Why does Yoda need a ....

[Jedieb]

"Why does Yoda need a cane?" My wife asked me this after seeing AOTC. It's a good question when you consider he looked like he could kick the crap out of Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Van Damm, and Steven Segal if they all ganged up on him and had the best day of their lives. I think it all has to do with his "mastery" of the Force. Think about, Palpatine, Dooku, and Yoda are all decrepit fossils that look like they pop more Viagra and Metamusil they Rosie and Oprah chug Diet Coke. So how come they kick more butt than anyone in the SW universe? Why do they beat the crap out of all the youung stud? ROTJ Luke, AOTC Obi-Wan and AOTC Anakin all get worked over. These guys are in their PHYSICAL prime. If Anakin has more Force potential than even Yoda they how can Dooku chop his arm off without breaking after a sweat? How can Dooku toy with Obi-Wan? Didn't Obi-Wan go toe to toe with the freakish physica speciman that was Maul? How bad is Palpatine if Maul is his INFERIOR apprentice?

I take you back to the "mastery" of the Force. When Yoda summons the power of the Force IT guides and moves his body. His limp no longer hinders him because it's not his muscles that are propelling his body, it the power of the Force. Dooku is anywhere from 70-85 years old. How can he fight so relentlessly? How can he be quicker and deadlier than young men in their prime? His body is guided and powered by the Force. He has had DECADES to master it. I believe TIME is essential to "mastery" of the Force. If it wasn't, then Anakin would have defeated Dooku. Yoda, Dooku, and Sidous all have tremendous Force potential, but it's critical that they've had years to master the Force. As strong as Dooku is, he would have been abouse by Yoda or even Obi-Wan if his 20 year old self had taken on those two Jedis.

The Dark Side alone does not account for Dooku's strenght. Look at Yoda, his Force Lightning skills were not the result of the Dark Side, they were the result of his "Mastery" of the Force. (Please do not mention Force Lightning use in the EU. I think they've screwed that up big time. AOTC Yoda showed it's not a Dark Side power, it's an ADVANCED power available to those who have an incredible "mastery" of the Force. Someone like Jaina has NO business using it. But they're working without knowing the whole story so you can't blame them, they try.)

Basically, Yoda uses a cane because using the Force when his own muscles can propel him is a sense an abuse of the Force. The Force should be used when it's necessary, not convienient. What do ya think?

[JMK]

Sounds good, very plausible, but if that were the case, shouldn't a supposed 60 year old Qui Gon, who was deemed as one of the greatest swordmen, trained by none other than Dooku himself have handed Maul his keister? Qui Gon would have also had decades of time to master the force, much in the same way that Dooku has. Also, shouldn't Obi Wan have had a better fight vs Vader? I know Kenobi wasn't exactly expecting to beat Vader as much as he was buying time for the others to escape the Death Star, but still.

[Jedieb]

I would say that TIME is critical, but not a guarantee of "mastery" of the Force. Not every old guy is going to beat the stuffing out of young Jedi punks. But, old guys who do have "mastery" of the Force did not achieve it UNTIL they had TIME to master it. As for the ANH Vader Obi-Wan duel, they were BOTH older. Plus, Vader had some things going for him, Dark Side Agression, and Kenobi was in a no win situation. Remember, Vader did not win until Obi-Wan raised his saber and gave up. Obi-Wan knew Luke wouldn't leave him behind so he HAD to give. Up until then their battle was a standoff. Seeing Luke, Han, and Leia is what prompted Obi-Wan to give up, he hadn't lost yet.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Obi-Wan had been away along time stranded on Tattooine and didn't really have any way to use the force and I think that weakened his abilities, as far as Qui-Gon I think Maul just wore him out and that is why he lost. He actually handled himself pretty good until the end, it was just a long duel and that is partly why he lost.

[JMK]

True, but there was no way he was ever going to win, unless Vader's lightsaber batteries died. It's one thing to engage in a fight and fight to defend and survive and fight to win. Let's focus more on the Qui Gon/Maul fight...;)

[Jedieb]

As good as Qui-Gon was, I don't think he was as powerful as Maul, Mace, Yoda, or Dooku, or Palpy. I think these are clearly the best of the best. I compare it to baseball. Any major league player is a great baseball player, especially if you compare him to guys like us. But there's a difference between Barry Bonds and someone like Brady Anderson. Both are Major Leaguers, but only one of them is a Hall of Famer. Qui-Gon is a cool character, and we all love him, but maybe he just isn't as powerful as those other guys and never would have been, no matter how long he had lived.

[JMK]

Less powerful than he was reputed to be?;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Maul was pretty tough though, the only way Obi-Wan won was because he got arrogant otherwise Maul would have won.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Maul was arrogant and too sure of himself, too flashy. Dooku was more considered and thoughful, which is the big difference.

Now, I might also point out that in martial arts, esp Tai Chu, the real masters are old. Some look frail. But they would hand yer ass back to you. It's not just how powerful, it's how you use it.

Obi Wan got lucky with Maul. Dooku on the other hand was all substance, which is why he gave Obi Wan a right butt whipping.

[Shawn]

Re: Yoda using Force Lightening -

Actually, I thought he was using the Force Absorb power. Being a Roleplayer, my character has used it in the past. Everything I've read states that a Jedi Master who can use Force Absorb would be able to withstand a blast of Force Lightening without breaking a sweat.

