IMPORTANT - Proof of rebellion

[Live Wire]

Okay I've been talking to Roul and he informed me of what I already knew OOC. That Dagger, DeVille, and Dyzm and himself were part of a rebellion to overthrow the council and sieze power for themselves.

Roul doesnt believe the BS Daggers been spouting about the current council and has offered to turn them in with proof (posts made by them) if we pardon him on the whole running ahead thing. If we get the IC proof then we can summarily banish the whole lot of them!!! It would solve the majority of our problems. I've long suspsected that the attitude of running ahead from roul and dyzm was part of an effort to undermine the council and stir up problems and it looks like I was right.

I think pardoning him on the minor offense for proof of this insurrection! It would once and for all clean up TSO and get rid of the major problems we've been having. We cant aford to not act on this in my opinion. Hell with proof we could exectute them! banishing would be an act of kindness in my eyes. I told roul I would propose it to the council and get back to him asap! what do you guys think? Hes willing to betray them all IC!!!

[Lady Vader]

I was just on the phone with LW and I ran over here as quickly as I could. Basically she told me to log on and read her post. And after reading it I totaly agree with her. I say we go for it. (I was wondering why dagger wanted a trial so badly! I mean thats not normal) I figured they were up to something and basically I didnt trust them. I was willing to give DeVille a second chance since I've known her for so long but after hearing this that chance is gone.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Well, I'd be lying if I said I didn't know about this a long time ago. My reason for not saying anything is simply this: This is a small group. The Sith Order cannot afford to under go so much conflict and dissension. Not in private, not in the eyes of the galaxy. Any level of major scandal can and will destroy this group... I worked carefully behind the scenes on several occasions to prevent Dagger from doing anything which could otherwise damage the reputation of this group, and I believe suspending Dyzm's removal from fleet command (temporarily, if his involvement proves to be lacking) would fix this situation. Dagger frankly doesn't seem to like RPing things out on any level where he would find himself limited, or even contested! This kind of attitude is something I don't like and never will.

An example: When I began my training here, he hosted a spar for all apprentices. I joined, and he proceeded to make a post where he "cut us off" from the Force, much like a Ysalamiri. What in the blazes is that?! I addressed him about it, but he refused to comment on how exactly he attained ANY of his powers. In fact, LL has asked him previously about the origin of his power, and he cannot claim to have any documentation. He doesn't even have witnesses to give any evidence what-so-ever of his having RPed this out in chat servers or otherwise! IC banishing should not be used here. The answer is simple: Refuse to recognize Dagger's "rank" and "ability" (which hasn't been fully earned, in my honest opinion, though I am guilty of humoring him about his powers) and make this public to all of SWFans.net, who might otherwise be oblivious. The last thing we need is for him to return with his supposed "power" and a mass of followers, trying to exact revenge or get back into the group - which he most probably will.

De'Ville might have had these intentions, but she's not impossible to deal with or please. On an IC basis, I can assure you that De'Ville won't pose a threat to this group if she is kept under close supervision. In my opinion she is an excellent RPer, and most if not all of her reasoning IC is very Sith-like, and she certainly doesn't deserved to be banished for that, merely taught strict obedience.

Roul should not be pardoned fully. We are not a system of courts. We are Sith. He should be punished regardless of who he turns in or speaks out against, and perhaps even more so for having intent to uphold their conspiracy against us. This post is a mix of my OOC and IC reasoning on the matter.

[Live Wire]

Before this when we didnt have concrete proof then punishment was the best we can do. The only way to deal with disention is to get rid of it! Cut it off before it spreads! We've already see the havoc they can cause do you really want more of the same?! We've put up with it long enough. Sure put roul on restriction he'll agree to a lesser sentence but I dont think we can afford to keep dagger or DeVille around. I dont think it makes us look weak at all. It makes the council look strong and decisive which is what we're aiming for.

It shows that TSO wont take any -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- from members who dont know what they are doing and think they know it all. Which is the attitude dagger has displayed from day one. If you dont want to banish dyzm...fine I'll go with that depending on how great his involvement is. But dagger and deville need to go! Im sorry but we've put up with the repercussions of their messes for long enough! How much more do we have to put up with till we say enough! The division and trouble they have caused will just continue cause if they are allowed to stay they will continue to try and undermine the councils authority. Dagger is arrogant and has said as much to me OOC that hes not going away no matter what we do to him. Its time to put our foots down and get rid of this problem!

