TSO Leaders (new fleet rules)

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

NOTE: these rules are based on current affairs.. when things change so shall the rules

----

ShipYards

All yards are 40km

Yard builds 2.0km a WEEK

Number of yards per faction

New Republic Factions are allowed 5 Shipyards

Imperial Factions are allowed 3 Shipyards

Sith Factions are allowed 2 Shipyards

Gungan Factions are allowed 2 Yards

Jedi Factions are allowed 1 Shipyard

*note- to be deemed a faction you must have more then 5 members

2nd note* the reason the NR has 5 yards is to make things more fair... right now the NR has several enemy factions after them... namly RSO, TSE, TSO, TGE.. those enemys combined have OVER 9 yards greatly out matching the NR..

------

Excludes

No new tech allowed(ie. NSD's ASD's ect. are out)

No ships bigger then a SSD(ie. no SoSd's or ESD's)

No superlasers

No suncruisers

No World Devestators

No Deathstars

No Galaxy Guns

note* if you prove that you can roleplay very well in making or useing any of the above stated you may do so

If you dont understand that what i mean is if you can make a interesting plot about geting and useing the tech then it will be okay.. but if you just do a 10 post thread about geting it then use the tech or ship or what ever in short sentences then dont even bother..

------

Battle Rules

It must be agreed apon both partys to fight

You must allow your enemy time to reply to your post

You must first weaken a ships shields/hull over 10 posts before being able to destroy it

Fighters may be destroyed in 5 posts by a 2km-4km ship, in one post if done by a 5KM ship or larger

*note if a fighter is a fighter pilot character it may not be destroyed but only disabled enless both partys agree on the kill

Dog fights between fighters, you can not destroy a fighter with a fighter enless agreed by both partys(allowed to disable over 10 posts)

-----

Down sizeing- start only

All groups must down size 60%

Down sizing will be supervised by Thrawn to make sure the fleets are fair.. if a fleet is mainly made up of New ships and after down sizing the fleet has about 10 ships then it is a givin that some Sw universe ships will be added

-----------------------------------------



EDIT- took out the 100 ship rule, added a small side note as to what makes a down sized fleet BS

EDIT- changed the down sizing 1 SSD to 10 ISD's rule to a more fair type deal

brought Nr yards down to 5

added gungans yards

changed fighter rule

[Lady Vader]

I cannot speak for all the leaders here, but I will voice my own opinion...

as I read the "rules" I didn't see any problems with it, though it is possible I missed something...

you will have to wait until the others arrive and view this before a decsion is made...

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

alrighty

btw my title rules.. and if you change it to the one i have at GJO i'll kill you

[JediBoricua]

Like Thrawn said GJO already approved this rules and want all the other major and serious group to approve them also.

We know we will get fire from TGE and other "warlord" groups with delusions of grandure, that is why we ask for your help.

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

So to make SoSD and NSD will need a RP to make them and have them take 3 times as long to build?

And I think Super Weapons are Ok, if you make the building time longer. So long that most people will find them useless.

[Darth Viscera]

Those rules are one-sided, and favour the New Republic only. Try again.

[The Lounge Lizard]

I also tend to disagree strongly with these rules.

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"So to make SoSD and NSD will need a RP to make them and have them take 3 times as long to build?"

No, NSD's and SoSd's will be void.. enless you have resources, man power, and money to build them along with a damn good and long streching RP.. mass producing ships of that size will not be allowed


"And I think Super Weapons are Ok, if you make the building time longer. So long that most people will find them useless."

if you do a damn good and long RP making a galaxy gun or Deathstar then it will be allowed.. I know that Gav can roleplay with all of the excludes with out god moding but most people in fleets today can not..



Dv please explain how so.

LL then what needs to be changed.

[The Lounge Lizard]

The territory of the Empire is rather vast now, in comparison to the New Republic. I suggest that the NR shipyards be cut to either 4 or 5.

Also, I think the downsize should be across the board, not only to fleets over 100 ships. If not, a fleet of 101 would find itself far behind a fleet of 99, which is rather inane.

Also, what determines the "BS"-ness of a fleet? I utterly despise that clause.

Also, I think fighters are ridiculously hearty in these rules. They are merely fodder, and saying that an ISD cannot terminally engage a squadron of fighters in one attack is rather a stretch

[Lady DeVille]

As a part of TSO's council I think that these rules are reasonable sounding. Of course, I am only one voice. I am most interested in hearing what LL has to say, as I respect his opinion in these matters...

