The Power of the Dark Side [masked spoilers]

[Jedieb]

The Dark Side of the Force has grown strong in AOTC. I'm not just referring to Dooku's incredible power. What he did to Obi-Wan and Anakin far surpassed what Maul was able to do in TPM. The Dark Side, IMO, has literally grown and is starting to dominate the ENTIRE galaxy. Palpy/Sidious has become so strong that he's been able to amass incredible amounts of power, right under the noses of the Jedi Council! The balance of the Force has been tipped in favor of the Dark Side. The Jedi are actually becoming weaker in the Force as Palpatine and Dooku's power increases. Yoda and Mace have a conversation that provides the basis for my observation. You guys know the one I'm talking about.

I don't think that it's simply that Sidious and Tyrranus are more powerful than say Yoda and Mace. I believe that the Dark Side has grown to the point where the balance of the Force has been tipped in it's favor. Sidious and Tyrranus are part of something much larger and more sinister than just two old guys who can shoot Force lightning. Yoda can do that. It's bigger than that. Evil is growing in the galaxy, and its instruments are the Sith.
Thoughts?

[Darth23]

Can't we just make this a spoiler thread and eliminate the need to highlight everything?

[Jedieb]

I think we'll just end up removing many of the spoiler tags in about a week or so. After that people will just have to be very careful about which threads they visit. I don't mind the spoiler tags, I know I appreciated them these past few weeks.

[Champion of the Force]

I have to agree with D23 though - considering this entire thread is going to be involving spoilers it kind of sucks having to constantly mask spoilers all the time when a simple 'spoilers inside' would suffice. Hopefully though in a week or so we'll be able to stop using them entirely when the remainder of the board have seen the film. :)

As for your statement yes I agree with your observations on the whole. Clearly the statement made back in TPM over The Chosen One suposed to be bringing balance back to the Force (which is reiterated in the film too) now makes a lot more sense in the present climate.

Clearly there is a lot of power-hungry and/or dissatisfied people and groups in the galaxy now - how else could Dooku have been organising a seperatist movement? This is the way in which the Sith are returning to power as you said - by riding on the backs of everyone else.

[Master Yoghurt]

I agree, the Dark Side grows stronger. IMO, despite what some might think it is not Anakin that throws the Force off balance, but Sideous/Palpatine. Anaking brings balance to the Force at the end of ROTJ when he defeats the Emperor and redeems himself

[Darth Lynch]

Based on the novel these are my thoughts on the matter.

It has been stated the force flows through all living things, it could be that as the galaxy began to fall or become a more dangerous or corrupt place the force began to change reflecting this. Dark side users gained in power/ability while the Jedi who were light began to loose their connection to the foce that appeared to alert them to all things once.

The more corrupt the galaxy got the more power the dark side got and the lesser the Jedi became. It could be said that as hope became to come back around the time of ANH that the light side began to grow in power again that gave the Emperor a lack of focus that resulted in his flawed view of the future where he had before arisen to power so greatly.

It might have simple been that the Emperor had like the Jedi once been become too complacent in his role/success and when the winds of change began to blow they had already begun to loose the connection with the force that had given the power to begin with.

Just a thought:)

[Jedieb]

I like Lynch's observations on how the balance of the Force may have tipped back and forth from film to film. The Emperor may have indeed lost focus towards the end of ROTJ the way the Jedi have apparently started to lose focus in AOTC. What I find interesting is that the balance doesn't seem to be focused on one particulary individual. It seems as if ALL of the Jedi are being affected.

yes I agree with your observations on the whole. Clearly the statement made back in TPM over The Chosen One suposed to be bringing balance back to the Force (which is reiterated in the film too) now makes a lot more sense in the present climate.


I noticed that as well. Many lines and scenes from TPM take on greater significance after seeing AOTC. As for the spoiler tags, I find them a chore as well, but I'm willing to use them to help people avoid spoilers. If I can add a spoiler warning to the title I will.

[darth_mcbain]

Yes - I was thinking the exact same thing as I watched the movie. Especially where Palpatine asks Yoda's opinion and Yoda says "The Dark Side clouds everything." It is a testament to Palpatine that amongst the elite Jedi, he can continue to keep his dark side presence hidden. The more I think about it though, I feel that it not necessarily just Sidious and Tyranus. True they are the only Dark Lords, but their evil is spreading, and it is poisoning the galaxy.

[Figrin D'an]

I completely agree with that assessment. As the galaxy becomes more corrupt and more unscrupulous, the Dark Side grows in potency. The Dark Side is not only clouding everything, as Yoda says, it's literally leaching away the power of the Light Side. I don't know about all of you, but sends shivers down my spine...


