A rethinking

[Live Wire]

due to recent events I've been thinking a lot about what TSO stands for. And somehow over the past couple of weeks it seems to me like we've lost some of it. We have always been a group that resembles more of a family rather then a govt. We've worked hard to make it so that everyone is comfortable here and welcome. We've made it so that it doesnt matter who you are...what your personality IC is like if you're willing to be a part of the family we're willing to take you in.

We've lost that and we need to examine why. I have my own theories as to why and I know Im not alone in them.

I guess what Im trying to say...is we need to rethink our ties with people who dont share our ideals. Its time to revisit what we're gaining and what we're losing. I think a drastic change needs to happen and needs to happen now before we get swept along with the tide of mistrust, hatred and OOC conflict. I think we need to cut our losses and we'll be better for it.

[Sanis Prent]

I'll be blunt.

The alliance has gotta go. Dual memberships need to be discouraged.

Its become an issue of people being in so many groups that its just a big damn mess. With different groups having different committments, its putting undue pressure on people, and I don't think its something we need to do.

I don't think we should outlaw dual memberships outright, but definitely need to discourage it. Especially when things like this happen.

[Seth Darkserpent]

The alliance has gotta go. Dual memberships need to be discouraged.

I agree that the alliance must go, but dual memberships isn't such a bad thing, if one can keep the two groups seperate. For example, I'm a member of the Black Hand, but I do consider TSO my main group, first and foremost. TBH is sort of like a home for Seth, when he isn't at Corellia.


I guess what Im trying to say...is we need to rethink our ties with people who dont share our ideals.

Fact. We are different then every other group at SWFans. Sure, we use the Dark Side like TBH and TSE, but how we run our group, and how we do things is different. For example, we have 3 ranks instead of TSE's 5 or TBH that has none.


I don't like the idea of Sith making alliances in the first place. It would be tough on that person if they belonged to two groups at the same time. Thus, if a war started they would be put in a predicament of choosing sides. We should cut off all ties from every other group and work on bettering TSO's situation, rather then saving another group's ass. I'm sorry if it sounds selfish, but what needs to be done to insure the future of this group, should be done.

I'd like to hear what the others have to say.

[Jedah Lynch]

Duel membership is the same as alt characters.

Some can keep it straight but not all, depends on the person. Some are much better than others. Thats all I'll say on the issue because nothing good usually comes out on the topic and know shall get heat for probably saying it.

Ironicly enough most of the dual memberships here is with TBH itself and not TSE, only a few in TSE like myself and LV which is due to the alliance that does exist.

Whatever the case if the alliance goes I'll step down in my position since one of the reasons am here is to help maintain good relations between TSE and TSO. If that goes so does a portion of the reason for my being here. Depending on the direction TSO might take might not be able to stay due to one reason or another anyays to be honest. IC so far have not even been Sith like at times even though have had enemies here and know it IC but for OOC reasons tried to avoid that for TSO's sake of being.

One of the problems with TSO is this, many of us are in other groups. LV, LW and Gav I think are basically the only people who put TSO before all other groups due to them having roots right here. Everyone else including I would do our best to help TSO and them which many of us have been doing but our main alligence lies elsewhere when its said and done and we all know that. Some got TBH, some TSE and not sure if there anyone else. *LOL*

The thing TSO needs and I strongly want to make sure some realize this is its needs people who are TSO people. Not TBH, not TSE. not anything. Who that would include. I'm not sure honestly. Too many are in too many groups nowadays and its sure as hell making things stagnet and causing trouble. But there are new people coming to the boards all the time and thats who TSO needs to get, there are always good people but they need to be taught and shown how to be when they get here. If done so many can really help and become a great Rper.

Thats my two bits at least.

[Live Wire]

I agree that dual memberships from here on out should be discouraged. No laws against them of course and those in two groups are not any different. It should just be presented as a good idea to avoid conflicts of interest.


And I think the alliance between us and TSE has to go. Im sorry to be blunt. I've been avoiding saying it out right for the past couple of days. But its got to go. Its negatively effecting our way of life here. We've been seperate for a reason. We've avoided merging for a reason and now its becoming clear that even an alliance is unacceptable. I'd like to have this resolved by the end of the week so if I could just hear yay or nay to this we can expedite matters.

[Jedah Lynch]

Question, exactly what about the alliance is the problem?

Is it the TGE situation or the fact there are some in here who have issues with TSE are in TGE and going to attack TSE?

TSE has if not been lead astray helped TSO in the past when it was attacked. Yet now that TSO feels threatened it is turning tail? Is that the honor you spoke of?

Or is it some are in TBH and they dont like TSE, we all know that and some in TSE dont like them. And since some are on the council TSE is being made out to be the evil place again in typical DT like fashion.