Edit: jeseth me and LV tried to work with LD and she promised us she would put an end to this. She lied and continued to fuel the rebellion! Do you really want to trust a bold faced liar? Its not worth it! We tried to talk her and dagger out of this! It didnt work! No more hoping we can control them cause they proved they'll lie to our faces and continue with their own plans. THey are a liabilty and will continue to cause problems.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I had concrete proof previously of this "rebellion." It's not news to me at all. If you wonder why I said nothing, it's simply because I don't view them as a threat.

Dagger has to be stripped of his IC power, because he has not earned it. If anything, banning him is something to consider. He god-modes his character to an extreme, and has never to my knowledge actually presented us with ANY information to confirm the origins of himself or his creations! All of SWFans.net should know this, because it is VERY unfair to people who have RPed many many pages of text just to earn one measly Force power like Pull or Throw!

Dyzm, as I said before... we don't know the level of his involvement. I suggest slowly and naturally removing his command of the Fleet, and then beating him until he cries for mercy. He'll tell us what he knows, or we'll extract it from his brain after we rip it from his skull.

De'Ville I know dropped her plans after myself and Seth made it into the Council, because she hoped that we'd bring the changes she desired. What she asks isn't much. I realize many of you here might see it as being completely out of the question, the matter of the fact is this: She was unhappy with the way the group was run. How many others will feel the same in time if changes aren't made? It's going to rip this group apart to cast her away, especially when she was being very Sith-ish in character and doing what she was supposed to. As far as I know (because I talk to her often) she had dropped these plans and wanted to see if things would change. The Sith Order does not have many members. We do not even have many members who I would consider to be any good at RPing, to be honest. The bulk of them are here on the council, save maybe 2 or 3! That's terrible! De'Ville is actually one of the best we have. To cast her out is to hurt ourselves as a whole, despite he disloyalty. That can be dealt with IC pretty easily, and I know that I could handle her if need be. I really don't want to see her go.

Dyzm, to be honest, I don't get. What is he doing in charge of our Fleets? He can hardly even RP them right and doesn't know much if anything about the very ships he uses, and doesn't even bother to learn. That is what bugs me about his character. Who gives him that authority? He has no place being in charge of a military, much less an entire fleet!

Roul is salvageable, but I honestly don't trust him IC, and I don't believe any good will come of giving him any apprentices or positions of responsibility.

[Lady Vader]

I agree with everything LW just said, so I won't repeat it.

What I will say is this: TSO has always been a small group. It makes for a tighter knitt, more family oriented if you will. Once someone breaks the trust and loyalty they have given to the members, it is nerely impossible to regain it back. Dagger and company have done exactly this.

Dagger should be banished. He has shown time and again he has no repsect for authority and loyalty. He has shown he cares nothing about the Council. He's underminded it more than once and threatened lives from the Council. (And don't go telling me, "Yeah, he's just being a Sith." I'm not taking that -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- anymore. Even the Sith have rules and regulations about traiterous members.)

I also don't care much for his little followers: Lady Alaria and Chryn. Both would die for him. So, if he gets bannished, so do they.

As for Dyzm and De'Ville, I will say this once, and once only: After reading about this rebellion, I will never again trust them; fully, if at all. They broke that trust they'd achieved by being with TSO. They went behidn our backs. First, De'Ville almost split TSO in two. Now this. (And I'm tired of hearing this crap about her "only acting Sith-ish". I'm sorry, but there are rules, and anyone that breaks the rules and runs amuck is considered a traitor. So, enough of this "Sith-ish" excuse crap. She betrayed TSO by nearly snapping it in two. That trust is gone.)
And I don't know much about Dyzm's involvment, but anyone blind enough to follow a moron like Dagger has got to be bad news. And both, no doubt, knew the consiquences if they were caught.
We don't neccessarily have to banish them (though that would be my first choice). We could severly punish them. Though in the long run, I don't think that will make an iota of difference in their views. They have caused disention before, and they can certainly do it again. Like I said, the trust there has been broken.

As for Roul. I agree with Jeseth. He does not deserve a complete pardon. He was blind enough to follow Dagger without even thinking of the consiquences. He will merely be severely punished. We will deal with him later.

