Lightsabers [possible unmarked spoilers]

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'd always been led to believe that a lightsaber was a Jedi's personal weapon, that he/she built, etc etc...yada yada yada.

In the MOVIE, we see that Anakin goes through several different lightsabers. In the Geonosian battle scene, Obi Wan and Anakin are thrown spare sabers by the other Jedi... etc etc.

My real question is: which saber is the one that Luke eventually gets in ANH? Obi Wan says that it is his father's lightsaber...but which one of Anakin's sabers was it? Or perhaps he'll build one in the next movie.

I kept trying to look at the sabers, to see if I could recognize the one Luke eventually gets. I thought maybe it was the first one we see him using, but I can't remmeber enough to be sure.

[Hunk]

None of the ones we see in AOTC is the one Obi Wan pulls out of that dusty ol' crate and gives to Luke. We can only assume he bulids a new one in the next movie (post-Vaderising, of course).

As for the link between the jedi and his lightsaber, I don't think we're ever specifically told that only jedi use them. It certainly doesn't seem like force ability is needed to wield one, as Han uses Luke's to slice open the stink-beast. (Though you probably *do* need either force bility and/or a lot of practice to use one effectively in combat)

[Rama]

The first one was desgined to resemble the one Obi-Wan gives Luke. And it does look a lot like it with a few minor missing details......but Anakin's Saber was destroyed. I think the only reason that happened was so Anakin wouldn't have 2 blue sabers in the final battle........sorta like the only reason Luke's Saber was green in ROTJ was so it'd be easier to see against the sand.

[Nupraptor]

Without the Force, using a lightsabre in combat is more dangerous to the wielder than to the opponent.

It doesn't take the Force to push a little red button on one's hilt, though. :p

[Hunk]

You kids and your gaudy red buttons; slider boxe activaters are the way to go.

[Rama]

Those just get in the way........limts where you can put your hands. :p :lol

[Hunk]

What? Do you feel the need to do some fancy spinny baton twirling move like Obi-Wan?

[darth_mcbain]

I don't think the issue is that only a Jedi can use a lightsabre. I think it is just a philosophy that a Jedi is supposed to build their own lightsaber as part of their training - it is supposed to be a special weapon for them. (Kind of like in Full Metal Jacket - "there are many like it - but this is mine")

That said though, I don't see any reason why, when the need arises, they can't use another saber. If that was the case, then Obi-Wan could never have used Qui-Gon's saber against Darth Maul - and Anakin and Obi-Wan would have been defenseless in the Arena...

[Rama]

Originally posted by Hunk
What? Do you feel the need to do some fancy spinny baton twirling move like Obi-Wan?

Uhhhhhhhhhh Yes. :lol

[Nupraptor]

That said though, I don't see any reason why, when the need arises, they can't use another saberIn the comics, Mace Windu and Ki Adi Mundi switched lightsabres for a period of several years, as a show of trust amongst each other.

[Darth_Ytnom]

What comic? it says on starwars.com that Mace Windu's old blue saber was a give from Jedi Eath Koth, he then returns it to him to create his Purple saber.


Quoted from www.starwars.com

I recently saw the picture of Mace Windu and his new lightsaber in the Insider. Why is it different from the blue lightsaber he had for Episode I? And what's the story about his lightsaber changing?
This is the third lightsaber Mace Windu has been seen bearing since the introduction of his character. His latest blade can easily be explained by the amount of time which passes in between episodes -- surely in the ten years that pass between The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, an event occurred which necessitated a change in weaponry. That event has yet to be told.



A less fantastic explanation exists for the first two lightsabers that Mace Windu wore for The Phantom Menace. When it came time for actor Samuel L. Jackson to pose for a publicity shot, the lightsaber he specifically requested was not available. When that image was republished, the correct lightsaber was composited onto Mace Windu's belt.
In the Star Wars ongoing comic series, this discrepancy is explained by Mace and fellow Jedi Master Eeth Koth participating in a Jedi tradition called the Concordance of Fealty. "Master Eeth Koth, I have something to return to you," says Windu. "It is a product of your own hands which you once entrusted to mine. In returning this lightsaber, I return your trust." So the weapon that Windu is seen carrying in that publicity still is actually Eeth Koth's.

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/jocasta/askjc20011119.html (http://)

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

It is actually pretty funny to see how many lightsabers Anakin and Obi-Wan are going through in these movies.

[JMK]

I thought the exact same thing. It's crazy! Also, where did those younglings get theirs? I'm sure 6 year olds aren't crafting their own lightsabers. Maybe the adults build for the kids. Awww how cute.

