The real all time B.O. list?

[Marcus Telcontar]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2002151621,00.html



This has been done, not by dollars, but by bums on seats. So, I would suggest it is valid.

Have a look, it makes good reading

[JMK]

I can live with that kind of list. SW films still do exceedingly well. Don't modern movies have an advantage in this type of rating system as well as people now have more $$$ to spend, and there are more movie theaters to spend that money in? Either way, I agree that ticket sales is the best way to judge a movie's popularity.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Considering how many tickets GWTW sold and how old a lot of thsoe top mivies are, I'm not so sure if modern movies have any advantage. Consider however that a movie 30 odd years ago would play out for years, not weeks as there was no home video market, nor DVD..... I would suggest that DVD especially is goign to cut signifigantly into repeat viewings.

I think it also highlights that a movie that does absurdly well (Titanic, GWTW, Star Wars) can never be predicted and will do so no matter what the conditions presented.

Even so given, I have to ask... how the hell did GWTW sell so many tickets?!?!

[Admiral Lebron]

It was a romance right? So like.. so many women went to see and brought there parents.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well that wasn't entirely the reason, I think Jedieb has brought it up a few times that movies were the only game in town (except radio) that is why television really hurt the motion picture industry until recently. So really GWTW was a specatacle and that is why it did so wel, which is surprising since it is based on a really bad book. One thing that strikes me as odd is Jurassic Park has sold more tickets than HP and TPM, even though both made more money, is that just inflation?

[CMJ]

We've discussed this one before...many times. ;)

There are so many factors that go into a list like this. For one...if you go by inflation(or tickets sold on 1st run) "Titanic" is the all-time king. GWTW excelled(as did SW:ANH) with numerous re-issues.

On the other hand population and theatre counts have increased greatly...so "Titanic" has that as an advantage. Of course when GWTW came out their weren't as many media outlets(the cinema was basically it) and films could play FOREVER. In fact you could even argue over the last 25 years since ANH was released has seen an exponential increase of other "stuff" do do other than going to the theatre.

So in closing...it's practically impossible to say what film is the true "king". ;)

[Jedieb]

I would say that Titanic outperformed ANH overseas, but not domestically. I've run the numbers before and ANH's first run beats out Titanic's. As for GWTW, it simply dominated in a fashion that I don't think we'll ever see again. The entertainment landscape is just too different. Here's something to consider when you talk about the number of tickets a movie has sold:

Average Weekly Attendance in 1939
85,000,000
Average Weekly Attendance in 1980
19,600,000

Pretty amazing huh? Here's another one to consider:

Number of major studio releases in 1979:
105
Number of major studio releases in 1939:
388!!!!

The eras are just too different to compare fairly. I also happen to think we're coming upon another break. We may have just experienced it if you think about it. The birth of the VHS/Cable era may have signaled another era of how movies generate money and how studios profit from them. Movies fit into the entertainment landscape differently today than they did just a few decades ago. I think the only real test is the test of time. We're still talking about GWTW 60 years after its release so obviously it's a film to be reckoned with. We know what the OT SE's did 2 decades after the originals so they've passed the test as well. Some films pass the test, others fade away and their initial success is but a footnote.

[sirdizzy]

its not surpising technology has kind of taken away from movies with persomal home theatres and dvds and vhs videos not to mention tvs themselves


movies were a pasttime how many times have ye heard ahhhhh i'll wait for it to come out on video and ya just want to slap the person (esspecially if there talkign about the next star wars film)

[CMJ]

You sure Jedieb? I remember back in '98 reading that "Titanic" passed both GWTW and ANH on ticket sales on the 1st run. By that I mean ALL of their first runs. It was in Variety I think. They had concluded that GWTW was like at 550M and ANH was in the 520's.

[Darth23]

"To settle the debate once and for all The Sun unearthed the figures and used complicated calculations to turn them into total audiences.

It was a difficult process, which is why no one has had the guts to do it before."

What a load of HYPE.