Right now, we have to deal with Dagger and company.

Hey, they were the one's (led by De'Ville at the time) complaining that TSO was too kind and soft. Not enough happening. Well, they should have paid closer attetnion to that saying, "Be carful what you wish for", because hwta they have to deal with now is a group that won't put up with anymore bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-. They wanted TSO to have a tighter fist, well, they've got it. And we should NOT back down and let them get away with just punishment. Banishment will, in the long run, hurt them more. Because other groups will see they are untrustworthy and not accept them.

It's spring cleaning time at TSO.

[Seth Darkserpent]

This is an outrage! I knew something was happening behind our backs. I knew they were secretly rebelling. At first I would've posted kill them all, but now I've thought it over a bit.

DeVille- She is unruly and has tried to dissolve the Council twice, I believe. I don't know if I can ever trust her with anything again. Sure the RPing skills are there, but RPing skills mean zilch when there is no trust. She wants changes in TSO, but she wants them to her accord. We are not trying to please Lady De'Ville when we establish rules and run the Order. We are doing it for the Order, not one person.

Dyzm- Not much to say on him. I think his fleet command should be stripped. How many times do I have to say, a Sith does not command fleets! Notice how Garrett and Gav have seperate characters for that sort of thing. Darth Vader was an exception, but he never actually commanded the Imperial fleet, he had commanders to do it for him. Dyzm is annoying, and needs punishment.

Dagger- ARRRGGGHH! Dagger makes me sick sometimes. He believes he can do anything he wants, and I agree with him on AIM to avoid an argument. Quite frankly, this Grandmaster BS disgusts me. I've never heard of such a dumb thing. I can imagine a character like Anbira or Ogre taking the title of a Sith grandmaster, but I'd still be a little weary there. Dagger is a bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-ter and I agree we NEED to get rid of him. He makes us look bad as a group. And he passes himself off to be the strongest Sith at SWFans, able to drain midichloreans to stay alive. Excuse me for a moment, I got to wipe the BS off my screen.

Roul- What a surprise, he betrayed TSO again. Now we have substantial evidence and I think he should be killed. He is responsible for half of TSO's current issues. His rudeness, idiocy, power hunger make TSO look like some idiot group. I don't CARE if he's reading this right now, because I've had enough of his damn BS. I am ready to take out my sword and attack Roul.

To sum it up:

Roul- Should be immediately kicked out. NO MORE CHANCES.
Dagger- Same as Roul
DeVille- Should be reprimanded harshly.
Dyzm- Should be stripped of fleet command and reprimanded harshly.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I still uphold my original opinion. I don't want to see De'Ville banned. It's a bad idea, in my opinion. I don't think she even had plans to continue with her rebellion after Live Wire and her had that talk. She only acted in what she thought were the groups best interests. As one of the newest Council Members here, and also probably the youngest (in terms of time with group) present, I can say I think it would be a bit unfair to LD and Dyzm to receive banishment for what they did/have planned to do. I know for a fact it is not going to help our situation for a number of reasons, one of which is that this groups main problem right now isn't loyalty. It's the caliber of our RPers. That's what's wrong with TSO (Dagger, Roul, and Dyzm all show this).

Everywhere I see IC posts being address with OOC dialogue, no one bothers to really RP things out anymore, and some god-mode their way through it all. Dagger being the best example we have... He doesn't just need to be banished, but exposed for the fraud he is, along with his apprentice and "wife." I saw we let the Ysalamiris rape her.

The others don't deserve banishment. I can imagine how much it would hurt OOC to lose one's place, even for doing something which IC was realistic. Punishment is one issue, hurting someone else on an OOC level is something else. I really would rather avoid kicking anyone out. Demoting, Torturing, Scaring, just about anything really, is better than that. I personally had De'Ville involved in some things I had wanted to RP with her and this would totally screw them all up, too. I'm not only wanting her to stay here because of that, but her character needs to be taught discipline properly, not kicked out. I suggest enslavement to every other member of TSO - even apprentices - until she can be deemed as being trustworthy. The fact that she would be enslaved while on Corellia would keep her away from us anyway, if that's what you want, and she might come back later with a changed attitude.