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"The territory of the Empire is rather vast now, in comparison to the New Republic. I suggest that the NR shipyards be cut to either 4 or 5."

You forget that the Nr has about 5 fleet groups attacking it all the time when you add up all the imperial and sith factions even with 6 yards it is still greatly out matched.. if the Empire was one group i would agree with you but there are 3 imperial factions.. if the Imperials unite then the NR shipyards will go down to 5

Right now the NR owns Kuat the greatest shipyards in the galaxy so i think 6 is fine


"Also, I think the downsize should be across the board, not only to fleets over 100 ships. If not, a fleet of 101 would find itself far behind a fleet of 99, which is rather inane."

agreed


"Also, what determines the "BS"-ness of a fleet? I utterly despise that clause."

well i have to say all the command ships floating around, in defending kuat over 20 command ships were in that battle... that is insane..


"Also, I think fighters are ridiculously hearty in these rules. They are merely fodder, and saying that an ISD cannot terminally engage a squadron of fighters in one attack is rather a stretch"

then how would you change the rules on that aspect?

[The Lounge Lizard]

I'm still leaning towards five on this one, because the possiblility of coordinated attacks have traditionally been quite slim.

Okay...now that you've defined "BS"-ness, I agree. Command ships should not form the main strata of a force, and should only be made in extremely limited quantities.

I would say any capital ship under 2km would take 5 turns to destroy fighters, 2-4 km, 2 turns, and 5+km, 1 turn.

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"I'm still leaning towards five on this one, because the possiblility of coordinated attacks have traditionally been quite slim"

true but as you can see from current events mass attacks in the same time line have been happening...

about 9 NR worlds are being attacked by 4 diferent groups.. TSE, GMA, TGE(now merged with GMA but they did set up an attack to take place as the same time as the coruscant attack) and SIN.. thats alot against one force and enless they have a slight edge posablity for victory is slim...

i'll see what the jedi council thinks on this...


"I would say any capital ship under 2km would take 5 turns to destroy fighters, 2-4 km, 2 turns, and 5+km, 1 turn."

sounds good.. i just had a thoght, fighter pilot characters are poping up and it would piss them off it they got destroyed so how about a fighter can only be disabled if it is played by a character, it would go against basic SWFan rules to kill off a character with out thier say so

[The Lounge Lizard]

The fighter thing sounds good...

As for the shipyards, if you afforded GMA 4 shipyards instead of 3, I see no problem with NR having 6. The reason on this is, GMA controls quite a hefty chunk of space, second only to NR.

Edit: We're remarkably close to coming together on mutually-agreeable fleet rules. I hope we can bridge this one last disagreement.

[Lady Vader]

*listens with interest*

the rules have greatly improved from the original... I know we're trying to keep everyone happy here...

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

Alright i'll make the changes about the fighters and ask the council about the yard deal.

[DarthDarkCloak]

OK HELL NO namely because I have a DS and half of my fleet is new tech CSDs,CSSDS,Nightcrawlers,MOSQUITOS,CWCs, Sentinals, INCUBUS hecubus and Sucubus cruisers each of which I researched properly... and I have spent a LONG time conquering planets to build shipyards on. And there is no way a NR faction should have more yards than an IMP faction. For one the NR gets most of their ships by hijacking IMP and another they are nowhere as rich as the Empire. My compromise is increase the IMP yard number and/or decrease the NR number or equalize the two, and The CURRENT tech stays. I suggest we have everyone report their tech to a neutral board where everyone can view it in an OOC manner. And I get to keep my DS which is under repairs. Hell I gave up alot to purchase my baby and if I lose her t's gonna have to be in a RP.
Note: I do like the superlaser rule though........except for my DS

[Peter L McCoy]

<FONT SIZE="8">FINALLY!!!!!!</FONT>

...the Rock...has come back! To TSO!

In case ayone is wondering, it's me Garrett! I am just logged in as my real name 'cause Garrett is.....running late as it were. He's lost time you see! *Evil grin and laughter*. or is that lost in time? I forget, my watch is broke you see! LOL!

Seriously though! Finally, somebody with a bit op sense and a bit of influence and reputation so that people will listen to him! God knows how long I have wanted this, but nobody would listen to me because I am a nobody in essence.

