Why cant Yoda sense Darth Sidious...

[Darth_Ytnom]

Why cant Yoda sense Darth Sidious when he is two feet away from him??? Could it be a clone of him??? Or is Sidios just one powerful mofo of a Sith?

[JMK]

We really don't know yet for sure. It's either one of the reasons you mentioned, or that because the Jedi's ability to use the force is diminished and they can't see much anymore.

[darth_mcbain]

A friend of mine was making an analogy, which I thought was interesting. He was saying that seeing the Dark Side is like seeing in infrared. If the Light Side was more powerful, then perhaps it would have been easier to see Sidious as he would stand out, but the Dark Side is becoming very powerful. Sidious just blends in with the darkness around him - masking his presence. "The Dark Side clouds everything"

I think that might be part of it - I think the other part is that Sidious is just really powerful and has excellent control over the Force, enough so to mask his presence.

[JMK]

That's a pretty good argument for the time frame of AotC, but what about TPM? The dark side is alot less powerful in TPM, but they still can't see him. Sidious would have been much more visible in TPM because the he can't blend in to the rest of the darkness. I like to think that Sidious can just hide his presence really well. But I do like your friend's analogy of it, I just don't think it holds up well over the span of both movies.

[darth_mcbain]

Yeah, you're right... Unless the Dark Side was growing in TPM and the Jedi either didn't realize it or didn't want to admit it. Mace says "I do not think the Sith could have arisen without our knowing it" to which Yoda replies "Difficult to see, the Dark Side is". That might imply that the Dark Side was growing in TPM, but the Jedi couldn't see it, and that may have helped mask Palpatine. I don't know - I'm stretching here...

I think it comes down to what we are both saying - that Palpatine has excellent control over the Force and can keep his dark presence hidden.

[Darth_Ytnom]

Interesting info I read on starwars.com, check it out,


No one is quite sure how Palpatine was first introduced to the power of the dark side. He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times. He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.

To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts.

Although Palpatine called for the extermination of the Jedi and any Force-sensitives who could conceivably challenge him, he did keep a few loyal agents who were trained in the Force. Darth Vader was chief among them, as his primary lieutenant and Sith apprentice. Palpatine also had a string of loyal, deadly agents referred to as his "Hands." Mara Jade was foremost among these dedicated enforcers.

At the Battle of Endor, Palpatine found himself facing death yet again. Betrayed by Vader, Palpatine's body was destroyed aboard the second Death Star. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take residence in his clone body. He barely survived Darth Vader's treachery. Palpatine remained sequestered at Byss while he rebuilt his strength, and his Empire.

Palpatine's rule was so absolute that his apparent death at Endor fragmented the Empire. With no obvious heir, opportunistic moffs and warlords set out to carve their own private fiefdoms where they could. Years of infighting worked to the advantage of the fledgling New Republic, who proceeded to reclaim three-fourths of the galaxy. One warlord who succeeded where imitators failed was Grand Admiral Thrawn, the only non-human to hold that rank. His cunning tactics and unerring strategies brought the Empire to the brink of victory five years after the Battle of Endor. Only a last minute betrayal spelled his defeat.

Spurred on by Thrawn's victories, the remaining Inner Circle of Imperial warlords staged a devastating attack on Coruscant. Whereas Thrawn sought to take the capital world intact, these Imperials attacked without compunction. Much of Imperial City was laid waste by the fighting, and the New Republic was forced to evacuate. Once on the surface, the Imperials splintered yet again, and skirmishes dragged on in amongst the ruined skyscrapers.

It was then that the resurrected Palpatine struck. Using his dark powers to invoke a Force storm of great magnitude, Palpatine swept Jedi Master Luke Skywalker to Byss. There, he revealed himself to Skywalker, and unveiled the true strength of the dark side. Faced with an immortal enemy, Skywalker did the unthinkable -- in order to defeat the dark side from within, Skywalker knelt before Palpatine, and declared himself his new apprentice. In these dark times, it seemed the Emperor had finally won.

Skywalker was too enmeshed in darkness to successfully rebel against his master. Although he sabotaged some of Palpatine's military ventures -- namely those involving immense war factories called World Devastators -- he still could do not draw himself from the pall of the dark side. It was only his sister, Leia Organa Solo, that gave him the extra strength he needed. With her presence, the two Skywalker twins were able to temporarily repulse Palpatine.

Unabated, the Emperor continued his scourge. Armed with an incredible new superweapon, the Galaxy Gun, Palpatine forced numerous New Republic worlds to capitulate to Imperial rule. Despite his growing Empire, Palpatine was again growing frail. His clones were failing him. He needed new blood. Palpatine targeted Leia's newborn son, Anakin Solo, as the next receptacle for his dark spirit. During an attempt to possess the child, Han Solo shot the ailing Palpatine in the back. Before his soul could enter Anakin's body, Palpatine was intercepted by a newfound Jedi, Empatojayos Brand. Cut off from a host body, Palpatine's essence dissipated, to be consumed by the madness that is the dark side. After so many years of bloodshed, the Emperor was truly dead.

[darth_mcbain]

Interesting, yes... But remember that is all stuff which originated in the Expanded Universe, so it can be contradicted at will by the movies...

[Rama]

Yeah......most of that happened in Dark Empire.

[Doc Milo]

And Dark Empire was horrible!

[Jedieb]

Without wanting to get into a whole EU debate, I think it's pretty clear Lucas has his OWN idea of where the clones have come from, and how Palpatine has used them. When that EU stuff was written Lucas probably didn't even have the words Naboo or Senator Palpatine from Naboo written on paper. An outline is one thing, planet names and script details are another. I think Palpy does have the ability to hide his powers from the Jedi Council. Also, we still haven't seen Palpy draw on the Force, not even ONCE! I think Palpatine's greatest strength is his political and intellectual powers. We've seen him manipulate others, but we've yet to see him call on the Force to do a single thing. Hopefully, he'll give some kind of explanation to someone about how he's been able to right under the Jedi's noses all this time in EP3. I think he'll reveal himself to someone like Mace or Yoda, but not to the galaxy at large. I think to the galaxy he'll just be Emperor Palpatine. They'll never even hear the name Darth Sidious.

[JMK]

Isn't masking his presence in itself a use of the force? It's not like he's wearing an asbestos force-proof suit! :lol

Isn't there a saying somewhere or a proverb that says keeping oneself scarce or maintaining anonymity is the greatest trick of all?

[darth_mcbain]

The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist...

I think that holds for Palpatine as well...

[Jedieb]

Bingo McBain! JMK's got a point. He may actually be using a Dark Side Force Power of Supression. Good grief, I can't believe I just typed DSFPoS...:rolleyes

[JMK]

Thanks McBain! That's what I meant!