Roul (despite his protest) deserves to be stripped of a rank at the very least, but enslavement might also be an alternative to that (again, I don't want to hurt people OOC. That's not why I RP). If you want people to see that we are strong as a group, then show it by forcing others to submit to your will. In this case, Lady De'Ville and Roul, maybe even Dyzm if he was deeply involved. It's an alternative that all parties can agree to and learn from/with. Please consider this.

In other words, I agree with Seth on all points made.

[Gav Mortis]

Not caring to hear anymore, Gav leaves his seat and the Council Room.

[Lord Psychic]

TSO has barely grown since it was first begin. TSC was flourishing before it went.

I clearly can see and understand why such a rebellion would start up here. TSO does not have enough order, members, or activity. Not that such a rebellion would make it right. It could of been discussed.

So as far as punishments go..

Roul - I say he needs yet another chance. Besides admitting his guilt and trying to fix his mistakes, he even confessed this up.

Dyzm - I say he should be stripped of his powers as Fleet Commander and demoted. He never actually did move against the council. He doesn't really know much about the ship in the fleet, has on occasion been a little too disrespectful, and plotting against us just tipped the iceberg.

Deville - Banishment. She moved against the council and nearly destroyed what was left of TSO, and in process, many were wounded.

Dagger - I believe he should be held prisoner at TSO for the rest of his days, under close watch and harsh conditions. He's very distrustful, unloyal, unrespectful, and he makes this group very unstable.

[Jeseth Cloak]

READ THE SUBJECT AND ALSO KEEP THAT IN MIND!

<font size=1>WashburnMan15: hello
BinaryCloak: hey Roul, how are you?
WashburnMan15: I have some compeling evidence I would like to show the council
BinaryCloak: Well, due to our discussion in the Council Room no one can be allowed in right now. maybe you'd care to give it to me and i'll post it?
BinaryCloak: along with this AIM conversation, if you'd like
WashburnMan15: It is a thread
WashburnMan15: that proves DeVille, Dagger and Dyzm's guilt
BinaryCloak wants to directly connect.
WashburnMan15 declines request; no connection was made.
WashburnMan15: I trust LW has already told the council about our conversation
BinaryCloak: Some things are being discussed, but at the moment I'm unsure of what I can tell you about it. She has presented your arguement to the council, though.
BinaryCloak: Can you direct connect and send me the thread so I can read it? Or link me to it or something?
WashburnMan15: it is in a secure forum
WashburnMan15: so I don't know if that would work
WashburnMan15: but I will try it
WashburnMan15: you make the connection
WashburnMan15 wants to directly connect.
WashburnMan15 cancels request; no connection was made.
BinaryCloak wants to directly connect.
WashburnMan15 is now directly connected.
WashburnMan15: ok how do I do this
BinaryCloak: copy the entire thread starting at the forum names and to the very bottom, then paste it into here
WashburnMan15: The Death Guard
> Secure Room
> TSO discussion


Author Comment
Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 86
(5/24/01 8:53:45 pm)
Reply
TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well....

TSO Bio


Dark Lord Dyzm
Guest
Posts: 1
(5/24/01 10:56:07 pm)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dagger, I trust this Is a Private Forum?

Dammit Roul! You Couldnt Have Made Yourself Any More Obvious?!?! You Walk Up and Ask To Talk to the 2 People who are In Trouble In TSO, then you Add My name? Making People Suspicious of Me!



Lady DeVille
Guest
Posts: 1
(5/25/01 4:52:03 am)
Reply
Community Supporter

Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LMAO, Let me see if I can cover for you Dzym....

Dark Lord Dyzm
Guest
Posts: 2
(5/25/01 5:48:36 am)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks

Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 87
(5/25/01 10:34:22 am)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
damnit i didn't notice that....but yes this room is secure..and there are no more admins who can give themselves acess

Dyyz Natal
Guest
Posts: 1
(5/25/01 7:51:39 pm)
Reply | Edit
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry but it is the only way I can contact you. I will make up for it. I want in. I can help you greatly.

Dark Lord Dyzm
Sith Master of TSO
Posts: 3
(5/26/01 12:09:47 am)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, But Your Posts Sounds Like A Cover Up! Learn To Be A Spy! If I was in Gavs Place I would Be Dead Suspicious! Dont Post In that Thread Again

Dyyz Natal
Guest
Posts: 2
(5/26/01 12:43:09 am)
Reply | Edit
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did just the one time to make it sound like we were actually arguing over this. but that was the last time.

