My list of things I didn't like in EP2 [spoilers]

[ReaperFett]

Urge to write a list :)




- Hayden Christiansen's acting in the 1st half of the film. It felt like he was being forced to say things, and wasnt putting an effort in. I do gather it is hard to work with blue screens, and the second half did show an improvement, as his character developed.

- The riding cgi. While not BAD, it did seem to stand out compared to the rest. I felt the same about Maul on his bike in TPM. Aside from the DUel of the fates side shot of Anakin, something always looked "wrong". Like I said above, I attribute this more to the rest being great (Taun We's clothing was amazing, and for such an unimportant thing), but it goes down anyway

- The Trade Federation droid ship attack being cut. First, it involved three of my favourite Jedi, Ki-Adi Mundi, Plo Koon and Aayla Secura. But also, it made the Jedi look smarter. When Mace said to Obi "We're on to it" reguarding the droids, it made it look like they had been planning, so that the droids would be taken out. Instead, the whole lot charged dumbly into a trap.

- Mace Windu's fight. This I attribute more down to hype. There was Lucas saying he'd be winning the best fight award the eyar before. But when it got to it, it wasn't THAT good. I mean, the actual fight was basically deflect, deflect, deflect, lop off head. I do gather it was cut a bit, but it ended up a dissapointment. I mean, "Two Sabre Dude" did more than Mace did!

- TV Spots/Trailers showing too much. The early ones were fine, but later on I got a bit miffed. Especially when they werent important. WHY did we need to see Dooku telling the TF that she would die? Until then, Dooku could be seen as mysterious. But now we knew he was planning on killing her. Aside from that, there were no hints (Anakin could be fighting in a fit of rage and so on). They also took all of my child like excitement from Jango. Had he suddenly used his flame thrower, or fired his rocket, Id have yelled "WOW!" I alsways dreamt of seeing Boba do that as a kid! Instead, I saw it on the TV while half watching, half eating. Effect gone.

- Anakins fall. Personal opinion, but I feel Anakin shouldn't have been so disagreeing at the start of EP2. I liked how in TPM they picked this cute kid, and it was something to think about, that little thing became pure evil. But in EP2, He didnt have any of that. I just wish there was SOMETHING that made him seem more of a nice person than this snappy spoilt 18 year old, who is willing to use someone he really likes as bait.

- One tiny thing about the romance. WHAT did Padmé see in Anakin? I couldn't ever figure this one out. This sortof falls into the point above. He is either drooling like a schoolboy or acting like a spoilt brat.





I mean, I still love the film amazingly, still think it's above all but ESB in that "One SW movie to watch, WHICH?" way, but nothing is perfect. I just wanted to get mine out :)

[imported_Eve]

I agree 100%. This doesn't happen much between you and I. Let's cherish the moment shall we? Now back to discussion.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Okay I am going to disagree with you some here
Hayden Christiansen's acting in the 1st half of the film. It felt like he was being forced to say things, and wasnt putting an effort in. I do gather it is hard to work with blue screens, and the second half did show an improvement, as his character developed.
I never had a problem with his acting, he did a good job though I agree it got even better in the second half

- The riding cgi. While not BAD, it did seem to stand out compared to the rest. I felt the same about Maul on his bike in TPM. Aside from the DUel of the fates side shot of Anakin, something always looked "wrong". Like I said above, I attribute this more to the rest being great (Taun We's clothing was amazing, and for such an unimportant thing), but it goes down anyway

I had no problem with this, maybe I would have to see it and really concentrate on this scene. Still I love that scene especially when the Duel of the Fates comes on it so huge of a moment kind for me at least

- The Trade Federation droid ship attack being cut. First, it involved three of my favourite Jedi, Ki-Adi Mundi, Plo Koon and Aayla Secura. But also, it made the Jedi look smarter. When Mace said to Obi "We're on to it" reguarding the droids, it made it look like they had been planning, so that the droids would be taken out. Instead, the whole lot charged dumbly into a trap.