Anyways, that aside, Thrawn! Well done my lad! I can happily say that you are perhaps the only one besides myself and Gav who has any sense! Although the two of you have more courage than me in speaking up. In actual fact - I thought everybody would have ostricised me if I proposed rules of that nature, namely Gue, @#%$, a few here at TSO, most of RSO, NR, Viscera, all Imp factions though not Jedi, for obvious reasons. Also, another person I thought would reject such rules was.......YOU!

Anways, I have no complaints to those rules, though i thank you for raising the issue about roleplaying large scale projects...

<A HREF="http://pub2.ezboard.com/fswvstitanicstarwarsroleplayingarchive.showMessage ?topicID=2149.topic">The Zeus Project</A HREF>

On a final note, I have to say one thing............

<FONT SIZE="5">The Battle of Hoth</FONT>

...you've all seen the movie - I HOPE! - and you all know what happened! The Imps only attacked with one of their only SSD's and a single Standard Imperial Fleet of Imperial Star Destroyers. Perhaps it was 2 fleets but that makes no difference. They had no need to use more. And even though they were superior to the Rebels, the Rebels still managed to escape Hoth with most, if not all, of their equipment and personnel. So finally things will be rational and realistic! As for TSO Fleets, myself and Dyzm and Lord Psychic will have to discuss how they will be reshaped!

[Lord Dagger]

Out of intrest when you say the number of ship yard per faction, do you mean per planet or total?

[Live Wire]

hmm......I started a discussion thread in our SSC about this for us to talk privately.

[Lord Tavington]

Though I probably have no say in the matter...I'm with Dark Cloak... Existing tech stays and Shipyard numbers should be normalized. I think that getting rid of new technology is unrealistic. Time has passed and mistakes were improved and good things were made better. That's the way things go as far as tech. Of course you can get rid of outrageously powerful technologies. I propose though that building times be set according to the mass of a ship. This is because it is unrealistic for one to build a ship 20 Km long and only several meters in diameter and to take 10 weeks. The more massive a ship the more supplies needed and thus more time to assemble. Superlasers should be allowed but only one per faction on a vessle of their choice be it DS, wraith class SSD, or enslaver class SD. Also in moving fleets for battle they should come in waves... you can't just move a whoole massive fleet all at once...say space it out into groups of ships over a period of time. I don't know... that's my two cents worth. I am willing to negotiate the rules.

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"OK HELL NO namely because I have a DS and half of my fleet is new tech CSDs,CSSDS,Nightcrawlers,MOSQUITOS,CWCs, Sentinals, INCUBUS hecubus and Sucubus cruisers each of which I researched properly... "

Did you ever do a 3 month long RP for your DS?

and i spent along time disinging and building NSD's the EHSD, OF and ASD's.

SwFans fleet rpg sucks, giving up a few things is the only way to safe the rpg

"and I have spent a LONG time conquering planets to build shipyards on. And there is no way a NR faction should have more yards than an IMP faction. "

i spent over a year building yards and conquesting worlds.. igving up a few things is the only way to save swfans fleet rpg


"For one the NR gets most of their ships by hijacking IMP and another they are nowhere as rich as the Empire."

you have to be high right?

the Nr is the greast force in the galaxy.. you forget about 60% of the Nr is TIE.. when i defected things changed


"My compromise is increase the IMP yard number and/or decrease the NR number or equalize the two,"

nope.. one word kuat


"and The CURRENT tech stays. I suggest we have everyone report their tech to a neutral board where everyone can view it in an OOC manner. "

nope, have to do a damn good RP like i did to get a NSD and like what Gav and blade are doing for zues project, only way you can get he tech

"And I get to keep my DS which is under repairs. Hell I gave up alot to purchase my baby and if I lose her t's gonna have to be in a RP."

huh? when did you build a DS? if you bought it from Gue then that DS was destroyd long ago by GMA


"Note: I do like the superlaser rule though........except for my DS"

nope




Cloak i dont really care if you agree or disagree SIN only has two members to my knowlage you and sean and that doesnt make you a imperial faction

------

:lol: garret

you know i am god and they will listen to god :)

I been making the fleet rules since i brought fleet rpg to swfans and my ideas are sane.. plus i know how to go about geting new rules installed.. you dont must j=make a thread at SwFans saying GET RID OF YOUR FLEETS AND START OVER!!!! that gets you nothing

i think the zues project will be legial.. i put a side note for the excludes because i know the people who will take the time to take the new tech or huge ships know how to roleplay with it