Lady DeVille
Beautiful Lady of TSO
Posts: 2
(5/26/01 4:17:10 am)
Reply
Community Supporter

Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LMAO


You guys are hopeless.

Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 88
(5/26/01 6:10:52 am)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i know you don't like the council...so i am willing to let you in, but the decission does not just rest with me it rests with these two as well, but how are you willing to help us and do you mean as this character or Roul, or both?

Dyyz Natal
TSO Admiral
Posts: 3
(5/28/01 5:11:06 pm)
Reply | Edit
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both, I know you want a new council. Roul has a secret alliance with Psy, who is now on the council. Dyyz is the commander of Delta fleet so he can help you with that. Roul is also a demolitionist and Dyyz is a bounty hunter. If you ever need someone captured or dead you go to Dyyz. If you ever need somthing blown up you go to Roul.

I have a voice in TSO. Oh and also, I am trusted and most important...free.

Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 89
(5/28/01 10:39:26 pm)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
exellent, thankyou my friend, when i get out of this blasted UEC LV will find that she has a major problem on her hands and i may call on that...but dealing with the council must hold for the moment, after this vote much of TSO is behind the council...but it won't last, and when they loose faith in the council we will be there to pick up the pieces

Dyyz Natal
TSO Admiral
Posts: 4
(5/28/01 11:39:33 pm)
Reply | Edit
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
good good. So am I in?



Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 90
(5/29/01 8:53:43 pm)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as far as i am concerned..yes, the others will ahve to agree though

Lord Dagger
Supreme Commander
Posts: 94
(5/31/01 7:48:20 pm)
Reply
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i assume that your post in my capture is a deception....i trust you don't actually want me to pay do you


Lord Dagger, Sith Master of TSO and TSE
Height: 6'
Eyes: Cold green
Hair Colour: Black with single white lock
Wields: Two crimson dual phase lightsabres Widowmaker and Lifestealer, lightning claws and the anchient Sith artifact Death Bringer

Personal Transports: SSD Dominator and a modified Lambda class shuttle
Wears: Force hardened armour and personal shielding




Dyyz Natal
TSO Admiral
Posts: 5
(6/1/01 8:53:01 pm)
Reply | Edit
Re: TSO discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is all to make them think that I am not on your side. That I am on the side of the council








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WashburnMan15 direct connection is closed.
WashburnMan15: well?
BinaryCloak: Interesting...
BinaryCloak: See this post implicates Lord Dagger, and it implicates Dyzm to a Degree, and even yourself, though De'Ville is mentioned much here. Any reason for that?

Auto response from WashburnMan15: brb

WashburnMan15: for what?
BinaryCloak: Well De'Ville and Dyzm didn't post much after you did, did they chicken out or something?
WashburnMan15: well I have a thread where LD posts
WashburnMan15: she just says that she is giving TSO another chance
BinaryCloak: Can I see that one too, please?
WashburnMan15: I'm working on getting the originals
BinaryCloak: Alright, thanx alot
WashburnMan15: now, remember all of these posts by me are just to get info from them
WashburnMan15: Click Here!

Nothos Inc.
> High Security Area
> TSO stuff

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Author Comment
Dyyz Natal
Managment
Posts: 4
(6/4/01 8:12:07 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All
TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
should we make a fleet for TSO of like cruisers and VSD's? Just a small one



Darth Roul
CEO
Posts: 80
(6/5/01 2:37:54 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have bigger problems
Dagger you were kicked out of TSO by the council. and i am next on their list. I must stay as far away from you all as posible for now.

The Sith Order Nothos Inc Eternal Rogue Order The Dark Axis

Lord Dagger
Client
Posts: 1
(6/5/01 2:58:09 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kicking me out is the worst mistake they can make, becuase then they have no control what so ever over me...TSO already has a board...i can't remember the link, so we could start construction there if you like, nicely out of the way

Darth Roul
CEO
Posts: 81
(6/5/01 3:45:43 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alright and we do have the minimum requierment of 4 members

The Sith Order Nothos Inc Eternal Rogue Order The Dark Axis

Lord Dagger
Client
Posts: 2
(6/6/01 2:54:40 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Sith Outcasts i'll leave ships to you, i don't know how they work any more

Lady DeVille
Client
Posts: 1
(6/6/01 11:25:54 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Community Supporter

Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wait wait wait a minute!!! I'm not abandoning ship on TSO yet. Besides, IC, De'Ville can't really do anything, as she is at TSO and unconscious.

