::Bows down to the Council::

[Darth Roul]

::stands up::
I ask you my lords and ladys if I may have two things.

As a gift for my recent leave I will give TSO the planet of Churba when I take it over

One:Administrative powers. I have been a moderator ever since we came to TSO

Two:a seat on the council. I have been a loyal member. I was one of the council members of TSC. I am one of the last survivors of the first reith of @#%$. LV remembers that. I at one time was general of the TSC army. I have had many victories as a leader and as a fighter. I have trained two great fighters, Fox609 and Darth Dark Cloak. I was an origional supporter of TSO and its council. I own a planet and a fleet that is willing to fight for TSO. I at one time was a very successful spy for TSC (I didnt know it was illigal at the time). At the current time I am the leader of the DAO. I have had much experience on the battle field and as a leader.

Please bless me with these items. If you do I shall be forever grateful.

[Live Wire]

the council will discuss it

[Lady DeVille]

*discuss discuss discuss discuss*

[Garrett Blade]

I hate to be rude, but I could have just as much claim to a seat on the council as you! But since I don't see a point in joining the council, I don't want to be on the council.

I have brought three planets and a huge fleet to TOS, as well as being one of two people who even bothered to contribute to the Zeus Project. And might I also add that the council is not even going to be in control of Zeus once it is finished! Gav knows this also, so don't try and talk to him about it. I'm not being dictative or anything, just that I don't feel as though anyone else should have any power over Zeus since they've done diddly squat about it!

[Darth Roul]

Garrett i would have taken part but it started after I went on my break

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

If anyone has a Seat On the Council It should Be Roul. He has been around longer then both of us, Garret.

But what worries me right now, is that you two are fighting for power. And On the Zues Project. The Resources of TSO are backing it. To claim it as a separate from TSO can be seen as some as a sign of Treason.

A saying I heard long ago falls under what is happening right now



Do Not Count on the Glories of the Past to decide the Future.


I look around, and what Do I See? Power Grabs!
And It Sickens Me.

This Is a democracy, I say let the Group in General Decide who they think the best council members should be.
Learn from the Past! Are we so blind from the horrors of the past to forget the good parts of TSC?
Remember, In TSC, we the group voted for the rank, not in all the cases but in most of them.
Lets Not Forget that, and do away with the spoils system that is controlling us and the council now.

[Live Wire]

if you want to open votes to everyone as to if roul should have a seat on the council thats fine with me. I've not been around much in the past couple of days due to a RL situation but sure vote on it.

[Darth Roul]

if it helps I may have enough proof to ban @#%$ from swfans forever

[Lady DeVille]

Hmm, that certainly sounds good. And what is this about no one doing diddly squat about Zeus? ON numerous occasions, when you have asked people to participate, they have been agreeable, but SINCE ONLY YOU KNOW WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON, and you CHOSE not to SHARE the exact information with us, there was no way for people to get involved. I asked, and I know others did too, HOW CAN WE HELP!?

And was there an answer? NO, there wasn't. I dont' want to hear about only you having control over a huge planetary superweapon, because seriously, that scares me Garrett.

[Lord Dagger]

:: nods ::
"I aggree with DeVille, no one person should have sole control of a superweapon, epseccialy one TSO ressorces built. As fo proof to get @#%$ banned for ever, that should be offered up freely anyway as any good RPer should, as to a vote, how many council members do we currently have, becuase we always need an odd number"

[Gav Mortis]

Jeezaaass!!!

I'm offline for a day or two and this happens? Thank God Gav is dead because I think he would've been sent to an early grave with all of this bickering!

As for Roul's position on the Council, I will make my opinion known. No offence to you in anyway Roul but I don't think you are truely deserving of a place on the Council at this moment in time. You have only recently returned and although I am aware of your loyalty to TSC I do not doubt your loyalty to TSO but I think perhaps a longer period of active roleplaying time is required before you are given a seat on the council.

That is just my opinion.

[Lady DeVille]

I apologize if it seemed like I was bickering. I was only trying to let it be known that on more than one occasion at least I offered to get involved, but was never briefed on the project.

Also, I would have less qualms about letting Gav/Roebuck have control of Zeus than I would you, Garrett. That's just the way it is. No offense, but sometimes you don't come across very predictably, and that might hurt TSO in the long run. Or the short run.

[Gav Mortis]

No need to appologise LD-it seems bickering has become a regular part of roleplaying, just check out the OOC forum at SWFans! :)

As for a briefing on the project i believe I posted one looong ago, wait there...

[Darth Roul]

as for @#%$ i dont know if i can get the info now
and i respect your opinion Gav

[Lady DeVille]

Ok, sorry, bad choice of words. We were briefed, but when I asked how LD could get involved specifically no one got back to me.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

((Notices No One gave second thought to what I had to say...lol))

Penny for all your thoughts as of right now?

[Darth Roul]

If one person had control over zues then if they left TSO, our supplies that went into zues would b theirs. in my opinion that is wrong. if you use your personal materials to build your personal fleet then you can have it. I own a small fleet that I built with the supplies from a planet that I conquered.

So are we going to put my promotion to a vote of the members?????????

[Live Wire]

I've been thinking this over and the problem with giving this kind of vote to all of the members is we have a lot of padawans who dont know anything right now. Letting them vote on this doesnt seem right somehow cause they dont know enough about Roul to make an educated choice.