Would like to know the truth in this because seems unfair to say TSE is a problem when equally those in TBH have been an issue at times and their alligences. After all TSE has not attacked or done anything against TSO and encouraged co operation that better protected it due to TSE having a better fleet more people etc.

Yet TSE is being spit upon when some are clearly bias against it yet when some seemingly have issues against others in other groups its "wrong".

I taken offense to that and I'm pretty sick of this double standard.

[Sanis Prent]

Duel membership is the same as alt characters.

Bull. The only people who really believe that...can't separate OOC and IC in the first place, and they're the @#%$ problem, not the fix.

Problems with a character being conflicted in 2 paths are legit enough. But with 2 completely unrelated characters? If these two things are the same...talk to the individual poster before trying to make it policy. Because they are the problem.

[Live Wire]

Im am very grateful for the assitance that tse has provided us in the past. Just as everyone else here is! This isnt about TGE. This isnt about TBH. This is about whats best for TSO.

My allegiance is to TSO and only TSO it always has been and I've made that clearly known.

TSE is a destructive influence and it has been for a long time. The IC and OOC conflicts over there have bred an atmosphere of distrust, hatred, and bitterness. I have fought against merger for just that reason. TSE is unstable and is constantly being torn apart because of internal conflict. Its pathetic but its true. Yes there are good people at TSE but that is the overall personality of the group.

TSO is a group thats about family and trust and cooperation and communication. In the past few weeks that bond has been tried. Why? Because of TSE! That is the bottom line! Im sorry if you dont like it but thats the way it is. Im not going to mince words to make everyone feel better thats just how it is.

TBH has not been an issue at TSO. TSE made it an issue at TSO because that was the source of the unfounded rumors, the accusations and the suspicions! I dont want any part of it. I was for the alliance because this group was founded on a principle that banned all intersith fighting. But now I see that intersith fighting is less destructive then an alliance with TSE. ITs possible to keep the policy against intersith fighting and not be such a close ally with TSE. I refuse to let TSO succumb to the same destructive influcences at work in our sister group.

There is no double standard. If tse was a stable group without the negativity I'd be all for keeping the alliance. If you want an alliance with us then fix the problems at TSE. Till those are rectified I say we get out now.

TSO can survive on its own. We've made it this far and we can do it again. We have smart people here who look out for the best interests of the group DESPITE what the rumor mill puts out.

TSE is destructive! It may not be conquered by another group but it will fall if it doesnt fix its internal problems. I've watched it from the beginning and it doesnt get better, it gets worse! So Im saying enough! I've had enough and I dont think Im the only one whos tired of pulling their hair out over it.

If you want to accuse us of changing sides, turning tail go right ahead! Spread the rumor mill bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- because you dont like truth. The truth is the truth!

[Sanis Prent]

I concur with that assessment.

Let me also say that an end to the alliance isn't necessarily a sure-fire opening of hostilities against TSE. It just enables a lot of independence in decision making.

[Seth Darkserpent]

My thoughts reflect what LW mentioned in her last post.

[Gav Mortis]

I agree on all the afore mentioned statements supporting the motion that the alliance between TSE and TSO has to be terminated.

[Jedah Lynch]

If you want to accuse us of changing sides, turning tail go right ahead! Spread the rumor mill bull-DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- because you dont like truth. The truth is the truth!

Apparantly you think little of me and my presence and since its obvious can no longer co exist here I'll take my leave and end the issue.

And TSE is far greater than TSO has ever been, it has yet to collapse even half as much as TSC/TSO did. Remember that, we were not fools who followed Itala and dumb little ambitious -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-s like Jeseth who whine go crying making pity post to get people on his side.

What a joke.

So choke on whatever you want. My alligence and promise to help safe guard TSO is now at an end.

Apparantly I was only here to help safeguard it until some felt TSE help had outlived its usefullness.

Now I respectfully ask for access to be removed.

Good luck.

[Sanis Prent]

I'll get to your request asap.

[Gav Mortis]

The fog is lifting.

[Garrett Blade]

<FONT SIZE="7" COLOR="magenta">WOOHOO!!!</FONT>

[Seth Darkserpent]

Well now that Jedah's gone, I can truthfully say I'm somewhat relieved. I didn't really like the idea of presenting any of my ideas to the council. This was for fear out of of Jedah shooting them down, or classifying them as me trying to grab power.

Maybe now I can speak my mind, without worrying about TSE breathing down my every move.

Oh, and Garrett....ROFL!!!

You're so blunt in your posts, it's painfully funny >_<

[Live Wire]

Im you guys can laugh about this cause I can't. Im mad and Im hurt. Maybe Im taking it personally but I cant help it.

And if someone sees jedah they can tell him how @#%$ stupid his remark about tso was cause TSE was founded by defecting TSC members the same as TSO was!



*walks off in a puff of rage*


If anyone needs me I'll be cooling off somewhere.