and time again.

The choice to ban Daegal for infiltration has already been discussed and agreed upon by the SWFans.Net moderators, now since it does concern the group boards as well, the discussion has been brought here before being concluded.

[Darth Viscera]

He should be banned.

[Taylor Millard]

If you've got proof (which you do) and the pudding's well done (which it is)...then ban him. I'll support you either way.

[TheHolo.Net]

Charley has verified the proof in a way that proved its content beyond any doubt. Yog has also spoken with Daegal in which he confirmed he had this private information to Yog during an IM chat.

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm sure you're aware of my opinion on the matter. Ban him.

[Xazor Elessar]

It's the only fair thing to do. If I infiltrated, you would ban me....if Morg infiltrated, you would ban him. We cannot play favorites especially on such a serious matter. I say to do the thing that is fair...ban him.....

[Sage Hazzard]

He should be banned most absolutely. How could he be so stupid, to flaunt the fact he has secret documents? Maybe he wants to be banned? Negative attention? It's a shrink thing.

[Gav Mortis]

I wish it were known for certain that he actually did the infiltrating or did he have an accomplice? That needs to be verified.

The best course of action is to privately warn him of his imminent banning and state that if he was given the private information from an insider then unless he names the insider responsible then he will be banned. If he does give the name then he cannot be placed entirely responsible and that if he cooperates, then he should have a strict warning and that any such misconduct will result in immediate banning and as for his accomplice, ban him.

If he does name names, then obviously thorough investigation is required but if he is solely responsible for the infiltration:

<CENTER>http://www.andrew-milligan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/misc/banhim.jpg</CENTER>

[TheHolo.Net]

The one problem with that is how do we get irrefutable proof that any name he mentions is the accurate one? I mean, he has proven, to me at least by just having retained this private information and flaunting it, that his own ethics and personal values are not of an upstanding nature and that says to me that lying would be a simple thing to shift blame and try to clear his name.

But that was Yog's purpose in contacting him, so that he could explain himself, and be given the chance to defend his actions. Yog will have to be the one to provide further details on how that went.

[Sage Hazzard]

Well, you know what they say. Two things you can't trust. A liar and a thief. He's both. He stole the secret posts and broke an oath all RPers take, to not infiltrate. But can't hurt to ask. If he gives a name, ask the one he names. Maybe the accomplice will flaunt it too?

[TheHolo.Net]

A definite possibility.

[Xazor Elessar]

That's a good idea Sage.....you should do that, and then if a name is given, take that route, if not: BAN HIM!

[TheHolo.Net]

Might be good to wait until Yog has spoken about how his talk with Daegal went so that things are not done twice.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I say BAN HIM, and :lol to Gav's piccie. But if we can get him to squeak on his friends, all the better. Then ban them all.

[Taylor Millard]

That's the best solution I see. Find out all the information you can, but BAN HIM first off.

If we do, can I be the Roman Centurian who takes him out? Pwwweassssssse :) ;)

[Marcus Telcontar]

Accomplice and him should be banned.

[Jedi Master Leia Solo]

I say you have to go by the rules. If you have pure evidence..then he must pay the price of breaking rules.

[Sanis Prent]

I'd like to stress that this shouldn't go the route of the inquisition or salem trials. We've gotta be very by-the-book here. The same burden of proof that we had to surmount to finger him for infiltration, he should be held to when bringing accomplices forward. This way, it doesn't become a name-dropping game of hot potato. If there are others, he'll have just as tough a time establishing it as we had in confirming his own guilt.

If it does get to that, and if there is an intermediate source and accomplice...then I reluctantly say that perhaps a compromising lessened punishment would be in order. Perhaps a one month ban, who knows.

[TheHolo.Net]

I agree that any accomplices that may be named must be proven beyond any shadow of doubt as linked to this incident also. As was done with Daegal in this case.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Well said Charley, and I concur. Until such proof is forthcoming, he should be looked at as the sole guilty party with appropriate actions taken.