"Out of intrest when you say the number of ship yard per faction, do you mean per planet or total? "

total


"Though I probably have no say in the matter...I'm with Dark Cloak... Existing tech stays and Shipyard numbers should be normalized. "

nah

"I think that getting rid of new technology is unrealistic. Time has passed and mistakes were improved and good things were made better. That's the way things go as far as tech. "

if you can do a GREAT! gp about the tech then more power to ya, but if you cant then shut up


"Of course you can get rid of outrageously powerful technologies. I propose though that building times be set according to the mass of a ship."

nah, a ard building 2km a week is a great time


"This is because it is unrealistic for one to build a ship 20 Km long and only several meters in diameter and to take 10 weeks. The more massive a ship the more supplies needed and thus more time to assemble. "

nah to complex


"Superlasers should be allowed but only one per faction on a vessle of their choice be it DS, wraith class SSD, or enslaver class SD."

if you can do a GREAT! rp about gaining then and useing them more power to ya, if not SHUT UP


"Also in moving fleets for battle they should come in waves... you can't just move a whoole massive fleet all at once...say space it out into groups of ships over a period of time. I don't know... "

nah, mass fleet attacks should not be a prob.. if someone does make a HUGE fleet attack the other party can not accept the fight because they dont want to roleplay with a little boy who is a power freak.. garrest made a great point.. the battle of hoth


"that's my two cents worth. I am willing to negotiate the rules."

most of what you said you seem to have ignored my side note on excludes....if you do an oustanding RP about gaining/creating the tech the go for it... but if you end up making a 5 post thread about building a DS (ie what gue did) then dont even bother trying to use it



Jedi have agreed to the 5 the Nr having 5 yards


side note'i had 2 hours sleep and am very bitchy so if i pissed you off deal with it

[Live Wire]

Travington and DDC you are not members of TSO so if you want to debate this take it to another board.

*sighs*

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

yeah! i asked for TSO leaders.. wait till i come to your boards then bitch about things

@#%$ will agree

Dv will agree

SIN dont really care if they do or not i'll just ignore then if they dont

RSO hopfully will agree and if not they arent active enough to cause a rift

TSE not sure

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

:lol: you banned the sodaboys name thats funny

[Live Wire]

lol! Yeah I know those are pretty much the only two curse words at TSO.

[Lord Psychic]

These rules do seem fair.

[Emporer Hades]

I know I'm not a leader...here, of any sort...I haven't even recieved a master yet! But, I would like to state my opinion on this given I am a part of TGE/GMA, and I'm a leader of another Imperial-based group, TGS(it does have more than 5 members even though most of you most likely haven' seen it). Anyway, I really do think that the amount of shipyards for every genre of group should be more even. You all discuss 'realism,' when in truth, you are really excluding the idea of realism by limiting stronger, more spread-out group's power. Also, I believe this fleet down-sizing can be changed. After all, since it is only for seperate fleets, anyone could simply re-proportion their fleets to have exactly 100, or less ships in each. Finally, I think that a new rule of this should be discussed by, and agreed by ALL groups in SWfans. You will just be giving yourselves a disadvantage by agreeing to a limitation rule while other groups aren't even paying attention to it, throwing the balance off even more...

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"I know I'm not a leader...here, of any sort...I haven't even recieved a master yet! But, I would like to state my opinion on this given I am a part of TGE/GMA, and I'm a leader of another Imperial-based group, TGS(it does have more than 5 members even though most of you most likely haven' seen it). Anyway, I really do think that the amount of shipyards for every genre of group should be more even. You all discuss 'realism,' when in truth, you are really excluding the idea of realism by limiting stronger, more spread-out group's power. "

a sith faction of 50 people should never be equal to the NR

you have no vaild point

"Also, I believe this fleet down-sizing can be changed. After all, since it is only for seperate fleets, anyone could simply re-proportion their fleets to have exactly 100, or less ships in each. Finally,"

fleet down sizing shall be super vised by me to make sure it is fair. the fleet leaders will post there fleets then post there down sized fleet, if it isnt fair then they shall re order till it is fair


" I think that a new rule of this should be discussed by, and agreed by ALL groups in SWfans."

who said it wont be?

one step at a time... one step at a time

" You will just be giving yourselves a disadvantage by agreeing to a limitation rule while other groups aren't even paying attention to it, throwing the balance off even more..."

most will agree and those who do not well they are not the type of people we want to roleplay with then.. these rules are fair... they end all problems at swfans in terms of fleets.. only those who want to keep god moding and have HUGE un-realistic fleet will not agree


btw im god :D

[Emporer Hades]

I have nothing against the rules for the Jedi and Sith...I also believe that the Jedi and Sith shouldn't hold huge naval power, because that is not primarily what they are based on unlike the Imperial and NR. But, once the NR has caught up with the Imperials in terms of ships...will you even out the amount of shipyards between the two?

