Some Information For All Of You

[Jeseth Cloak]

Though I'm not active at SWForums I'm going to remain active here when I can get online.

Trace: Please send me a PM to your thread so we can get it done and you can finally get access here. :)

Everyone: Recently De'Ville, Taylor, and I discussed revamping the group, because in the past there have been too many problems. One of them was that this forum was easily a way for IC arguements to become OOC arguements. So these are some new things that will be implemented pending a short discussion.

This forum will become IC ONLY. No OOC discussions will take place here and all existing OOC threads will be moved to a seperate forum. If any OOC posts are made here, or comments, they will be moved (or removed) from the posts and threads they were made in.

Every forum save one (that would be open to everyone, not just TBH members) will be IC only. This is because there's no reason to hide anything OOC here. If anyone has any objections speak now so that they may addressed.

Some of the other changes are going to be brought up, but I'm short on time and I can't do it. De'Ville, Taylor, you guys pretty much already know so if you want to bring the rest of these things up feel free to.

[TheHolo.Net]

Let me clarify something here real quick. TBH was a group that was not going to have a single leader, a group that was going to be run with every member having the exact same amount of influence when it came to decisions and implementations of ideas. This was as far as I knew, from way back when. Is this not correct?

[Shawn]

That is correct, SWFans.

While the idea *sounds* good, Jes, I don't think it would work well in implementation. I'm sure that some OOC discussions would probably be handled better in private. Just my opinion.

[Morgan Evanar]

I agree with Nup. Some things just aren't anyone's but our bussiness. Avalon is still locked for that very reason. I don't want some jackass who's opinion is irellevant interjecting on an important matter.

While its nice not to have anything to hide, I don't want the scenario above occoring.

[Kar'h'tzen Shaed]

I agree. I would suggest having two OOC forums if you wanted one that absolutely everyone can access.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I agree that discussions about IC stuff should be done IC (a cool idea which sets us apart somewhat from other groups) there are a few OOC discussions that we might want to have here.

Such as, if we had to ban someone and needed to discuss it. OR if there was something else...

Perhaps a locked OOC forum, and this one, the IC locked forum. And then an OOC unlocked forum?

As to the other changes, he had suggested an updated Dark Jedi code, which all members of the Hand would have to swear to. I don't have a copy of it.

Also, different levels for the apprentices..like seven levels. And so on and so forth.

My question is this: Does one become eligable to be sworn in as a full member (with equal say) when one is promoted to Knight from Apprentice? I have an apprentice, Shaed here, and he isn't a full member, he's just my apprentice.

We also have Jibrelle, Hob's apprentice, and a few RPers that YOU, Jeseth, have promoted.

I know Jehova is dying to get in here. But thats in another thread.

I have to agree with Morgan...although people will always wonder what we talk about in closed doors. Let them wonder! We'd have a locked forum anyway.

How about this for a compromise: IC discussions in here, and RELEVANT OOC discussions. OOC comments deemed not "locked forum" worthy could be moved out to this other, unlocked forum. ? hmmm?

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm against needless seperation and catagorizing. I honestly think the people here could handle a forum that was both OOC and IC. In other words, screw the seven level madness, and aside from an open OOC forum, screw another forum.

"Seven Levels" - It has been, and always will be, about RP experince. If we let something in, the person has something serious to contribute IC, and OOC they know how to handle themselves in some way. Far as I see it, there's always been a gradient, all the way from some new street pizza to the masta of the Farce.

The neutral gray are the knights, the begging is the squish, and the end is the vhoopass. And I think, if you're in TBH, you make it pretty clear where you are in the gradient through RP. In theory, we could just go "Apprentice." and after that, its up to you.

[Arya Ravenwing]

True.

Less confusion among people then..as to what "level" they're on.

TBH has always seemed to me like..a sort of 'elite' group. Not that OOC we think we're elite, but IC, TBH does not accept just anyone.

And I always thought that apprentice level people were not full members until they graduated? But that probably varies from person to person.

[Taylor Millard]

WHile the idea of levels is nice...it may be a bit too complicated...but it's something worth considering.

The code idea I like though...and something I'd be fine with having.

But considering the lack of 'Net access I'll have for a few weeks, I'll let you guys decide.

As for OOC and IC forums, I think this group is mature enough to not have IC arguments to become OOC arguments and vice versa.

And I would keep this forum locked...but again I'll let you guys decide.

If you do need me to make a decision, you can call me- 214-552-7162 and I will trust whoever calls me that they'll say what I say. Thanks guys.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Also...I haven't been a member for very long, and don't really know whats up.

Just so you know. :p I don't want to upset the boat with my opinions. So whatever the majority decides, if its NOT too horrible, I'll go along with it.

[Taylor Millard]

ANd being the newest person to RPing in general, with levels...I dunno...what're the levels at GJO?

I know TSO is Apprentice, Knight, then Master.

How're the levels different at GJO or (gasp) TSE?

[Morgan Evanar]

TSE is the only group that offers variance in the common ranking system. They have Warrior and Lord, which Knight is sandwhiched between.

Anyway, I talked to Carlos today, and he conceeded to my points. If I recall correctly, he said that he would post tommorow, and also expressed enthusaism regarding the layout I designed.

[Arya Ravenwing]

Cool :)

[Jeseth Cloak]

Here I am again. In response to your inquiry, SWFans: No, TBH doesn't have any set leader. It's mostly an anarchy, though I still think it's up to the members to take initiative if they want to get anything done around here.