Im a little put off by the fact that you come back and immediately want admin status and a seat on the council. Thats just asking for trouble and in my oppinion does nothing but serve to start disention among the members and Im not too pleased at how you've reffered to the current council!

The council is here as a stabilizing force. We havent had to make any real decisions except for things like promotions. Any other decisions made around here has been discussed by all senior members of TSO. If you had been around you would have seen that. I dont like how you come back passing judgement on a system you know absolutely nothing about!

The major decisions were discussed by everyone with ssc access. This excludes padawans who really havent been here long.

As for the zeus project TSO resources went into it thus making it a TSO project and under TSO jurisdiction. Yes it was Gav and Garretts pet project and they are in charge of it but that does not mean they have sole ownership of it. It's TSO property. I have no objections to Gav being allowed to be in charge of it. He's proved himself many times over and is a talented person. But make no mistake it is under TSO command.

*sighs*

Its this kind of power grab that causes trouble in other groups and I'd hoped I'd never see it in TSO but I suppose that was an unrealistic desire. Everyone on the current council is there cause of continuous service to tso and also because they have show an ability and desire to serve. The council is not a power grab. Its responsibility! And as I said before major decisions have been made by all senior members and the council system is in place as a stability factor! You have to have some kind of arrangement or it become anarchy and groups fall apart. I dont think anyone wants that to happen to TSO cause this is a good group! We've got some of the most respected RPers here and Im proud to be in TSO! Hell Im getting approached by people in other sith groups that want to join TSO cause they can see that what we have is different!

I feel that if roul serves TSO in a dedicated consistant manner and demonstrates all of the qualities that are needed in a council member then a promotion will happen at the right time. But personally by coming and asking for those two things right off the bat tells me that at this point in time he doesnt have them.

IMHO a council member isnt just someone who roleplays well. Its someone who has respect for the current system, who understands the needs of all the members, someone willing to organize and take initiative. Someone who works for the greater good and not personal advancement. From what I've seen the council members take more time helping the other sith then they do spending time making their characters more powerful. Not to mention it keeps you up late at night sometimes. :)

That is why people like DeVille were promoted to council member ahead of group members who had been with us longer. Its not about time of service its about how you do it and where your motivation is. The council cant be made up of people looking for self advancement and power. Thats what has been the problem in the past in groups like TSE who split into RSO and ROS. Ask any admin here how many times they have used thier admin powers beyond giving someone a title. Its not often cause TSO can run itself without too much interference. Not to mention having a lot of admins causes problems and I've seen that happen at lots of boards not just RP ones associated with SWfans. Its asking for trouble.

Okay Im sorry about the long ass post but I had a lot to say. Thank you for being patient.

[Lord Dagger]

:: Bows respectfully to LW ::
"Your points are all good ones my Lady and i agree entirly. The council is, as LW pointed out, not a power grab, most of those who are on it did not ask to be on it, we were asked to take a seat on it, not nessesarily becuase we a re good RPer's or becuase we have been with the group a long time, no it was becuase we are trust worthy and willing to put the good of the group before their own personal needs. That is why the council is and why it works, it keeps stability becuase it is an entity set up to serve, not to control"

[Lady DeVille]

I also think that being on the Council is not like being promoted to Master or anything like that. There are not unlimited seats...so not everyone will become a council member.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

**Would have stood up and cheered if he wasnt in suck a Bad Mood becuse of RL things**

I would rather stick with being just a Older Member, and keep my job as head of secret services. I'm about to give up Fleet RPGing all together. Its Causing Way to much Trouble. And It gets annoying. And If someone Could, change the name of Dyzm's Lab to TSO R&D, I have no further wish to promote myself like that.

[Lord Psychic]

Being a senior member myself, I have to say that Roul would of probably been on the council already if he hadn't left for that period of time.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that I don't care very much right now to be on the council, nor do I think that I deserve such a title. I realize that I need to develop my character more and participate in more things, and now with Kahn being debated on a promotion I'll have more time to do it.

[Darth Roul]

I never meant for myself to sound like all I wanted was power, I belive at my current position I cant do much to help TSO because of the obsticals that i face. Not saying that the council is an obstical. Its just that I would need premision to do my invasions of planets to help out TSO.

I also never meant to sound like Gav and Garrett should have no power over zues, they should command it. It sounded like Garrett was saying that TSO should not even own zues.

My belife is that the council is the one thing that my charcter lives for is to be made a member of the council. I thought for sure that he would be a member of the origial council.

I also didn't mean to sound like I was making the council out to be a mockery. It is great because of its democratic values. It is the highest seat in the land (next to the US senate) and only those worthy should be allowed a position.

If you belive I am not ready then so be it. I will work harder to gain a seat.

[Gav Mortis]

Yes it was Gav and Garretts pet project and they are in charge of it but that does not mean they have sole ownership of it.

What the hell! I never claimed I did have sole ownership of it! :(

[Xarkz Chaos]

LW, What do you think makes someone a senior member?

[Live Wire]

Getting permission isnt a big deal. And most of the time permission to do those kinds of things comes from all of the senior members not just the council because the council believes that the senior members all have a voice even if they arent a council member.

A senior member in my oppinion is someone who was at tsc with us. They've been in this for the long run

[Darth Roul]

Good point LW, I guess Im happy just being a senior member

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

I want to be more just a senior member...

I want to be a A Actor!

[Xarkz Chaos]

I see

[Darth Roul]

::takcles Dyzm::