Now I agree with you a bit here I wish they would have included it, but if they did it would have made it over 2 hours and half which would have been too long. I also read some of the scene and I have feelling the audience would have been confused about the droids turning off and then turning on. Also I like it better that the Jedi fall into the trap because it shows they are arrogant, they felt they could hold off the army until the Clones came

- Mace Windu's fight. This I attribute more down to hype. There was Lucas saying he'd be winning the best fight award the eyar before. But when it got to it, it wasn't THAT good. I mean, the actual fight was basically deflect, deflect, deflect, lop off head. I do gather it was cut a bit, but it ended up a dissapointment. I mean, "Two Sabre Dude" did more than Mace did!

Now overall I liked it, I really liked his lines that led up to it. Really I don't know why Lucas pushed it up so much maybe this was before Yoda and before they worked out the whole thing with him. Now I think they cut a lot out from what I hear because I have read that Mace did a lot more, there is more in the comic and book that seem really cool, especially with Jango flying around shooting at Mace, but for the same reason as above there was time issues.

- TV Spots/Trailers showing too much. The early ones were fine, but later on I got a bit miffed. Especially when they werent important. WHY did we need to see Dooku telling the TF that she would die? Until then, Dooku could be seen as mysterious. But now we knew he was planning on killing her. Aside from that, there were no hints (Anakin could be fighting in a fit of rage and so on). They also took all of my child like excitement from Jango. Had he suddenly used his flame thrower, or fired his rocket, Id have yelled "WOW!" I alsways dreamt of seeing Boba do that as a kid! Instead, I saw it on the TV while half watching, half eating. Effect gone.

Now I honestly was spoiled from the trailers and such, my biggest problem was giving into spoilers mainly knowing that Shimi was going to get killed by tusken Raiders and Boba was a clone. Even know these things that didn't hurt my viewing experience, but that is just me.

- Anakins fall. Personal opinion, but I feel Anakin shouldn't have been so disagreeing at the start of EP2. I liked how in TPM they picked this cute kid, and it was something to think about, that little thing became pure evil. But in EP2, He didnt have any of that. I just wish there was SOMETHING that made him seem more of a nice person than this snappy spoilt 18 year old, who is willing to use someone he really likes as bait.

Here I really disagree he had to start here or it would not have made since in 3 for a nice guy to go bad overnight it just is impossible, it takes years for anybody to go that evil so I liked how they did. As far as the bait thing he told Obi-Wan that it was her idea, and knowing Padme she didn't give him much choice.

- One tiny thing about the romance. WHAT did Padmé see in Anakin? I couldn't ever figure this one out. This sortof falls into the point above. He is either drooling like a schoolboy or acting like a spoilt brat.

This is simple love at first sight, ala Romeo and Julliet, which was the same thing those two fell in love and there were similar things go on a civil war, Romeo committed an act of revenge so there are similarities. How close is to real life who knows, I have heard of people falling in love when they first meet, and I have heard people say they were destined to be together, it is really a romantic thing and I think Lucas was using this classic archetype for his story.

[Jedieb]

I just wish we could have seen a longer fight between Anakin and Dooku. Dooku getting a bit frustrated and going after Yoda with 2 sabers would have been great as well.

The whole Plo Koon mission was best left on the cutting room floor. It would have taken up too much time. Those characters are great as background characters, but they're not any of the big guys and most of the audience would have been wondering when the action was going to return to the main characters.

I think it would have been very effective to have Amidala show an instant attraction to Anakin when she first sees him. Then she could have shown some embarrasment and surprise when she realized the handsome young man who'd just caught her attention was none other than Anakin. Although this kind of takes me back to a TPM problem I had with Anakin being too young. If he'd been older the way Lucas ORIGINALLY intended, then there could have been some chemistry in TPM that could have carried over to the film. Unfortunately, many of the scenes that could have helped the romance were cut. All of the scenes between Padme and her family would have really fleshed out the romance better. Yeah, it's in the novel, but that doesn't help the movie. The romance wasn't as convincing as Han and Leia, but it was still pretty good IMO. Not up to the level of your solid romantic comedy or straight romance, but not bad for a SW movie.