I want to give The Sith Order another chance. If they misuse their chance, I'm not starting a new group. I will probably join an existing one. No offense to anyone, thats just what I've been planning already.

Lord Dagger
Client
Posts: 3
(6/7/01 3:00:13 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i would agree with DeVille, except for one small point...i'm fast running out of places to go, it will have to be the jedi soon...so cancel the ships and ignore the group, it ain't gonna happen if Dagger even lives long enough for it to matter to him...

Darth Roul
CEO
Posts: 82
(6/7/01 8:52:58 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: TSO stuff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we could just leave swfans all together and go to TGC. It is actually very nice there. The fleet rules are a little different but it is still nice. And the jedi actually participate!

The Sith Order Nothos Inc Eternal Rogue Order The Dark Axis

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WashburnMan15: well?
WashburnMan15 signed off at 09:21:12 PM.
WashburnMan15 signed on at 09:21:16 PM.
BinaryCloak: Ok. Based on this thread, I can say that Dager is pretty much guilty without a doubt, De'Ville is on thin ice, and Dyzm is in some deep -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- himself.
BinaryCloak: I'll post all of this conversation into the Council Room, alright?
WashburnMan15: thank you, both of them?
BinaryCloak: Yeah. This whole conversation. I know De'Ville had told me she hadn't planned this anymore and I wanted to make sure about it, because I didn't think she lied to me.</fnt>

[Live Wire]

I know some of you think Im being irrational and not thinking. I assure you Ive given this a lot of thought. And its hard for me to say. But I can never trust them again. They've proven themselves untrustworthy and in a group like this trust is EVERYTHING. Dagger should be banished and or killed without question for more reasons then I care to state. If you want to try to rehabilitate Dyzm fine...strip him of power and make him start over. I still believe DeVille should be banished as well. But if we cant agree I will say strip her of power as well and make her start over. But my first choice is banishment. As for roul take away any responsibilities given him. He did have the decency to own up to being a part of this and is turning in the rest of the guilty parties.

Jeseth I had knowledge too just not IC. And despite waht you think such things are a GRAVE THREAT to TSO. More then you will ever know. Take it from someone who survived countless problems with TSC. You dont take it lightly or you end up with a -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-load of problems.

Oh and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. DeVille knew that no matter how good her intentions were it would end up with dire consequences. (she told me as much) and she has to deal with it. Remember DeVille started it and got Dagger involved. Jeseth I Know you have a good heart but that can get you killed! Take it from me you'll get stabbed in the back. I just dont want to see what we've all worked for get destroyed cause of a second chance. I've seen it happen!!!

[Lord Psychic]

OOC: I was alowed access to Roul's forum, I was wondering why he posted that thing about the fleet.

IC:

LW and I pretty much agree on the fates of the members. This is muntiny. We can't just forget about it like what we've done in the past. We need more order, and this is one way of showing it.. by making all of these members pay dearly.

[Keerrourri Sarrtarroa]

Dyzm: Reprimand, demotion, etc. Make him bust his ass to get what he had.

Dagger: I'm galled at the Grandmaster bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- even still...to insinuate somehow that his character was higher than Anbira in such an overwhelming manner. Even when his prior RP history was shown to be unsupportable here, he continued this crap, which is godmode. I say, strip him, beat him, gnash your teeth at him, and leave him to be devoured by the Pride. Same for his cronies Alaria and Chryn. Expose his ass.

De'Ville: Well, even Anbira sided with her opinions that the council needed reform. But that was a while back, and even if she's been clean, there is distrust. Time to put the trust back in place. I figure with enough neurotoxin in her body to kill her over a dozen times over as we speak....we don't have to worry about where her loyalties lie anymore. She is the property of TSO, and if it is so decided, can be killed with a word...in an instant. Sanis Prent made sure of that. Don't kick her out...make her work for the Order...as a loyal servant, just as she should be.

Roul: My favorite part. Baron Vladimir Harkonnen once said to never trust a traitor, even if he betrays your arch enemy. I say we promise him a full pardon, and say that if he gives us the others, that we will forget about his treason. Water under the bridge.

