Council Vote on: Lance Casey.......!!!

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Please read this thread:

pub56.ezboard.com/fgjofrm...D=64.topic (http://pub56.ezboard.com/fgjofrm4.showMessage?topicID=64.topic)


I originally showed Sage this. We are now asking the council to vote on this.

I do NOT approve of Casey coming back. But if you like we can have a council vote. That whole bit last year mocking and insulting you, Dt, Fett, Hart and myself in the bar last year..was just too awful to me to even consider this guy back. He was just so vulgar.

Let me know what you want to do

[Sage Hazzard]

OOC -

I read it. We have to have a Council vote. I vote NO, and that will never change. I'm not going to refuse training him though if he's accepted. Since I know he's a hard case if he is accepted, I should train him, I know how he works.

But I'd rather him not be allowed to join. But we must vote. I believe the majority of the council will vote Ney anyhow, but we still must go through with the procedure.

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

OOC: Agreed Sage..I edited this post for the votes. Thank you.

[Sage Hazzard]

OOC - Was the final council decided today? Wasn't today the deadline? Whatever it is my vote won't change.

If I am a council member officially, I vote ney. If the votes are not final yet, and I am not a council member, I am speaking from experiance. I was his Master. He used the old "evil clone" story to excuse his actions, but we know OOC that he is nothing more then slime.

[JediBeldarine]

Well I've been given the go ahead to vote...

And honestly, from everything I heard..

It's a no on my part.

[Figrin D an]

I'm normally a pretty forgiving person, and willing to give people second chances...

However, Lance Casey displayed an utter OOC contempt for many people on this board... I personally had to close threads of his on more than one occasion for such behavior and, as a board administrator, nearly decided to ban him of my own volition following one incident in particular... IMO, he has no business being allowed to post on this board, much less return as a member of our group...

I emphatically vote NO on this issue....

[ReaperFett]

Actually, I think it was Nup, not Hart


ANyway, he insulted OOC. Not IC, OOC. So, I vote we throw him down a large pit, let him rot away, and let the worms fight the rats for his remains

[Nupraptor]

Instead of responding, don't you think a ban would be appropriate?

[ReaperFett]

Ill drink to that too. If we say no, can we trust him to not do anything?

[Sage Hazzard]

If we say no he'll throw a tantrum and go on a destruction mission aimed at bringing the Jedi down. But since he sucks as a fighter and RPer, we don't need to worry. Reply to him in a thread, giving the answer, then ban him. ISP ban.

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

I agree. I don't like him. It was an all out OOC attack on many of us. Plan rude and vulgar. I also think he should be banned and IP too!!

[ReaperFett]

see you changed from demanding an ISP ban then Leia:)

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

:lol: Fett....you are too much!! Yep...silly me!!

[Sage Hazzard]

OOC - I've been wondering, is this final? Has he been given the news?

I want everyone to know that my character will still be nice to Lance. If Lance wants to do a thread with him, fight along side him against a bad guy, whatever he does in the future, I will not be rude. His character is supposed to be better, since the bad one was supposed to be a clone. So technicly Sage would accept this and treat Casey well. So I must act like nothing OOC happened while in RPs. This will take a great deal of restraint on my part to not chop off his head. But I must not abandon my RPing and Writing beliefs. Nothing OOC comes IC.

[Liam Jinn]

ah, his OOC attack on you guys makes it alright for you guys to do the same on him?

[Warren Azalin]

Liam, no one is attacking him OOC, well at least not as he did to us before. Lance acted like an ass when leaving and insulted a whole lot of people including all the padawans at the time, everyone just is agreeing not to let him back. To do the same he did to us would be stupid and childesh, banning him for his earlier actions is the right thing to do. And if we still have the vote course mine at the moment is

<font size=4>NO</font>.

[Master Yoghurt]

I vote no

[Liam Jinn]

"But since he sucks as a fighter and RPer.."

What kind of attack is that?

[ReaperFett]

you forget something. Lance is meant to be banned at GJO, we just didnt redo the ban.

The sucks as fighter... bit is a bit harsh though, at least he does fight/RP

[Liam Jinn]

Don't see why you don't give him another chance.

[ReaperFett]

why? Why should we? So we can wait until he does it again?

[Liam Jinn]

You don't know if he will do it again, and even if he does, how hard is it to re-ban him? Its not like anyone is going to loose any sleep over letting him back in. Why don't you give him a trial period?

[ReaperFett]

so if theres no point not letting him have a chance, why ever ban? Heck, who cares that he got personal, lets roll out the red carpet!