The CGI beast riding did look unconvincing at times. A casual observer like my wife even commented about that to me without any prompting from me. "It looked fake." she said. But you know, EVERY SW film has had scenes that reminded you were looking at a movie. ANH had boxes around the Tie Fighters, in ESB you could see boxes again, the Snowspeeder cockpits were transparent, ROTJ had that black outline around the Rancor, and in TPM Jar Jar and Boss Nass looked extremely blocky at times. It's no big deal to me. I can ignore minor details like those because everything else looks so amazing. Nothing can be perfect.

One of the things I really like about AOTC is that I can spend much more time citing the positive than the negative. Hayden's performance, a Shmi scene that really paid off, R2 & 3PO return as the main dose of SW comic relief, Jango, more Mace, incredible shots of Palpy's new army, and above all else; YODA, YODA, YODA!!!! :crack :crack

[JMK]

I found it a little odd that all of a sudden Padme loved Anakin. It seemed throughout the movie that she was just patting him on the head for being a good little boy, and at other times, spurning his advances. I think she could have shown a little weakness for him. I was shocked to hear her come and just blurt it out. I know it had to happen, but it still seemed a little forced to me.

I also thought all the hype about Mace's fight was misleading. I thought he's have much more elaborate fighting scenes, and he just didn't.

And that's all I can think of for now.

[Jedieb]

I really didn't pick up on that much Mace V. Jango hype. But then again, I was REALLY trying to stay spoiler free. I was just glad Jango got taken down and having Mace do it was pretty sweet.

[JMK]

Well it wasn't so much the hype rather than people like Lucas and Jackson saying that he was going to have a killer fight scene, and I really thought Mace was going to set a new standard, until Yoda showed up of course.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by ReaperFett




- The riding cgi. While not BAD, it did seem to stand out compared to the rest. I felt the same about Maul on his bike in TPM. Aside from the DUel of the fates side shot of Anakin, something always looked "wrong". Like I said above, I attribute this more to the rest being great (Taun We's clothing was amazing, and for such an unimportant thing), but it goes down anyway

I agree. Both when Anakin attempte to ride the beast on Naboo, and the riding of the Reek on Geonosis. But, like you said, it's not necessarily that it was really bad, it's just that because everything else was so incredible, it kind of sticks out.





- The Trade Federation droid ship attack being cut. First, it involved three of my favourite Jedi, Ki-Adi Mundi, Plo Koon and Aayla Secura. But also, it made the Jedi look smarter. When Mace said to Obi "We're on to it" reguarding the droids, it made it look like they had been planning, so that the droids would be taken out. Instead, the whole lot charged dumbly into a trap.

It would have been cool to see, but I think there would have been some pacing issues if it was put in. It could have really broken up the arena battle in an awkward way.





- Mace Windu's fight. This I attribute more down to hype. There was Lucas saying he'd be winning the best fight award the eyar before. But when it got to it, it wasn't THAT good. I mean, the actual fight was basically deflect, deflect, deflect, lop off head. I do gather it was cut a bit, but it ended up a dissapointment. I mean, "Two Sabre Dude" did more than Mace did!

Agreed. The book did a much better job of demonstrating that Jango was pretty damn good, even against a Jedi. Even just a shot of him using his rocket pack (before the reek destroys it) to avoid Mace and re-position himself for a better attack, kind of like the battle with Obi-Wan, would have really helped.




- One tiny thing about the romance. WHAT did Padmé see in Anakin? I couldn't ever figure this one out. This sortof falls into the point above. He is either drooling like a schoolboy or acting like a spoilt brat.

It's a pre-ordained romance. Destiny, if you will. Part of it is simply that Padme, while she cannot explain her developing feelings for Anakin, does love him. It kind of defies any tangible reasoning, but it's there. Other the other side, Anakin knows, from the moment he first meets Padme in Watto's shop, that they will be together, somehow.



A lot of nitpicks, I suppose, but that's part of the reason we're all here, right. :) No matter what, though, it's an incredible film and a great addition to the Star Wars saga.