...except that Roul's water has piranhas in it. Once the deed is done...we dispatch Roul in most brutal fashion. He's done. I'm tired of giving him chances. I refuse to do so again. Show him that we can giveth, and we can damn sure taketh away.

Ah, I love moments of ruthless splendor :D

[Jeseth Cloak]

LL, I say we have Roul murder Dyzm and Dagger, telling him he'll be absolved, and then kick Roul out into the cold for all to see the actions which he has commited. No group, Sith OR Jedi, will take him then.

[Lady Vader]

I hope, Psy, that bit about a small alliance with Roul was just a farse...

After reading those threads, I get the feeling De'Ville has been planning this little inserection for a long time, and I get the feeling she really doesn't give a flying -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- about TSO. And, yet, she states she does. She's got conflicting views and in my eyes has gone completely insane. I'm about ready to start a new forum called "TSO Funny Farm" and throw her in. I'm tired of dealing with her "ideas" of making TSO "better" by causing disention. It did nothing but bring trouble to a peaceful group. Someone like that should NOT be allowed to wonder freely. Goodness only knows what she'd do to those other groups she stated in joining if she was kicked forth from TSO.

Banish Dagger's ass. Basically strip him of everything he had here at TSO, ignore his rantings and grandmasterings. Only give him posting access to the Visitor and OOC forums. And do the same for his followers: Chryn, Alaria, and any others I forgot.

Roul... what to do with Roul. I like LL's idea. Keep him close but at arms length type thing. But, it's true what he said: Not much sense in trusting someone who's betraying his own who happen to be our enemy. Just keep an eye on this one.

[Lord Psychic]

The "secret alliance" thing had nothing to do with this, Roul and I're going to just be looking out for each other in RPGs. I don't even know why it was brought up.

To basically some up my last post..

Deville - Eternal banishment
Dagger - Death or life in an eternal prison with harsh conditions
Dyzm - Stripped of fleet duties and demoted
Roul - Stripped of his shipyard duties, demoted, and have to be carefully watched

[Anbira Hicchoru]

:: A rasping breath struggling to form words can be faintly heard in tandem of a cold, artificial voice. ::

<font color=0099FF>Wi-i-iipe_them_out____a-all_of_them.</font>

[Jedah Lynch]

The fun never stops..no wonder I get headaches each time go to the boards nowadays. heh.

To add my two cents despite most or everything that could be said has been said, I basically agree with most everything said.

We come to RP for fun, at least we do in the beginning and no doubt these topics are not very fun but stability within a group needs to be there and sometimes harsh actions need to be taken. Got several members not adding to the stability or going out of their way for their own agenda that conflicts with TSO's intrest and that can not be allowed.

Chances have been given in good faith and failed to be returned in good faith. But...and yes this is one of those but things. I agree with most of what was said about Roul, Dagger and Dyzm, to be completely and brutally honest they add nothing and tend to cause trouble. Plus their RP skills are sub par at best.

When it comes to De'Ville however, its slightly different. Do know several members here want nothing more than to skin her alive but she is quite the remarkable little RPer, has a intelligent mind and can add to TSO. She is very Sith like which few are on the boards, that can be good or bad depending on the situation. With what she is doing..I'm rathe sure we can make sure she does what is right with TSO, if that can not be achieved by OOC means then IC as mentioned got the toxins that can kill her. And where I'm her Master, she is suppose to listen or else. At least thats the way I play the game, if not, slice and dice time.

That being said I still owe her a punishment for her first little insurrection, might be able to think of something that will teach her the error of her ways severly with a rather stern warning attached.

[Lady Vader]

I just want to see this come through asap. The longer we wait, the longer they have time to do whatever it is they are planning.

Speed is of the essence here.

(Hey Anbira... nice choice of words. Hehe. :) )

[Jedah Lynch]

Seems to be a general agreement on Roul, Dyzm and Dagger, so for them they should be removed and can be dealt with ASAP.

But with Deville would request her given some time to be dealt with, even if the chances are slim that we can get her to see things right. At least do want the chance to try and see if we can convince her, only this time it will be the final time.