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

Haha!

I like how some of the younglings aren't even pretending to wave their lightsabers.

I imagine that the Jedi have quite a backup storage of lightsabers, both for those who can't make their own yet and for those who need a quick backup.

[JMK]

I know they're kids, but they really didn't look like they knew what they were doing. They looked very much like they were told "you have to imagine that something is there shooting at you and you're stopping the lasers with your lightsaber, ok?" Yes I know, they're young, so I'll cut them a break. This time. ;)

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

I suppose - POSSIBLY - that this was their first day with lightsabers for some of them, and that they didn't know what to do with them other than how to turn them on and off and do not touch the pretty shiny lightsaber blade.

Thus I'll cut them some slack, too... I guess. :) Dangit, I would gladly have stood on my knees and waved a tiny lightsaber around for FREE and done a great bit part for George, but noooo... he must use REAL CHILDREN. Heck, he could have CGed them all. ;)

Imagine if Obi-Wan and Anakin had accidently been tossed youngling lightsabers in the arena.

[JMK]

I wonder what good it would have been to them. Maybe they'd be better off just throwing the hilt at their targets!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

:lol!


I don't think the issue is that only a Jedi can use a lightsabre. I think it is just a philosophy that a Jedi is supposed to build their own lightsaber as part of their training - it is supposed to be a special weapon for them. (Kind of like in Full Metal Jacket - "there are many like it - but this is mine")

Thats what I meant. I mean, for training purposes I imagine the sabers used are not made by the bearers. But is it a mark of a Jedi Knight (not a Padawan) to have built their own saber?

Luke did not build his first saber, it was given to him. He lost it on Bespin, and the NEXT saber he has he built himself. And he is a Jedi Knight then, not just a learner.

I'm curious as to when we'll see Anakin's saber that Obi Wan ends up with. Perhaps after the infamous last duel that comes up in III Obi Wan ends up with Anakin's saber?

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

I like the "Knights build their own lightsabers" theory.

Although, technically, no one's calling Luke a Jedi Knight after he makes his new lightsaber who's ever KNOWN a Jedi Knight until he meets back up with Yoda in RotJ. Yoda and Obi-Wan don't call Luke a Jedi in ESB. ...They don't in RotJ, either, but Yoda does tell him that he requires no more training... but he must confront Vader. "Only then, a Jedi will you be."

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, he built it before he was a Knight...so to speak. He isn't called a Jedi Master until the EU. RotJ is called the Return for obvious reasons. Its when he "becomes."

I figure that being able to build your own saber is a big part of being ready to take the tests to advance to knighthood.

[Ognaj Fett]

I've extensively red the YJK Series, so I know that biulding a Lightsaber is one of the rights of passage a young Jedi must take.
Bad things happen if done to early and incorectly.
One girl from Dathomir got her arm blown off because of a faulty lightsaber.

[darth_mcbain]

I figured that the kids lightsabers were just a stock of lightsabers that year after year of kids go through. Kind of like those gym clothes they make you wear in junior high school when you forget your own. :)

[Righ Gan Fang]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
:lol!


But is it a mark of a Jedi Knight (not a Padawan) to have built their own saber?

Luke did not build his first saber, it was given to him. He lost it on Bespin, and the NEXT saber he has he built himself. And he is a Jedi Knight then, not just a learner.



Well, remember, in ROTJ, when Luke surrenders to the Imperial patrol on Endor, and is brought before Vader, Darth inspect's Lukes saber and remarks something to the effect of 'You have constructed your own lightsaber, your training is complete'.

I have always had the impression that it is one of the final steps in Jedi training to build your own Saber. I think it is more symbolic of your mastery of the force, since the impression is given that it is quite a dangerous undertaking to build one successfully. In one of the books, it mentions that Luke built several bfore ROTJ. The first trials ended in failure (I do realize full well that the EU can, and most likely will, be contradicted by the films at any opportunity).

Just my theory!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

His training as a padawan, perhaps? Yoda said he would be a Jedi after he faced Darth Vader...

I guess I always figured it was one of the final *padawan* steps they took. Mebbe I'm wrong...


I am never wrong!

:p

[Righ Gan Fang]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
His training as a padawan, perhaps? Yoda said he would be a Jedi after he faced Darth Vader...



Luke didn't get the padawan style of training. He got a rather drastic crash course in being a Jedi.

And, yes, Yoda did say say he would be a Jedi after he faced Vader. Yoda was correct.

