Hello.

[Jingo Genrio]

Hello, I'm new here. I have a friend on here, Sten and Dawnstrider. Both of them. Anyways, I just wanted to say...

What the heck did I do to get banned again? C'mon guys. Ok, look. I'm not gonna get angry. I'll just try to say my part of the story...Ok, I had some friends, Yes they were roudy and no, they didn't want to really RPG on this thing. But I do! Besides, you can't really ban me from Ezboard and carry that over to vBoard. If you ask me, that's more dictartorship than democracy, and last time I checked, I still lived in America. Maybe the rules are different where you are, but here it's pretty simple. You do something, you're punished (Banned for 6 months, I think that's more than enough) - Then I fight through loads of Ezboard crap to try to find you guys again, and this is the welcome I get. Well, I want you to do this for me. I know you admins hate my guts, but you have to hear the people's voice. I still wanna RP, I always have. My friends just wanted to play around, but I didn't. I'm serious about it and I'd like to know if anyone that remembers me wants me back. Be honest because Dawnstrider knows me pretty well and will let me know. Don't hurt my feelings. If you don't like me, say it. But if you really think I need to be banned permanently for one stupid post, I think you need to consider your own posts, check over some of them from back at Ezboard. Ok, that's it. I'm out for now.

- Dreyas

PS - Remember the IC as well as OCC now.

[Gav Mortis]

Personally, although I didn't voice my opinion earlier, now I will say that if we are meant to be a friendly community, the way this guy has been treated since he returned after his banning was a bit heartless and doesn't reflect that. I mean, treat those how you would like to be treated yourself. I for one think it would be nice to see a little bit of forgiveness and it takes guts for this guy to come back like this now after the way he was embarressed and spoken about in public.

My two cents.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I like you!

besides, I am still using your music you wrote on my Video project for Dixon's class. "Advertising" of couse.

[Marcus Telcontar]

If you ask me, that's more dictartorship than democracy, and last time I checked, I still lived in America

That is absurd and a complete load of crap. It has nothing to do with being in the USA, Pakistan, Ukestan or Minivan.




Other than that, I dont care less. You got fairly banned and if you want a second chance, ask the adimns, dont appeal to the roleplayers. Recinding bans has got nothing to do with us. Convince THEM that your worthy of a ban reversal.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I respect you alot Marcus, but disagree with you 110% on this issue. I was taught to forgive and forget. I agree that Dreyas was banned for a good reason. He said some things that were not cool. That was 10 months ago. That is almost a year.

This is a RP community. We came here to RP with other people. I fe el it is not right that a few people can select what and who gets to do what. I am not calling for a revolutio n. I have been here for 2 1/2 years. I have had little problems. You said that he should not appeal to the RPers. Those are the people he will be effecting. If he should only worry about the Admins, he can be the world's biggest -DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR--DO-NOT-SWEAR- as long as the Admins think it is ok. That is wrong. Justice was servered. He was banned. Now he has come to ask for people to forgive what he has done and be given a second chance. You say not to appeal to teh RPers. Do you expect him only to RP with admins?

I do not wish to get on a religous debate, but Jesus said to forgive. How can any of us claim to be doing the right thing if we can not forgive and forget? That is how I was taught. I have had many people here say and do things I do not agree with. I forgive, Why? It is the right thing. I will agree he should be watched though. He screwed up once, and needs to be watched if given back access.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The admins run this site. I dont. You dont. They may do so on the behest of the players, but my point remains - it doesnt matter what he says or who says it.

Unless the Admins recind the ban and THEY believe he can be given a second chance, it's just a waste of breath.

Now I do have a opinion on this, it may meet with yours. I also have an opinion on Gue's banning as well. However, does that have a place being spoken out? Am I just wasting my time if the Admins are not convinced or see things different?

Basically, yes. So my advice is PM the admins and convince THEM he can be trusted with a ban reversal. If the admins think it okay, maybe they will. Or maybe they will put the question out back to the players, at which time it is our place to listen.

I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong, i'm just making what I think is a valid suggestion and way forward if he's serious.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I agree with ya on that. We both have our options. I am not saying I am right, or you are right. Like you said, it is just out opions. If what your saying is a sugestion, then I will have to agree with ya. Me nor you can tak ethe ban away. He will have to ask the Admins.

[Sanis Prent]

"Permanent Ban" does not equate into "Ban for a reeeally long time, and then we might find it in our heart to forgive." There is no reprive or parole stated in such a banning, and the consequences were laid out to you all that time ago, and you still broke the rules.