The problem is that they need to immediately release all of this energy; to channel it somewhere else. It would be possible to allow it to harmlessly shoot off into the sky, or - in this case - redirect it back at its caster. I'm fairly confident that Yoda simply absorbed Dooku's lightening and reflected it back at him.

[Sage Hazzard]

Yes. Just like how Vader absorbed Han's shots, then ripped the blaster from his hands.

The reason Qui-Gon lost is because he uses the "Living Force" solely. The Living Force is living in the moment and not planning ahead. I'm reading "Cloak of Deception" now and it points out that Qui-Gon uses the Living Force while sabre fighting, and it goes into the aspects of the Living Force. It basically means, he wasn't planning ahead and seeing what Maul was going to do. He was just going with the flow. So when Maul caught him off guard, he was toast. Which also might be why he didn't turn into dust like Yoda and Obi-Wan. Also, the Force might of destined him to die, so that's why his blind, force guided actions were leading to his demise.

Also, Obi-Wan uses the Unifying Force alot. Which is why Qui-Gon has to remind him constantly to use the Living Force, and stay in the moment. Of course, that's just Qui-Gon's view. That's why you see that twinkle in his eye when he see Qui-Gon's sabre. He formulates a plan through the Force, and foresees the many possibilities of what will occur.

Small Off-Hand note. Tarkin's in Cloak of Deception. :)

[JonathanLB]

You just reminded me, EB, of how cool it would be if we DID get to see Darth Sidious/Palpatine fight in Episode III. Oh. My. God.

Especially after seeing his character in 4 of the 5 films so far, we feel like we know him well, we know his rise to power, we know his absolute evil, but if we got to see him duel, now that would be frickin' awesome. That'd be the only way I can think of where you may be able to outdo the Yoda sequence, because if it were nice and long, one fantastic battle, that could be extremely awesome.

[ReaperFett]

Arthritus he has. Hurt come winter his fight will

[Garrett Blade]

I think it's all a deception. A masquerade. Yoda is hiding his power from others. Nobody except Dooku saw Yoda's abilities. And before Padme and the troops arrive, Yoda grabs his stick and resumes his limp. Why? I think he wants to hide his true power, so that he sees what people really think of him, rather than have a bunch of suckass's grovelling before him.

[Shawn]

Garrett:That seemed like a logical assumption. However, what about Obi Wan's line towards the beginning of the movie:

"If you spent as much time practicing your serving techniques as you do your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman."

"I thought I already did."

"Only in your mind, my very young apprentice."

[Jedieb]

I don't believe Yoda's limp is an act. I think it's the limp of someone who's centuries old. But the limp is meaningless when Yoda uses the Force to combat Dooku. The Force propels and guides his body. Once the battle is over, Yoda quickly summons his cane and begins using it again. He uses the cane, when he could easily use the Force, because using the Force would be an abuse of it.

The whole living/unifying Force issue is something I've never put much stock in. I think it was more of a throw away line at the beginning of TPM. But, to each is own...

It looked to me like Yoda did absorb and redirect Dooku's first Force lightning attack. But at one point it looked as if Yoda was unleashing a few bolts himself. There's something to look for in subsequent viewings. :D

[Doc Milo]

Jedieb, it looked to me that Yoda absorbed the force lightning and sent it back in the first instance, then merely released it more quickly as Dooku shot a continuous stream at him, so it was almost as if he was reflecting it back. Notice when Yoda reflects the Force lightning back at Dooku after the first shot, Dooku then repels that bolt and sends it off into the cieling. Then he shoots a continuous stream at Yoda, and Yoda reflects it out -- some of it back at Dooku, but most of it goes off to the sides and into the walls. The Dooku's last bit of force lightning is totally absorbed by Yoda without him releasing the energy. At no time in that sequence did I think Yoda was doing anything but defending himself from the force lightning by repelling it; I never go the sense that he was shooting it himself.

[Jedieb]

Doc, I just finished the novelization and it supports the notion that Yoda onlly deflected the lightning. Again, it's definitely something to look for. I still don't think Force lightning should be solely a Dark Side power. I don't see it as any different than a Force push or using a lightsaber to decapitate someone. Especially if you're battling someone who can use Force lightning as well. Also, what's more humane, shocking someone into unconsciousness with Force lightning, or severing one of their limbs with a lightsaber?

[Domini Leveresk]

Another thing to add might be that where Qui-Gon is 60, Yoda is almost 900. The dark side is the shortcut, but in the long, long run, Yoda caught up.

[darth_mcbain]

I disagree, EB. I was reading in the Ep. II Visual Dictionary and it said that Dooku uses Sith lightning - a power which the Jedi have no real equivalent for. I'm paraphrasing, but it would seem that this is a Dark Side power only.

And Garrett, I agree somewhat with your assessment, not so much that Yoda wants to see what others truly feel about him, but that he is just modest and doesn't feel the need to prove himself. He knows his worth and that is enough for him. When he isn't tapping the Force, he needs his cane to help him walk. If he were prideful or arrogant, he would use the Force to help him move without a cane, but he realizes that that is a misuse of the Force and he isn't ashamed to use the cane.

[JMK]

It also maintains the illusion that he is frail and weak and is of no use in battle, except to give orders.