[Liam Jinn]

Fett, how much of what he said did you take seriously? And if anyone took it seriously, why?! I thought everyone thought he was a dumbass, why would people care what a dumbass says?

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

**calmly**

Liam...If he called you for letter words and used obscenity. I BET you would not be saying this! Now please don't tell me otherwise. He was plan disgusting.

You know I have always given him a fair chance even when others didn't then he did that. The guy is untrustworthy and BTW...

Where's the apology?

There is none!! I think even Sage asked him for one....

He can't be sorry for his actions then..simple as that or sincere for that matter.

[ReaperFett]

ok, heres the point. He acts like an -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR-. He insults a few people. He gets banned. He then swans back in, with no apologies or anything, and makes up some clone crap. Why should we forgive him?

He hasnt done anything to redeem himself, but we are meant to welcome him with open arms. Screw that

[Nupraptor]

Liam, your incessant support of Lance is dumbfounding and honestly quite tiresome. Lance is not being let back, so just drop it.

[TUJK]

*Step forward*

Yeah, I've been a bit quiet lately. But, I do have something to say.

The jedi cannot preform atonment, they cannot accept a rouge member into thier midst. They can offer support, they can listen, but they can't grant forgiveness for anything that one has not atoned for.

Lance has not put forth even an appology, let alone begun the long hard road of atonemnt for his actions.

I'm more than willing to tell him to "Get the f*** out of here and don't come back". He shows no regret, no concern for his previous actions, so basically, he can walk on.

[Liam Jinn]

Ok, I'll let it go..

[JediMaster Skywalker]

lets see, Lance ooc's everyone what was it once maybe twice.

ok, stone pissed everyone off what 4 or 5 times before he was banned.

you may not like lance, you may even hate his guts. but don't you think it took guts just to come around and ask to be let back in.
<FONT COLOR=RED>
rule # 1 on rp's and im's

<FONT SIZE=6>[b][i][i]<FONT COLOR=RED>
DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL!!!

<FONT SIZE=3>
A JEDI LEARNS TO FORGIVE AND FORGET.

[Nupraptor]

DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL!!!


A JEDI LEARNS TO FORGIVE AND FORGETA.)We are NOT Jedi OOC. And this is entirely OOC.

B.) He makes personal insults, people are going to take it personally.

[Liam Jinn]

well, if this was entirely OOC, then why can't he be let back in? Thats IC not OOC..

[Nupraptor]

Because, believe it or not, OOC reasons influence your standing. Same reason why someone who was known to leak information OOC wouldn't be let into the Temple Avalon.

[Liam Jinn]

different circumstances

[Sage Hazzard]

OOC - My opinion is he is not a good RPer. I'm entitled to that. Although I am angry right now, and rightfully so. I apologise for saying that, because stooping to his level is the wrong thing to do.

Did you read the post in question Liam? Just wondering.

True, what he did was OOC not IC. But should we not hold people to a high standard OOC also? Let's say you had some friends that came over and held a RL RPing game with dice and everything. One day one of your friends insults everyone calling them four letter words, racist insults, and accusing people of homosexuality.... Would you ever let that person back in your house, or even speak to him? NO!

Although, perhaps he was going through a lot. Maybe he had a terrible personal life where he had bad breaks. He might of looked to these boards as a way to escape. And since he didn't get large respect and wasn't promoted for a while, he felt hurt. So he lashed out in anger. If he apologised openly and told everyone what he was going through, I might be more open to giving him another chance. But I saw NO thread. Using the example above, I would forgive my friend possibly if he apologised and asked for forgiveness. But instead he says it was his Evil Clone, as if that could help OOC reasons.

If he apologises, asks for forgiveness, and then is willing to wait and continue to RP, showing that he has changed through his actions.... In a months time, I might be willing to accept him back.... But that's a BIG maybe. Where I come from if someone says something like what he said about me, that person is in a heap of trouble, and will never speak to me again. He used every mainstream bad word, every racist comment, and every homesexual comment. And he actually took the time to insult me personally, along with a few others. He has a LOT of explaining to do.

[Liam Jinn]

Yeah, I read the post. Well, I'll stop defending him as long as no one else "stoops to his level"

[Nichos Marr]

I change my vote no on this matter. Nup was nice enough to inform me fully on the things Lance did. Not only am I disgusted that a fellow human being would say such, but I am also quite mad at myself for saying yes in the first place. What Lance did cannot be excused, ever.

[Ryla Relvinian]

Just to open this up, who actually saw, word for word, what he posted? I would hardly call that "a few swear word names."