As far as a ranking system, after a lot of thought I figured maybe it's time for us to actually consider having at least a bare 3 ranks, of Apprentice, Knight, and Master. Mostly because for one thing, while it's great not to have ranks, it doesn't acknowldge the hard work people have commited to IC. The Jedi have ranks; there's no reason for the Dark Jedi not to have the same ones. I've promoted people to Knight status, but those 'Knights' are not Dark Jedi Knights. I've yet to train an apprentice to the rank of Dark Jedi Knight, because for all intents and purposes it's non-existant right now.

As for the categories, while it's nice to think that things will always remain IC only, and that we don't need the seperation, it's better to be safe than sorry. It'd be a good move to have a seperate section for the discussion of OOC issues, (a private section if you'd all like). TBH has been nearly dead for the last few months and there's nothing that can be done due to the fact that a never ending tribunal is required to settle any issues that come up that are really only relevant IC-wise. It'd be better to have the seperate forums because this way if a meeting needs to be held by our characters regarding group issues, to make group decisions, we won't be set back if someone is currently inactive, someone has some issues dealing with seperation of reality and fantasy, or anything that might arise. It assures that the group can kick going regardless of who's around.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Oh yeah, and I really liked Morgan's new layout. It looked great!

[Taylor Millard]

Why not something like 4 ranks : Initiate (or Apprentice), Knight, Minor-Lord, and Lord...

I dunno why I like those, but that's jut me.

Okay so what do we really think about having 'ranks'? With there being no real set leader (although there are definately RPers I look to in regards to making decisions OOC)- we might want to reconsider the 'ranks' and just have Initiate and Lord...but that's up to y'all to decide.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

I have things to add to this, but will have to do so later.

Thank god for the quick reply form!

[Morgan Evanar]

newb, mid, experineced. I'm not very particitular what they're called.

[Evil Hobgoblin]

Ranks: Apprentice, Knight, and Master are all we really need. Hob will be a Dark Jedi Knight soon enough.

Leadership: Okay, so we understand new people defer to those who've been here longer. Good idea, except it provides a bureaucratic level of red tape we don't need. Here's what I propose.

I will be the interim leader of TBH, a sort of shadowy Grandmaster in the nature of Darth Sidious. I've been working towards an angle where Hob declares his own importance anyway, so this is a move that makes sense. When Jeseth returns to a more participitory role, he can decide what authority he would like to have. Once he figures out where he stands, we can probably add a third member to make it a full Tribunal and give us dedicated leadership much like the SWFans Administrator/Moderator system, which I like very much.

So as the self-promoted leader of the group, here are our new policies. (Feel free to consider these openly amongst yourselves as suggestions; I am not seriously promoting myself right now without anyone else's approval. :D)

1. Your roleplaying is in your hands. If you have an idea, post about it here and go do it. Complicated plans involving more than one member are subject to discussion, but TBH shouldn't be about a rank-and-file system of planning like the military. We're all supposed to be selfish Dark Jedi who've come together to advance our own causes through mutual support. Our actions should reflect that kind of independence. We have limited ourselves some ways with the "equal voice" idea, and we need to keep that open-mindedness while not letting it effectively block our roleplay ideas through lack of group input.

2. If you want to bring a member into the group, post about it here. I'm a fairly decent judge of character, and where I fall short Jeseth usually picks up the slack. The two of us should be able to make a concurrent decision on what to do with a new recruit. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU ACTIVELY HUNT FOR POTENTIAL RECRUITS! As Jes and others have mentioned, we've been mostly dead for the past several months, and that will only change through participation.

3. Secrets are things we all know how to keep. Try not to spread info outside of the group unless you trust the source to go along with your plans. Information sharing is something that has caused quite a bit of trouble in the past and we want to stop that kind of thing.

I have a feeling there's more, but that's all I can think of right now. I will post again later, if I have something new to say.

[Shawn]

I like the idea of an "initiate" rank.

Initiate >> Dark Jedi >> Dark Jedi Master ?

[Evil Hobgoblin]

I sort of meant the "rank" thing as just a base to go by. We can call them whatever we want, and an Initiate rank does sound like a good idea.

Perhaps new Initiates can perform some sort of sacrifice to be admitted. A twisted version of the personal sacrifice needed for a Padawan to reach the rank of Jedi. :)

[Jeseth Cloak]

I'm in favor of the propositions made by Hob. I'll be willing to go along with this tribunal. Perhaps it should be left up to everyone to use their judgement and decide what matters need to be addressed and what doesn't. This will also cut the bearuacracy down to a minimum since we won't have to debate the slightest plans for roleplays.

Ranks, I am in favor of. It's too much trouble to not have ranks because even chaos needs order of some sort. Perhaps we can have this:

Initiate: Someone being teained by a Knight or Master weho is not a TBH member. These people would be under the thumb of all TBH members (IC) and would pretty much have to commit sacrifices for the group in order to be admitted.

Apprentice: A member of TBH in training who has made his sacrifices but isn't a Knight yet. Both Initiates and Apprentices are considered to be of the same level of ability.

Knight: Self explnatory. Knights have gone through whatever tasks their masters have set out and are able of acting on their own accord, and advancing by themselves.

Masters: Have reached the final pillar of power and ability, either by self promotion, or by the will of all the masters of TBH.

So it's a 4 rank system, though technically it's also a three rank system. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

This works for me.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Looks good to me.