Concerning the NR..

[Liam Jinn]

First off, how many people do we got RPing for the NR as of now? I'd like to see the NR get back into the whole fleet thing and give TGE some competition. What I was thinking is a series of attacks assisted by the Jedi which would cause TGE to lose a few planets and some of their fleet. Does anybody feel up to taking on TGE?

[Loki Ahmrah]

Before discussing this I suggest checking this (http://www.swforums.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19770) thread out.

[Liam Jinn]

Eh, is it really worth reading?

[Navaria Tarkin]

well, it IS very important about how Fleets are being played and etc..

[Liam Jinn]

off to reading then..

[Liam Jinn]

Heh, alright, maybe we should have NRSF or the warriors attack one of the strongest new groups that forms then?

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

well, we will have to wait and see what actually happens.

I do have a NR character. Winter just haven't used her in a long ass while -_-

[Liam Jinn]

But if the NR goes to a NPC thing, then would your NR char. still be around?

[Dalethria Mal Pannis]

Winter is from the Expanded Universe so no .... hell no. Winter exists.

[AmazonBabe]

Uh, I got me a character named Sophia Harten of NRSF Intelligence.

[Marcus Telcontar]

NRSF wont be affected. It's more an offshoot of GJO than of the NR.

[Oriadin]

Hmmm, I dont know if im being thick but I dont understand whats going on. I dont really use the other boards that much so that may have something to do with it. Can anyone put down a simple explination of whats actually being proposed here and why?

Thanks!

[TheHolo.Net]

I think people may be taking this NR as NPC thing just a little too literally.

I believe that the NPC issue with the NR is more of a political nature, than a broad group wide thing. I think it still possible to have a NR group with individual player character members. But those player characters won’t really have much influence on the aspects discussed to some extent in the Military RP thread in OOC.

I have a NR character that is sort of alone and separate from the actual NR group that is kind of around, and I sure as stone am not giving him up based on some NR = NPC statement decided by that thread.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Yes, the situation is similar to that of the Empire. People can still roleplay Imperials and Republic personnel but shouldn't expect to be part of some superpower and have the power of enormous fleets behind them. Rather they will have their own small NR/Imp group or can join another which can grow in power and influence as it's members grow.

[Morgan Evanar]

The NRSF is a seperate entity from the GJO and should be treated as such. Right now its far too tied together, and after I get home from work, I'm going to be up to something about that.

[AmazonBabe]

:huh

Well, um, in either case, keep me informed, Morg? Just so I know where Sophia gets stuck in.

Oh, and I gotta find me a good piccy of a vornskyr. Anyone got any good piccys?

[Morgan Evanar]

Sure.

No dice on the Vonskyr pic tho.... been looking for one for a while.

[Marcus Telcontar]

:huh


No. GJO and NRSF share a relationship. The purpose of NRSF was so that Jedi who wanted to play with guns can do so. People like Jyanis and myself.

Now maybe the nature of NRSF will need to change, given the ground rules have changed, but the nature and purpose OOC I dont see need to.

[Loki Ahmrah]

Personally, I don't see a relationship of any kind between NRSF and GJO. As a matter of principle, Jedi should not become affiliated with any special forces; their loyalty should be to GJO and GJO alone. I see the NRSF as an entirely separate, independant body.

I see no reason why the NRSF should run with this new approach to military roleplaying, it has a head start over competition and fits perfectly into the criteria for these new, smaller groups.

[Marcus Telcontar]

I'd agree, NRSF is perfectly suited to the new rules. It's always been small, but well set up and always took the view of Progress through Technology. (Ripped that from Audi )

But, it is tied to the GJO, because it's originator was. Even if the then Tohmahawk would not have blinked to go against a Jedi, he still cared for what happened with them and it was his way of producing a symbiont if you will, also finding like minded people who wanted to not be as passive as he saw the Jedi were. Too passive in his opinion. The NRSF welcomed Jedi and has placed some in it's ranks under guises or openly.

The relationship exists and with some Jedi, it's very actute as well. Even if Marcus is no longer at the helm of what he created, he will be taking in interest in it. Maybe others will too. The fact is, it came into being for a purpose and there are a lot of links between the NRSF and the GJO.

And as for being loyal to the GJO? That in itself is an issue I intend to explore in coming months and Marcus doesnt think that way in the slightest. Yet, he is a Jedi. But where does his loyalites lie? With his wife? With the NRSF? With his home? Himself? It's a question that is I hope to be an interesting one to examine



Edit : I think it's time everyone with an NRSF interest gets together and hammers out a united direction and standards, instead of the on the fly

[Morgan Evanar]

Indeed.

You probably won't like what I'm about to type, Marcus.

I find the way you roleplay anything with the NRSF extremely distasteful. I chose that becuase the swear filter here goes a little overboard.

Now, before I continue, let me explain why the NRSF has been so very, very quiet.

1- Conditions were absolutely wrong. No one out of character who played an Imperial was ready to deal with a group of people who were essentially sneaky bastards. I think that collectively, (excluding a few obvious people *coughguecough*) that they might now be ready to deal with tight strung damaging RPs.

