RP Staff. (IMPORTANT)

[TheHolo.Net]

I have thought long and hard about this and feel it must be dealt with since it does nothing more than blight our role-playing community with negativity and mistrust.

I have recently been given irrefutable proof that one Daegal Murdoch has in his possession, the text from several topics within a private forum that he never had legitimate access to.

In a PM conversation he showed me this evidence while discussing my own ethics, which he was questioning. While his and my own opinions on my ethics do differ, the fact remains that he has proven himself guilty of infiltration and action should be taken so that such seeds can be removed from our community as the SWFans FAQ clearly lays out.

I am unable to say for certain how he acquired this private information that he should not have, but regardless, I can prove he has it via the PMs he sent to me himself. He is guilty of infiltration and should face the appropriate recourse which all posters would in such a case.

So I now leave it up to the Roleplaying staff as a whole.

Should Daegal be banned for infiltration?

Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like before giving your answer.

This is a very serious issue and not something I care to do, but I cannot sit on my hands in regards to infiltration any longer. It does nothing but sully our community and as one of our long standing rules it must be enforced, else it be taken advantage of time and time again.

[TheHolo.Net]

As an additional note:

I think if this issue is decided as a yes by the current SWFans.Net Roleplaying staff, it should them be moved to the Group Moderator forum so that they can provide their input as well. Such an instance does affect them as well (a SWFans.Net banning means a banning from all group boards too) and they should have an opportunity to voice their opinions as well.

I am not saying this topic will be moved there literally, just that the subject should be discussed in the group mod forum so they have the opportunity I mentioned previously.

[ReaperFett]

I abstain

[Sanis Prent]

Is there any way to unilaterally verify this PM came from Daegal? I trust you in this matter, but I would feel more assured of whatever action we take if there is some way to authenticate that a PM came from him with this admission. (In other words, something more than a cut and pasting of the transcript)

[TheHolo.Net]

I can verify his IP as of last time of visit which will correlate very closely with his last PM to me by way of unaltered screenshot. and the PM can also be done via unaltered screenshot.

[Sanis Prent]

I'd like to see those. And is there any way to determine that a screenshot is unaltered? I know that with hex-matching colors and painting over text, you can make some very convincing forgeries. I'm not saying you would, I'm just being the devil's advocate here.

[TheHolo.Net]

Not that I am aware of. :\

I'll get those screencaps made now. The information contained within is stuff said by myself, Nup, and Dale within a private forum that Daegal never had access to.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

well, if it is he that has this information then he will have to say how he got it...

gods... I am so sick of this bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

He wont say and that will go nowhere.

[TheHolo.Net]

This is Charley Hicks (Sanis Prent) hereby stating that I have been given permission by the owner of the SWFans.Net account to log in and verify receipt of an incriminating private message. I will return once the message is viewed, and authenticate this statement.

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

My permission was granted and my PW for that account temporarily changed for this purpose.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

well how about I leave and give them what they want I am sick of what is going on behind lock doors crap and no one talking to anyone because everyone is out to get one another stupidity....

I know I shouldn't let it bother me but that is a little late with my personal situation >:

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

Your leaving is not the answer. You are not the one who is holding and using private information for your own ends. Daegal is as this PM proves and should be punished accordingly.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

still wont change the fact that I won't be left alone, and neither will my friends.

I am sick of the internal BS that people make up and are looking for in obvious venting being misconstrued as frelling truth.

[Ogre Mal Pannis]

That is exactly what the information I was shown by Daegal was, some people blowing off steam and venting to try and relax.

I suspect that their moving to their own board is just the beginning of their intent to seperate from SWFans completely. The only reason I suspect they haven't split off completely yet is so that they can attempt to convince others of our supposed evils and get then to go with them to thier new home.

I say if people want to believe hearsay and things taken out of context, then let them, nothing can be done about that. Their seperating from this community will not really hurt it IMO, we are growing almost every day without people coming from TSE. Let em go I say, if that is their intent.

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

:: shrugs ::

I don't care honestly either. Everyone is able to do whatever they want here... within reason.

If people don't feel that way ... then oh well... what are you going to do.

And I am still trying to figure out how this even got this far and no that isnt an invitation to discuss it :lol I am just venting.

[TheHolo.Net]

I have my account back now and the PW has been reset to something other than the shared one that was used so Charley could verify the PM's content.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by SWFans.Net
This is Charley Hicks (Sanis Prent) hereby stating that I have been given permission by the owner of the SWFans.Net account to log in and verify receipt of an incriminating private message. I will return once the message is viewed, and authenticate this statement.

I authenticate this statement, and have viewed the evidence presented in a manner that cannot be altered. The evidence as I have seen is undisputable.

Therefore, I move to ban Daegal Murdoch at Swforums.net

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

well, I want him banned, but like I told Ogies in IM land... I am a bit biased in this but ... since he does have proven evidence of private information that he isn't suppose to have .... as stated in the FAQ that is banable so .... he needs to be banned.

[TheHolo.Net]

Another 24 hours and if no objections come, this discussion will be brought up with the group mods for their approval.

[Master Yoghurt]

This sucks. I had a roleplay planned with Daegal & Dara and was also going to train him (Breldun Vedas) at GJO. Guess that goes into the bin now. Why is it so difficult to follow the rules? Why cant posters privacy be respected? Sometimes, I have the feeling people dont care. :x

I don't like the idea of banning one single bit, but it is prudent to set an example. Otherwise, it would look like we accept infiltration when clearly stated in the forum conduct rules it is not. Ignoring the occurance would be a bad signal to send, giving the message nothing bad will happen if you get caught. Consequently, some sort of action or response from the staff would be appropriate.

I recommend Daegal is given a chance to explain himself. If no satisfactory explaination is given, we have no other choice than move for banning. :|

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
I recommend Daegal is given a chance to explain himself.Someone approaching him as to how and why he has private information from a locked/private forum should be done by someone other than myself, so as to exclude any possible bias. I do agree the chance should be given, but will not do it myself as the private information is from one of the private forums I have access to.

[ReaperFett]

Out of intrest, if he ehard it from someone else, is that infiltration?

[TheHolo.Net]

Yes, because he should have either reported that he heard it from someone else immediately naming the source, or just deleted it and washed his hands of it completely. Retaining information from a private forum is just as ethically bad as obtaining it.

Either amounts to an invasion of privacy and that is what the rules of infiltration are there to protect against.

[TheHolo.Net]

Discussion started here:

http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20148