IMHO, though I'm not on the council, I think he should be banned. I don't even care what your family background, home life, or mental health is, but you should have to have the common sense not to insult people, be disrespectful, call people f*gs, or any such nonsence. Even if he made up a good, cohesive storyline to back up his little clone theory, (which is another rant of mine altogether....) I still would have a hard time letting him in.

[JediMaster Skywalker]

don't you think you should base your votes on the facts and not hear say, in other words read it for your self. don't take someone else's word for it., what bothers one person may not bother someone else.

just my 2 cents...

[ReaperFett]

ok, when Leia appears, ask her to post it. In case Im asleep, let me just say something:

Main Entry: race
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza
Date: 1580
1 : a breeding stock of animals
2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics [the English race]
3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type
4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition
5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength



He was being racist. Some people take the mick of English. Theyre having fun. He wasnt

[JediMaster Skywalker]

there's a saying they use to a some still tell their kids when they are being picked on in school


it starts like this

STICKS AND STONES

i think you get the picture

:p

[ReaperFett]

yes, and some of the KKK say but words. Does that make them ok?

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

**walks in and puts the evidence right here for Luke to see**

Dear brother..I have saved the original post please click the below link and see for your own self..what Mr. Casey said about us. Tell me now what you think.

The original thread ended up being edited and deleted because it was rude and even got worse. I saved the original as proof before anything else happened to the thread.

Here it is... Exhibit A:

www16.brinkster.com/jedim...rd_com.htm (http://www16.brinkster.com/jedimaster/I%20am%20tired%20of%20it%20all%20-%20www_ezboard_com.htm)

[ReaperFett]

I just love his CT. It was for something else, but seems ironic now:)

[JediMaster Skywalker]

OK LEIA I READ IT AND AFTER READING IT I WOULD HAVE TO SAY:


I stand by my earilier argument; hey everyone makes mistakes, or has a bad day, week, year etc.

i read it with an open mind and it did not shock me into a corner. but since EVERYONE here is perfect i guess that means that us peasants screw up once and we are ban city.

give me a break & grow up people


c ya

Luke

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Umm...Luke?!

*sigh* Grow up?!!

Listen..I still say this is open for discussion. If people want to have him back on a trial basis...so be it.

But you didn't have to go screaming at me here. And..I am sorry Luke..but the guy is RUDE!!! No two ways about it!! It will take a lot of convincing for me to believe he has changed. I believe I have dealt with him more than you have and seen what he is capable of.

But ya know what..I don't feel like screaming and arguing about this.

How about this...you train him Luke!! If he is accepted back Luke..since you want to give him a fair shake and prove everyone wrong. You train him and make him a respectable knight!

DEAL???!!!

[Liam Jinn]

If Luke doesn't want him, I might train him..again..if he's accepted..

[Warren Azalin]

If he is accepted back first of all, thats a bif if.

[Sage Hazzard]

Okay, listen. He said he wanted me, and I won't turn him down if he still wants me. IF he's let back in.

He's a good guy. Other then that one thread a while ago he was a cool guy, atleast to me anyway. He never had any problems or difficulties with me either, and we got along great. So his outburst tells me he was angry and lashed out. Since it really came out of left field, it tells me he doesn't truely feel that way. His dad apperantly was going to take away his computer. His father also didn't want him doing this RP for some reason. He hated his job. And he was miserable. Maybe he wasn't doing so great and felt this RP was the only thing he could win. The only thing he could control. But then his father was going to take it away. He would have exploded. And I get the feeling he's a hothead, so that adds fuel to his fire.

I'm not sure anymore. He's not that bad a guy. Maybe we should tell him to RP without the Jedi for a month and we'll judge him again on his new image. Everyone desearves a second chance I suppose.

Yeah, I never thought I'd say these things either.

[Liam Jinn]

*Pats Sage on the back.*

Its about damn time someone other than me and Luke relized this..

[Figrin D an]

There are some points that it seems are being selectively ignored or are simply not being made clear...


Everyone deserves a second chance I suppose.

Most definately... I agree with this, and as I said, I am normally a very forgiving person and willing to allow people to show that they are worthy of a second chance... provided that the person understands WHY he/she fell into bad graces, expresses REMORSE over what happened and demonstrates a willingness to make AMENDS...

The whole 'evil clone' excuse is an irrelevent argument. His comments were made OOC and were derogitory in nature. He was warned that his actions were unacceptable behavior, yet he persisted. Let's also not forget that this wasn't the first time that he had to be warned by administrators for inappropriate behavior.