If this were the case, we might as well let Itala back here, or some of the really destructive trolls from years back.

[Morgan Evanar]

1st.

Foot the bill or contribute in a major way and then open your mouth. You all are playing on something someone else payed for, and I don't see a lot of apreciation for it.

2nd.

Ban= Ban. You were probably warned, and then continued to screw up bad enough to warrant it. We don't ban lightly here, and if it happend, it happend for a damn good reason.

3rd.

Ban not carry over? Last I checked, a good number of the same people still ran the board. It still says "SW Forums" at the top, right?

VBulletin doesn't magically make your screwups go away.

[Jehova Eaven]

Follow my example; ban everyone, including yourselves... that would be amusing. At least to me.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
"Permanent Ban" does not equate into "Ban for a reeeally long time, and then we might find it in our heart to forgive." There is no reprive or parole stated in such a banning, and the consequences were laid out to you all that time ago, and you still broke the rules.

If this were the case, we might as well let Itala back here, or some of the really destructive trolls from years back. I agree with this statement 110%.

As or the defense Verse offered; I strongly feel that causing the censor to kick in and edit what you had to say, totally devaluates the argument.

[Shawn]

What the heck did I do to get banned again?You're not banned again. You're still banned Sanis hit the nail squarely on the head with a sledgehammer.
Besides, you can't really ban me from Ezboard and carry that over to vBoard. If you ask me, that's more dictartorship than democracy, and last time I checked, I still lived in AmericaAgain, the ban did not carry over - it's just still in effect.

And it doesn't matter where you live: This is the Internet, not America. Not everyone here lives in America.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

I was trying to say a-hole, but it did not work like I planed.

[Gav Mortis]

My only counter-arguement to this is that I believe in forgiveness when forgiveness is deserving, whether it is or not is to be decided by the admins here. But although I must say, if you do look at this from another, exterior point of view, it does make the admins, and I mean no offense by this, look a little ruthless. Not even a consideration?

It also throws into perspective, who has real say here? The community or the admins? Before I get jumped on, I am not trying to insight some sort of rebellion or upheaval; just voicing my curiosity. It comes down to a difference of personal opinion and I think there is a time to forgive, for all.

[Gav Mortis]

I strongly feel that causing the censor to kick in and edit what you had to say, totally devaluates the argument.

Nonsense. I've voiced my opinions before about that censor before, not only does it look ridiculous, but if you say something that you may feel is a little light but are sensored for it, the obscenely large edit makes you look like a prat and it is embarrassing. The fact that you feel that the censor devalues his arguement proves my point.

[Marcus Telcontar]

If Dreays really wanted to come back, he could simply take another id and RP himself to a point where he proves he's worthwhile of a reversal.


I dont understand why he doesnt see that either. It's not like it hasnt been done before, in fact at GJO it happened a few times. We right now have a few good Jedi Knights who screwed up or were banned, took a new name and proved themselves. If they are really serious about roleplaying, everyone deserves more chances. It's only people like Itala who should be hunted down and stopped full stop

Take my advice Dreyas. Take a new id at GJO and prove what you say. Continued whining will prove your not serious.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

There is simply no clause attached to a permanent ban that obligates somebody to "an eventual forgiveness".

If this were a personal matter, I would agree with you. I'm also a very forgiving person. But its not. Its a matter of policy. Something is laid down as a rule, and it is followed to the letter. We are not going to inject personal conjecture into an area that does not call for it at all. It would undermine the staff's ability to set good rules here and would be counterproductive in the long run.

In addition, Dreyas' rather-aggressive way of "pleading his case" only speaks against his character, which is something that would be paramount if ever his issue was eligible for personal review. He was banned here, and then circumvented the ban not once, but twice, in an attempt to continue to post. Even if it is to plead his case, the task could have been done with much more tact, through email or AIMing the staff, or a third party on the boards, to state grievances.

However, this isn't quite an airtight decision. If you, as the members here, do not agree with this strategy, you can suggest changes to the rules and regulations here regarding permanent bans. Provided enough community support is given to the change of policy idea, it could be implemented. But in all honesty, thats essentially the only way I see Dreyas ever coming back, unless he continues to attempt to circumvent his banning, which may also be taken under consideration against him should such a "second chance" ever come to a decision.

[Live Wire]

Well I dont know if you guys want members to voice their opinions but I agree with the policy. Yes in my nature I am a forgiving person (most of the time) and honestly I dont remember what this guy did to get banned.