[Jeseth Cloak]

I have been in accordance with what Lynch is saying all along: De'Ville might not be loyal, but that's something that can fixed. She's one of the few good RPs we have here (who's not on the council) and to see her go would do more overall harm than good. She's really not a threat if we don't let her be... and with the current council she couldn't really overthrow this order if she tried. Who would follow her? There aren't any other members left, if you taken a look around.

If this has to be dealt with, then I'd suggest we just allow Lynch to decide her fate. He's her master, if I were in his place perhaps I too would want the decision to rest in my hands as far as my apprentices were concerned. ;; Shrugs. ;;

[Lord Psychic]

She is a good roleplayer, but it wouldn't be fair to others if we went easier on her. There are other good rpers out there. Deville is the one who led the first ressurection, but we went easier on her. Yet she continued to rebell. She is just as much if not less loyal than Roul. He too has gone against TSO's wishes many times, however at least he tried to fix it, he admitted his guilt, and he even gave us this info. Deville continued to rebell and lie. Personally, I'd hate to see Deville go, but I don't think that being a good RPer is an excuse for this.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I will reiterate regarding De'Ville....she will no longer have the option to betray TSO again. She knows that if she does, she can be killed in an instant, with the mere whispering of a word. As of now...she belongs to TSO. She lost her say in the matter :)

[Lady Vader]

Roul came forward. That took GUTS. I don't know about you, but I respect that. Not many would have done that. So, I'm still undecided on what his fate shold be.

Dagger... duh. Get rid of him. He's an eye sore here at TSO. And he can take his bastard croonies with him!

As to De'Ville... I agree with Psy 100%. I don't like how we're giving De'Ville "special treatment". And that part Psy mentioned about her being a good RPer means nothing is what I've been trying to say in my last few posts. Just because she can RP doesn't mean squat. She BETRAYED us! She LIED to us! She nearly DESTROYED TSO! What the -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- more do you want? For her to kill a Council Member?! Don't turn into those people that need to be hit over the head with a large wooden mallet before you GET it!

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I had a long day, and I'm tired of going around in circles with this. The longer we wait to do ANYTHING, the more time is left open for SOMETHING to happen that may not be to our liking (i.e. Dagger pulling some load of -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-).

We decide on what to do NOW. We take a vote. I, like everyone else, will accept the votes cast, even if they are not to my liking. We should decide on what the punishments should be. Maybe:

Banishment
Disconnection from all responsibilities
Demoting
Permanent Imprisonment

These are just some suggestions. Throw in what you feel was left out.

[Live Wire]

well we seem to be pretty much in agreement about everyone but DeVille. I think shes the only one we really need to vote on. Everyone wants dagger banished. And I think everyone said Dyzm should be stripped of all rank and responsibility. There was a little disention abour Roul but for the most part it seems we're against banishment since he did come forward. If Im reading the thread right the consensus was to take away his duties. Im not sure on demotion so we can vote on whether or not to demote him. So should we have a new thread voting on those two issues?

[Lord Psychic]

About Dagger, I spoke with him over MSN, and he says he had 120-150 clones waiting for him and that he'd come back and kill Gav should Gav kill him, so it may be the same thing if he were to die by being punished. I don't know where this is going.

[Live Wire]

I saw we kill him, alaria, and chryn that way it eliminates whoever might know where these clones are. *sighs* Im sooo sick of him.

besides a clone isnt the same person! unless they are programed with daggers memories or instructions

[Jeseth Cloak]

He'd do a mind transfer via the Force... but guess what? He can't come back and kill Gav if he's banned. :)
edit: name mix up

[Seth Darkserpent]

Don't you mean kill Gav O_o

Just BAN him! Gah at this point, I'm sick of all four of them..

[Lord Psychic]

Yeah but he could always do it at SWfans.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Please... he has no credebility. His character isn't even for real.

[Jedah Lynch]

Dagger and credability certainly isnt two things you here much of in the same sentence thats for sure.

Dont remember him having any clone knowledge/expierence with either.

Then again not like its regulated.

[Live Wire]

dagger is the next Itala.......apparently he never told them he was making a bid for power like he did to us. God I was so sick of hearing him say how he should be running the entire group. he manipulated them and took them down with him. Oh well their stupidity is no excuse. Im just glad daggers gone. He shall forever be dead in the eyes of tso.

[Lady Vader]

if he's gone and all seems to be fine, why is my headache still here?

[Live Wire]

it'll last for a few days...Im closing this and moving it