[AmazonBabe]

If there is proof, then I say ban him. We don't need dishonest ppl running about.

[imported_Eve]

I say ban him. I said the same thing for someone else doing the same thing months ago.

[TheHolo.Net]

I have spoken to Yog in regards to his discussion with Daegal (and a few others in regards to this incident). Instead of explaining how or why the information was obtained/retained, technicalities and loopholes in the rules of infiltration are being sought to make this instance excusable. I find that to be a poor tactic, which further serves to quite possibly imply guilt and malicious intent for said private information.

The private information shown was in regards to both an individual and a recognized group that RPs here at SWFans, and it was also posted by members of the SWFans Community and as such is private information that falls under the rules of infiltration and should not be in the hands of those whom it was not intended to be.

An invasion of privacy has occurred and if it is made excusable due to small technicalities, then the staff of these forums may as well not attempt to govern them at all, because it will have then been proven that authority and the intent of the rules doesn’t matter but small loopholes in them do.

This is a matter of personal ethics and such personal ethics being stripped and/or abused, and it is my belief that is the very reason the infiltration rules were created in the first place. An invasion of another or group of other roleplayer’s privacy creates mistrust and that has most definitely occurred here and will continue to unless dealt with. And it appears that the staff that has spoken here agrees that this situation must be dealt with appropriately.

[imported_Eve]

Tru dat.

When ya going to do it? I see him lurking now.

[TheHolo.Net]

Done and announced.

[TheHolo.Net]

The announcement was made in this case because the majority of the posting population is unaware of what occurred, which is very unlike the instance with Lady Mara Jade/Abomination that happened back in March. The announcement also serves as a reminder just how serious infiltration is and what consequences it brings.

Since the announcement will only be up for two days and then vanish completely I will save a copy here for future reference.
Bearing bad news (06.26.02 until 06.28.02)

This is not something I relish or care to do but I must now announce that a member of our community has been found guilty of infiltration, and by way of involvement from both the staff of the main SWFans.Net board and the staff of the group boards here, it has been decided that this member is to be banned for this infraction.

Infiltration is never an easy thing to prove or carry out, but it has been beyond any shadow of doubt in this case, both by evidence and admission to possession of said private information. It must be dealt with per the rules that were made to safeguard trust between roleplayers here at our community.

Some already have and may continue to claim that this instance is excusable because they feel this case does not violate the rules of infiltration stated in the FAQ, by choosing to expose and or exploit technicalities. Many others and I find this case of an invasion of a group of other SWFans.Net Community roleplayer’s privacy to be serious and it should not be treaded upon lightly. This instance has not been taken lightly, and has been debated for several days now, with all the staff of SWFans and the staff of the groups contained herein given the opportunity to voice concerns, asks questions, and make their own decisions.

Not a single staff member has objected to the recourse chosen in this case, and as such I announce today that Daegal Murdoch and all the names he has registered here at SWFans are hereby banned on the substantiated grounds of infiltration.

[Live Wire]

very good announcement

[Maester Wargrave]

Yes I agree. Good writing Mr. SWFans.Net I'm sorry it had to come to this.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Agrred with LW and Wargrave I am. Had to be done and well put.

[Morgan Evanar]

I've a few ideas on who his accomplice might be.

[imported_Eve]

Oh yeah? Spit it out...please?

[Morgan Evanar]

No point in passing around what only is a logical hunch. I have about zero evidence, soo....

[Marcus Telcontar]

Best not to say a name then. But you are thinking it's linked to someone else who has already been banned?

[Morgan Evanar]

Nope.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Scratch this post. I sounded like a paranoid idiot

[Lady Vader]

*Hands "paranoid idiot" a cookie.*

It's ok. In light of what's happened, it's only natural. Hell, happens to me too. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Not me. I'm a paranoid genius. :p