But if everyone who was banned is allowed to post and gripe about it and then get their case reviewed then whats to stop every jerk thats ever been banned from doing the same. I think everyone can see the potential hazzard and annoyances that would create.

So 1 - he didn't handle this right and shouldnt be rewarded for such, no matter what his banning was for.

2 - It doesnt matter what host we're on if were on ezboard, vbuliten, ubb, whatever its the same place with the same people and the same rules and the same policys. So if you were banned at swfans you're still banned at swfans.

I also feel it is the admins call and if ever the admins decide to reverse a ban it should be kept quiet to prevent the problems I mentioned. I honestly dont think anyone here wants every Itala like person who's posted here to come and stir up sympathy for themselves in this manner. It just serves to undermine the stability that have been created in the board rules and policies.

Thats just my thoughts on the matter.

[Azure Regalia]

I do agree that the admins (or at least the person that actually chucked out the cash for this board) has the last say. We may all post on it, but we are invited. We aren't owners. The buyer of the board is the owner.

And Marcus had a good idea: prove you are worthy of returning under a different ID.

And the whole bit about this still being SWFans is true. The name and ppl are the same, no matter if the service is different.

Lastly, though, I wanted to voice how I hate how this keeps coming out in PUBLIC, instead of being handled in a private way. I mean, this is a private matter, after all. So, keep it between you (Dreyes) and the admins, and leave the rest of us in peace.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

OK this is how I see the "Other ID". The char Dreyes is not banned, The person posting as him was banned. We shall call him Drew. Drew plays Dreyes and was banned. Drew tells admins he will use a different ID. The Ban that ID because Drew was banned. His name may have changed, but he is still Drew and thus banned. Drew has an idea. He will create a new ID and not tell anyone. He goes on RPing and no one knows what is going on. Later, the Admins find out. They say he was dishonest and ban him yet again.

The summery....he is f-ed both ways. That is the way I see it. Yes, he could post at GJO with with new ID, but can he here?

I agree with the banning rule for the most part. We need to get rid of people who strike out at people very offensivly OOC. That will help keep the peace. That is a great idea. What I don't agree with is this. Not giving the people a chance to change. I will not say Dreyes took you seriously when you told him he would be banned. I am not him and I am not in his head. Sometimes people do not understand till they are punished. He has been banned for 10 MONTHS. Not days, not weeks, but months. That is almost a whole year.

If you say you are a forgiving person and yet say "Well, those are the rules...." Then I will have to call you a lier. I don't wish to pffend, that is just how I feel. Most of you are saying "This is a privite matter. He is beinng offensive with it.." I can see your point, but I disagree. I think it is humbling. You know how much balls it take to be blasted twice by the admins, then ask for forgiveness and a second chance? He is not PM a plea and beg in privite go no one would be none the wiser. He asked were all can see. Many of you have been plain cruel. I have been as well. Does that not show something? You know how humbling it is to have everyone against you and still try while people watch? Think about that for a bit.

[TheHolo.Net]

Originally posted by Gav Mortis


Nonsense. I've voiced my opinions before about that censor before, not only does it look ridiculous, but if you say something that you may feel is a little light but are sensored for it, the obscenely large edit makes you look like a prat and it is embarrassing. The fact that you feel that the censor devalues his arguement proves my point. All the words chosen to be censored are far from a little light, so your point is not proven. The censor is ment to be a discouraging factor in not using unsuitable language, and CotF's idea to make it what it is now, is very effective in that fact, as obvious by your displeasure with it.

I'm sorry Verse, but I disagree with your last statement. I don't see the Admins blasting Dreyas, we are merely standing up for the policies which we enforce here as carried over from the previous software that was in use.

[Gav Mortis]

All the words chosen to be censored are far from a little light

Are they? Try saying "pusy", but with "ss" instead of one. That has a double meaning, not just taboo.

Besides, I didn't say they were a little light, I said "something that you may feel is a little light" - it is effective, but to the extent of being unfair on people who don't intend to cause anyone offense.

[Lady Vader]

Eh, who cares about the censor. There are ways around it, Gav. Don't worry bout it. :)

[ReaperFett]

Sucha big thing made about such few words :)

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Ok, maybe blasting is the wrong word. I do not have so much pride to say I may have been wrong for putting it like that. I meant it mean that you said no and he was willing to keep trying.