They don't even try to remotely explain what calculations they use. They are also trying to contend that no one has ever published a list adjusted for inflation before. (as if)

Oh well, it IS The Sun. :p

AND <a href=http://www.the-movie-times.com/thrsdir/Top10everad.html>THe Movie Times.com (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted/>) both have (somewhat different) adjusted lists, but the real issue that cut and dry.

The Sun can't count number of tickets sold becausethat data isn't really tracked (in the US) , they have to ESTIMATE that data. My understanding is that in many European countries they actually count ticket sales and that info it readily available.

[ReaperFett]

Good to see Armageddon is up there :)

[sirdizzy]

there is no real way to be totally sure but i like the comment


"i never had to wait in a line 2 blocks long to see titanic"

[CMJ]

LOL..then again I don't think I've personally ever had to wait in a line that long to see ANY movie. The days of lines snaking around for half a mile are over with all these 30 plexes these days.

I do vaguely remember waiting for a long time to see "E.T" and ROTJ when I was a kid, but thats about it. Also in '89 the "Batman' thing was pretty intense. I was at the very first show of "Jurassic Park" in my hometown and the line once I came out was LONG but personally I didn't have to wait in one. After that is kinda when all the mega plexes started being built...so JP is prolly the last big ass line I'll see.

[Jedi Master Carr]

There was a long line to get in the theater to see LOTR when I went to see it, I already had my ticket so I didn't have to wait for that thank god. Have no clue what to expect for AOTC, it could be a long line to get tickets, but I will get them in advance regardless of what time I go to see it.

[sirdizzy]

the last line that was block length for me was fro a little movie called the phantom menace

[Jedieb]

Standing in line for a movie can be a bit misleading. Movies that get to number one get there because they have SUSTAINED growth. One of the reasons there were such long lines for ANH was that it opened in only a few theaters. Lucas had lines going down the block for American Grafetti also. What truly made ANH a box office phenomenon is that it was still going strong close to a year after its release. It's re-release in 1978 ranked 7th for the year. That's something that not even GWTW was able to achieve.

CMJ, I've run the numbers before and this is what I was able to get;

First Releases
Year Film Gross Adj. for Inflation (2001)
1977 ANH $210,439,000* $614,060,000
1980 ESB $198,000,000* $425,800,000
1983 ROTJ $249,608,768 $443,000,000
1999 TPM $431,088,297 $458,420,000

Titanic $600,000,000 $663,200,000

You could argue that Titanic's first run beat ANH, but there are a couple of problems. First, 1978. The fact is, some theaters kept playing ANH well into 78. Then the summer brought out the influx of kids and FOX increased the number of theaters. Would they have been able to keep Titanic in theaters for a second year and have it rank in the top ten in 99? I seriously doubt it.

Second, B.O. figures were UNDER reported in the 1970's. The early ANH figures were reported as rentals, not B.O. grosses. There was a lot of money that ANH brought in that was probably never reported. A lot of estimating went into the figures we see today. Because of the length of ANH's run and it's strong showing in 78 I'd say it has the edge over Titanic in the U.S. Plus, does anyone think a 20th Anniversary re-release of Titanic would perform as well as the ANH:SE? I think we'd get ET type numbers, not SW numbers. Holy crap, I'm starting to sound like Jon!>_<

[CMJ]

I'm not trying to argue with ya Jedieb...just remembering what Variety reported is all. :) Don't kill the messenger. ;)

I would say there are some amazing BO accomplishments in any era...and GWTW, ANH, and the Big Boat are all up there(some others have to be included as well of course).

I don't think "Titanic" would do BIG buisness either...of course in 2012 for it's 15th anniversay..and the 100th anniversary of the ship going down...hmmm that MIGHT be big BO potential, but who can say?

[Jedieb]

If I wanted to kill the messenger I'd give him this..:shootin

I wasn't trying to argue either, I just wanted to show you what I came up with. Variety probably used just the 77 numbers which would put the boat ahead. In all fairness, Titanic did things overseas which ANH never did. Titanic's WW B.O. was just staggering. It'll be awhile before we see something like that again.

[CMJ]

LMAO...those guns cracked me up!

[JMK]

I would say that a re-release of Titanic on DVD for the 100th/15th anniversary with some super-special features would fare better than a re-release at the B.O.