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

GMA and TGE (merged yet they insist they are two seperate groups) have 6 yards together

the Nr has 5

the Nr will not be catching up to imperial fleets enless the sith attack the imps or intra imperial wars start (all highly unlikely)


these rules are based on current events and if they dont work then new rules will be made

[Emporer Hades]

Well...I'll follow Vis on this, since he is now almost the spokesperson for the Imperials...And also...I really don't want to give up these 6 40km shipyards Dace just donated to TGS since there was placement problems in his organization...

[Warmaster Vong]

Don't forget about the Yuuzhan Vong!!! How many shaping grounds (equivalent of a shipyard) are we allowed.

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

how many members do the vong have?

if you count as a faction then i dunno... there is only one vong so 2?

[Warmaster Vong]

There are Five Members actually of the Yuuzhan Vong.

We can live with Two Shaping Grounds for the time, since we still haven't made an IC appearance in the known Galaxy (still located in diff galaxy)

[Warmaster Vong]

As asked by Thrawn. Here is how the Yuuzhan Vong will fix their ways to these rules.

All Designed Vong Technology is to be allowed at SWFans, for all Vong tech is designed, being as there is no official tech in the realm of SWFans or specific data anywhere.

We will have threads about each of our tech designs at SWFans that will be made well, as to be accepted as a legitamite group.

The Three Planets we control int he Vong Galaxy will also be played out in conquering, for legitamicy.

Our fleet will be totally scrapped and remade, according to these rules and RPed.

We will have 2 Shaping grounds to make our ships on.

[Sith Summoner]

Okay i know that you haven't asked for TSE's opinion yet and I'm not going to give it. I just have a couple questions.

1)TSE has no SSD's. We have 3 SoSD's and 1 ESD. Would it be allowable for us to downgrade them to SSD's?

2)The 1 SSD per 10 ISD's. We don't have any ISD's either. Our fleets consist mainly of cruisers, so what would you consider equal. Note: TSE has Strike Cruisers and an offshoot of it Wraith Cruisers, in most tech specs it is said that 2 of these ships equal 1 VSD.

3)Tech. What are we talking here? New ships? new weapon systems? I can understand when it comes to stuff like DS and Galaxy guns but I'm curious how limited we are getting. As someone has said, time has past, it is only logical that some new tech should be allowed within reason of course.

With those questions posed I'll bring this up to TSE now so we are ready when you come calling

[Dark Lord Dyzm]

I was wondering the Same Thing, Down Grading our Ships?

Each Fleet has 1 SoSD or ESD.
What if we Downgrade them to SSD's?
And the SSD's Downgrade to 3-4 Impstar Dueces?

[Emporer Hades]

Ack, what's with all of this down-grading? If you keep downgrading you'll soon end up with millions of squadrons of fighters...Anyway, what groups have agreed to this new rule thus far?

[Grand Adm Thrawn]

"1)TSE has no SSD's. We have 3 SoSD's and 1 ESD. Would it be allowable for us to downgrade them to SSD's?"

good question... dunno.. will ave to work it would later


"2)The 1 SSD per 10 ISD's. We don't have any ISD's either. Our fleets consist mainly of cruisers, so what would you consider equal. Note: TSE has Strike Cruisers and an offshoot of it Wraith Cruisers, in most tech specs it is said that 2 of these ships equal 1 VSD."

well sith really shouldnt have command ships.. i doubt the jedi will have any


"3)Tech. What are we talking here? New ships? new weapon systems? I can understand when it comes to stuff like DS and Galaxy guns but I'm curious how limited we are getting. As someone has said, time has past, it is only logical that some new tech should be allowed within reason of course."

all tech, use what is from the sw universe

if you can come up with a bad ass thread or threads in search of some tech or building some ship then go for it


the rules need a bit more.. ill try to figure up a dow grading system so those with only tech they made up will think these rules are fair

[Darth Viscera]

Ahhhhh!! Must....invade...universe. Hurry up, please. This is bananas, and I'm trigger-happy.

[Lord Dagger]

Standing out on a limb here, i think the rules are fair although throughout my experiance i have always founf the bigger the better but i suppose big fleets are difficult to manage. And i know you havern't asked me yet but TDG agrees, and yes we are a faction because we do have 5 members