You have all right to stand for what you believe in. To say you are wrong woudl be stupid because taht is what I am doing. I just think that 10 months is a real long time and alot can change in that time. I feel anyone (Including Itala and anyone anytime any place.) should get atlest one chance after a ban if they say they have learned there lession. If Dreyes messes up again...then ban him and never think about it again. Even I will have to say you all tried. I just ask for a second chance to people. Rules were made to help out. This I agree on. I just want to say they need to be changed slightly over time.

[TheHolo.Net]

I think it could be considered if there is enough support from the community at large to give him another chance. IMO, that would require more than just a few voices supporting said chance, but widespread support from many.

Considering Dreyas’ attitude just previous to when he was banned, my support is not offered for his case as I would rather not have such elements around, but that is my opinion, just as others may have different ones.

[Live Wire]

I've seen how long it takes for the admins to ban people.

There have been people given numerous chances before banning and I've never seen anyone banned lightly. Banning is a last resort and if someone has comitted enough offenses to deserve a banning from swfans then I think it should stand.

Each board is different and if GJO or any other group lets them post at their board that is one thing. But it shouldnt have any effect here.

Now Im not saying I agree with all bannings but 99.9% I do. And I dont know anyone here who takes such a step lightly. I for one hate to ban people at boards I administrate. It sucks! But if the policy is that after sufficient chances you are banned then thats the rules and breaking the rules because someone has a couple people they are friends with and will support it is not a good enough reason to reverse a banning.

And I think posting under a different ID is wrong because banning is executed against a person not a character. If you're banned then you the person at the keyboard are banned. just because its difficult to make sure said person cant post ever again (ip banning which sometimes blocks other people on the same service) doesnt mean you are free to use loopholes to get your case heared.

Im sorry if I come off as being a jerk or mean or cruel when I say this cause I dont mean to be. I see this as a clear cut issue.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

If you say it could be considered I am happy. I thank you for doing that. I understand your view 110%. We both have different views. Here is a possible idea. Just a shot in the dark. This because few people know what he did and how he acted.

I say give him a temporary unbanning. Like a month or two. If he messes up. Ban him and case closed. You gave him a chance. If he acts ok, then let him stay. If he messes up later, he had his warning and was given a chace that no one else have gotten, and ban him.

Again, I thank you for hearing me out and thinking about it. Even if it is just considering, that is more than many get. For this I thank you.

Edit: Me and LW posted at the same time. I understand your view as well LW. I don't think any less of you. That is your view and I respect that. I just feel a little different that you. That is all. If i can say what I feel, you have the total rigth as well. I don't expect you to think any less of me, and I don't plan to think any less of you.

[TheHolo.Net]

Contrary to an opinion posted in this thread, I do believe that this community’s standards and practices are ruled by the community and will listen to them if there is support from enough.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Ok, now that I have cooled off, I will say what needs to be said by atleast me.

I am sorry if I offened anyone here. I have my views on things and can get real defensive real quick. I know we have rules to protect the right of people. When you break the rules, you get punished. Some people are stickerlys for rules. I for one bend many I make at places I run. I feel each situation should be handled differently. I know that is not real possible here due to the shear numbers of posters.

I know we are invited here. Someone else is paying for this so I, and others, can have fun. I thank them fully for this. You are doing this without asking for repayment. I have been an a-hole (for lack of a better word) about this. For that I am sorry and ask for forgiveness on it.

I will not argue anymore on this subject. If have stated my views and made a request. As a poster, that is all I can do. The board was made for everyone, not just one person. I for one do not want grudes held on this. Do what you think is right. That is all I ask. If you feel he should stay banned without a second chance, I will accept that. You are an admin for a reason. If so, I will be just as happy.

Again I wish to say sorry for those I have offended. I did not mean to come off as a _____, and I am sorry if I did. I did the wrong thing and posted before I gave myself time to breath and look at it from the Admins view.

[Charley]

Well, I think that viewpoint was just misunderstood. Because even if you will listen to the community, its still up to "you".

Its a roundabout way of saying it, but it fits.

And Verse, I would have to disagree with that proposal. The precedent we're looking for is widespread concern in the community about the finality of bannings. The issue of bringing Dreyas back is not at hand. Perhaps much later, down the line, if there is enough support to change the policy.

[Verse Dawnstrider]

Understood then. Sorry about the filter once more. I scored so high on the Military test, but have a vocabulary of mist 4 letter words that can't be said in church.

I understand about Dreyes. I will no longer mention it. can't blame a guy for trying.