One also has to ask, however... just how powerful is Palpatine that he can hide his true power from a room full of Jedi Masters?! The balance being shifted towards te Dark Side no doubt helps Palpatine in this, but still... he has to be emmensely strong with the Force, especially considering how powerful Dooku appears to be...

One gets the feeling that Yoda is starting to suspect Palpatine of something, though... there is that brief scene that shows Yoda looking at the Chancellor in a cautious and inquisitive manner... Yoda knows something is up... that's why he made the comment at the end of the film about "Begun this clone war has." He knows that what they experienced on Geonosis is only the beginning...

[Jedieb]

Just how powerful is Palpy? Both Maul and Dooku call him "Master." There's something that should send chills down your spine. It may be that Palpy's power rivals even that of Yoda. It may even surpass it, which would explain why Yoda never tried to take down Palpy in the years between EP3 and ANH. My god, how powerful do have to be to have a bad mofo like Dooku call you Master!

[Jedi Master Carr]

This is an interesting thread hopefully we will see how powerful Palpatine is in EP 3 maybe he will kill Mace Windu and we see his full power. I do think Yoda and the others suspect something especially with Dooku's revelation

[darth_mcbain]

I had wondered this as well, because we obviously see how powerful Yoda is in Ep. II (we knew he was powerful, but it is really reinforced). However, as powerful as Yoda is, he is dead serious about warning Luke to not underestimate the powers of the Emperor. I'm thinking in the next episode Palpatine will be revealed and we will see just how powerful he is.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Say in a clash between Yoda and Palpatine?

[Jedieb]

Yoda V. Palpy is a distinct possibility. I also think we'll see a much more powerful Anakin. His power may increase in the same manner that Luke's did from ESB to ROTJ. Dooku has to be eliminated by SOMEONE, and I don't see Mace doing it. I think Palpy may pit a Dark Side Anakin (Vader) against Dooku, to get a younger, stronger apprentice. Either way, I think we will see Palpy reveal his powers at some point. It's going to be AWESOME!

[HunterJodoKast]

Yes, Dooku is indeed very powerful to successfully duel Yoda without being turned into chop suey. Maul doesn't have a d*** thing on Tyrannus. Yoda's strength in the Force is awesome. I feel we didn't see Mace Windu's full strength and powers. And of all the Jedi, he is second only to Yoda.

Palpatine is definitely something beyond our imagining to work his sithian will right underneath the Jedi council's noses and they not even detect it. Did you all notice how pale and sickly Palpatine looked in this episode? (The darkside is already consuming him. By ROTJ, he looks like a corpse)

[Darth Lynch]

Lots of interesting views and possibilities here so lets jump into it.

Palpatine I do believe is able to mask his force signature due to the balance in the force being swayed towards his(the dark sides) favor. The Jedi as seen in EP II are all but running blind half the time and are far from the all seeing protectors they were once.

This has been the case even before EP. 1 in which Mace stated he did not believe the Sith could return with out them knowing it. Yet the Sith are right under their noses so that means Papatine is of great power beyond that which is known and able to cloak himself or as previously stated the force has diminished greatly for the Jedi.

The Emperor himself was never bested in one on one comabt. It took Vader sneaking up behind him and tossing him over the rails that did Palpatine in but Vader himself could not defeat the Emperor in direct combat which was one of the reasons why he wanted his son to join him and Vader had been more powerful or had the potential to be more powerful than Yoda as said in Ep1 than its very logical to say Palpatine is at a power that dwarfs all others if Vader himself could not take him.

The situation of Vader killing Dooku is an interesting one and would fit in with ROTJ where Luke was suppose to kill Vader and take over from him. Such a thing in the third instalement of the prequels would fit in nicely and form a nice bridge between the movies

[Doc Milo]

Jedieb wrote: Sidious and Tyrranus are part of something much larger and more sinister than just two old guys who can shoot Force lightning. Yoda can do that. It's bigger than that. Evil is growing in the galaxy, and its instruments are the Sith. Thoughts?

Just a question. I got the impression that Yoda merely took the Force lightning that Tyrannus shot at him, caught it, and threw it back Tyrannus' way. That he was repelling the Force lightning, not actually using Force lightning on his own. I still believe that is only a Dark Side power...

As to the other points, I agree with what has been said. It's the total corruption in the galaxy -- tipped that way by the manipulations of Sidious, more than likely, that tip the scales toward the dark side.