2- The NRSF is currently tied to the Jedi. This makes me very, very unhappy. This also implies several things that I don't like, which are character crossovers.

I don't like character's who bleed the lines without being artful about it. You are supposed to either do one thing really well, excel at it, or do a few things ok. You can't excel at everything without making some fairly extreme tradeoffs.

Now why wouldn't I want a Jedi along? Simply put, the Special Forces sometimes do things that aren't humane. They're all Jekyl and Hydes. If you read what some things a regular military unit can encounter in war, it turns your stomach.

The sort of things I want to do are far worse.

Now, I do realize I'm being rather roundabout, and you'll have to excuse me--I simply refuse to write an outline for this sort of thing.

One of the things that bothers me so deeply is that the NRSF gets thrown around as an RP prop. I don't like it. Don't like it one damn bit.

This puts me into possible IC obligations that I don't want and creates false impressions of resources, size and locations.

Well, since I'm pretty much now finished decrying things as they currently stand, I'll move on, and attempt to be positive, and lay down what I'd like to see.

Item A: The NRSF is a small, extremely elite, Special Forces unit. Jedi not included.

Exact number of commisioned personnel is roughly 1,500,and able to call on roughly 8,000 commisioned personel from regular NR units, all hand picked, all volunteers.

Item B: The NRSF is not a naval operation. The vast majority of the flight capable craft are modified Delta class assault shuttles and heavily modified Quasar Fire-class bulk cruiser, and a few assorted.

Item C: NRSF does some of its own intelligence, most often working side by side with the regular NR Intelligence corps. Minimum waste of resources. It is not uncommon for the NRSF-I who scouted to participate in the actual end operation.

I'm sure there are many other nagging things that will occour to me later, and I'll add them.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

(Makes a Morg-sounding echo)

I was always in the camp of those who saw NRSF as the answer to the Jedi, especially in a New Republic where the ruling body might not want the kind of people whose action or lack thereof brought about the empire, in a position of absolute authority again. By making GJO and NRSF kissing cousins as has been attempted, you lose both groups sense of espirit, which is something that shouldn't be done at all.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The NRSF, as originally devised WAS a prop. And I still regard it as a prop. Tohmahawk was a prop. The defender was a prop. The only difference was that it was all made legal as a defence against TGE and co. It was specifically taken from a few ideas I had in my mind and discussed with Yog and Jyanis. It's original and secret charter was to wipe out the Jedi if they got out of hand. It was made as independant as possible to act as it saw fit, even against the republic if that had to be done. Tohmahawk was a vicious bastard and would pull the trigger on his one time friends if he had to.

Quite basically, the NRSF has been quiet because I have not been driving it forward like I used to. I've placed it to one side and then, what's happened since then? Since I decided to start bringing Tohmahawk back into something more like a Jedi, I've known there was no way Marcus could ever do the nasty stuff he was capable of as a soldier, I knew very well the duality of his nature had to be solved. And is in process of being. And thence I've let the NRSF go becuase it's simply not something Marcus can or should do. No one's really run with since then, have they?

* Withdrawn comment *

If you want to run with NRSF, yep, cool beans. I see what exists would feed in well with the proposed ideas, very well indeed. And I would love to see it being RP'ed again as characters, not an NPC.

[Liam Jinn]

I don't like the idea of no Jedi in NRSF. I see where it's comming from but come on I'm one of the only active jedi in NRSF. As long as the jedi involved don't get too out of hand and don't forget how to act like a jedi, I don't see a problem with it.

[Morgan Evanar]

As long as the jedi involved don't get too out of hand and don't forget how to act like a jedi, I don't see a problem with it.

And you just explained why its impossible.


If you want to run with NRSF, yep, cool beans. I see what exists would feed in well with the proposed ideas, very well indeed. And I would love to see it being RP'ed again as characters, not an NPC.

Well, I'm glad I have your blessing, but if it is out of your hands, I'm going to scrap things like the Defender, which are frankly stupid. Roleplaying "prop" or not, its pretty much godmoding.

Being treated as a prop and seeing things thrown around which are impossible, because it's a "prop" gets really annoying. It also illigitimizes someone else's work.

I didn't create West, the 128th, or anything else, to be your toy, and I felt it's been treated as such.

I did try to move it out of prop status, but one of the things I absolutely had to do was scrap things like the Defender, and every time, regardless of how sound the reasoning, I got "its a prop, it doesn't affect anyone."

Well, it did, it still does. You can't throw around things like that. It doesn't work, and its cheating.

"Prop" needs to stop being an excuse to break the rules.

Mark, I've been seriously disapointed the last five or six months. I used to really enjoy RPing with you, but I stopped, and I think you can see why now.

I know this sounds pretentious as hell and stuff, but I really think it would do you good to start a new character totally from scratch, and completely unrelated to your previous work. I really used to enjoy your writing, and occasionally participating in some of it, but I can't anymore.

[AmazonBabe]

I think I'm... lost.

:: Waves hand. ::

Don't mind me... I'll just ask ya on AIM later, Morg. :)