Let's say, for a moment, that his life sucked at the time. Let's say that all that has said is true, about his job being horrendous and his dad threating to take away his computer. Let's say that, because of this and his anger about not being promoted IC more quickly, he lashed out in anger towards the people on this board. We're all prone to outbursts now and then. Things happen that upset us, and we express that anger. That's just human nature. The problem here is that Lance's outburst was not just random splatterings of anger... it was directed and focused. Certain people were targets of his rage... it's hard not to take that personally if you were one of the targets...

Lance has offered excuses for his behavior... I have yet to see any sign of genuine remorse on his part. If he wants to be a part of this group again he needs to:

1) Acknowledge that his behavior was unacceptable
2) Show remorse for his inappropriate actions.
3) Apologize, individually, to those people that he insulted.
4) Apologize to the entire board for his outburst.
5) Demonstrate that he has changed and will not be prone to such incidents again.

If he meets these requirements in full, I'd be willing to give him another chance. If not, it just indicates that he's not truely serious about becoming a member of our community again. He destroyed the bonds of friendship with many people on this board and if he wants to rebuild those bonds, he has to take the initiative and be willing to put in the extra effort to regain the trust of the community.




but since EVERYONE here is perfect i guess that means that us peasants screw up once and we are ban city.

No one here is claiming to be perfect and have all of the answers. We are all prone to outbursts of anger and other emotions. We're human, and that's what humans do. However, as humans, we also have the ability to reason and the ability to set standards of behavior by which our social groups are governed. When those standards are not met, we punish the offending party, because the integrity of the community must be maintained according to the standards that have been established.

Everyone messes up from time to time. No one here is denying that. No one that makes a 'mistake' is going to be punished by permenant banning. The 'mistake' may require some form of disciplinary action, but the punishment will fit the offense. Lance's actions were particularly heinous, and his final 'goodbye' outburst was not the first time that he had been warned about egregious behavior. In that instance, a banning was deemed appropriate by a consensus of the administrators of the board. Banning is not something that is taken lightly by a great many of us. Some of us, unfortunately, have a great deal of experience with this per our involvement at other boards. It is never an easy decision, and is often one that is debated at great length before it is carried out. Being forced to ban someone is not a pleasent experience, but it is a necessary at times. In this case, unfortunate as it may be, it was necessary.


If Lance agrees to abide by the standards of this community and make amends for his actions, he is worthy of a second chance. If not... that's his problem, not ours, and it certainly is not a problem that we will allow him to deal with on this board.

[ReaperFett]

ok, thisll be good. Sith think we look weak. He can do it all again, we have to pretend we want him

this wasnt a one off, he had been a little arsey in other topics before.

And hey, forgive and forget eh! Lets welcome back all the people who tried to infiltrate GJO! And, lets let Itala join! Because hey, forgive and forget!

Also, it was convenient how this came at around the same time he started moaning about not getting enough recognition. So, dont be suprised if he does it again

And, strange how his apology thread appeared 12 hours after I said he hadnt. Peculiar

ANd Ive had big problems OOC before. I didnt go and insult an entire group though, did I? But silly me, forgive and forget eh? Not happening for me

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Figrin... makes very valid points. That pretty much sums it up.

Fett..is right. Lance has done quite a bit of things wrong. And YES..we all have had bad days, but you know what..you deal with it and DON'T take it out on people. There is NO excuse for that!! And he did!

So please don't tell me about being fair..I give everyone a fair shake some times more than others. And I tell you he WILL do it again. It is this guys nature and he really is not sincere. But..prove me wrong..Qui Gon (LUKE) ;) !!

[ReaperFett]

also, mst remember, we never unbanned him. If FOx hadnt made us leave, hed still be gone.


Anyway Luke, seeing as you want him in so desperately. I have a suggestion. YOU train him. Not Liam, not Sage, noone else. YOU. Wether he gets in or not, train him. Follow the GJO standards, no matter what. Well see if hes really interested in this or not. Your call, dare to try?

[JediMaster Skywalker]

<strike>that would be fine except for one problem, and leia can attest to this, i have not taken on ANY padawans do to the main reason of not being able to give gjo my undivided attention. RL restraits don't give me enough time but if lance will bare with me from time to time then i have no objections. otherwise i believe it wise to let lance choose his trainer.

but go ahead and make the next decision i will await....... ..... .... ... .. .</strike>
i wash my hands of this subject, sorry for the interruption

[Jedi Knight Leia Solo]

Huh?! Luke....

::is confused::

Well..this seems to be at a stance still can everyone please state their opinons on this matter now.

Thank you.