Keep in mind that in E I and E II they refer to the trials, or tests that an apprentice Jedi must go through before he is conferred with the rank of Jedi Knight. I am sure that building a lightsaber is only one part of these tests.

For Obi Wan, it was facing Darth Maul (I infer from the film, but it makes mention of it in the novelization of E I that the council elevated him with out the standard tests, having proven his abilities Vs. a Sith)

For Luke, it was facing Vader. Vader knows how a Jedi is trained, and may just have assumed that Luke completed his training. The only ones who would know for sure would be Luke, Yoda, and the Ghost of Obi Wan.

But the original question I replied to was whether or not building a lightsaber was part of a Jedi's 'Rite of Passage' into Knighthood. Leaving the question of 'when did Luke truely become a Jedi Knight' aside, The evidence is there in the films to infer "yes, lightsaber building is a final step (one of possibly many) in a Jedi's training".

Now, when did Luke become a Jedi Knight? I think it was the moment that Darth Vader committed himself to tossing the Emperor over the catwalk railing.

Does anything I am saying make any sense (I tend to ramble and confuse everyone)?

[JMK]

Kinda seems unfair doesn't it? Obi Wan gets Darth Maul while Luke gets stuck with Vader? ;)

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

Haha, yeah.

I was wondering about how Obi-Wan skipped the entire Knight level of being a Jedi. I suppose he earned it, though. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Maybe its like in college..if your roommate dies during a semester, you automatically pass your courses for that semester.

Obi Wan's Master died...so.... :p

[JMK]

Is that really a rule????

[Righ Gan Fang]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Maybe its like in college..if your roommate dies during a semester, you automatically pass your courses for that semester.

Obi Wan's Master died...so.... :p

I would hope the Jedi are a bit more practical than that.

I think was more along the lines of 'You are a Padawan, and you just beat a Sith. This Bud's for you!'

And I am also willing to bet that Obi Wan went to Disney World right after that.

And, Yes JKM, at some Universities, that is a policy. They did a movie a few years ago about a couple of Students trying to kill their roomate and make it look like a suicide. I think it was suppposed to be a comedy.

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

Yes, JMK - it is a rule. :)

I am sure Righ Gan Fang's idea is nearer the mark, though. Disney World and all.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was JOKING about that being why Obi Wan was promoted. Hence the :p However...you never know. Anyway, of course we all know that at the end of TPM Obi Wan was promoted to Knight.

We see him ten years later as a Master, and we don't know how he got that far. I think that was the real question, "When did Obi Wan become a master of the Force?"

And the answer is....It must have been when he fell into that pit of gundarks... ;)

[Zartan Fett]

Originally posted by Rama
The first one was desgined to resemble the one Obi-Wan gives Luke. And it does look a lot like it with a few minor missing details......but Anakin's Saber was destroyed. I think the only reason that happened was so Anakin wouldn't have 2 blue sabers in the final battle........sorta like the only reason Luke's Saber was green in ROTJ was so it'd be easier to see against the sand.

I wanted to go back to this at the beginning of this thread. I have spent over a year in the RPF with much information concerning props from all the movies.

First, the lightsaber Anakin uses through most of the movie was NOT made to resemble the one Obi-Wan gives Luke. In fact it is almost identical and purposely so, to Darth Vader's lightsaber from ANH. The Anakin saber has a silver shroud, a brass knob, two LEDs and smaller grips to name a few. There is also a different saber for Vader in each of the classic trilogy as well.

Now, since Anakin's saber and Obi-Wan's saber were both destroyed or lost in AOTC, we can now assume that Anakin will build the saber given to Luke by Obi-Wan in ANH which was made from a Graflex Camera Flashgun(which I am a proud owner of a real one) and that Obi-Wan will build one like the one he uses in ANH. Luke/Anakin's saber from ANH changes in ESB as well. Then in ROTJ Luke builds a saber after his master Obi-wan. Most Jedi will create a saber in the likeness of their master's. In EP1/EP2 Obi-wan's saber which he re-built in AOTC is similar to Qui-Gon's. Its all pretty crazy.

I could talk for hours about the sabers. Even the changes from EP1 to EP2 for the Jedi Council...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

ooooooh. You are SMRT. Thanks, that was helpful to me.

I didn't realize the sabers were different in every film. I wonder how they explain that? I guess a saber isn't as personal a weapon as I'd previously thought, if the don't make one, and keep it forever and use only that one (unless it gets chopped in half...tough luck Ani! :p).

[Righ Gan Fang]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
We see him ten years later as a Master, and we don't know how he got that far. I think that was the real question, "When did Obi Wan become a master of the Force?"