[ReaperFett]

The whole Plo Koon mission was best left on the cutting room floor. It would have taken up too much time. Those characters are great as background characters, but they're not any of the big guys and most of the audience would have been wondering when the action was going to return to the main characters.
I've read the shooting draft. It wasnt too long a scene really.


But you know, EVERY SW film has had scenes that reminded you were looking at a movie. ANH had boxes around the Tie Fighters, in ESB you could see boxes again, the Snowspeeder cockpits were transparent, ROTJ had that black outline around the Rancor, and in TPM Jar Jar and Boss Nass looked extremely blocky at times. It's no big deal to me. I can ignore minor details like those because everything else looks so amazing. Nothing can be perfect.

The boxes were always shields in my mind ;)

But yeah, there always is a weak area, but its still something I didnt like overall:)


I also thought all the hype about Mace's fight was misleading. I thought he's have much more elaborate fighting scenes, and he just didn't.
Yeah. The way Lucas said best fight scene, I was expecting some epic. To me, the best fight was Jango/Obi, it had so much more.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Lucas could have changed his mind about the Mace-Jango fight, its hard to say there are a lot of possibilities there. That really didn't bother me at all. As far as the CGI misuderstood you I thought you meant the swoop bike scene, still the Reek scene looked okay, the other one did look a little awkward I think it had a little bit to do with the backgrounds and stuff.

[JMK]

Yes, add the CG beast riding to my list of things I wasn't thrilled with. I didn't mind the reek, but the fat creature of Naboo was awful IMO. Oh well, it didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie at all.

[Starquest aka AndyR]

well, as far as the cut scenes go, hopefully we will have a 3 hour DVD this winter!

The one thing I do agree with is the scene at the end between mace and jango - give me more! Both of them were just bad, and there could have been alot of magic there, but it wasn't just a fight between them, so I understand the reason there wasn't more concentration on them...

[AmazonBabe]

Ok, NOW it makes sense why Plo Koon, Ki Adi Mundi, and Aayla Secura are brought back into the circle of Jedi just before Yoda shows up with the troops. Everytime i'd watch the movie, I'd wonder why the trio got seperated from the rest of the group, and why they didn't have their sabers lit up. It woulda been nice had they kept that mission in there. It probably wasn't that long ANYWAYS. Just like the fight with Dooku having to sabers against Yoda woulda been helluva lot cooler.

But I still love love love the movie (no that's not a stutter :p), and I'm gonna go see it again tonight!! :D

[imported_QuiGonJ]

Mission? What mission? What are you talking about?

Yep, I avoided trailers like the plague, so I really don't know what you are referring to.

[ReaperFett]

I'll get the script exert :)

[ReaperFett]

CUT SCENE: A MATTER ALREADY ATTENDED TO

MACE WINDU runs to the center of the arena and fights back-to-back with OBI-WAN, as they swipe and mangle DROIDS.

OBI-WAN
Someone's got to - shut down -
these droids.

MACE WINDU
Don't worry! It's being - taken
care of!

EXT. GEONOSIS, FEDERATION STARSHIP - DAY
KI-ADI-MUNDI leads a raiding party of about TWENTY JEDI through the lines of parked Battle Starships. They cut a swath through masses of DROIDS until they arrive at the Command Starship. Some JEDI fall. The rest cut their way up the ramps and into the Command Ship.

INT. COMMAND FEDERATION STARSHIP, CORRIDORS - DAY
KI-ADI-MUNDI and teh surviving JEDI fight their way through the corridors of the Command Ship, deflecting laser bolts, slicing DROIDS.

INT. COMMAND FEDERATION STARSHIP, CONTROL BRIDGE - DAY
THEY burst onto the bridge and chop down the COMMAND DROIDS. The NEIMOIDIANS flee in all directions. KE-ADI-MUNDI leans over the control panel. He locates the illuminated master switch and punches down on it. It goes dark. Instantly, all the DROIDS on the Starship and all the DROIDS in the arena FREEZE!

There is a moment of stunned silence, then the JEDI CHEER. One the bridge, PLO KOON claps KI-ADI-MUNDI on the back.

PLO KOON
We've done it! Now we have a
chance!

Suddenly, there is a harsh BEEPING SOUND. All the DROIDS on the Starship and all the DROIDS in the arena start fighting again! KI-ADI-MUNDI stares in disbelief and dismay.

KI-ADI-MUNDI
The system's off but they're still
active. That's a new feature. They
are independent of the control
system.

[JMK]

It would have been very cool to see, but you've got to admit, it's a pretty useless story point.

[ReaperFett]

It shows the Jedi planned, and that the droids had evolved:)

[JMK]

But who cares about the droids, it's all about clones now. Droids are obsolete and to continue to draw attention to them just takes away from the real story.

[ReaperFett]

yeah, but it shows that the enemy of the clones in the wars at least have half a use :)

[Lady Vader]

I still say the logner the movie the better! regardless of pouintless stuff! :p

[JMK]

I agree with that LV, if that scene was in there, I would have loved it, but since it got the boot, I think it was a good choice. I won't ever complain if they decide to stick it back in, but as far as editing goes, I think that was a good call. The thing about the droid armies is that their sheer numbers was the thing that would assure them victory. IMO, their evolution is a wasted plot point.

[ReaperFett]

So why does the clones wars last longer than about 5 weeks?

[JMK]

Who says they only fight droids? Plus, even if they do, there are a ton of droids in the galaxy. They're far faster to produce than the clones.

[ReaperFett]

But theyre useless :)

[Jedieb]

That was a good scene to cut. I agree with JMK, it's rather pointless. Throw in the fact that the mission was led by a Jedi that most of the theater doesn't really care about and you've got another reason to cut it. More isn't always better, sometimes it's just MORE. Now, if we'd gotten scenes of some of the Trade Federation ships in orbit, that might have been cool. They're mentioned, but largely ignored. I would have LOVED to have seen some of those baby Star Destroyers go up against a few Trade Federation ships. I don't even recall seeing a TF ship until Dooku's ship leaves. I think the film was helped by focusing on one major event at a time. There was no reason to repeat TPM's and ROTJ's 3 tiered endings (Final Duel/Battle on Endor/Attack on the Death Star & Final Duel/Battle on Naboo/Attack on the Droid Control Ship). I don't think many people would have been interested in learning the droids aren't controlled by one source anymore. The impression that everything was under Dooku's command was much more effective.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree Jedieb, that scene just would have been hard to work in, it would have confused the audience and it would have slowed down the pacing of the end sequence, most people didn't even notice the three jedi that were led in probably just thought they were doing something else. Now I do hope its on the DVD somewhere at least in the deleted scenes, that would be a cool scene, they may also include those Family scenes that Jedieb mentioned, and maybe some more of Jango, but we didn't get more of Darth Maul on TPM dvd so we might not get more of Jango.

[ReaperFett]

How can you not notice three Jedi led in when the camera almost closes in on them? :)



ANd in that case, why show any other Jedi fighting? Most people dont know who they are, why bother?

[Marcus Telcontar]

What I dodnt like about AOTC can be summed up in one word

PADME

Honesty, get a piece of wood and draw a face on it, the acting would be better!

I didnt really find much that wrong, except for the riding scence, yes that was ordinary.

[Jedieb]

I really like Natalie Portman, but her SW work doesn't match her other films. But I don't blame her, it's the dialogue and the style of movie that George is making. Maybe a British actress would have had an easier time of it, but I think Portman is doing the best she can with the material.

[ReaperFett]

I felt she was fine :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I liked here in the movie, she did just of a good of a job as Fisher did as Leia in the OT. Really though acting in SW has never been a great thing these movies just don't bring up the best in an actor.

[ReaperFett]

Yeah, you generally get 2-3 good performances that pull away from the rest

[Lady Vader]

Like scenes between Threepio and Artoo? I dunno about you guys, but I just love the way those two characters interact. Too funny, and quite memorable. :)

[ReaperFett]

its funny because of 3P0's reactions :)

[JMK]

I had a problem with Portman in parts of TPM, but not AotC. But I think Fisher was still the better actress as Leia.