According to the literature (I know, I keep referencing the books, and that they and the info presented can be rendered null and void at any given time), a Jedi Master is a Jedi who has a Padawan.

[Zartan Fett]

Originally posted by Righ Gan Fang


According to the literature (I know, I keep referencing the books, and that they and the info presented can be rendered null and void at any given time), a Jedi Master is a Jedi who has a Padawan.

Well all but one of the Jedi Masters in the Council do not have Padawans. A Jedi Master is above a Jedi Knight.

[Righ Gan Fang]

Yes, and according to the novelization (actually, a number of sources) of Episode I, Ki Adi Mundi is the only member of the council who is not a Jedi Master, only a Knight. And He seems to be more influential than every one else on the council, with the exception of Mace Windu and Yoda. After all, he does have diolougue.

I believe the term is extended to any Jedi who had or has a padawan learner, past or present.

Unless, of course, things have changed since Episode I (which is entirely possible). But all of the associated literature I read from Ep I supports the idea that a Jedi Master is one who is currently, or has in the past, been an instructor to a Padawan.

[Zartan Fett]

Well Obi-Wan is not a Jedi Master in AOTC but still a Jedi Knight and he has a Padawan. Ki-Adi Mundi was a Kedi Knight in TPM and had a Padawan. He is now a Jedi Master in AOTC. I'm not sure what your point is.

[Righ Gan Fang]

Originally posted by Zartan Fett
I'm not sure what your point is.

Since I seem to be confusing you:

"Unless, of course, things have changed since Episode I (which is entirely possible). But all of the associated literature I read from Ep I supports the idea that a Jedi Master is one who is currently, or has in the past, been an instructor to a Padawan."

From my last post, that pretty much sums my point up.

And, out of curiousity, since I have not read anything related to Star Wars since I saw Epidsode one, where did the info on the Jedi Council and their Padawans (or lack thereof), and their status as Master/Knight come from?

Finally, Ms. De'Ville is also under the impression that Obi Wan is a Jedi Master in ATOC, Since she and I have a differing idea than you, I would like to find out where she heard that. I made an assumption based on what I read a few years back.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Obi wan is not a Jedi Master. He is a Jedi Knight in AOTC. The majority of Jedi are Knights and there are in fact very, very few true Masters. The rank of Jedi Master has nothing to do with training Padawans. Most of the Jedi Masters are in fact on the Council, which will give you an idea how few there really are. It's the reason Qui Gon could have been on the Council, he is a Master. From my understanding, there should be no Knights on the Council. Now given there are 10,000 Jedi in the time of AOTC, that pretty much also shows how few Jedi Masters there are.

[Zartan Fett]

Thanks Marcus! That's what I was going to say next.

[Sage Hazzard]

Obi-Wan isn't a Master. It says so in the AOTC novel. Something about how he's only a Knight, not yet a Master.

[Righ Gan Fang]

Then there has been a change, from what I have read back when E I was released.

I try to use the novels and other supporting literature to fill in what we do not know from what is on screen. But, as i said numerous times, the literature can, and usually will, be contradicted by the films, or even other novels.

Aside from the Episode two novelization, where else is this supported?

[Marcus Telcontar]

The movie as well hints he is not a Jedi Master. He is referred to a Master Jedi (which is the correct title for a Jedi Knight who trains others) and he is mistakenly referred to as Jedi Master on Kamino. Plsu of course in Ep IV, Obi Wan refers to himself as a Jedi Knight.

As far as I am concerned, the novelisation is one step dwon in canon level from the movies themselves, because I could quite well imagine Lucas had a great guiding hand in those and made sure they suited him. The EU, I dont think he reads and it was stated by Zahn that Lucas could do what he wanted and contradict anything in the EU he wants.

Personally, the AOTC novelisation makes a real deal of sense. A Jedi Master is a being of supreme skill and knowledge of the Force and the title should reflect that.

[Righ Gan Fang]

Well, I rarely even look at the EU. I tend to stick with the novelizations, and other 'sourcebooks (ie- visual dictionary). I know full well that The Lucas contradicts the books at whim.

After all, at one point Owen Lars was Anakins brother, then Obi Wans brother, and now Anikins step-brother. The Obi Wan/Owen Lars connection was cited in several 'Official Lucas' books. Which means, apparently, not much.

[Saarrreeaa Meorrrei]

I think I was confused with the "Master Jedi" stuff...and other people told me he was a Master.

It made more SENSE for him to still be a Knight. :)